Canada is not a great example of same:

" With respect to patient’s rights, waiting times and availability of
pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom in the rankings.

Canada ranks dead last in the "Bang-for-the-Buck" index (Estonia is
first in the value-for-money-adjusted "Bang-for-the-Buck" index). "

http://tinyurl.com/mxq9ut


--
John H

"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money." --Margaret Thatcher

"John H" wrote in message
...
Canada is not a great example of same:

" With respect to patient's rights, waiting times and availability of
pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom in the rankings.

Canada ranks dead last in the "Bang-for-the-Buck" index (Estonia is
first in the value-for-money-adjusted "Bang-for-the-Buck" index). "

http://tinyurl.com/mxq9ut


--
John H


Well Johnny..we have a major handicap...living next door to the US.
We have to pay our doctors, specialists, nurses etc. well (by Canadian
standards) or they can easily pull up stakes and take their subsidized
educations and knowledge to the US for more money.
I wonder how the pay rates for Canada and some of the European countries
compare.
Also, when you had Reagan and we had Mulroney running our countries...the
big US drug companies were hounding us about our generic drugs.
At the time we only gave them a 7 year period to gouge the public before
generic companies could manufacture similar products.
After our 'conservative' government bowed to presssure and bribes (promises
to produce more brand name drugs here) our lackey gave in and changed the
protected time period to 15 years. This dramatically raised drug costs up
here....at who's benefit?

Don White wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
Canada is not a great example of same:

" With respect to patient's rights, waiting times and availability of
pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom in the rankings.

Canada ranks dead last in the "Bang-for-the-Buck" index (Estonia is
first in the value-for-money-adjusted "Bang-for-the-Buck" index). "

http://tinyurl.com/mxq9ut


--
John H


Well Johnny..we have a major handicap...living next door to the US.
We have to pay our doctors, specialists, nurses etc. well (by Canadian
standards) or they can easily pull up stakes and take their subsidized
educations and knowledge to the US for more money.
I wonder how the pay rates for Canada and some of the European countries
compare.
Also, when you had Reagan and we had Mulroney running our countries...the
big US drug companies were hounding us about our generic drugs.
At the time we only gave them a 7 year period to gouge the public before
generic companies could manufacture similar products.
After our 'conservative' government bowed to presssure and bribes (promises
to produce more brand name drugs here) our lackey gave in and changed the
protected time period to 15 years. This dramatically raised drug costs up
here....at who's benefit?




Please note the bang for the buck mentioned in Herring's post includes
only European countries and Canada, and not the USA, and most of those
European countries have socialized medicine. Over there, though, the
programs have evolved more than Canada's has. Thus, Herring's post is
specious.

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:47:48 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
.. .
Canada is not a great example of same:

" With respect to patient's rights, waiting times and availability of
pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom in the rankings.

Canada ranks dead last in the "Bang-for-the-Buck" index (Estonia is
first in the value-for-money-adjusted "Bang-for-the-Buck" index). "

http://tinyurl.com/mxq9ut


--
John H


Well Johnny..we have a major handicap...

I know. It's a damn shame.
--
John H

"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money." --Margaret Thatcher

Don White wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
Canada is not a great example of same:

" With respect to patient's rights, waiting times and availability of
pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom in the rankings.

Canada ranks dead last in the "Bang-for-the-Buck" index (Estonia is
first in the value-for-money-adjusted "Bang-for-the-Buck" index). "

http://tinyurl.com/mxq9ut


--
John H


Well Johnny..we have a major handicap...living next door to the US.
We have to pay our doctors, specialists, nurses etc. well (by Canadian
standards) or they can easily pull up stakes and take their subsidized
educations and knowledge to the US for more money.
I wonder how the pay rates for Canada and some of the European countries
compare.
Also, when you had Reagan and we had Mulroney running our countries...the
big US drug companies were hounding us about our generic drugs.
At the time we only gave them a 7 year period to gouge the public before
generic companies could manufacture similar products.
After our 'conservative' government bowed to presssure and bribes (promises
to produce more brand name drugs here) our lackey gave in and changed the
protected time period to 15 years. This dramatically raised drug costs up
here....at who's benefit?



The patient that needs that drug.

You continue to become increasingly dumber. Do you think new drugs just
appear out of thin air, dummy? What do you think it costs to bring a
new drug to market? Don't think too hard, we all know you are impaired.

On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:45:46 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:18:25 -0400, John H
wrote:

Canada is not a great example of same:

" With respect to patient’s rights, waiting times and availability of
pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom in the rankings.

Canada ranks dead last in the "Bang-for-the-Buck" index (Estonia is
first in the value-for-money-adjusted "Bang-for-the-Buck" index). "

http://tinyurl.com/mxq9ut



Socialized medicine may suck.... I have no personal experience. The US
has only ONE limited experiment in socialized medicine. It
administered by the "Department of Veterans Affairs." Anybody have
experience with this? Is it as bad as they say it is in Canada and
England?

I have had many occasions to get treatment at the VA hospital in Wash
DC. I have no gripes about the treatment I've recieved. The facility
and the promptness of care both improved greatly under the Bush
administration. But, they weren't bad before. Much of the VA griping
comes from liberals who've not used the facility.
--
John H

"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money." --Margaret Thatcher

On Sun, 31 May 2009 21:01:51 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:53:02 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:45:46 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:18:25 -0400, John H
wrote:

Canada is not a great example of same:

" With respect to patient’s rights, waiting times and availability of
pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom in the rankings.

Canada ranks dead last in the "Bang-for-the-Buck" index (Estonia is
first in the value-for-money-adjusted "Bang-for-the-Buck" index). "

http://tinyurl.com/mxq9ut



Socialized medicine may suck.... I have no personal experience. The US
has only ONE limited experiment in socialized medicine. It
administered by the "Department of Veterans Affairs." Anybody have
experience with this? Is it as bad as they say it is in Canada and
England?

I have had many occasions to get treatment at the VA hospital in Wash
DC. I have no gripes about the treatment I've recieved. The facility
and the promptness of care both improved greatly under the Bush
administration. But, they weren't bad before. Much of the VA griping
comes from liberals who've not used the facility.

Again, I have no horse in this race. I have 8 folks that report to
me..... and 7 are retired military. Most of them are not
complimentary. Maybe we should go to an all pay system... including
ex-military.

Ask them to show you their VA ID card. See if their are any words
written under the picture. Those can make a big difference in their
entitlements under VA.
--
John H

"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money." --Margaret Thatcher

On May 31, 8:45*pm, Gene wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:18:25 -0400, John H
wrote:

Canada is not a great example of same:

" *With respect to patient’s rights, waiting times and availability of
pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom in the rankings.

Canada ranks dead last in the "Bang-for-the-Buck" index (Estonia is
first in the value-for-money-adjusted "Bang-for-the-Buck" index). "

http://tinyurl.com/mxq9ut

Socialized medicine may suck.... I have no personal experience. The US
has only ONE limited experiment in socialized medicine. It
administered by the "Department of Veterans Affairs." Anybody have
experience with this? Is it as bad as they say it is in Canada and
England?
--

Forté Agent 5.00 Build 1171

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by
the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do.
So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover." * - Unknown

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm

Is it as bad as they say it is in Canada and England?

No, Herring is just trolling....again. Powered by rumour. Herring
believes everything he hears.

wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:45:46 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:18:25 -0400, John H
wrote:

Canada is not a great example of same:

" With respect to patient’s rights, waiting times and availability of
pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom in the rankings.

Canada ranks dead last in the "Bang-for-the-Buck" index (Estonia is
first in the value-for-money-adjusted "Bang-for-the-Buck" index). "

http://tinyurl.com/mxq9ut


Socialized medicine may suck.... I have no personal experience. The US
has only ONE limited experiment in socialized medicine. It
administered by the "Department of Veterans Affairs." Anybody have
experience with this? Is it as bad as they say it is in Canada and
England?


There is also Medicare but they are going broke taking 14% of every
wage earned in the country and only covering about 12% of the
population.


Interesting that no one pointed out the impossible load of bull****
Herring is trying to sell. The study in the survey compared Canada with
European countries, most of which have much more highly evolved
socialized medicine than does our neighbor to the north.


In 2008 the Health Consumer Powerhouse (HCP) and the Frontier Centre for
Public Policy presented the first Euro-Canada Health Consumer Index.
This marked the induction of Canada into a comprehensive benchmarking
exercise that analyzes the consumer responsiveness among 29 national
European healthcare systems.

The Euro-Canada Health Consumer Index (ECHCI) was an alarm bell, as it
showed that Canada was placed in the bottom quarter of the Index –
though it spent more money to achieve worse results than a large number
of European competitors. In specific:


- - -

• Canadians suffer from a healthcare system officially based on equity
and solidarity – but in reality it is a sub-standard one that ***denies
Canadian healthcare consumers many of the services taken for granted in
Europe***;

• Patient rights, access to information, and choice and services without
delay are underdeveloped in Canada and deliver low value for the money
spent;

• The positive part of the comparison is that the quality of treatment –
when delivered – puts Canada on par with most European countries.


- - -


(In other words, the problems up north are not with socialized medicine
but with Canada's implementation and operation of it)


The authors believe in the power of benchmarks. The lesson from the
HCP’s five years of healthcare benchmarking is that comparisons count.
Weak or excellent performances among the national healthcare systems are
highlighted as good examples. But to serve the intended purpose,
stakeholders must take action when the alarm bell rings.

The 2008 Index caused a stir within Canada. But that is far from enough.
Governments, patients and consumers now have a better foundation for
taking action. This year’s Index will provide additional fuel for that
fire as it confirms the poor cross-Atlantic position of Canada; 2008
evidently was no isolated poor score on Canada’s part.

Canada can ill-afford another lost year without closing the gap and the
question remains: why should Canadians be satisfied with a level of
(poor) care that is becoming outdated in Europe?

Executive Summary

In this second annual Euro-Canada Health Consumer Index (ECHCI), Canada
ends up in 23rd place. This year’s winner, the Netherlands, scores 824
points out of 1,000 edging out runner-up and last year’s winner,
Austria, by a margin of eleven points. Luxembourg and Denmark take third
and fourth place with 795 and 794 points, respectively.

In terms of medical outcomes, Canada compares reasonably well with the
best performing healthcare systems and on the generosity scale Canada
collects an average score. With respect to patient rights, waiting times
and availability of pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom
in the rankings.

Estonia prevails in the value-for-money-adjusted Bang-for-the-Buck
index, while placing 11th overall in the ECHCI Index and competing very
well with countries spending vastly more per capita on healthcare. Taken
together – Canada’s poor overall performance in the Index along with a
high expenditure on healthcare services – leads to Canada’s lastplace
ranking in the Bang-for-the-Buck index.

- - -


Nice try, Herring, but, as usual, you are full of ****.

Gene wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2009 21:11:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:45:46 -0400, Gene
wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 20:18:25 -0400, John H
wrote:

Canada is not a great example of same:

" With respect to patient’s rights, waiting times and availability of
pharmaceuticals Canada places at the absolute bottom in the rankings.

Canada ranks dead last in the "Bang-for-the-Buck" index (Estonia is
first in the value-for-money-adjusted "Bang-for-the-Buck" index). "

http://tinyurl.com/mxq9ut


Socialized medicine may suck.... I have no personal experience. The US
has only ONE limited experiment in socialized medicine. It
administered by the "Department of Veterans Affairs." Anybody have
experience with this? Is it as bad as they say it is in Canada and
England?

There is also Medicare but they are going broke taking 14% of every
wage earned in the country and only covering about 12% of the
population.

I would certainly agree, that math doesn't work.

I am a great believer in "cigar box" economics. I've been called
"ignorant," but the concept has never failed me.

Those, "more educated" have explained to me how wrong I am, the
nuances of the post-industrial economy. I still think they are idiots.

If you know me, either way, I can't lose! :-)

Get the lawyers and bureaucrats out of medicine and throw the bad
doctors out on their asses. Costs will come down. And make it a pay as
you go system. Everyone needs to pull some money out of their pocket and
pay for their medical care. For those who have sustained service related
injuries it is part of their contract with the government to have those
medical issues covered by the government.