H the K wrote:
Jack wrote:
On Jul 16, 1:24 pm, nada wrote:


My ex wife worked at the Lordstown, Ohio GM plant. She intentially
shut down the line one day, and the union protected her and kept her
from being fired. She told me the stories of how she and her co-
workers harmed the company, messed with the cars, and generally were
just bad employees, and through it all they kept their jobs and kept
getting raises and bennies. There's a word for how people feel about
this kind of union-bred crap, but it's certainly not "envy".


So, your ex-wife was a loser. So are you. What a surprise.

Should she have been fired and civilly charged?

BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
Jack wrote:
On Jul 16, 1:24 pm, nada wrote:


My ex wife worked at the Lordstown, Ohio GM plant. She intentially
shut down the line one day, and the union protected her and kept her
from being fired. She told me the stories of how she and her co-
workers harmed the company, messed with the cars, and generally were
just bad employees, and through it all they kept their jobs and kept
getting raises and bennies. There's a word for how people feel about
this kind of union-bred crap, but it's certainly not "envy".


So, your ex-wife was a loser. So are you. What a surprise.

Should she have been fired and civilly charged?


For marrying jackoff? Isn't that punishment enough?

On Jul 17, 8:29*am, BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
Jack wrote:
On Jul 16, 1:24 pm, nada wrote:

My ex wife worked at the Lordstown, Ohio GM plant. *She intentially
shut down the line one day, and the union protected her and kept her
from being fired. *She told me the stories of how she and her co-
workers harmed the company, messed with the cars, and generally were
just bad employees, and through it all they kept their jobs and kept
getting raises and bennies. *There's a word for how people feel about
this kind of union-bred crap, but it's certainly not "envy".

So, your ex-wife was a loser. So are you. What a surprise.

Should she have been fired and civilly charged?

Of course. Unfortunately, union protection in the workplace
encourages this type of behavior. The union tells you that management
is out to get you, so they enable this kind of stuff. That's criminal.

"nada" wrote in message ...
Vic Smith wrote:
I posted this to the GM group, which I sometimes participate in, but I
really like talking to boaters more than anything.
Boaters are.....just cool!
Anyway most here have some GM experience, and I know you all like to
talk about unions.

*********************

So I go into the local GM dealership this morning to get the lower
intake manifold gasket set for my kid's 95 Bonneville. The "new
improved" gaskets. Aluminum framed, not plastic. The car's got 80k miles
on it, and too many GM owners took real big
hits when the lower manifold gaskets rotted away or plastic upper
plenum melted away. I bought a Dorman upper plenum elsewhere.
Way too many with as few as 40k miles, and for cars at least as late
as 2003 with the 3800 Series 2 engine have the problem.
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed. I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
There was only very minor relief from GM for these disasters. Hell, the
new LIM gasket didn't come out until 2006 or 2007. My kid is putting in
the improved LIM gasket and the improved Gorman
upper plenum as a preventative measure.
The plenum was 61 bucks through Amazon and the gasket was
75 bucks at GM.
Then there's going to be some brake and carb cleaner to clean things
up, and some thread lock.
So it's going to cost about $150 in parts, and at least 3 hours of the
kid's labor. Luckily, he loves doing this stuff. Anyway, one parts guy
goes to get my gasket set, and I ask one of the
other guys, probably the manager, who's sitting on his ass rifling
through paperwork, "What do you think about the new GM?"
He doesn't hardly look up, and why should he?
After all, I'm just a customer.
He says, "I feel good about it. We've got the union costs under
control." Mumbles something about health costs.
I said, "Yeah, that union health care was hurting GM, and health care
is a problem all over."
He wasn't interested in my comment, and goes on a bit ragging the
union. Didn't hear it exactly, because the other guy came back with
my part and pointed me to cashier window about ten feet away.
The cashier was waiting for me.
So as I give her the invoice and my credit card something is bothering
me. When I asked that guy about the "new GM" I was expecting
to hear something besides bitching about the union.
Maybe something about how good the Malibu and Impala are selling, or a
new goal toward engineering excellence and customer satisfaction.
I walk back to the parts desk and said, probably a bit too loudly,
in order to get this guys attention, but I was actually ****ed.
"Hey, see this?" I held up the $75 gasket set.
"The union didn't design the 3800. GM engineers and GM management
did that. Wasn't the union. Sure as hell wasn't Toyota. And if they
did they would have made it right. You want customers, you better
give them reliability. There's more than one side of a story."
He admitted that as I walked back to the cashier to sign the receipt
and get out of there. Didn't really want to say anything else to him.
**** him.
Anyway, a bad experience. Hope this asshole doesn't represent GM's
future.

--Vic
Every one of these jerks thing the Unioniozed Workers are getting
something tghey want but didn't go after. It is hateful envy.
Those that work at the corner market applied to work there.
Those that work at GM, Boeing, or wherever applied to work there.
Thse that choose to be Entrepeanurs should have included choice health
care into their planning.
The average wage is supposedly 54,000+ in the US yet thes people bitch
when an Auto Worker or whomever is approaching that level. They figure
only Wall Streeters should b e making it.

Be sure to enjoy driving it, US citizens at large now have over $100B less
in the future to spend on autos. Make it over $1T if you include bank
bailouts.

No doubt, fewer autos per capita is the future.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:04:11 -0600, Canuck57 penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|
|"nada" wrote in message ...
| Vic Smith wrote:
| I posted this to the GM group, which I sometimes participate in, but I
| really like talking to boaters more than anything.
| Boaters are.....just cool!
| Anyway most here have some GM experience, and I know you all like to
| talk about unions.
|
| *********************
|
| So I go into the local GM dealership this morning to get the lower
| intake manifold gasket set for my kid's 95 Bonneville. The "new
| improved" gaskets. Aluminum framed, not plastic. The car's got 80k miles
| on it, and too many GM owners took real big
| hits when the lower manifold gaskets rotted away or plastic upper
| plenum melted away. I bought a Dorman upper plenum elsewhere.
| Way too many with as few as 40k miles, and for cars at least as late
| as 2003 with the 3800 Series 2 engine have the problem.
| Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
| Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
| fixed. I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
| about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
| There was only very minor relief from GM for these disasters. Hell, the
| new LIM gasket didn't come out until 2006 or 2007. My kid is putting in
| the improved LIM gasket and the improved Gorman
| upper plenum as a preventative measure.
| The plenum was 61 bucks through Amazon and the gasket was
| 75 bucks at GM.
| Then there's going to be some brake and carb cleaner to clean things
| up, and some thread lock.
| So it's going to cost about $150 in parts, and at least 3 hours of the
| kid's labor. Luckily, he loves doing this stuff. Anyway, one parts guy
| goes to get my gasket set, and I ask one of the
| other guys, probably the manager, who's sitting on his ass rifling
| through paperwork, "What do you think about the new GM?"
| He doesn't hardly look up, and why should he?
| After all, I'm just a customer.
| He says, "I feel good about it. We've got the union costs under
| control." Mumbles something about health costs.
| I said, "Yeah, that union health care was hurting GM, and health care
| is a problem all over."
| He wasn't interested in my comment, and goes on a bit ragging the
| union. Didn't hear it exactly, because the other guy came back with
| my part and pointed me to cashier window about ten feet away.
| The cashier was waiting for me.
| So as I give her the invoice and my credit card something is bothering
| me. When I asked that guy about the "new GM" I was expecting
| to hear something besides bitching about the union.
| Maybe something about how good the Malibu and Impala are selling, or a
| new goal toward engineering excellence and customer satisfaction.
| I walk back to the parts desk and said, probably a bit too loudly,
| in order to get this guys attention, but I was actually ****ed.
| "Hey, see this?" I held up the $75 gasket set.
| "The union didn't design the 3800. GM engineers and GM management
| did that. Wasn't the union. Sure as hell wasn't Toyota. And if they
| did they would have made it right. You want customers, you better
| give them reliability. There's more than one side of a story."
| He admitted that as I walked back to the cashier to sign the receipt
| and get out of there. Didn't really want to say anything else to him.
| **** him.
| Anyway, a bad experience. Hope this asshole doesn't represent GM's
| future.
|
| --Vic
| Every one of these jerks thing the Unioniozed Workers are getting
| something tghey want but didn't go after. It is hateful envy.
| Those that work at the corner market applied to work there.
| Those that work at GM, Boeing, or wherever applied to work there.
| Thse that choose to be Entrepeanurs should have included choice health
| care into their planning.
| The average wage is supposedly 54,000+ in the US yet thes people bitch
| when an Auto Worker or whomever is approaching that level. They figure
| only Wall Streeters should b e making it.
|
|Be sure to enjoy driving it, US citizens at large now have over $100B less
|in the future to spend on autos. Make it over $1T if you include bank
|bailouts.
|
|No doubt, fewer autos per capita is the future.
|

Yes, and that began with NAFTA. A "global economy" means the playing
field gets "leveled."

The Chinese farmer can, now, maybe afford a car.... and to offset
that, Americans (and others) will be forced to make-do with *much*
less....

No Free Ride.


It won't be a leveling of the field, it will be lowering the field.

If you missed the fall of the Roman Empire you are about to see what
happened in real time.

"BAR" wrote in message
...
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:04:11 -0600, Canuck57 penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|
|"nada" wrote in message
...
| Vic Smith wrote:
| I posted this to the GM group, which I sometimes participate in, but
I | really like talking to boaters more than anything.
| Boaters are.....just cool!
| Anyway most here have some GM experience, and I know you all like to
| talk about unions.
|
| *********************
|
| So I go into the local GM dealership this morning to get the lower
| intake manifold gasket set for my kid's 95 Bonneville. The "new
| improved" gaskets. Aluminum framed, not plastic. The car's got 80k
miles | on it, and too many GM owners took real big
| hits when the lower manifold gaskets rotted away or plastic upper
| plenum melted away. I bought a Dorman upper plenum elsewhere.
| Way too many with as few as 40k miles, and for cars at least as late
| as 2003 with the 3800 Series 2 engine have the problem.
| Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
| Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
| fixed. I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums
reading | about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
| There was only very minor relief from GM for these disasters. Hell,
the | new LIM gasket didn't come out until 2006 or 2007. My kid is
putting in | the improved LIM gasket and the improved Gorman
| upper plenum as a preventative measure.
| The plenum was 61 bucks through Amazon and the gasket was
| 75 bucks at GM.
| Then there's going to be some brake and carb cleaner to clean things
| up, and some thread lock.
| So it's going to cost about $150 in parts, and at least 3 hours of
the
| kid's labor. Luckily, he loves doing this stuff. Anyway, one parts
guy | goes to get my gasket set, and I ask one of the
| other guys, probably the manager, who's sitting on his ass rifling
| through paperwork, "What do you think about the new GM?"
| He doesn't hardly look up, and why should he?
| After all, I'm just a customer.
| He says, "I feel good about it. We've got the union costs under
| control." Mumbles something about health costs.
| I said, "Yeah, that union health care was hurting GM, and health care
| is a problem all over."
| He wasn't interested in my comment, and goes on a bit ragging the
| union. Didn't hear it exactly, because the other guy came back with
| my part and pointed me to cashier window about ten feet away.
| The cashier was waiting for me.
| So as I give her the invoice and my credit card something is
bothering
| me. When I asked that guy about the "new GM" I was expecting
| to hear something besides bitching about the union.
| Maybe something about how good the Malibu and Impala are selling, or
a
| new goal toward engineering excellence and customer satisfaction.
| I walk back to the parts desk and said, probably a bit too loudly,
| in order to get this guys attention, but I was actually ****ed.
| "Hey, see this?" I held up the $75 gasket set.
| "The union didn't design the 3800. GM engineers and GM management
| did that. Wasn't the union. Sure as hell wasn't Toyota. And if
they
| did they would have made it right. You want customers, you better
| give them reliability. There's more than one side of a story."
| He admitted that as I walked back to the cashier to sign the receipt
| and get out of there. Didn't really want to say anything else to
him.
| **** him.
| Anyway, a bad experience. Hope this asshole doesn't represent GM's
| future.
|
| --Vic
| Every one of these jerks thing the Unioniozed Workers are getting |
something tghey want but didn't go after. It is hateful envy.
| Those that work at the corner market applied to work there.
| Those that work at GM, Boeing, or wherever applied to work there.
| Thse that choose to be Entrepeanurs should have included choice health
| care into their planning.
| The average wage is supposedly 54,000+ in the US yet thes people bitch
| when an Auto Worker or whomever is approaching that level. They figure
| only Wall Streeters should b e making it.
|
|Be sure to enjoy driving it, US citizens at large now have over $100B
less |in the future to spend on autos. Make it over $1T if you include
bank |bailouts.
|
|No doubt, fewer autos per capita is the future. |

Yes, and that began with NAFTA. A "global economy" means the playing
field gets "leveled."

The Chinese farmer can, now, maybe afford a car.... and to offset
that, Americans (and others) will be forced to make-do with *much*
less....

No Free Ride.


It won't be a leveling of the field, it will be lowering the field.

If you missed the fall of the Roman Empire you are about to see what
happened in real time.

What? Are you out of credit? LOL.

Seriously, more people and a fixed world of resources means more competition
and less room for waste. Simply put, the US and Canada have high levels of
waste and debt. Government costs, right out of whack, executive
compensation out to lunch and the little guy always pays. No rewards for
loyalty, honor or integrity. Just rewards for corruption, bailouts and
debtors.

China owns the US.... just finished reading how they are spending the nearly
$2T of useless excess USDs they have buying up real assets on the world's
market at a real cheap valuations. Cash is king, debtors are whining like
stuck pigs.

A little late to cry, if we in NA wanted it any better we would think before
we vote. Too many years of crooked government and decaying morals. With
the attitude the government will bailout loosers, the taxpayers will have to
shoulder more lost wealth for the corrupt.

Wait until this years mortgage crisis hits the news. The downturn has a
ways to go yet.

The Roman Empire fell for the same reasons, when the equitable values were
lost, so did the empire.

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:15:01 -0600, Canuck57 wrote:


China owns the US....

I may not be happy with the exodus of jobs from here to there, but make
no mistake, China needs us, far more than we need them. China may become
the economic powerhouse, but before it does, it will have to address it's
institutional social issues. Or, do you really believe it's "blend" of
communism and capitalism will work in the long term?


Wait until this years mortgage crisis hits the news. The downturn has a
ways to go yet.

LOL, you should stop concentrating on the lagging indicators, and start
concentrating on the leading indicators. We are by no means out of the
woods, but the recovery started several months ago. By fall, it should
be clear to even the most obtuse.

PT Barnum once said"........
JR

Vic Smith wrote:

I posted this to the GM group, which I sometimes participate in,
but I really like talking to boaters more than anything.
Boaters are.....just cool!
Anyway most here have some GM experience, and I know you all like to
talk about unions.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

On Jul 16, 11:26*am, Vic Smith
wrote:
I posted this to the GM group, which I sometimes participate in,
but I really like talking to boaters more than anything.
Boaters are.....just cool!
Anyway most here have some GM experience, and I know you all like to
talk about unions.

*********************

So I go into the local GM dealership this morning to get the lower
intake manifold gasket set for my kid's 95 Bonneville. *The "new
improved" gaskets. *Aluminum framed, not plastic.
The car's got 80k miles on it, and too many GM owners took real big
hits when the lower manifold gaskets rotted away or plastic upper
plenum melted away. *I bought a Dorman upper plenum elsewhere.
Way too many with as few as 40k miles, and for cars at least as late
as 2003 with the 3800 Series 2 engine have the problem.
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed.
I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
There was only very minor relief from GM for these disasters.
Hell, the new LIM gasket didn't come out until 2006 or 2007.
My kid is putting in the improved LIM gasket and the improved Gorman
upper plenum as a preventative measure.
The plenum was 61 bucks through Amazon and the gasket was
75 bucks at GM.
Then there's going to be some brake and carb cleaner to clean things
up, and some thread lock.
So it's going to cost about $150 in parts, and at least 3 hours of the
kid's labor. *Luckily, he loves doing this stuff.
Anyway, one parts guy goes to get my gasket set, and I ask one of the
other guys, probably the manager, who's sitting on his ass rifling
through paperwork, "What do you think about the new GM?"
He doesn't hardly look up, and why should he?
After all, I'm just a customer.
He says, "I feel good about it. *We've got the union costs under
control." *Mumbles something about health costs.
I said, "Yeah, that union health care was hurting GM, and health care
is a problem all over."
He wasn't interested in my comment, and goes on a bit ragging the
union. *Didn't hear it exactly, because the other guy came back with
my part and pointed me to cashier window about ten feet away.
The cashier was waiting for me.
So as I give her the invoice and my credit card something is bothering
me. *When I asked that guy about the "new GM" I was expecting
to hear something besides bitching about the union.
Maybe something about how good the Malibu and Impala are selling, or a
new goal toward engineering excellence and customer satisfaction.
I walk back to the parts desk and said, probably a bit too loudly,
in order to get this guys attention, but I was actually ****ed.
"Hey, see this?" *I held up the $75 gasket set.
"The union didn't design the 3800. *GM engineers and GM management
did that. *Wasn't the union. *Sure as hell wasn't Toyota. *And if they
did they would have made it right. *You want customers, you better
give them reliability. *There's more than one side of a story."
He admitted that as I walked back to the cashier to sign the receipt
and get out of there. *Didn't really want to say anything else to him.
**** him.
Anyway, a bad experience. *Hope this asshole doesn't represent GM's
future.

--Vic

My 2004 Suburban that I bought used was mysteriously losing coolant.
Turns out GM shipped it with porous cylinder heads. Only heads made by
a certain supplier were defective. Seems like a pretty cut and dry
case of a manufacturing defect. GM's response, "Sorry".

Do a Google search for GM Castech Heads and meet all the happy owners.

By the time I buy my next car the kids will be older and I won't need
all the seating so I'm buying a Ford P/U.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:11:16 -0700 (PDT), Monkey Butler penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|Do a Google search for GM Castech Heads and meet all the happy owners.

Castech........right.... Another part farmed out to be cheaply made
in Mexico. Gosh, I am so surprised it is junk!



It's the same old story of U.S. manufacturing...don't make it better,
make it cheaper. But it isn't just U.S. manufacturers who do this.