....seem appropriate on Independence Day:



The circumstances of the world are continually changing, and the
opinions of men change also; and as government is for the living, and
not for the dead, it is the living only that has any right in it. That
which may be thought right and found convenient in one age, may be
thought wrong and found inconvenient in another. In such cases, who is
to decide, the living, or the dead?


The countries the most famous and the most respected of antiquity are
those which distinguished themselves by promoting and patronizing
science, and on the contrary those which neglected or discouraged it are
universally denominated rude and barbarous.


All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or
Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify
and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder;
for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.


What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty
committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief
of this debauchery is called faith.


- Thomas Paine -

Happy F'oth Day to you Krausie! How are things at home with you and
the Dr-Dr wifelet? Jus' was wondering if she had, a'hem - started,
you know, giving you a little bit again. Nothing like some fireworks
at home on the 4th, eh?

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:08 -0400, HK wrote:

...seem appropriate on Independence Day:



The circumstances of the world are continually changing, and the
opinions of men change also; and as government is for the living, and
not for the dead, it is the living only that has any right in it. That
which may be thought right and found convenient in one age, may be
thought wrong and found inconvenient in another. In such cases, who is
to decide, the living, or the dead?


The countries the most famous and the most respected of antiquity are
those which distinguished themselves by promoting and patronizing
science, and on the contrary those which neglected or discouraged it are
universally denominated rude and barbarous.


All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or
Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify
and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder;
for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.


What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty
committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief
of this debauchery is called faith.


- Thomas Paine -

Glen Beck likes to quote Tom Paine.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:08 -0400, HK wrote:

...seem appropriate on Independence Day:



The circumstances of the world are continually changing, and the
opinions of men change also; and as government is for the living, and
not for the dead, it is the living only that has any right in it. That
which may be thought right and found convenient in one age, may be
thought wrong and found inconvenient in another. In such cases, who is
to decide, the living, or the dead?


The countries the most famous and the most respected of antiquity are
those which distinguished themselves by promoting and patronizing
science, and on the contrary those which neglected or discouraged it are
universally denominated rude and barbarous.


All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or
Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify
and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder;
for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.


What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty
committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief
of this debauchery is called faith.


- Thomas Paine -

Glen Beck likes to quote Tom Paine.

--Vic


I won't hold that aqainst Paine.

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:39:11 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:41:08 -0400, HK wrote:

- Thomas Paine -

There is quite a lot of revisionist history that hides what many of
the founding fathers really believed: Paine, Franklin, Adams, Allen,
Madison, Lincoln, etc.

Paine had quite a lot to say on religion....

"What is it the Bible teaches us? -- rapine, cruelty, and murder. What
is it the Testament teaches us? -- to believe that the Almighty
committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married, and the
belief of this debauchery is called faith.”

"It is the fable of Jesus Christ, as told in the New Testament, and
the wild and visionary doctrine raised thereon, against which I
contend. The story, taking it as it is told, is blasphemously
obscene.”

"As to the Christian system of faith, it appears to me as a species of
Atheism -- a sort of religious denial of God. It professes to believe
in a man rather than in God. It is a compound made up Chiefly of
Manism with but little Deism, and is an near Atheism as twilight is to
darkness. It introduces between man and his Maker an opaque body,
which it calls a Redeemer, as the moon introduces her opaque self
between the earth and the sun, and it produces by this means a
religious, or an irreligious eclipse of light. It has put the whole
orbit of reason into shade.”

"I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond
this life."

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the
Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the
Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my
own church"

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or
Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify
and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”

"Each of these churches shows certain books, which they call
revelation, or the word of God. The Jews say that their word of God
was given by God to Moses, face to face; the Christians say that their
word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say that their
word of God, the Koran, was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of
these churches accuses the others of unbelief; and, for my own part, I
disbelieve them all.”

"No man ought to make a living by religion. It is dishonest so to do."
It has often been said that anything may be proved from the Bible; but
before anything can be admitted as proved by the Bible, the Bible
itself must be proved to be true; for if the Bible be not true, or the
truth of it be doubtful, it ceases to have authority, and cannot be
admitted as proof of anything.

I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name
to that book (The Bible).

Of all the systems of religion that were ever invented, there is none
more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more
repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself, than this thing
called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to
convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart
torpid, or produces only atheists and fanatics. As an engine of power
it serves the purpose of despotism; and as a means of wealth, the
avarice of priests; but so far as it respects the good of man in
general, it leads to nothing here or hereafter.

I appreciate that he thought the church disconnected man from god.

I believe the same.