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Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. Can't say I blame them for feeling that way. Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so. They have to spin up pretty high under load. Another issue is they exhaust to the air. The OB manufacturers could come up with the suggested option, but given the marketplace and engineering considerations, they are not. A retrofit kit might sell and be a profitable venture. The heavy alt on the OB could be regulated to limit alt drag while underway, perhaps automatically/manually dialed adjustment, or perhaps detached and stowed. So in port or when otherwise needed you have a "quiet" water-cooled 9-15 hp genset in the same package as your propulsion motor. A mounted kicker OB doing gen duty is another possibility. There are obvious issues with cowling size, pulleys and electrical connections. Perhaps with salt water intrusion. Maybe a heavier electrical plug to the boat system while in port. OEM O/B warranty is gone of course. Don't know. That's why I'm leaving it in your inventive hands. Let me know what you think. Anybody. I'm sure I'm not the first to think about this. --Vic |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
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Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:19:57 -0400, wrote: Probably not exactly what you are looking for but it will keep your batteries up http://gfretwell.com/electrical/redneck_power.jpg Dang! That's right purty. --Vic Damn you Vic, you made me look.... errrrrr.... only one eye though, I know better than to open links from certain folks... Specially them liberals like Gene;) Or of course anything by shor.... er, uh, forget it...;) |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Jul 13, 9:58*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats. A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. *Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. *Can't say I blame them for feeling that way. Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so. They have to spin up pretty high under load. Another issue is they exhaust to the air. The OB manufacturers could come up with the suggested option, but given the marketplace and engineering considerations, they are not. A retrofit kit might sell and be a profitable venture. The heavy alt on the OB could be regulated to limit alt drag while underway, perhaps automatically/manually dialed adjustment, or perhaps detached and stowed. So in port or when otherwise needed you have a "quiet" water-cooled 9-15 hp genset in the same package as your propulsion motor. A mounted kicker OB doing gen duty is another possibility. There are obvious issues with cowling size, pulleys and electrical connections. Perhaps with salt water intrusion. Maybe a heavier electrical plug to the boat system while in port. OEM O/B warranty is gone of course. Don't know. *That's why I'm leaving it in your inventive hands. Let me know what you think. *Anybody. *I'm sure I'm not the first to think about this. --Vic Questions: 1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air? 2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should power their alternator (seems not to be the case). 3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic generators? 4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do? The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9 Yamaha, a great motor. Seems like the best option might be a switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output for charging and powering the prop. Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? This option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen. Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. I am not too familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they cannot be that complicated. You might have a winner here. However, wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for real charging? UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000 mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000. If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well, $20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will be soon filled. I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation dose for mammographies. So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. Do NOT furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights. If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com (replace the # with @). David |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Jul 13, 11:00*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:25:22 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:19:57 -0400, wrote: Probably not exactly what you are looking for but it will keep your batteries up http://gfretwell.com/electrical/redneck_power.jpg Dang! *That's right purty. --Vic I tow it behind my golf cart. It makes my Club Car a hybrid. *;-) Could you get a tax rebate for that hybrid? |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
Frogwatch wrote:
UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000 mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000. If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well, $20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will be soon filled. I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine. |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote: Questions: 1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air? That's a major part of it but the mechanical noise is also significant. 2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should power their alternator (seems not to be the case). They seem to be showing up mostly on boats that do not have permanently installed generators, no other pattern that I've seen. One of the most annoying that we've encountered was on a 30 something powerboat that was apparently running it for refrigeration. The boat was on a mooring next to ours for several days and the generator was being run more than half the time. 3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic generators? No, a fair number of inboard sailboats also have them. They're OK if used only for emergency charging or repairs. 4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do? Possibly but it's hard to say without some testing. |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote: Questions: 1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air? Just part of it. There other mechanical noises, some no doubt due to the high revs needed - not much low-end torque in these things. There are harmonics elements thrown in too. Biggest problem I see is that they are air-cooled. That also limits sound-deadening cowling. 2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should power their alternator (seems not to be the case). Some with inboard diesels do heavier duty alt setups, but usually space available and the amount of work involved in a hot hole prevents it, so they end up with the Honda gensets as a path of least resistance. 3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic generators? Not exclusively, but most OB powered sailboats are hampered by weak OB alts. 6-10 amps max for the 10 hp range, and that's probably reved up a bit. Solar and wind can fill some gaps, but there are many of those Honda gensets on boats. Just seems that water-cooled powerhead on the OB can be put to more use. 4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do? Don't think it's practical due to the usual distance the genset is from the water and back pressure issues. Besides, that's only part of the problem. The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9 Yamaha, a great motor. Seems like the best option might be a switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output for charging and powering the prop. Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? This option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen. Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. I am not too familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they cannot be that complicated. You might have a winner here. However, wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for real charging? No doubt, but it would still be considerably more quiet and capable of producing amps than the Honda gensets. I don't want to pursue this - don't know anything about electricity, or the mechanical engineering stuff. Just tossing it out because when I get a boat this would be an attractive auxiliary, seeing as I might want to occasionally run A/C in Florida or other hell hot places. UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000 mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000. If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well, $20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will be soon filled. I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation dose for mammographies. Cool. Good luck with that. Good to hear you got inspired by altruism instead of money. Money usually follows anyway. Entrepreneurship comes in all shapes. So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. Do NOT furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights. If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com (replace the # with @). Thanks, but I'm too lazy to fool around with it. And like I said, it's surely been thought of before. I'll keep my good ideas secret - when I get one. --Vic |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Jul 13, 11:33*pm, Vic Smith
wrote: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch wrote: Questions: 1: *Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air? Just part of it. *There other mechanical noises, some no doubt due to the high revs needed - not much low-end torque in these things. There are harmonics elements thrown in too. Biggest problem I see is that they are air-cooled. *That also limits sound-deadening cowling. 2: *Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should power their alternator (seems not to be the case). Some with inboard diesels do heavier duty alt setups, but usually space available and the amount of work involved in a hot hole prevents it, so they end up with the Honda gensets as a path of least resistance. 3: *Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic generators? Not exclusively, but most OB powered sailboats are hampered by weak OB alts. *6-10 amps max for the 10 hp range, and that's probably reved up a bit. *Solar and wind can fill some gaps, but there are many of those Honda gensets on boats. Just seems that water-cooled powerhead on the OB can be put to more use. * 4: *Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do? Don't think it's practical due to the usual distance the genset is from the water and back pressure issues. *Besides, that's only part of the problem. The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9 Yamaha, a great motor. *Seems like the best option might be a switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output for charging and powering the prop. Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? *This option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen. Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. *I am not too familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they cannot be that complicated. *You might have a winner here. *However, wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for real charging? No doubt, but it would still be considerably more quiet and capable of producing amps than the Honda gensets. I don't want to pursue this - don't know anything about electricity, or the mechanical engineering stuff. Just tossing it out because when I get a boat this would be an attractive auxiliary, seeing as I might want to occasionally run A/C in Florida or other hell hot places. UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd that come from). *I knew for awhile it might be possible but never looked into it enough. *Now, I find there are roughly 10,000 mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000. If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well, $20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get venture capital types interested. *Kinda looks as if my idle time will be soon filled. I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation dose for mammographies. Cool. *Good luck with that. *Good to hear you got inspired by altruism instead of money. *Money usually follows anyway. *Entrepreneurship comes in all shapes. So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. *Do NOT furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights. If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com (replace the # with @). Thanks, but I'm too lazy to fool around with it. And like I said, it's surely been thought of before. I'll keep my good ideas secret - when I get one. --Vic Altruism? Whats that? |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K
wrote: Frogwatch wrote: UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000 mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000. If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well, $20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will be soon filled. I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine. Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo. Dartmouth being the Rome Church. --Vic |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:39:09 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote: Altruism? Whats that? What you'll tell your wife. --Vic |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote: Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so. Um...huh? I just bought a 2000i for my son's pontoon boat and I've tested it - it's pretty damn quiet - about the level of an window mounted air conditioner on high - less actually. And the "noise" is more like white noise than generator noise. We had to shut down the kitchen electrical power during the remodel last week and I ran the 2000i on the deck to run the TV - I was sitting within 8 feet of it and I could hear the kids next door, the local dogs, cars going by on the street while I was reading some technical material - didn't bother me any. And what smell? |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:40:49 -0400, "Just wait a frekin' minute!"
wrote: Vic Smith wrote: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:19:57 -0400, wrote: Probably not exactly what you are looking for but it will keep your batteries up http://gfretwell.com/electrical/redneck_power.jpg Dang! That's right purty. --Vic Damn you Vic, you made me look.... errrrrr.... only one eye though, I know better than to open links from certain folks... Specially them liberals like Gene;) Or of course anything by shor.... er, uh, forget it...;) Watch it boy. I know where you live. :) |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:07:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch wrote: Questions: 1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air? That's a major part of it but the mechanical noise is also significant. 2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should power their alternator (seems not to be the case). They seem to be showing up mostly on boats that do not have permanently installed generators, no other pattern that I've seen. One of the most annoying that we've encountered was on a 30 something powerboat that was apparently running it for refrigeration. The boat was on a mooring next to ours for several days and the generator was being run more than half the time. 3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic generators? No, a fair number of inboard sailboats also have them. They're OK if used only for emergency charging or repairs. 4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do? Possibly but it's hard to say without some testing. I wonder if it has something to do with the hull or deck? I have a 2000i (I posted about it further up the thread) and I think it's very quiet compared to other small generators. Now compared to the 15kw Kubota 3 cylinder diesel house generator, it's positively silent. :) Seriously, I have to wonder if it's something about the boats that causes the problem rather than the generator itself. The 2000i is rated at rougly 50dB which is normal conversation "noise" level. As far as I'm concerned, it's quieter than that. |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K wrote: Frogwatch wrote: UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000 mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000. If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well, $20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will be soon filled. I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine. Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo. Dartmouth being the Rome Church. --Vic Unlikely. Galileo was a genius. Frogwatch is...a frog. And even if Loogy kisses him, he won't turn into a prince. I'd trust the team at Dartmouth to develop the right stuff, and Froggy to develop...a boat any fool could manufacture using only empty cardboard boxes, a red Swingline stapler, and his "magic spray" that turns the cardboard into a substance with all the strength and durability of toilet paper. |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch wrote: Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so. Um...huh? I just bought a 2000i for my son's pontoon boat and I've tested it - it's pretty damn quiet - about the level of an window mounted air conditioner on high - less actually. And the "noise" is more like white noise than generator noise. We had to shut down the kitchen electrical power during the remodel last week and I ran the 2000i on the deck to run the TV - I was sitting within 8 feet of it and I could hear the kids next door, the local dogs, cars going by on the street while I was reading some technical material - didn't bother me any. And what smell? So...you didn't buy the eTec model, eh? |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:42:13 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote: Seriously, I have to wonder if it's something about the boats that causes the problem rather than the generator itself. The 2000i is rated at rougly 50dB which is normal conversation "noise" level. As far as I'm concerned, it's quieter than that. More likely being on water, with nothing to absorb the sound. Many isolate the generator from the boat with padding. Then there's the "perception" problem. When I mow my lawn, the mower is singing a song. But my neighbor's is making a highly irritating sound. There are plenty of complaints about the Honda's. Wayne would like to outlaw them at anchorages. Some campgrounds *have* outlawed them, or restricted the hours of operation, according to what I've read. Never experienced it myself, though I've had my issues with folks blasting their music at me. Wayne and other cruisers know more about it. --Vic |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:42:13 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: Seriously, I have to wonder if it's something about the boats that causes the problem rather than the generator itself. The 2000i is rated at rougly 50dB which is normal conversation "noise" level. As far as I'm concerned, it's quieter than that. More likely being on water, with nothing to absorb the sound. Many isolate the generator from the boat with padding. Then there's the "perception" problem. When I mow my lawn, the mower is singing a song. But my neighbor's is making a highly irritating sound. There are plenty of complaints about the Honda's. Wayne would like to outlaw them at anchorages. Some campgrounds *have* outlawed them, or restricted the hours of operation, according to what I've read. Never experienced it myself, though I've had my issues with folks blasting their music at me. Wayne and other cruisers know more about it. --Vic I have one of those Hondas. It makes less noise than W'hine whining about them. Some anchorages are very quiet at night, and others are plagued with the sounds of loud and usually bad music, drunks, and shrounds banging against masts. The latter is the sound I find most annoying at night in a marina or anchorage. |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:45:07 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K wrote: Frogwatch wrote: UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000 mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000. If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well, $20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will be soon filled. I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine. Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo. Dartmouth being the Rome Church. --Vic A bite on an obvious troll. -- John H |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Jul 14, 9:05*am, Just John Again wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:45:07 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K wrote: Frogwatch wrote: UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd that come from). *I knew for awhile it might be possible but never looked into it enough. *Now, I find there are roughly 10,000 mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000. If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well, $20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get venture capital types interested. *Kinda looks as if my idle time will be soon filled. I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine. Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo. Dartmouth being the Rome Church. --Vic A bite on an obvious troll. -- John H Halyards against masts(not shrouds), a noise I quickly stop hearing although it drives others crazy. Most of the time you can minimize it simply by pulling the halyard tight. I always forget to do this. |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats. A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These generators are made by a variety of manufacturers. I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones. I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook, no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock. Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot water for showers, and topped off batteries. A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even desirable. Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights. Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is the problem. |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
Jim wrote:
Vic Smith wrote: For O/B sailboats. A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These generators are made by a variety of manufacturers. I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones. I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook, no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock. Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot water for showers, and topped off batteries. A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even desirable. Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights. Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is the problem. What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight? |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:57:27 -0700, Jim wrote:
Vic Smith wrote: For O/B sailboats. A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These generators are made by a variety of manufacturers. That's the one usually mentioned, because they are the most common, because from most accounts they are the best. Wasn't knocking Honda. That's what I'd get. I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones. Mind you, I know about this only from reading, and the Honda's are sometimes specifically mentioned. I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook, no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock. I'd have a similar setup on a bigger boat with an internal diesel. And also have solar and perhaps wind. But my boating plans will likely end with OB power, and my post about OB's with better charging output was in that vein. That way I could easily do without a dedicated generator. Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot water for showers, and topped off batteries. A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even desirable. I agree "not desirable." The "not necessary" is harder to pin down. I don't know where you boat/sail, but reading journals of Caribbean and Florida cruisers (Florida is where I'll be) there are plenty of complaints about droning generators running almost constantly, including all night. The heat can be brutal, and though my wife is hardy, it may be necessary to provide a respite with A/C. Not that I don't appreciate a cooling off myself, but with her no respite from sweating could be a deal killer. My intent there is to use the smallest home unit and cool only a berth area. How I would do that is another subject. But having limited A/C was the reason behind my initial post. Duty cycle would be light, but the amps might be impossible to replace practically with a small OB alternator. Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights. Yet those running them often complain about the gas generators on decks, and say their gensets are almost dead silent. Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is the problem. Add TV's, microwaves, walk-in reefers, etc. Not anything I want to do. But I appreciate a good night's sleep at less than 90 degrees. BTW, if you search a bit for Hondas and cruisers, you might be surprised to find how many small sailboats with alts attached to diesels use the Honda's often enough because they don't want to run the inboard, for one reason or another. So though you and I may agree about keeping electric power consumption low, others disagree. I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when they cruise if they don't have A/C. For a short trip sleeping on deck is a possibility, but I think when you get to week you want to dive into a cool berth when nightime temps stay high, below decks is hotter, and it's raining. I'm willing to torture myself a bit - but I'm a man. My wife has a different psychological makeup. Thank God for that! --Vic |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:25:42 -0500, cavelamb
wrote: What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight? I was thinking about you being down there in Texas and wonder how you handle exactly that. --Vic |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m... Jim wrote: Vic Smith wrote: For O/B sailboats. A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These generators are made by a variety of manufacturers. I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones. I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook, no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock. Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot water for showers, and topped off batteries. A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even desirable. Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights. Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is the problem. What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight? Sweat. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:57:27 -0700, Jim wrote:
Vic Smith wrote: For O/B sailboats. A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These generators are made by a variety of manufacturers. I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones. I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook, no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock. Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot water for showers, and topped off batteries. A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even desirable. Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights. Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is the problem. Well I don't drink coffee so there wouldn't be a coffee maker. But dude - gotta have air conditioning. :) Don't leave home without it. |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:25:42 -0500, cavelamb
wrote: Jim wrote: Vic Smith wrote: For O/B sailboats. A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These generators are made by a variety of manufacturers. I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones. I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook, no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock. Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot water for showers, and topped off batteries. A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even desirable. Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights. Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is the problem. What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight? Exactly. I have a hard enough time sleeping through the night without adding a steam bath to the equation. |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:31:27 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote: "cavelamb" wrote in message om... Jim wrote: Vic Smith wrote: For O/B sailboats. A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These generators are made by a variety of manufacturers. I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones. I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook, no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock. Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot water for showers, and topped off batteries. A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even desirable. Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights. Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is the problem. What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight? Sweat. Not me. A/C all the way. And I don't care if folks don't like the noise. Move your boat. :) |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
Capt. JG wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message m... Jim wrote: Vic Smith wrote: For O/B sailboats. A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These generators are made by a variety of manufacturers. I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones. I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook, no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock. Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot water for showers, and topped off batteries. A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even desirable. Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights. Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is the problem. What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight? Sweat. Or mount the AC and run the generator - like everybody else would do - if they were out here... |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote: I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when they cruise if they don't have A/C. That's a good question and I can partially answer it - A/C. My son has been using the Grady which has A/C in the step down. From what he's told me, it gets hot there even at night when the temps are in the high 70s. No cross ventilation in the cuddy. I can speak to the cuddy being a little uncomfortable when I took it down to Charleston a couple of months ago. http://www.gradywhite.com/336/ - click on the cabin tour. And we've got a Honda EU3000i on the boat to run the A/C. I'll give you a personal evaluation when I go down in August. :) For a short trip sleeping on deck is a possibility, but I think when you get to week you want to dive into a cool berth when nightime temps stay high, below decks is hotter, and it's raining. I'm willing to torture myself a bit - but I'm a man. Not me. My physiological heat control circled the bowl in SEA and only got worse when I lived down South for a few years in MS and LA. I hate the cold and I hate the heat. I'm only comfortable between the temperatures of 68 and 80 degrees which means I probably should move to Hawaii. :) |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote: I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when they cruise if they don't have A/C. You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time without A/C. |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
There are a couple of things that help.
Shade is life. A tarp over the boom can reduce cabin temps 20 degrees or more. A wash down pump can be used to spray water on the hull and decks to cool them. That's necessary even when the AC is being used or the boat will never shake off the noon day sun. But the real way is you simply acclimate to the heat. I don't normally complain at 100 degrees - until it's 100 for thirty days in a row. Then, I figure we've earned bragging rights. It takes a few weeks out in the heat, proper diet and hydration, and some guts. People lived her for hundreds of years before Mr. Collins figured out his apparatus for treating the air... Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when they cruise if they don't have A/C. That's a good question and I can partially answer it - A/C. My son has been using the Grady which has A/C in the step down. From what he's told me, it gets hot there even at night when the temps are in the high 70s. No cross ventilation in the cuddy. I can speak to the cuddy being a little uncomfortable when I took it down to Charleston a couple of months ago. http://www.gradywhite.com/336/ - click on the cabin tour. And we've got a Honda EU3000i on the boat to run the A/C. I'll give you a personal evaluation when I go down in August. :) For a short trip sleeping on deck is a possibility, but I think when you get to week you want to dive into a cool berth when nightime temps stay high, below decks is hotter, and it's raining. I'm willing to torture myself a bit - but I'm a man. Not me. My physiological heat control circled the bowl in SEA and only got worse when I lived down South for a few years in MS and LA. I hate the cold and I hate the heat. I'm only comfortable between the temperatures of 68 and 80 degrees which means I probably should move to Hawaii. :) |
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Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when they cruise if they don't have A/C. You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time without A/C. Whata wus. |
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On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:17:15 -0500, cavelamb
wrote: People lived her for hundreds of years before Mr. Collins figured out his apparatus for treating the air... Well this is the 21st Century - or so I'm told. :) Speaking of which, when I was in the service, we were on manuvers near Gila Bend, AZ and I ran into a grizzled old Master Sergeant who claimed that two cups of hot coffee and a table spoon (not a tea spoon - a table spoon) of powdered cayenne pepper on his breakfast food kept him cool all day. The odd thing is, I never saw him sweat once. :) |
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On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:06:29 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when they cruise if they don't have A/C. You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time without A/C. I took that to heart the first time you told me. And I intend to have it, if only on a limited scale for sleeping. But despite that being a general rule, some acclimate better than others. After all, there were people living there before A/C. My dad's family lived there for 4 years in the '20's. Mostly Daytona and the Keys. Of course Daytona is on the Atlantic. But my uncle and his wife lived for many years in a duplex on a canal in Cape Coral. No A/C, just fans. Not my cuppa, but some do it just fine. --Vic |
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On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:01:27 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote: That Grady is more boat than I'll have, and I"ll have to tackle A/C differently. Not me. My physiological heat control circled the bowl in SEA and only got worse when I lived down South for a few years in MS and LA. I hate the cold and I hate the heat. I'm only comfortable between the temperatures of 68 and 80 degrees which means I probably should move to Hawaii. :) That's how my wife is, and she bitches when it gets out of that range. Funny thing is she's slim, and when I slim up heat hardly bothers me at all. I think a lot of it is psychological, maybe based on experience. Not to say your thermostat can't get messed up. I know I can control a lot of the "discomfort" by setting my state of mind, and using a few tricks. Maybe because I spent years in a 120 degree boiler room and then spent some years almost as hot as a heat treater, then some years working outside in record cold winters. Gives your mind something to work with when the temps are a bit hot or cold. Then your body catches up. A cool drink or hot toddy does help. Those are tricks. Still haven't found a good trick to stop her bitching though. --Vic |
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On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:17:15 -0500, cavelamb
wrote: There are a couple of things that help. Shade is life. A tarp over the boom can reduce cabin temps 20 degrees or more. A wash down pump can be used to spray water on the hull and decks to cool them. That's necessary even when the AC is being used or the boat will never shake off the noon day sun. Thanks. Hadn't seen that trick before. Or forgot. But the real way is you simply acclimate to the heat. That's what I've found. And it happens pretty quick for me. Found out for sure when my car A/C broke down there once. A new schedule avoiding the high sun got us right in 2 days. Found we cranked the A/C in our suite up to 85 when we came in, to keep from getting cold. --Vic |
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Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:17:15 -0500, cavelamb wrote: There are a couple of things that help. Shade is life. A tarp over the boom can reduce cabin temps 20 degrees or more. A wash down pump can be used to spray water on the hull and decks to cool them. That's necessary even when the AC is being used or the boat will never shake off the noon day sun. Thanks. Hadn't seen that trick before. Or forgot. I live in California, no need for air conditioning, so I wasn't thinking that way in the discussion on running a generator. Since I don't have (and rarely need) an air conditioner at the house, I occasionally hose down the plants in the side yard on the few hot nights we have. It really cools the place down. But the real way is you simply acclimate to the heat. That's what I've found. And it happens pretty quick for me. Found out for sure when my car A/C broke down there once. A new schedule avoiding the high sun got us right in 2 days. Found we cranked the A/C in our suite up to 85 when we came in, to keep from getting cold. --Vic |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m... Capt. JG wrote: "cavelamb" wrote in message m... Jim wrote: Vic Smith wrote: For O/B sailboats. A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB. Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor. Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats, especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's should be outlawed at anchorages. What's with Honda's being the bad guy? Why mention Honda? These generators are made by a variety of manufacturers. I would say Honda generators aren't the problem, it's the construction site type generators that are the problem. You know the ones. I use an inverter, four golf cart batteries for the house bank, and have a large alternator on the main engine. I'm good for 4 days on the hook, no charging, and the ice cream is hard enough to bend a spoon. I use electricity exactly the same at anchor that I use it at the dock. Occasionally, with an hour or two of charging, I have a full tank of hot water for showers, and topped off batteries. A separate generator is not necessary as far as I can see. Not even desirable. Big, water cooled internal generators that run all day and night are very annoying to me. Shut the damn thing off and shut off some lights. Everyone who thinks they have to run their generator to make coffee is the problem. What do you do when it's 105 degrees at midnight? Sweat. Or mount the AC and run the generator - like everybody else would do - if they were out here... My second answer was, "Don't be there." -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Ping: Froggy - Need Boat Gen Invention/Development
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
... On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:06:29 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:48:52 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: I wonder how the Texans and other gulf cruisers handle the heat when they cruise if they don't have A/C. You can not cruise (or live in) the gulf states in the summer time without A/C. I took that to heart the first time you told me. And I intend to have it, if only on a limited scale for sleeping. But despite that being a general rule, some acclimate better than others. After all, there were people living there before A/C. My dad's family lived there for 4 years in the '20's. Mostly Daytona and the Keys. Of course Daytona is on the Atlantic. But my uncle and his wife lived for many years in a duplex on a canal in Cape Coral. No A/C, just fans. Not my cuppa, but some do it just fine. --Vic I was in Yuma Arizona in the middle of the summer way back when for a week. It topped out at 123 and was well over 110 the rest of the days. One day, we decided to walk into town. My tennis shoes blistered. We were on the Colorado most of the time, so we could always get out of the water if we ran out of beer, worst case of course. :-) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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