Calif Bill wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly $597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go down
under the leading proposals in Congress


Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers
program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for dealers,
not the site for the general public.
Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other opinion.
No other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over the
place.

Steve
Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.

People are dieing. But not from a lack of medical care. We have a higher
mortality rate than most of Europe, because we drive more, killing more,
drug wars, killing more, lots of 3rd world immigrants with bad health to
start with.


So.....what makes you think that if Obama's plan comes forth that people
will be dying from lack of medical care? In reverse Harryism, it's just
speculation.

"NotNow" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"NotNow" wrote in message
...
First, the bull**** about killing off the elderly.

On former Sen. Fred Thompson’s radio show, former lieutenant governor
of
New York Betsy McCaughey said that the House’s proposed health care
bill
contained a provision that would institute mandatory counseling
sessions
telling seniors how "to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut
your life short." House Minority Leader John Boehner made a slightly
more measured statement, warning that the same provision "may start us
down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if
enacted into law."

In truth, that section of the bill would require Medicare to pay for
voluntary counseling sessions helping seniors to plan for end-of-life
medical care, including designating a health care proxy, choosing a
hospice and making decisions about life-sustaining treatment. It would
not require doctors to counsel that their patients refuse medical
intervention.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That
section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning
counseling sessions with a health care practitioner. Here’s part of
the
section in question.

H.R. 3200, page 425: Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term
‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the
individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding
advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual
involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning,
including key questions and considerations, important steps, and
suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives,
including
living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and
responsibilities
of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and
State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with
advance care planning … .

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life
services and supports available, including palliative care and
hospice,
and benefits for such services and supports that are available under
this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life
sustaining treatment or similar orders

Now on to the bull**** about the "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95%.....

The latest ad from the group Conservatives for Patients’ Rights claims
that "new rules could hike your health insurance premiums 95 percent."
That’s misleading.

?The claim in the ad refers to only 5 percent of Americans who have
health insurance – those who buy it on their own.

?The claim comes from an analysis by a group that advocates for
insurance carriers that sell policies in the individual market, among
other areas.

?That analysis also doesn’t take into consideration several elements
of
leading congressional legislation that other experts say will keep
premium costs down – and in fact, lower premiums for some. Other
independent studies show premium costs decreasing on average for
Americans that currently have health coverage.

?It’s not true that any of the health care overhaul measures that have
been approved by committees in Congress would add "a trillion to the
federal deficit," as the ad says. The Senate bill would add roughly
$597
billion over 10 years, and the House bill that was approved by the
Ways
and Means Committee in mid-July would add a much smaller $239 billion,
according to the Congressional Budget Office.
Analysis
We’ve written about two previous misleading ads from the group
Conservatives for Patients’ Rights, whose TV spots argue against
health
care overhaul efforts that are moving through Congress. This ad puts
forth a new claim, saying that "new rules could hike your health
insurance premiums 95 percent." That’s a startling statement. But it’s
contradicted by other experts that find premiums would actually go
down
under the leading proposals in Congress


Now, if you'd like we can go on and on about these lies propagated by
the right. Like the right saying that Obama et al wants a system "like
Canada's".

The lies get even more sinister, like Glen Beck stating on the air
that
the government will get complete access to your computer and all of
your files when you log on to Cars.gov for the Cash for Clunkers
program.

The truth? Beck quoted from a security message on the site for
dealers,
not the site for the general public.
Well, that does it. You said it. It HAS to be true. No other
opinion. No other way. Thanks for straightening that out for us.

Yer right. There will be no death panels, just people dying all over
the place.

Steve
Pssst. *I* didn't "say it". I'm giving you the facts. People dying all
over the place? That's happening now. What would an "opinion" do? What
I've posted is FACT.

People are dieing. But not from a lack of medical care. We have a
higher mortality rate than most of Europe, because we drive more, killing
more, drug wars, killing more, lots of 3rd world immigrants with bad
health to start with.
So.....what makes you think that if Obama's plan comes forth that people
will be dying from lack of medical care? In reverse Harryism, it's just
speculation.

The people may well be dieing from starvation and riots. When the Fed's
take over 1/6 of the economy and the same Fed's who could not even run a
whore house in Nevada profitably, how do you think we are going to afford
this Free Health Care?

On Aug 13, 4:44*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:


The people may well be dieing from starvation and riots. *When the Fed's
take over 1/6 of the economy and the same Fed's who could not even run a
whore house in Nevada profitably, how do you think we are going to afford
this Free Health Care?-

now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Aug 13, 4:44 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:


The people may well be dieing from starvation and riots. When the Fed's
take over 1/6 of the economy and the same Fed's who could not even run a
whore house in Nevada profitably, how do you think we are going to afford
this Free Health Care?-

now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

On Aug 13, 5:24*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message


now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. *They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. *And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. *How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!

and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today

you need to start reading the news.

In article 790f68d9-d57f-408e-8102-03275f5fe814
@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com, says...

On Aug 13, 5:24*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message


now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. *They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. *And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. *How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!

and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today

you need to start reading the news.

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the "do
nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy. If she had
not broken her campaign promise and let gas go to $4.00 a gallon, and
helped the Bush Admin reign in the Fannie Freddie syndicate, we would
not have fallen off of the edge. You can blame the three highest
recipients of fannie and freddie lobby money over a ten year period.
Chris Dodd, Barak Obama, and John Kerry.. And remember, Obama was only
there for the last two years.. How much do you think he got to be in the
number two spot against Dodd, and Kerry and a ten year run?

--
Wafa free since 2009

JustWait wrote:

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the "do
nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.

Moron.

On Aug 13, 9:53*pm, JustWait wrote:
In article 790f68d9-d57f-408e-8102-03275f5fe814
@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com, says...





On Aug 13, 5:24*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. *They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. *And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. *How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!

and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today

you need to start reading the news.

Pelosi doing over 200 investigations and calling her congress the "do
nothing congress" is what caused the collapse of the economy.

newsflash, sport. pelosi had zip to do with the collapse of the
economy. your 'deregulate the economy' buddies ballooned CDO's to 62
TRILLION dollars. that's when your friend bush was president and your
pals the GOP ran congress. i realize that to you 'i love the rich'
folks, the rich can do no wrong, but reality is a different story

If she had
not broken her campaign promise and let gas go to $4.00 a gallon

ROFLMAO!! $4.00 gas broke the economy?? BWAHAHAHA!! god you'll fall
for any story won't you?

, and
helped the Bush Admin reign in the Fannie Freddie syndicate, we would
not have fallen off of the edge. You can blame the three highest
recipients of fannie and freddie lobby money over a ten year period.
Chris Dodd, Barak Obama, and John Kerry.

and over that 10 year period, who was in control of congress? The GOP.
who wrote the bill deregulating the securities industry? phil gramm, a
GOP legend, along with his wife a sr. VP at enron...the GOP hijacked
the economy, fed it to their rich friends and presented the bill to
the middle class THEN told you a story about what happened

and you fell for it!!


.. And remember, Obama was only
there for the last two years.. How much do you think he got to be in the
number two spot against Dodd, and Kerry and a ten year run?


gee. what happened to cheney, mccain, huckabee and all your buddies?
seems the american people finally stopped believing the lies you still
believe

wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 5:24 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message


now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!

and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd say hi!

In fact Barney Frank just tried to get the banks to "readjust" interest
rates by mortgage holders and it went absolutely nowhere. Congress needs
to stop meddling in the banking industry.

How many people walked away from their homes when they had to put a 20%
down payment on a house?

you need to start reading the news.

You need to get a brain.

On Aug 13, 10:39*pm, BAR wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Aug 13, 5:24 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

now let me get this straight. he's complaining about govt healthcare
and extolling the virtures of the free market...

the market that brought you

-bear stearns
-GM
-wachovia
-bank of america

all of these, he thinks, bear witness to the efficiency of the market
and its ability to protect middle class americans.

i guess he doesn't get much news in his section of the woods.

BofA is a Federal caused problem. *They are the ones who pressured BofA to
buy a crap brokerage house. *And Bear Stearns, GM etc are all long time
deathbed candidates. *How about Google, Oracle, and a host of other
successful corporations.

ROFLMAO!! hey genius that's EXACTLY my point. you think the free
market is great when IT JUST CAUSED THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY!!

and those other companies? guess you don't know they couldn't stop the
market from going from 14000 last year to 9000 today

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd say hi!

In fact Barney Frank just tried to get the banks to "readjust" interest
rates by mortgage holders and it went absolutely nowhere. Congress needs
to stop meddling in the banking industry.

except, of course, it was phil gramm and his wife, a sr. VP at enron,
who wrote the bill deregulating securities. this allowed CDO's to go
from $920B in 1997 to $62 TRILLION in 2007.

and the GOP knew that when the bill came due, the middle class would
pay for it to ensure the rich didn't lose a dollar.