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More ethanol problems
Wife and I went to Cedar Key for our anniversary and took the Tolman
to explore some of the islands. Got a nice but very expensive suite ($168/night, yes, I am cheap) and had an ok time, Cedar Key is a good place but almost hostile to boaters. There is no place for a sailboat to dock as we found on several previous trips and the city marina has no fuel dock. The only place on the island to buy fuel is a Chevron gas station so I filled the Tolman's tank thinking I'd use as much asd I could and siphon the rest into my truck to burn it quickly. Launched her and were on the way out when sputter, sputter, sputter so I shut her down, She ran fine in neutral but when I put her in gear, she died. Finally she died even in neutral. CRAP. Cranked up the pull start 9.9 kicker but that would only run just above idle, WTF. Finally noticed the kicker fuel line had a crack and it was sucking air and spraying fuel into the water. A quick repair with Swiss Army knife and it got us back to the marina. The Dockmaster saw us come in and came over to see what was the problem. He immediately asked where we had bought fuel and he just shook his head telling me that that gas station had underground tanks that got water in the fuel. I asked where to buy fuel and he said "somewhere else on the mainland, maybe Georgia". Holy SH*&T. We finally came home stopping at Manatee Springs State Park, very nice and a great place to swim on a hot day. Stopped at a private marina on the mainland where they told me to put lots of Stabil in the fuel, replace the water separator, drain the carbs and try to buy fuel without ethanol. They told me that Cedar Key could not get ethanol free fuel, even at the marina if they ever put in a fuel dock. All in all, Cedar Key is a nice place but their ambivalence to boaters is legendary. They have a beautiful new municipal dock but it is intended only for fishing with no way for boats to tie up. |
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Frogwatch wrote:
Wife and I went to Cedar Key for our anniversary and took the Tolman to explore some of the islands. Got a nice but very expensive suite ($168/night, yes, I am cheap) and had an ok time, Cedar Key is a good place but almost hostile to boaters. There is no place for a sailboat to dock as we found on several previous trips and the city marina has no fuel dock. The only place on the island to buy fuel is a Chevron gas station so I filled the Tolman's tank thinking I'd use as much asd I could and siphon the rest into my truck to burn it quickly. Launched her and were on the way out when sputter, sputter, sputter so I shut her down, She ran fine in neutral but when I put her in gear, she died. Finally she died even in neutral. CRAP. Cranked up the pull start 9.9 kicker but that would only run just above idle, WTF. Finally noticed the kicker fuel line had a crack and it was sucking air and spraying fuel into the water. A quick repair with Swiss Army knife and it got us back to the marina. The Dockmaster saw us come in and came over to see what was the problem. He immediately asked where we had bought fuel and he just shook his head telling me that that gas station had underground tanks that got water in the fuel. I asked where to buy fuel and he said "somewhere else on the mainland, maybe Georgia". Holy SH*&T. We finally came home stopping at Manatee Springs State Park, very nice and a great place to swim on a hot day. Stopped at a private marina on the mainland where they told me to put lots of Stabil in the fuel, replace the water separator, drain the carbs and try to buy fuel without ethanol. They told me that Cedar Key could not get ethanol free fuel, even at the marina if they ever put in a fuel dock. All in all, Cedar Key is a nice place but their ambivalence to boaters is legendary. They have a beautiful new municipal dock but it is intended only for fishing with no way for boats to tie up. Cedar Key is for the birds. I'd never go back there again. |
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On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:48:50 -0400, Gene
wrote: This is the recommended replacement: http://go2marine.wordpress.com/2009/...-at-go2marine/ No offense Gene, but I call bs - on the part of the manufacturer. According to the MSDS PRI-G's primary ingredient is Shellsol which is a Stoddard solvent - basically white spirit (not soluble in water) also called dry cleaning fluid along with amines - basically organic ammonia with organic dispersants - which could be anything. http://www.berkeywater.com/Other_Pro...ces/MSDS-G.pdf Shellsol is also considered an environmental hazard and hazardous material. http://www.enerquip.com.au/brochures...SOL%20A100.pdf I'm not a chemist by any stretch of the imagination, but what I think 'cha got here is your basic marketing "switcherooni". Organic ammonia plus organic dispersants = Wait for it, wait for it... ammonia in alcohol. Might as well pour a bottle of that solvent you use in your machine shop, add a little ammonia and some wood alcohol into the tank. All of which brings me around to the simple fact that if you use E-10 fuel, you're screwed no matter which product you use. With respect to StarTron (the Starbrite product that everybody jumps up and down about) - you can't find an MSDS on it online. Wonder why? Petroleum products and enzymes - well, how about that. Truth is nothing is going to stabilize E-10 fuels and most of the products being promoted as "cures" for E-10 are actually adding to environmental issues and engine problems instead of helping. Use regular old Sta-bil - at least it's not going to hurt anything and it will make you feel better. |
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On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:20:03 -0400, Gene
wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:55:43 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:48:50 -0400, Gene wrote: This is the recommended replacement: http://go2marine.wordpress.com/2009/...-at-go2marine/ No offense Gene, but I call bs - on the part of the manufacturer. Use regular old Sta-bil - at least it's not going to hurt anything and it will make you feel better. Oh, contraire..... I saw the goop that came out of those carbs and the fuel wasn't *that* old and I had treated it with regular Sta-bil myself. Startron is: .5% Proprietary Organic Compounds 95% Solvent Naptha (Petroleum), Heavy Aliphatic I'm not sure we have a real answer for this....... yet! Well, it could be, not that it is you understand, crap from the tank. I had mine flushed last Fall in the Ranger (after five years from the last time I did it) and the crap in the fuel must be amazing because there was easily a good 3/4 pound of - well, no other word for it, goop sitting on the bottom of the tank. And when I had the engine winterized, the fuel filter was as heavy as an oil filter when you remove it. By the way, that's what Starbrite SAYS is in StarTron - nobody actually knows for sure. And I'll continue to use Sta-Bil thank you very much. :) |
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On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:55:43 -0400, Gene
wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:20:03 -0400, Gene wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:55:43 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:48:50 -0400, Gene wrote: This is the recommended replacement: http://go2marine.wordpress.com/2009/...-at-go2marine/ No offense Gene, but I call bs - on the part of the manufacturer. Use regular old Sta-bil - at least it's not going to hurt anything and it will make you feel better. Oh, contraire..... I saw the goop that came out of those carbs and the fuel wasn't *that* old and I had treated it with regular Sta-bil myself. Startron is: .5% Proprietary Organic Compounds 95% Solvent Naptha (Petroleum), Heavy Aliphatic I'm not sure we have a real answer for this....... yet! Oh, yeah.... Sta-bil is 95% Naptha, too..... I hope the "other stuff" is the answer/active ingredient in these respective [admittedly] snake oils..... On a related subject, I wonder if this whole "phase separation" thing is actually a problem or if it's just more BS. |
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On Aug 2, 2:59*pm, Yogi of Woodstock wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:20:03 -0400, Gene wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:55:43 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:48:50 -0400, Gene wrote: This is the recommended replacement: http://go2marine.wordpress.com/2009/...tment-additive.... No offense Gene, but I call bs - on the part of the manufacturer. Use regular old Sta-bil - at least it's not going to hurt anything and it will make you feel better. Oh, contraire..... I saw the goop that came out of those carbs and the fuel wasn't *that* old and I had treated it with regular Sta-bil myself. Startron is: .5% Proprietary Organic Compounds 95% Solvent Naptha (Petroleum), Heavy Aliphatic I'm not sure we have a real answer for this....... yet! Well, it could be, not that it is you understand, crap from the tank. I had mine flushed last Fall in the Ranger (after five years from the last time I did it) and the crap in the fuel must be amazing because there was easily a good 3/4 pound of - well, no other word for it, goop sitting on the bottom of the tank. *And when I had the engine winterized, the fuel filter was as heavy as an oil filter when you remove it. By the way, that's what Starbrite SAYS is in StarTron - nobody actually knows for sure. And I'll continue to use Sta-Bil thank you very much. *:) Active agent: WD-40? |
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On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:55:43 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:48:50 -0400, Gene wrote: This is the recommended replacement: http://go2marine.wordpress.com/2009/...-at-go2marine/ No offense Gene, but I call bs - on the part of the manufacturer. According to the MSDS PRI-G's primary ingredient is Shellsol which is a Stoddard solvent - basically white spirit (not soluble in water) also called dry cleaning fluid along with amines - basically organic ammonia with organic dispersants - which could be anything. http://www.berkeywater.com/Other_Pro...ces/MSDS-G.pdf Shellsol is also considered an environmental hazard and hazardous material. http://www.enerquip.com.au/brochures...SOL%20A100.pdf I'm not a chemist by any stretch of the imagination, but what I think 'cha got here is your basic marketing "switcherooni". Organic ammonia plus organic dispersants = Wait for it, wait for it... ammonia in alcohol. Might as well pour a bottle of that solvent you use in your machine shop, add a little ammonia and some wood alcohol into the tank. All of which brings me around to the simple fact that if you use E-10 fuel, you're screwed no matter which product you use. With respect to StarTron (the Starbrite product that everybody jumps up and down about) - you can't find an MSDS on it online. Wonder why? Petroleum products and enzymes - well, how about that. Truth is nothing is going to stabilize E-10 fuels and most of the products being promoted as "cures" for E-10 are actually adding to environmental issues and engine problems instead of helping. Use regular old Sta-bil - at least it's not going to hurt anything and it will make you feel better. Thanks. -- John H |
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On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:32:33 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote: try to buy fuel without ethanol. Here in SWFL I can get non-ethanol gas delivered to the house by one of the local fuel dealers, 50 gallon minimum. |
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On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:25:59 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:32:33 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch wrote: try to buy fuel without ethanol. Here in SWFL I can get non-ethanol gas delivered to the house by one of the local fuel dealers, 50 gallon minimum. I've heard that you can get it up here too, but so far, no distributor wil admit to selling it. |
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On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:07:10 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote: Here in SWFL I can get non-ethanol gas delivered to the house by one of the local fuel dealers, 50 gallon minimum. I've heard that you can get it up here too, but so far, no distributor wil admit to selling it. It's perfectly legal for off road (marine) usage, at least it is here. |
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On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:36:01 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:07:10 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: Here in SWFL I can get non-ethanol gas delivered to the house by one of the local fuel dealers, 50 gallon minimum. I've heard that you can get it up here too, but so far, no distributor wil admit to selling it. It's perfectly legal for off road (marine) usage, at least it is here. Back when I had the F-250, I bought into a farmer's fuel co-op - I qualified because "technically" we own a "farm" - even though the fields are leased to a local farmer. That same distributor is supposed to sell ethanol free gas, but he says no - he can't get it, so he can't sell it. Why, I don't know. |
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On Aug 2, 8:53*pm, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:36:01 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:07:10 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: Here in SWFL I can get non-ethanol gas delivered to the house by one of the local fuel dealers, 50 gallon minimum. I've heard that you can get it up here too, but so far, no distributor wil admit to selling it. It's perfectly legal for off road (marine) usage, at least it is here. Back when I had the F-250, I bought into a farmer's fuel co-op - I qualified because "technically" we own a "farm" - even though the fields are leased to a local farmer. That same distributor is supposed to sell ethanol free gas, but he says no - he can't get it, so he can't sell it. Why, I don't know. I am somewhat skeptical of this whole issue because it seems to be the answer to all unknown motor problems. You'd think that if this was a serious problem for boats that it might be a problem for cars as well. Yet, nobody seems to have reported bad gas for their cars from this station. Today, I finally decided that boat motor mechanics are simply incompetent and I had better figure it out for myself. First, I noticed that the mechanics who had supposedly rebuilt my carbs and drained all the bad fuel from my boat had NOT replaced the water seperator, WTF? I took it off and could not find much sign of water in it but i may not have known how to look. Next, I took off the fuel filter on the engine and found it to have a lot of red sediment in it, too fine to be rust but some was on the output side too, hmmmmmmm. The mechanics did not bother to do this? WTF? Decided to drain the carb float bowls, no sign of water there either. Conclusions will have to wait till tomorrow. |
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On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 18:08:33 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote: I am somewhat skeptical of this whole issue because it seems to be the answer to all unknown motor problems. You'd think that if this was a serious problem for boats that it might be a problem for cars as well. Yet, nobody seems to have reported bad gas for their cars from this station. The problem is storage - you go through more gas by volume over time with a car than you do with a boat. I run through about 75 gallons a month over the summer with the Ranger for example, but I use at least double that in my truck. You also add it in smaller volume in cars/trucks than you do with a boat. |
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On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 18:08:33 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote: Decided to drain the carb float bowls, no sign of water there either. Conclusions will have to wait till tomorrow. The last time I had fuel problems with my Honda 4 stroke I sprayed a lot of GumOut (carb cleaner) into the float bowl drain and let it sit over night. It's been running fine ever since. |
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"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:36:01 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:07:10 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: Here in SWFL I can get non-ethanol gas delivered to the house by one of the local fuel dealers, 50 gallon minimum. I've heard that you can get it up here too, but so far, no distributor wil admit to selling it. It's perfectly legal for off road (marine) usage, at least it is here. Back when I had the F-250, I bought into a farmer's fuel co-op - I qualified because "technically" we own a "farm" - even though the fields are leased to a local farmer. That same distributor is supposed to sell ethanol free gas, but he says no - he can't get it, so he can't sell it. Why, I don't know. All they sell up here is regular, medium & high test gas. No ethenol for us. (so far) |
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Don White wrote:
"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:36:01 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:07:10 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: Here in SWFL I can get non-ethanol gas delivered to the house by one of the local fuel dealers, 50 gallon minimum. I've heard that you can get it up here too, but so far, no distributor wil admit to selling it. It's perfectly legal for off road (marine) usage, at least it is here. Back when I had the F-250, I bought into a farmer's fuel co-op - I qualified because "technically" we own a "farm" - even though the fields are leased to a local farmer. That same distributor is supposed to sell ethanol free gas, but he says no - he can't get it, so he can't sell it. Why, I don't know. All they sell up here is regular, medium & high test gas. No ethenol for us. (so far) A local oil dealer is advertising 100% pure unadulterated gasoline in all grades. I'll try a tankful and let you guys know the results. |
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Gene wrote:
On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:07:10 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:25:59 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:32:33 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch wrote: try to buy fuel without ethanol. Here in SWFL I can get non-ethanol gas delivered to the house by one of the local fuel dealers, 50 gallon minimum. I've heard that you can get it up here too, but so far, no distributor wil admit to selling it. Nobody, here, will admit to *what* they are selling.... and the lawmakers like it that way because they fear people will shy away from ethanol if they know it is there. I predict that the first airplane that goes down on somebody's house because the wasn't any disclosure that the mogas, was in reality E85, is going to change a lot of things. I was in Chattanooga for the weekend, an independent type gas station was advertising non-ethenol gasoline. |
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On Aug 3, 9:48*am, NotNow wrote:
Gene wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:07:10 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:25:59 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:32:33 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch wrote: try to buy fuel without ethanol. Here in SWFL I can get non-ethanol gas delivered to the house by one of the local fuel dealers, 50 gallon minimum. I've heard that you can get it up here too, but so far, no distributor wil admit to selling it. Nobody, here, will admit to *what* they are selling.... and the lawmakers like it that way because they fear people will shy away from ethanol if they know it is there. I predict that the first airplane that goes down on somebody's house because the wasn't any disclosure that the mogas, was in reality E85, is going to change a lot of things. I was in Chattanooga for the weekend, an independent type gas station was advertising non-ethenol gasoline. I am guessing (speculating?) that the amount of fuel that has been dumped due to being contaminated with water from having ethanol exceeds the amount of fuel saved by using ethanol. |
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I really don't understand the deal with E10. Postulate, postulate. I
have no problems with leaving E10 in the boat tank over the winter, no Stabil. Engine runs fine next year. Same with my generator and log splitter. Perhaps it is SOME formulations or additive packages that promote phase separation more/less than others. I use 76 almost exclusively (station is handy). I fill the boat this year with multiple 5 gal trips to the station; didn't use dock fuel. Unless I'm going to the San Juans, I usually fill the boat on the trailer at a land station, coming and going. JR Frogwatch wrote: Wife and I went to Cedar Key for our anniversary and took the Tolman to explore some of the islands. -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth |
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JR North wrote:
I really don't understand the deal with E10. Postulate, postulate. I have no problems with leaving E10 in the boat tank over the winter, no Stabil. Engine runs fine next year. Same with my generator and log splitter. Perhaps it is SOME formulations or additive packages that promote phase separation more/less than others. I use 76 almost exclusively (station is handy). I fill the boat this year with multiple 5 gal trips to the station; didn't use dock fuel. Unless I'm going to the San Juans, I usually fill the boat on the trailer at a land station, coming and going. JR Frogwatch wrote: Wife and I went to Cedar Key for our anniversary and took the Tolman to explore some of the islands. -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth Precisely. I had 60 gallons of "ethanoled" gasoline in Yo Ho over the winter along with Sta-Bil. Engine started right up this season, first try and no problems. The fuel filters get changed at the end of each season. |
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On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:54:09 -0700, JR North
wrote: Perhaps it is SOME formulations or additive packages that promote phase separation more/less than others. I understand from talking to some friends in the Upper Mid-West that it's a problem there. You do make an interesting point though. |
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On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:54:09 -0700, JR North
wrote: I really don't understand the deal with E10. Postulate, postulate. I have no problems with leaving E10 in the boat tank over the winter, no Stabil. Engine runs fine next year. Same with my generator and log splitter. Perhaps it is SOME formulations or additive packages that promote phase separation more/less than others. I use 76 almost exclusively (station is handy). I fill the boat this year with multiple 5 gal trips to the station; didn't use dock fuel. Unless I'm going to the San Juans, I usually fill the boat on the trailer at a land station, coming and going. JR If you are going to the San Juan Islands that means you are in a cool climate. I think that makes a difference. Here in SWFL things seem to gum up much more quickly and that has accelerated a lot as E10 has proliferated. I've had problems with two different outboards, and a generator, all in the last 18 months or so. Prior to that, the last gummed up carb that I had to deal with was in 1968. |
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On Aug 3, 8:49*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:54:09 -0700, JR North wrote: I really don't understand the deal with E10. Postulate, postulate. I have no problems with leaving E10 in the boat tank over the winter, no Stabil. Engine runs fine next year. Same with my generator and log splitter. Perhaps it is SOME formulations or additive packages that promote phase separation more/less than others. I use 76 almost exclusively (station is handy). I fill the boat this year with multiple 5 gal trips to the station; didn't use dock fuel. Unless I'm going to the San Juans, I usually fill the boat on the trailer at a land station, coming and going. JR If you are going to the San Juan Islands that means you are in a cool climate. * I think that makes a difference. * Here in SWFL things seem to gum up much more quickly and that has accelerated a lot as E10 has proliferated. * I've had problems with two different outboards, and a generator, all in the last 18 months or so. * Prior to that, the last gummed up carb that I had to deal with was in 1968. I am also skeptical of the problems with E10 but replacing the filters and de-gumming the carbs does seem to have worked but I admit I may have solved the problem without really knowing what it was. OTOH, humidity here in Tallahassee is pretty extreme. |
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Don White wrote:
"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message ... On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:36:01 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:07:10 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: Here in SWFL I can get non-ethanol gas delivered to the house by one of the local fuel dealers, 50 gallon minimum. I've heard that you can get it up here too, but so far, no distributor wil admit to selling it. It's perfectly legal for off road (marine) usage, at least it is here. Back when I had the F-250, I bought into a farmer's fuel co-op - I qualified because "technically" we own a "farm" - even though the fields are leased to a local farmer. That same distributor is supposed to sell ethanol free gas, but he says no - he can't get it, so he can't sell it. Why, I don't know. All they sell up here is regular, medium & high test gas. No ethenol for us. (so far) #1 What the hell is "high test"? #2 How do you know you aren't getting E10? It will still say "Regular", dummy. |
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On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:21:20 -0400, Gene
wrote: Anybody remember the Sunoco pumps where you could dial up your choice of octanes? Yes, but I don't remember seeing octane numbers, just 200, 210,..., 260, etc. After a while they came out with 190 so they could post a lower price on the street sign, but they really didn't want anyone to actually buy it. |
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"Gene" wrote in message ... On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:29:34 -0400, D wrote: #1 What the hell is "high test"? For the kids in the group..... years ago, it is what they called "Premium" fuel. Anybody remember the Sunoco pumps where you could dial up your choice of octanes? (And before anybody gets too technical on me.... yes, they went beyond the octane classifications into the research numbers.... all the way to 102, if I remember correctly..... -- Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171 "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Unknown Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net...at/my_boat.htm I can remember gas stations in Toronto (late 60s) where you could dialup what ratio of 2 stroke oil you wanted in your gas. Don't believe we had any here. |
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On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:21:20 -0400, Gene
wrote: On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:29:34 -0400, D wrote: #1 What the hell is "high test"? For the kids in the group..... years ago, it is what they called "Premium" fuel. Anybody remember the Sunoco pumps where you could dial up your choice of octanes? (And before anybody gets too technical on me.... yes, they went beyond the octane classifications into the research numbers.... all the way to 102, if I remember correctly..... I remember them. Also remember the Purple Martin stations around here that sold about 6 grades on their pumps. The high price one was Super Purple Martin Special Ethyl. Never bought it, but got a grin out of the name. Remember when gas stations gave away stuff for a fill-up? Our kitchen was loaded with glass tumblers and plates from gas stations. Dunkin Donuts had a deal back in the early 80's where they sold a cup of coffee in a car cup for a buck. I ended up with at least a dozen of them and still have 3 left. Good cups. When somebody would see on they would want one so I gave them away. But not my last 3. Only have 2 lids though. --Vic |
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On Aug 8, 12:06*pm, Gene wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:56:41 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: Remember when gas stations gave away stuff for a fill-up? Our kitchen was loaded with glass tumblers and plates from gas stations. We did, too..... and nobody ever *bought* a map! Patooie... and licking those crappy S&H Green Stamps.... blech... Now, if I can just find that tiger tail for the gas cap. -- Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171 "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." * - Unknown Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepagehttp://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm Or those orange plastic horse shoes you could put on the back of your car. Phillips 66, I believe. BTW, interesting story about the name Phillips "66" incidentally. |
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On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:59:05 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
Yes, but I don't remember seeing octane numbers, just 200, 210,..., 260, etc. After a while they came out with 190 so they could post a lower price on the street sign, but they really didn't want anyone to actually buy it. I remember that, Economy grade, IIRC. If you asked for Regular, you paid a few cents more, at least at that time, for one of the higher grades. |
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thunder wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:59:05 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: Yes, but I don't remember seeing octane numbers, just 200, 210,..., 260, etc. After a while they came out with 190 so they could post a lower price on the street sign, but they really didn't want anyone to actually buy it. I remember that, Economy grade, IIRC. If you asked for Regular, you paid a few cents more, at least at that time, for one of the higher grades. I've got one of those kerosene wick heaters in my garage. The little convenience store that sells good clean kero here dispenses it from an old pump that actually has the scrolling mechanical numbers. My son was just absolutely astonished! Never seen anything but digital! |
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Gene wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:29:34 -0400, D wrote: #1 What the hell is "high test"? For the kids in the group..... years ago, it is what they called "Premium" fuel. Anybody remember the Sunoco pumps where you could dial up your choice of octanes? (And before anybody gets too technical on me.... yes, they went beyond the octane classifications into the research numbers.... all the way to 102, if I remember correctly..... We used to go to the local muni airport and purchase 110 LL and mix it with auto gas to get various octanes. Back then it was all calculated horse power because nobody had a dyno or access to one. |
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Gene wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:23:05 -0400, BAR wrote: Gene wrote: On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:29:34 -0400, D wrote: #1 What the hell is "high test"? For the kids in the group..... years ago, it is what they called "Premium" fuel. Anybody remember the Sunoco pumps where you could dial up your choice of octanes? (And before anybody gets too technical on me.... yes, they went beyond the octane classifications into the research numbers.... all the way to 102, if I remember correctly..... We used to go to the local muni airport and purchase 110 LL and mix it with auto gas to get various octanes. Back then it was all calculated horse power because nobody had a dyno or access to one. Some folks are still doing that! 100LL is *loaded* with lead and it doesn't take much to tame the bad habits of crap fuel. Just don't get caught... This was back in the days when the sold "leaded" fuel additives in 8 and 12 ounce bottles, just after the switch from to unleaded gasoline. All of the cars had motors that predated 1970. |
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Don White wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message m... JustWait wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:23:05 -0400, BAR wrote: Gene wrote: On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:29:34 -0400, D wrote: #1 What the hell is "high test"? For the kids in the group..... years ago, it is what they called "Premium" fuel. Anybody remember the Sunoco pumps where you could dial up your choice of octanes? (And before anybody gets too technical on me.... yes, they went beyond the octane classifications into the research numbers.... all the way to 102, if I remember correctly..... We used to go to the local muni airport and purchase 110 LL and mix it with auto gas to get various octanes. Back then it was all calculated horse power because nobody had a dyno or access to one. Some folks are still doing that! 100LL is *loaded* with lead and it doesn't take much to tame the bad habits of crap fuel. Just don't get caught... Rumor has it I may sneak a bit of VP 110 octane in our bikes here and there;) You mean, you cheat and you still can't win? Try drinking it. Oh my...that pretty well sums up our Freak/LooneyTune show. What a couple of dandies! I prefer sporting contests in which the contestants follow *all* the rules, and don't look for ways to cheat. Speaking of which, I placed 19th (out of 93) yesterday in a "Country Combat Shooting Contest" in southern Virginia. I am thrilled. It was the first contest of this kind (fast shooting, lots of different kinds of target, different stances, reloading, et cetera) I'd ever entered, and most of the shooters were a lot younger. It was hot as hell out there...upper 90's. |
More ethanol problems
On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 08:45:13 -0400, H the K
wrote: Don White wrote: "H the K" wrote in message m... JustWait wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:23:05 -0400, BAR wrote: Gene wrote: On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:29:34 -0400, D wrote: #1 What the hell is "high test"? For the kids in the group..... years ago, it is what they called "Premium" fuel. Anybody remember the Sunoco pumps where you could dial up your choice of octanes? (And before anybody gets too technical on me.... yes, they went beyond the octane classifications into the research numbers.... all the way to 102, if I remember correctly..... We used to go to the local muni airport and purchase 110 LL and mix it with auto gas to get various octanes. Back then it was all calculated horse power because nobody had a dyno or access to one. Some folks are still doing that! 100LL is *loaded* with lead and it doesn't take much to tame the bad habits of crap fuel. Just don't get caught... Rumor has it I may sneak a bit of VP 110 octane in our bikes here and there;) You mean, you cheat and you still can't win? Try drinking it. Oh my...that pretty well sums up our Freak/LooneyTune show. What a couple of dandies! I prefer sporting contests in which the contestants follow *all* the rules, and don't look for ways to cheat. Speaking of which, I placed 19th (out of 93) yesterday in a "Country Combat Shooting Contest" in southern Virginia. I am thrilled. It was the first contest of this kind (fast shooting, lots of different kinds of target, different stances, reloading, et cetera) I'd ever entered, and most of the shooters were a lot younger. It was hot as hell out there...upper 90's. Your August response: Donnie is probably gushing with pride for you. If, that is, he believes you. -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. |
More ethanol problems
J. Leo wrote:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 08:45:13 -0400, H the K wrote: Don White wrote: "H the K" wrote in message m... JustWait wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:23:05 -0400, BAR wrote: Gene wrote: On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:29:34 -0400, D wrote: #1 What the hell is "high test"? For the kids in the group..... years ago, it is what they called "Premium" fuel. Anybody remember the Sunoco pumps where you could dial up your choice of octanes? (And before anybody gets too technical on me.... yes, they went beyond the octane classifications into the research numbers.... all the way to 102, if I remember correctly..... We used to go to the local muni airport and purchase 110 LL and mix it with auto gas to get various octanes. Back then it was all calculated horse power because nobody had a dyno or access to one. Some folks are still doing that! 100LL is *loaded* with lead and it doesn't take much to tame the bad habits of crap fuel. Just don't get caught... Rumor has it I may sneak a bit of VP 110 octane in our bikes here and there;) You mean, you cheat and you still can't win? Try drinking it. Oh my...that pretty well sums up our Freak/LooneyTune show. What a couple of dandies! I prefer sporting contests in which the contestants follow *all* the rules, and don't look for ways to cheat. Speaking of which, I placed 19th (out of 93) yesterday in a "Country Combat Shooting Contest" in southern Virginia. I am thrilled. It was the first contest of this kind (fast shooting, lots of different kinds of target, different stances, reloading, et cetera) I'd ever entered, and most of the shooters were a lot younger. It was hot as hell out there...upper 90's. Your August response: Donnie is probably gushing with pride for you. If, that is, he believes you. -- John H All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking. Having never told the truth about anything, we all know it's but another of his lies. |
More ethanol problems
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:29:34 -0400, D wrote:
#2 How do you know you aren't getting E10? It will still say "Regular", dummy. In Iowa the pumps have placards and the ethanol pump says so right on it. They tell you the octane as well. Locally. you can get leaded aviation gas, leaded racing fuel, pure methanol, E-10, and the usual two grades of straight gas. Casady |
More ethanol problems
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