A few thoughts for those...
 

....whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any
other organization that ever existed. They have done more for decency,
for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the
developing of character in man, than the other association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But our
workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their labor.
They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use their labor
at a return adequate to support them at a decent and constantly rising
standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of security against the
inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be to
join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been labor's
weapon of progress in the century of our industrial civilization. Where
the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced to a state of
medieval peonage, the standard of living lowered, the nation falls to
subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table can
be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system ...
it is clear that even if it is because of production in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their work needs
that people unite to secure their rights, their union remains a
constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it is impossible
to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school in
this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and women,
organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a better life.
.... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon Johnson
Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought
justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group in
America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do something
about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the country works
harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965

A few thoughts for those...
 

On Jun 30, 12:05*pm, HK wrote:
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824

With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any
other organization that ever existed. They have done more for decency,
for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the
developing of character in man, than the other association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909

Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner

The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our democracy..
William Cahn, labor authority and historian

We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But our
workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their labor.
They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use their labor
at a return adequate to support them at a decent and constantly rising
standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of security against the
inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936

If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be to
join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt

The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been labor's
weapon of progress in the century of our industrial civilization. Where
the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced to a state of
medieval peonage, the standard of living lowered, the nation falls to
subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935

The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman

Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II

There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table can
be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther

In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system ...
it is clear that even if it is because of production in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their work needs
that people unite to secure their rights, their union remains a
constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it is impossible
to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II

The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school in
this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and women,
organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a better life.
... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon Johnson
Administration

Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought
justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962

The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group in
America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do something
about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the country works
harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965

Yet you belittle, ridicule, and insult just about every person who's
ever made a living providing labor. Right here in this newsgroup
you've belittle "septic tank pumpers", ditch diggers, military
personnel, ex police officers, and on and on.

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any
other organization that ever existed. They have done more for decency, for
honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the developing
of character in man, than the other association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But our
workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their labor.
They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use their labor at
a return adequate to support them at a decent and constantly rising
standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of security against the
inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be to
join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been labor's
weapon of progress in the century of our industrial civilization. Where
the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced to a state of medieval
peonage, the standard of living lowered, the nation falls to subsistence
level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread box,
and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table can be
taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the fact
that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system ... it is
clear that even if it is because of production in any social system ... it
is clear that even if it is because of their work needs that people unite
to secure their rights, their union remains a constructive factor of
social order and solidarity, and it is impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school in
this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and women,
organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a better life.
... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon Johnson
Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought justice
and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group in
America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do something
about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the country works
harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965

Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an agreement
entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.

A few thoughts for those...
 

HK wrote:
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any
other organization that ever existed. They have done more for decency,
for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the
developing of character in man, than the other association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But our
workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their labor.
They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use their labor
at a return adequate to support them at a decent and constantly rising
standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of security against the
inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be to
join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been labor's
weapon of progress in the century of our industrial civilization. Where
the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced to a state of
medieval peonage, the standard of living lowered, the nation falls to
subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table can
be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system ...
it is clear that even if it is because of production in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their work needs
that people unite to secure their rights, their union remains a
constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it is impossible
to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school in
this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and women,
organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a better life.
... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon Johnson
Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought
justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group in
America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do something
about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the country works
harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965

I think I'm going to vomit.

A few thoughts for those...
 

D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any
other organization that ever existed. They have done more for decency, for
honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the developing
of character in man, than the other association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But our
workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their labor.
They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use their labor at
a return adequate to support them at a decent and constantly rising
standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of security against the
inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be to
join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been labor's
weapon of progress in the century of our industrial civilization. Where
the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced to a state of medieval
peonage, the standard of living lowered, the nation falls to subsistence
level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread box,
and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table can be
taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the fact
that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system ... it is
clear that even if it is because of production in any social system ... it
is clear that even if it is because of their work needs that people unite
to secure their rights, their union remains a constructive factor of
social order and solidarity, and it is impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school in
this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and women,
organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a better life.
... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon Johnson
Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought justice
and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group in
America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do something
about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the country works
harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965

Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an agreement
entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.




The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their quality
and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that U.S.
automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most other
countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.

A few thoughts for those...
 

Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than ever
in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of jobs, and
the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits everywhere in the
country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to the same sort of
chattel they were in the 19th century.

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any
other organization that ever existed. They have done more for decency,
for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the
developing of character in man, than the other association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But our
workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their labor.
They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use their labor
at a return adequate to support them at a decent and constantly rising
standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of security against the
inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be to
join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been labor's
weapon of progress in the century of our industrial civilization. Where
the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced to a state of
medieval peonage, the standard of living lowered, the nation falls to
subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table can
be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system ...
it is clear that even if it is because of production in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their work needs
that people unite to secure their rights, their union remains a
constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it is impossible
to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school in
this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and women,
organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a better life.
... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon Johnson
Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought
justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group in
America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do something
about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the country works
harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965

Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an agreement
entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.


The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their quality
and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that U.S.
automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most other
countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.



So the job bank program is a good thing?

A few thoughts for those...
 

On Jun 30, 12:57*pm, HK wrote:
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....

Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than ever
in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of jobs, and
the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits everywhere in the
country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to the same sort of
chattel they were in the 19th century.

Too bad you chose to **** on your brethren and buy a Japanese made non
union vehicle, huh?

A few thoughts for those...
 

D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any
other organization that ever existed. They have done more for decency,
for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the
developing of character in man, than the other association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But our
workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their labor.
They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use their labor
at a return adequate to support them at a decent and constantly rising
standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of security against the
inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be to
join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been labor's
weapon of progress in the century of our industrial civilization. Where
the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced to a state of
medieval peonage, the standard of living lowered, the nation falls to
subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table can
be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system ...
it is clear that even if it is because of production in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their work needs
that people unite to secure their rights, their union remains a
constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it is impossible
to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school in
this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and women,
organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a better life.
... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon Johnson
Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought
justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group in
America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do something
about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the country works
harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an agreement
entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.

The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their quality
and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that U.S.
automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most other
countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.



So the job bank program is a good thing?




You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same sorts
of protections provided to them by their governments, just as their
governments make sure that all workers and their families have access to
health insurance/coverage.

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than ever
in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of jobs, and
the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits everywhere in the
country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to the same sort of
chattel they were in the 19th century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member. Don't
bother a business owner or manager.

A few thoughts for those...
 

On Jun 30, 1:06*pm, HK wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
om...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
news:9IudnZpHIPBJqtfXnZ2dnUVZ_gNi4p2d@earthlink .com...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824

With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any
other organization that ever existed. They have done more for decency,
for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the
developing of character in man, than the other association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909

Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner

The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian

We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But our
workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their labor.

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than
any other organization that ever existed. They have done more for
decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race,
for the developing of character in man, than the other association of
men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But
our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their
labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use
their labor at a return adequate to support them at a decent and
constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of
security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be
to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced
to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living lowered, the
nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table
can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system
... it is clear that even if it is because of production in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their work needs
that people unite to secure their rights, their union remains a
constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it is
impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school
in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and
women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a
better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought
justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group
in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do
something about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the
country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.

The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their quality
and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that U.S.
automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most other
countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.



So the job bank program is a good thing?


You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same sorts of
protections provided to them by their governments, just as their
governments make sure that all workers and their families have access to
health insurance/coverage.

Yes, I am aware. Are they good programs? Do they help promote self
improvement?

A few thoughts for those...
 

Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than
ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of
jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits
everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to
the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member. Don't
bother a business owner or manager.



Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than ever
in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of jobs, and
the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits everywhere in the
country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to the same sort of
chattel they were in the 19th century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member. Don't
bother a business owner or manager.



Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.

A few thoughts for those...
 

D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than
any other organization that ever existed. They have done more for
decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race,
for the developing of character in man, than the other association of
men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But
our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their
labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use
their labor at a return adequate to support them at a decent and
constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of
security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be
to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced
to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living lowered, the
nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table
can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system
... it is clear that even if it is because of production in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their work needs
that people unite to secure their rights, their union remains a
constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it is
impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school
in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and
women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a
better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought
justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group
in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do
something about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the
country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.
The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their quality
and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that U.S.
automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most other
countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.


So the job bank program is a good thing?

You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same sorts of
protections provided to them by their governments, just as their
governments make sure that all workers and their families have access to
health insurance/coverage.

Yes, I am aware. Are they good programs? Do they help promote self
improvement?



I haven't studied it, but I do know of several union members who weren't
able to work at their trades and used government stipends to learn new
ones. So, in response to your question, I'd say they can promote
self-improvement.

A few thoughts for those...
 

Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than
ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of
jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits
everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to
the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member.
Don't bother a business owner or manager.



Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.


I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union members.
In fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project that I got
from union members.

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than
any other organization that ever existed. They have done more for
decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race,
for the developing of character in man, than the other association
of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution
been confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has
been fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But
our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their
labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use
their labor at a return adequate to support them at a decent and
constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of
security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be
to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is
reduced to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living
lowered, the nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and
is sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right
to join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table
can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of
the fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of production in
any social system ... it is clear that even if it is because of
their work needs that people unite to secure their rights, their
union remains a constructive factor of social order and solidarity,
and it is impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every
school in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free
men and women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to
make a better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have
raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits.
Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have
brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other)
group in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to
do something about wages and hours for its own people. No group in
the country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.
The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their
quality and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that
U.S. automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most
other countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.


So the job bank program is a good thing?

You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same sorts
of protections provided to them by their governments, just as their
governments make sure that all workers and their families have access to
health insurance/coverage.

Yes, I am aware. Are they good programs? Do they help promote self
improvement?

I haven't studied it, but I do know of several union members who weren't
able to work at their trades and used government stipends to learn new
ones. So, in response to your question, I'd say they can promote
self-improvement.


No government "stipends" here. 95% pay for doing in a lot of cases,
essentially nothing.

A few thoughts for those...
 

D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than
any other organization that ever existed. They have done more for
decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race,
for the developing of character in man, than the other association
of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution
been confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has
been fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But
our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their
labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use
their labor at a return adequate to support them at a decent and
constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of
security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be
to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is
reduced to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living
lowered, the nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and
is sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right
to join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table
can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of
the fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of production in
any social system ... it is clear that even if it is because of
their work needs that people unite to secure their rights, their
union remains a constructive factor of social order and solidarity,
and it is impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every
school in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free
men and women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to
make a better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have
raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits.
Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have
brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other)
group in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to
do something about wages and hours for its own people. No group in
the country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.
The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their
quality and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that
U.S. automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most
other countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.

So the job bank program is a good thing?
You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same sorts
of protections provided to them by their governments, just as their
governments make sure that all workers and their families have access to
health insurance/coverage.
Yes, I am aware. Are they good programs? Do they help promote self
improvement?
I haven't studied it, but I do know of several union members who weren't
able to work at their trades and used government stipends to learn new
ones. So, in response to your question, I'd say they can promote
self-improvement.


No government "stipends" here. 95% pay for doing in a lot of cases,
essentially nothing.



That was the method the automakers negotiated with the unions for the
"privilege" of massive work force reductions. It would have been smarter
to retrain the laid-off workers for other jobs, but, of course, that's
not the American way. We discard workers, and in the auto industry, the
corporations pay for the right.

A few thoughts for those...
 

On Jun 30, 1:41*pm, HK wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
om...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
news:5o2dnfkHiNiP29fXnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@earthlink .com...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
news:QqGdnWaoKtmi3NfXnZ2dnUVZ_gti4p2d@earthli nk.com...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
news:9IudnZpHIPBJqtfXnZ2dnUVZ_gNi4p2d@earth link.com...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes..
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824

With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than
any other organization that ever existed. They have done more for
decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race,
for the developing of character in man, than the other association
of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909

Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner

The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution
been confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has
been fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian

We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But
our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their
labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use
their labor at a return adequate to support them at a decent and
constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of
security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936

If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be
to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt

The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is
reduced to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living
lowered, the nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935

The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and
is sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman

Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right
to join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II

There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table
can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther

In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of
the fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of production in
any social system ... it is clear that even if it is because of
their work needs that people unite to secure their rights, their
union remains a constructive factor of social order and solidarity,
and it is impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II

The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every
school in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free
men and women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to
make a better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration

Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have
raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits.
Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have
brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962

The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other)
group in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to
do something about wages and hours for its own people. No group in
the country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. *Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.
The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their
quality and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that
U.S. automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most
other countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.

So the job bank program is a good thing?
You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same sorts
of protections provided to them by their governments, just as their
governments make sure that all workers and their families have access to
health insurance/coverage.
Yes, I am aware. *Are they good programs? *Do they help promote self
improvement?
I haven't studied it, but I do know of several union members who weren't
able to work at their trades and used government stipends to learn new
ones. So, in response to your question, I'd say they can promote
self-improvement.

No government "stipends" here. *95% pay for doing in a lot of cases,
essentially nothing.

That was the method the automakers negotiated with the unions for the
"privilege" of massive work force reductions. It would have been smarter
to retrain the laid-off workers for other jobs, but, of course, that's
not the American way. We discard workers, and in the auto industry, the
corporations pay for the right.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why should the average tax payer have to pay to retrain anybody?
Should we also bear the burden of their children's college costs? What
if the wife decided to re-enter the workforce, do we pay for her new
education? When does it end?

A few thoughts for those...
 

On Jun 30, 1:45*pm, Loogypicker wrote:
On Jun 30, 1:41*pm, HK wrote:



D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
om...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
news:5o2dnfkHiNiP29fXnZ2dnUVZ_hxi4p2d@earthlink .com...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
news:QqGdnWaoKtmi3NfXnZ2dnUVZ_gti4p2d@earthli nk.com...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
news:9IudnZpHIPBJqtfXnZ2dnUVZ_gNi4p2d@earth link.com...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824

With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than
any other organization that ever existed. They have done more for
decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race,
for the developing of character in man, than the other association
of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909

Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner

The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution
been confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has
been fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian

We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But
our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their
labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use
their labor at a return adequate to support them at a decent and
constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of
security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936

If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be
to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt

The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is
reduced to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living
lowered, the nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935

The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and
is sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman

Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right
to join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II

There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table
can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther

In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of
the fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of production in
any social system ... it is clear that even if it is because of
their work needs that people unite to secure their rights, their
union remains a constructive factor of social order and solidarity,
and it is impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II

The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every
school in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free
men and women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to
make a better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration

Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have
raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits.
Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have
brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962

The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other)
group in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to
do something about wages and hours for its own people. No group in
the country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. *Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.
The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their
quality and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that
U.S. automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most
other countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.

So the job bank program is a good thing?
You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same sorts
of protections provided to them by their governments, just as their
governments make sure that all workers and their families have access to
health insurance/coverage.
Yes, I am aware. *Are they good programs? *Do they help promote self
improvement?
I haven't studied it, but I do know of several union members who weren't
able to work at their trades and used government stipends to learn new
ones. So, in response to your question, I'd say they can promote
self-improvement.

No government "stipends" here. *95% pay for doing in a lot of cases,
essentially nothing.

That was the method the automakers negotiated with the unions for the
"privilege" of massive work force reductions. It would have been smarter
to retrain the laid-off workers for other jobs, but, of course, that's
not the American way. We discard workers, and in the auto industry, the
corporations pay for the right.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why should the average tax payer have to pay to retrain anybody?
Should we also bear the burden of their children's college costs? What
if the wife decided to re-enter the workforce, do we pay for her new
education? When does it end?

Fire em all and buy robots.

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the
lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than
ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of
jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits
everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to
the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member. Don't
bother a business owner or manager.



Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.


I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union members. In
fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project that I got from
union members.

That's a job from a union organization's management. Big difference. Did
they require you to show your union membership?

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than
any other organization that ever existed. They have done more for
decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race,
for the developing of character in man, than the other association of
men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But
our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their
labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use
their labor at a return adequate to support them at a decent and
constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of
security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be
to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced
to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living lowered, the
nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table
can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system
... it is clear that even if it is because of production in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their work needs
that people unite to secure their rights, their union remains a
constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it is
impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school
in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and
women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a
better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought
justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group
in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do
something about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the
country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.

The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their quality
and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that U.S.
automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most other
countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.



So the job bank program is a good thing?


You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same sorts of
protections provided to them by their governments, just as their
governments make sure that all workers and their families have access to
health insurance/coverage.




So the job bank program is a good thing?

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the
lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than
ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of
jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits
everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to
the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member. Don't
bother a business owner or manager.



Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.


I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union members. In
fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project that I got from
union members.

That is because you suck the union teat. Take from the working members.
And seeing your "writing" here, they are overpaying you whatever your
salary.

A few thoughts for those...
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than
any other organization that ever existed. They have done more for
decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race,
for the developing of character in man, than the other association of
men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution
been confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has
been fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But
our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their
labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use
their labor at a return adequate to support them at a decent and
constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of
security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be
to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is
reduced to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living
lowered, the nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and
is sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right
to join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table
can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system
... it is clear that even if it is because of production in any
social system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their
work needs that people unite to secure their rights, their union
remains a constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it
is impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school
in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and
women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a
better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have
raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits.
Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have
brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group
in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do
something about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the
country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.

The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their
quality and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that
U.S. automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most
other countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.



So the job bank program is a good thing?


You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same sorts
of protections provided to them by their governments, just as their
governments make sure that all workers and their families have access to
health insurance/coverage.




So the job bank program is a good thing?


He won't answer.

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity
than any other organization that ever existed. They have done more
for decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the
race, for the developing of character in man, than the other
association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of
its working people and their organizations. Nor has this
contribution been confined to raising wages and bettering work
conditions; it has been fundamental to almost every effort to
extend and strengthen our democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property.
But our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for
their labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity
to use their labor at a return adequate to support them at a
decent and constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate
a margin of security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would
be to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is
reduced to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living
lowered, the nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today
and is sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the
right to join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied
Supreme Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the
bread box, and what the union fights for and wins at the
bargaining table can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of
the fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of production in
any social system ... it is clear that even if it is because of
their work needs that people unite to secure their rights, their
union remains a constructive factor of social order and
solidarity, and it is impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every
school in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free
men and women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to
make a better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have
raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits.
Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have
brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other)
group in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try
to do something about wages and hours for its own people. No group
in the country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.
The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their
quality and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that
U.S. automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In
most other countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.

So the job bank program is a good thing?
You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same
sorts of protections provided to them by their governments, just as
their governments make sure that all workers and their families have
access to health insurance/coverage.
Yes, I am aware. Are they good programs? Do they help promote self
improvement?
I haven't studied it, but I do know of several union members who weren't
able to work at their trades and used government stipends to learn new
ones. So, in response to your question, I'd say they can promote
self-improvement.


No government "stipends" here. 95% pay for doing in a lot of cases,
essentially nothing.

That was the method the automakers negotiated with the unions for the
"privilege" of massive work force reductions. It would have been smarter
to retrain the laid-off workers for other jobs, but, of course, that's not
the American way. We discard workers, and in the auto industry, the
corporations pay for the right.

What "other" jobs? I'm not disputing it wasn't negotiated. I was a lousy
plan formed by lousy union and management officials.

A few thoughts for those...
 

Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the
lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more
than ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the
exporting of jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe
benefits everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being
reduced to the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member.
Don't bother a business owner or manager.



Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.


I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union
members. In fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project
that I got from union members.

That's a job from a union organization's management. Big difference. Did
they require you to show your union membership?





Hehehe. Poor Lu. For the most part, "a union organization's management"
*is* comprised of union members.

A few thoughts for those...
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:
While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the
lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....

Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than
ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of
jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits
everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to
the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.
Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member. Don't
bother a business owner or manager.


Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.
There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.

I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union members. In
fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project that I got from
union members.

That is because you suck the union teat. Take from the working members.
And seeing your "writing" here, they are overpaying you whatever your
salary.




As if you would have a clue. You're the guy who hires illegals from the
shape-up lot.

A few thoughts for those...
 

D.Duck wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than
any other organization that ever existed. They have done more for
decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race,
for the developing of character in man, than the other association of
men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution
been confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has
been fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our
democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But
our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their
labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use
their labor at a return adequate to support them at a decent and
constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of
security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be
to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is
reduced to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living
lowered, the nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and
is sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right
to join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table
can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system
... it is clear that even if it is because of production in any
social system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their
work needs that people unite to secure their rights, their union
remains a constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it
is impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school
in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and
women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a
better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have
raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits.
Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have
brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group
in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do
something about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the
country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.
The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their
quality and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that
U.S. automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In most
other countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.


So the job bank program is a good thing?

You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same sorts
of protections provided to them by their governments, just as their
governments make sure that all workers and their families have access to
health insurance/coverage.



So the job bank program is a good thing?


He won't answer.



I don't have any problems with the general concept.

A few thoughts for those...
 

D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity
than any other organization that ever existed. They have done more
for decency, for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the
race, for the developing of character in man, than the other
association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of
its working people and their organizations. Nor has this
contribution been confined to raising wages and bettering work
conditions; it has been fundamental to almost every effort to
extend and strengthen our democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property.
But our workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for
their labor. They deserve practical protection in the opportunity
to use their labor at a return adequate to support them at a
decent and constantly rising standard of living, and to accumulate
a margin of security against the inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would
be to join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been
labor's weapon of progress in the century of our industrial
civilization. Where the strike has been abolished ... labor is
reduced to a state of medieval peonage, the standard of living
lowered, the nation falls to subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today
and is sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the
right to join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied
Supreme Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the
bread box, and what the union fights for and wins at the
bargaining table can be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of
the fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of production in
any social system ... it is clear that even if it is because of
their work needs that people unite to secure their rights, their
union remains a constructive factor of social order and
solidarity, and it is impossible to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every
school in this land. America is a living testimonial to what free
men and women, organized in free democratic trade unions can do to
make a better life. ... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon
Johnson Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have
raised wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits.
Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have
brought justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other)
group in America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try
to do something about wages and hours for its own people. No group
in the country works harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965
Here's some reading on the "job bank" program. Granted it's an
agreement entered into by both management and labor.

Sure doesn't /didn't help the cost of cars.
The problem with American cars hasn't been their cost, but their
quality and lately their gas mileage, and, of course, the fact that
U.S. automakers pay for the health insurance of their workers. In
most other countries, that cost is borne by all taxpayers.

So the job bank program is a good thing?
You are aware that workers in many modern countries have the same
sorts of protections provided to them by their governments, just as
their governments make sure that all workers and their families have
access to health insurance/coverage.
Yes, I am aware. Are they good programs? Do they help promote self
improvement?
I haven't studied it, but I do know of several union members who weren't
able to work at their trades and used government stipends to learn new
ones. So, in response to your question, I'd say they can promote
self-improvement.

No government "stipends" here. 95% pay for doing in a lot of cases,
essentially nothing.
That was the method the automakers negotiated with the unions for the
"privilege" of massive work force reductions. It would have been smarter
to retrain the laid-off workers for other jobs, but, of course, that's not
the American way. We discard workers, and in the auto industry, the
corporations pay for the right.

What "other" jobs? I'm not disputing it wasn't negotiated. I was a lousy
plan formed by lousy union and management officials.





What other jobs, indeed. This is America...the concept of "other jobs"
doesn't exist in a society that discards workers.

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the
lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be
had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than
ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of
jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits
everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to
the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member.
Don't bother a business owner or manager.



Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.


I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union members.
In fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project that I got
from union members.

That's a job from a union organization's management. Big difference. Did
they require you to show your union membership?





Hehehe. Poor Lu. For the most part, "a union organization's management"
*is* comprised of union members.

You are the one that doesn't get it. Unions have bureaucracies, just like
private and public organizations. When you say you got a contract from a
union, it wasn't awarded by a single member; instead, it was awarded by a
bureaucracy, i.e. management.

Chances are, individual members of the union you are prostituting for would
hope for a better return on their investment, aka union dues.

Why quibble further? We will never agree. Get help. Please.

A few thoughts for those...
 

Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve
the lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting
quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be
had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more
than ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the
exporting of jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe
benefits everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are
being reduced to the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th
century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member.
Don't bother a business owner or manager.



Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.


I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union
members. In fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project
that I got from union members.

That's a job from a union organization's management. Big difference.
Did they require you to show your union membership?





Hehehe. Poor Lu. For the most part, "a union organization's
management" *is* comprised of union members.

You are the one that doesn't get it. Unions have bureaucracies, just
like private and public organizations. When you say you got a contract
from a union, it wasn't awarded by a single member; instead, it was
awarded by a bureaucracy, i.e. management.

Chances are, individual members of the union you are prostituting for
would hope for a better return on their investment, aka union dues.

Why quibble further? We will never agree. Get help. Please.


This is rich: *you* are explaining how unions work to me. As a matter
of fact, *almost all* the union contracts I have enjoyed in my work life
*have* been awarded by a single member of the various unions.

In fact, the *new* contract I am starting on shortly was also *awarded*
by an individual, who told my contact to "give *that* contract to Krause."

Of course, your comments on the quality of work I provide my clients are
also borne of your ignorance. You haven't a clue.

A few thoughts for those...
 

On Jun 30, 4:13*pm, HK wrote:
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
om...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
news:98udnbqr2qZL0dfXnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@earthlink .com...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
news:98udnb6r2qYB19fXnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@earthli nk.com...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
news:gLGdnQ1rgd513tfXnZ2dnUVZ_rOdnZ2d@earth link.com...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve
the lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting
quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be
had.....

Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more
than ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the
exporting of jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe
benefits everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are
being reduced to the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th
century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member.
Don't bother a business owner or manager.

Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.

I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union
members. In fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project
that I got from union members.

That's a job from a union organization's management. Big difference.
Did they require you to show your union membership?

Hehehe. Poor Lu. For the most part, "a union organization's
management" *is* comprised of union members.

You are the one that doesn't get it. Unions have bureaucracies, just
like private and public organizations. When you say you got a contract
from a union, it wasn't awarded by a single member; instead, it was
awarded by a bureaucracy, i.e. management.

Chances are, individual members of the union you are prostituting for
would hope for a better return on their investment, aka union dues.

Why quibble further? We will never agree. Get help. Please.

This is rich: **you* are explaining how unions work to me. As a matter
of fact, *almost all* the union contracts I have enjoyed in my work life
*have* been awarded by a single member of the various unions.

In fact, the *new* contract I am starting on shortly was also *awarded*
by an individual, who told my contact to "give *that* contract to Krause."

Great, nothing like being closed minded to new and refreshing ideas
from someone else, huh? No damned wonder the unions are driving work
to other countries.

Of course, your comments on the quality of work I provide my clients are
also borne of your ignorance. You haven't a clue.- Hide quoted text -


Hell Harry, you do that to everyone here.
- Show quoted text -

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:
While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the
lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be
had.....

Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than
ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of
jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits
everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced to
the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.
Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member.
Don't bother a business owner or manager.


Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.
There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.

I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union members.
In fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project that I got
from union members.

That is because you suck the union teat. Take from the working members.
And seeing your "writing" here, they are overpaying you whatever your
salary.


As if you would have a clue. You're the guy who hires illegals from the
shape-up lot.

Prove it, you acknowledged teller of non truth.

A few thoughts for those...
 

On Jun 30, 11:05*am, HK wrote:
...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


Very true, Herr Krause. Mr. Webster knew that work was a fair gain,
while deadbeats and leeches were a drain on society.

A few thoughts for those...
 

HK wrote:
....whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

Labor is the great producer of wealth: it moves all other causes.
Congressman Daniel Webster, 4/2/1824


With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any
other organization that ever existed. They have done more for decency,
for honesty, for education, for the betterment of the race, for the
developing of character in man, than the other association of men.
Clarence Darrow, The Railroad Trainman, 1909


Without labor nothing prospers.
Popular banner


The history of America has been largely created by the deeds of its
working people and their organizations. Nor has this contribution been
confined to raising wages and bettering work conditions; it has been
fundamental to almost every effort to extend and strengthen our democracy.
William Cahn, labor authority and historian



We insist that labor is entitled to as much respect as property. But our
workers with hand and brain deserve more than respect for their labor.
They deserve practical protection in the opportunity to use their labor
at a return adequate to support them at a decent and constantly rising
standard of living, and to accumulate a margin of security against the
inevitable vicissitudes of life.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt, fireside chat, 1936



If I were a worker in a factory, the first thing I would do would be to
join a union.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt



The first thing a dictator does is abolish the free press. Next he
abolishes the right of labor to go on strike. Strikes have been labor's
weapon of progress in the century of our industrial civilization. Where
the strike has been abolished ... labor is reduced to a state of
medieval peonage, the standard of living lowered, the nation falls to
subsistence level.
George Seldes, Freedom of the Press, 1935


The right to join a union of one's choice is unquestioned today and is
sanctioned and protected by law.
President Harry S. Truman


Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to
join the union of their choice.
President Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961), general and Allied Supreme
Commander in World War II



There's s a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread
box, and what the union fights for and wins at the bargaining table can
be taken away in the legislative halls.
Walter Reuther


In light of this fundamental structure of all work... in light of the
fact that, labor and capital are indispensable in any social system ...
it is clear that even if it is because of production in any social
system ... it is clear that even if it is because of their work needs
that people unite to secure their rights, their union remains a
constructive factor of social order and solidarity, and it is impossible
to ignore it.
Pope John Paul II



The history of the labor movements needs to be taught in every school in
this land. America is a living testimonial to what free men and women,
organized in free democratic trade unions can do to make a better life.
.... We ought to be proud of it!
Vice President Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. (1865-1969), Lyndon Johnson
Administration


Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised
wages, shortened hours, and provided supplemental benefits. Through
collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought
justice and democracy to the shop floor.
President John F. Kennedy, 1962


The AFL-CIO has done more good for more people than any (other) group in
America in its legislative efforts. It doesn't just try to do something
about wages and hours for its own people. No group in the country works
harder in the interests of everyone.
President Lyndon Johnson, 1965

My calendar says it's 2009, WAFA.

A few thoughts for those...
 

HK wrote:
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the
lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more than
ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the exporting of
jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe benefits
everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being reduced
to the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member.
Don't bother a business owner or manager.



Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.


I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union members.
In fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project that I got
from union members.

Spin control for Ullico's real estate disaster?

A few thoughts for those...
 

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:

While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the
lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting
quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be
had.....


Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more
than ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the
exporting of jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe
benefits everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being
reduced to the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.

Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member.
Don't bother a business owner or manager.



Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.

There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.


I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union
members. In fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project
that I got from union members.

That's a job from a union organization's management. Big difference.
Did they require you to show your union membership?





Hehehe. Poor Lu. For the most part, "a union organization's management"
*is* comprised of union members.

You are the one that doesn't get it. Unions have bureaucracies, just like
private and public organizations. When you say you got a contract from a
union, it wasn't awarded by a single member; instead, it was awarded by a
bureaucracy, i.e. management.

Chances are, individual members of the union you are prostituting for
would hope for a better return on their investment, aka union dues.

Why quibble further? We will never agree. Get help. Please.


This is rich: *you* are explaining how unions work to me. As a matter of
fact, *almost all* the union contracts I have enjoyed in my work life
*have* been awarded by a single member of the various unions.

In fact, the *new* contract I am starting on shortly was also *awarded* by
an individual, who told my contact to "give *that* contract to Krause."

Of course, your comments on the quality of work I provide my clients are
also borne of your ignorance. You haven't a clue.


No bidding process?

A few thoughts for those...
 

D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:
While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve the
lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting
quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be
had.....

Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed more
than ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism, the
exporting of jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for fringe
benefits everywhere in the country. Workers of all sorts are being
reduced to the same sort of chattel they were in the 19th century.
Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union member.
Don't bother a business owner or manager.


Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.
There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.

I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union
members. In fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new project
that I got from union members.
That's a job from a union organization's management. Big difference.
Did they require you to show your union membership?




Hehehe. Poor Lu. For the most part, "a union organization's management"
*is* comprised of union members.
You are the one that doesn't get it. Unions have bureaucracies, just like
private and public organizations. When you say you got a contract from a
union, it wasn't awarded by a single member; instead, it was awarded by a
bureaucracy, i.e. management.

Chances are, individual members of the union you are prostituting for
would hope for a better return on their investment, aka union dues.

Why quibble further? We will never agree. Get help. Please.

This is rich: *you* are explaining how unions work to me. As a matter of
fact, *almost all* the union contracts I have enjoyed in my work life
*have* been awarded by a single member of the various unions.

In fact, the *new* contract I am starting on shortly was also *awarded* by
an individual, who told my contact to "give *that* contract to Krause."

Of course, your comments on the quality of work I provide my clients are
also borne of your ignorance. You haven't a clue.


No bidding process?




Uh, no. I'm not selling "printing" or "office supplies."

A few thoughts for those...
 

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:46:27 -0500, Eddie
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:


I have a little experience with unions.
I was a police officer with a union that was *state wide*
The union? SHOPO, in Hawaii. I was an officer with the Honolulu
dep't. I handled between 8 and 10 cases a *day* both felonies and
misdemeanors plus infractions and accidents.
The same cop in Hana, Maui, who handled maybe two cases a month, none
being felonies, made the exact pay I did. Why? Because when it was
time for a new contract, Honolulu county would agree to a 12% pay
hike. But Maui county did not have the tax base like Honolulu, so
they could only agree to 2% pay raise. What did we get? 2% of
course.
Currently HPD, one of the largest police departments in the nation is
also the lowest paid. I think they start out at around $30K a year.
Local departments here in N. CA start out around $75K. And the cost
of living is about 25% higher in Hawaii than in Ca.
Fast forward to CA. I work for a transit company in San Jose. The
union is ok, good salary, benefits, etc. But we are rewarded not on
merit but on seniority. There are drivers that should not be drivers
but because of seniority they retain their jobs.
Eddie

You are providing HK way too much personal information.
--
John H

"A government policy to rob Peter to pay Paul can be assured of the support of Paul."
-- George Bernard Shaw

A few thoughts for those...
 

HK wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:39 -0400, HK
wrote:

...whose lives are easier now because of the labor movement:
While I concede that the labor movement did, indeed, improve
the lives
of some Americans, it can't go unnoticed that the supporting
quotes
are at least 40 and most cases 50-100+ years old.

I think, for the astute, there is a realization there to be
had.....

Yeah, that today, a strong labor union movement is needed
more than ever in the face of internationalism, corporatism,
the exporting of jobs, and the elimination of hard-fought-for
fringe benefits everywhere in the country. Workers of all
sorts are being reduced to the same sort of chattel they were
in the 19th century.
Bull! Next tine you want a job, ask for one from a union
member. Don't bother a business owner or manager.


Poor Lu. Dumb as a post. Again.
There you go. Attack the messenger, never the message. Again.

I've never had the slightest problem obtaining work from union
members. In fact, next month I'm starting up an entirely new
project that I got from union members.
That's a job from a union organization's management. Big
difference. Did they require you to show your union membership?




Hehehe. Poor Lu. For the most part, "a union organization's
management" *is* comprised of union members.
You are the one that doesn't get it. Unions have bureaucracies, just
like private and public organizations. When you say you got a
contract from a union, it wasn't awarded by a single member;
instead, it was awarded by a bureaucracy, i.e. management.

Chances are, individual members of the union you are prostituting
for would hope for a better return on their investment, aka union dues.

Why quibble further? We will never agree. Get help. Please.

This is rich: *you* are explaining how unions work to me. As a
matter of fact, *almost all* the union contracts I have enjoyed in my
work life *have* been awarded by a single member of the various unions.

In fact, the *new* contract I am starting on shortly was also
*awarded* by an individual, who told my contact to "give *that*
contract to Krause."

Of course, your comments on the quality of work I provide my clients
are also borne of your ignorance. You haven't a clue.


No bidding process?



Uh, no. I'm not selling "printing" or "office supplies."
Just exactly what is it that you sell? Got any samples?