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U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
A sad, sad news story:
May 12, 2009 U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq, Military Says By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS NY Times BAGHDAD — The United States military said Monday that five American soldiers had been shot to death by a fellow soldier who opened fire on them at one of the biggest American bases in Baghdad, and that the suspected shooter was in custody. The killings appeared to be the worst case of lethal non-combat casualties for the American forces in Iraq since the invasion more than six years ago. The shooting took place at around 2 p.m. local time at Camp Liberty, a sprawling base next to Baghdad airport, the military said in a statement. The names of the dead soldiers were being withheld pending family notification, the statement said. “Anytime we lose one of our own, it affects us all,” Col. John Robinson, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Iraq, said in the statement. CNN, citing unnamed officials, said that at least three others were wounded in the attack, which it said had taken place at a clinic for soldiers suffering from war stress. - - - It's still not clear the military establishment is taking seriously the mental health problems of service personnel serving ever-extended tours in Iraq and of service personnel not getting the help they need when they return home. *The military still attaches a stigma to those who seek help.* That has to stop, and until it does, whatever efforts the military establishment takes to help these service personnel will not be as effective as they need to be. I think I mentioned here a couple of weeks ago the military and the VA were engaging in a massive recruitment drive to get mental health professionals to enlist, and to find more civilians with whom contract arrangements can be established. Both, obviously, are needed. |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
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U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:45 -0400, HK wrote:
wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:58:39 -0400, HK wrote: A sad, sad news story: May 12, 2009 U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq, Military Says By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS NY Times BAGHDAD — The United States military said Monday that five American soldiers had been shot to death by a fellow soldier who opened fire on them at one of the biggest American bases in Baghdad, and that the suspected shooter was in custody. The killings appeared to be the worst case of lethal non-combat casualties for the American forces in Iraq since the invasion more than six years ago. The shooting took place at around 2 p.m. local time at Camp Liberty, a sprawling base next to Baghdad airport, the military said in a statement. The names of the dead soldiers were being withheld pending family notification, the statement said. “Anytime we lose one of our own, it affects us all,” Col. John Robinson, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Iraq, said in the statement. CNN, citing unnamed officials, said that at least three others were wounded in the attack, which it said had taken place at a clinic for soldiers suffering from war stress. - - - It's still not clear the military establishment is taking seriously the mental health problems of service personnel serving ever-extended tours in Iraq and of service personnel not getting the help they need when they return home. *The military still attaches a stigma to those who seek help.* That has to stop, and until it does, whatever efforts the military establishment takes to help these service personnel will not be as effective as they need to be. I think I mentioned here a couple of weeks ago the military and the VA were engaging in a massive recruitment drive to get mental health professionals to enlist, and to find more civilians with whom contract arrangements can be established. Both, obviously, are needed. Maybe we should take their guns away Despite what the righties here may think, I don't see anything humorous in this situation, not even "snarkily" humorous. In case you haven't noticed, the number of service personnel coming home from that war after extended stays and then getting involved in spouse shootings and suicides is way up, and this incident surely is part and parcel of that sort of emotional stress. It is an issue the military establishment has yet to address properly. The pentagon doesn't give a ****. These kids are just collateral, gun carrying, expedible meat. |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:03:47 -0700, jps wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:45 -0400, HK wrote: wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:58:39 -0400, HK wrote: A sad, sad news story: May 12, 2009 U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq, Military Says By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS NY Times BAGHDAD — The United States military said Monday that five American soldiers had been shot to death by a fellow soldier who opened fire on them at one of the biggest American bases in Baghdad, and that the suspected shooter was in custody. The killings appeared to be the worst case of lethal non-combat casualties for the American forces in Iraq since the invasion more than six years ago. The shooting took place at around 2 p.m. local time at Camp Liberty, a sprawling base next to Baghdad airport, the military said in a statement. The names of the dead soldiers were being withheld pending family notification, the statement said. “Anytime we lose one of our own, it affects us all,” Col. John Robinson, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Iraq, said in the statement. CNN, citing unnamed officials, said that at least three others were wounded in the attack, which it said had taken place at a clinic for soldiers suffering from war stress. - - - It's still not clear the military establishment is taking seriously the mental health problems of service personnel serving ever-extended tours in Iraq and of service personnel not getting the help they need when they return home. *The military still attaches a stigma to those who seek help.* That has to stop, and until it does, whatever efforts the military establishment takes to help these service personnel will not be as effective as they need to be. I think I mentioned here a couple of weeks ago the military and the VA were engaging in a massive recruitment drive to get mental health professionals to enlist, and to find more civilians with whom contract arrangements can be established. Both, obviously, are needed. Maybe we should take their guns away Despite what the righties here may think, I don't see anything humorous in this situation, not even "snarkily" humorous. In case you haven't noticed, the number of service personnel coming home from that war after extended stays and then getting involved in spouse shootings and suicides is way up, and this incident surely is part and parcel of that sort of emotional stress. It is an issue the military establishment has yet to address properly. The pentagon doesn't give a ****. These kids are just collateral, gun carrying, expedible meat. You've not one iota of an idea what you're talking about. You've reached Krause's level of absurdity. -- John H ************************** "That's not a *baby* kicking, beautiful bride, it's just a fetus you feel." (Harry Krause truism) |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
jps wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:45 -0400, HK wrote: wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:58:39 -0400, HK wrote: A sad, sad news story: May 12, 2009 U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq, Military Says By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS NY Times BAGHDAD — The United States military said Monday that five American soldiers had been shot to death by a fellow soldier who opened fire on them at one of the biggest American bases in Baghdad, and that the suspected shooter was in custody. The killings appeared to be the worst case of lethal non-combat casualties for the American forces in Iraq since the invasion more than six years ago. The shooting took place at around 2 p.m. local time at Camp Liberty, a sprawling base next to Baghdad airport, the military said in a statement. The names of the dead soldiers were being withheld pending family notification, the statement said. “Anytime we lose one of our own, it affects us all,” Col. John Robinson, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Iraq, said in the statement. CNN, citing unnamed officials, said that at least three others were wounded in the attack, which it said had taken place at a clinic for soldiers suffering from war stress. - - - It's still not clear the military establishment is taking seriously the mental health problems of service personnel serving ever-extended tours in Iraq and of service personnel not getting the help they need when they return home. *The military still attaches a stigma to those who seek help.* That has to stop, and until it does, whatever efforts the military establishment takes to help these service personnel will not be as effective as they need to be. I think I mentioned here a couple of weeks ago the military and the VA were engaging in a massive recruitment drive to get mental health professionals to enlist, and to find more civilians with whom contract arrangements can be established. Both, obviously, are needed. Maybe we should take their guns away Despite what the righties here may think, I don't see anything humorous in this situation, not even "snarkily" humorous. In case you haven't noticed, the number of service personnel coming home from that war after extended stays and then getting involved in spouse shootings and suicides is way up, and this incident surely is part and parcel of that sort of emotional stress. It is an issue the military establishment has yet to address properly. The pentagon doesn't give a ****. These kids are just collateral, gun carrying, expedible meat. Well, the attitudes are just part of the military establishment macho bull****. I think Obama will push the Pentagon in the right direction on this issue. I also aom convinced Bush and Cheney didn't give a **** and actually considered military personnel expendible meat. |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
wrote in message ... On Mon, 11 May 2009 12:58:39 -0400, HK wrote: A sad, sad news story: May 12, 2009 U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq, Military Says By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS NY Times BAGHDAD - The United States military said Monday that five American soldiers had been shot to death by a fellow soldier who opened fire on them at one of the biggest American bases in Baghdad, and that the suspected shooter was in custody. The killings appeared to be the worst case of lethal non-combat casualties for the American forces in Iraq since the invasion more than six years ago. The shooting took place at around 2 p.m. local time at Camp Liberty, a sprawling base next to Baghdad airport, the military said in a statement. The names of the dead soldiers were being withheld pending family notification, the statement said. "Anytime we lose one of our own, it affects us all," Col. John Robinson, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Iraq, said in the statement. CNN, citing unnamed officials, said that at least three others were wounded in the attack, which it said had taken place at a clinic for soldiers suffering from war stress. - - - It's still not clear the military establishment is taking seriously the mental health problems of service personnel serving ever-extended tours in Iraq and of service personnel not getting the help they need when they return home. *The military still attaches a stigma to those who seek help.* That has to stop, and until it does, whatever efforts the military establishment takes to help these service personnel will not be as effective as they need to be. I think I mentioned here a couple of weeks ago the military and the VA were engaging in a massive recruitment drive to get mental health professionals to enlist, and to find more civilians with whom contract arrangements can be established. Both, obviously, are needed. Maybe we should take their guns away Actually, maybe we should be screening for and treating PTSD. |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
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U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
HK wrote:
wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:45 -0400, HK wrote: Maybe we should take their guns away Despite what the righties here may think, I don't see anything humorous in this situation, not even "snarkily" humorous. In case you haven't noticed, the number of service personnel coming home from that war after extended stays and then getting involved in spouse shootings and suicides is way up, and this incident surely is part and parcel of that sort of emotional stress. It is an issue the military establishment has yet to address properly. Something like reinstate the draft? Increase the gene pool? I have no objection to reinstating the draft, so long as the only exemptions are for serious physical or emotional disabilities. Are you trying to tell us that's how you got temporarily wavered from the draft? I'd rather think you lied and cheated your way out. |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
wrote in message ... Maybe we should take their guns away Or certainly disqualify them from future postal worker union jobs. Not making light of a sad story, but it's a aberration, not a norm. More union postal workers have freaked out than active duty military. Harry presents the sad news as if it's a epidemic. Of course. Eisboch |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
"HK" wrote in message m... Well, the attitudes are just part of the military establishment macho bull****. I think Obama will push the Pentagon in the right direction on this issue. I also aom convinced Bush and Cheney didn't give a **** and actually considered military personnel expendible meat. Unbelievable. Eisboch |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:07:40 -0400, HK wrote:
wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:45 -0400, HK wrote: Maybe we should take their guns away Despite what the righties here may think, I don't see anything humorous in this situation, not even "snarkily" humorous. In case you haven't noticed, the number of service personnel coming home from that war after extended stays and then getting involved in spouse shootings and suicides is way up, and this incident surely is part and parcel of that sort of emotional stress. It is an issue the military establishment has yet to address properly. Something like reinstate the draft? Increase the gene pool? I have no objection to reinstating the draft, so long as the only exemptions are for serious physical or emotional disabilities. Women's lib and the draft are incompatable. Gonna fill half the Army with combat chicks? Won't ever happen. --Vic |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:39:02 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote: wrote in message .. . Maybe we should take their guns away Or certainly disqualify them from future postal worker union jobs. Not making light of a sad story, but it's a aberration, not a norm. More union postal workers have freaked out than active duty military. Harry presents the sad news as if it's a epidemic. Of course. Eisboch The troops sent over for 3 or 4 tours are coming back with serious psychological problems. They abused these soldiers without regard to the consequences. As far as percentages go, it is an epidemic. |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:07:40 -0400, HK wrote: wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 14:34:45 -0400, HK wrote: Maybe we should take their guns away Despite what the righties here may think, I don't see anything humorous in this situation, not even "snarkily" humorous. In case you haven't noticed, the number of service personnel coming home from that war after extended stays and then getting involved in spouse shootings and suicides is way up, and this incident surely is part and parcel of that sort of emotional stress. It is an issue the military establishment has yet to address properly. Something like reinstate the draft? Increase the gene pool? I have no objection to reinstating the draft, so long as the only exemptions are for serious physical or emotional disabilities. Women's lib and the draft are incompatable. Gonna fill half the Army with combat chicks? Won't ever happen. --Vic The Israelis seem to have plenty of women in uniform, and they are patrolling their cities with assault weapons over their shoulders. |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
jps wrote:
On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:39:02 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: wrote in message ... Maybe we should take their guns away Or certainly disqualify them from future postal worker union jobs. Not making light of a sad story, but it's a aberration, not a norm. More union postal workers have freaked out than active duty military. Harry presents the sad news as if it's a epidemic. Of course. Eisboch The troops sent over for 3 or 4 tours are coming back with serious psychological problems. They abused these soldiers without regard to the consequences. As far as percentages go, it is an epidemic. Shhhhh. It's a secret. |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:48:31 -0400, HK wrote:
Vic Smith wrote: On Mon, 11 May 2009 18:07:40 -0400, HK wrote: Women's lib and the draft are incompatable. Gonna fill half the Army with combat chicks? Won't ever happen. --Vic The Israelis seem to have plenty of women in uniform, and they are patrolling their cities with assault weapons over their shoulders. This ain't Israel. --Vic |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
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U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
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U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
HK wrote:
I have no objection to reinstating the draft, so long as the only exemptions are for ... emotional disabilities. Sure, you have no objection to the draft, as long as they give you an easy exemption. -- Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq. This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... Maybe we should take their guns away Or certainly disqualify them from future postal worker union jobs. Not making light of a sad story, but it's a aberration, not a norm. More union postal workers have freaked out than active duty military. Harry presents the sad news as if it's a epidemic. Of course. Eisboch 1 in 5 have PTSD of some degree. Few people that aren't affected by it know much at all about PTSD. These kids may not kill others or themselves but they are affected just the same. We send these kids to the grinder time after time and ignore the outcome. From an interview with the VA. http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2008/soldi...cial_ptsd.html P.O.V.: What are the current rates of mental health problems in soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan? Maguen: A recent RAND study found that 1 in 5 veterans deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan suffered from PTSD or major depression. These rates are somewhat similar to those reported in other scientific studies. An initial report by Hoge and colleagues (2004) indicated that 16 to 17 percent of returning Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) combat veterans and 11 percent of returning Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) combat veterans met screening criteria for at least one mental health disorder. In a more recent study, Hoge and colleagues (2006) found that the prevalence of screening positive for a mental health problem was 19 percent among service members returning from Iraq and 11 percent after returning from Afghanistan. Among OIF/OEF veterans seen at VA healthcare facilities, 25 percent received mental health diagnoses, with 56 percent of these meeting criteria for two or more mental health diagnoses (Seal et al., 2007). Mental health problems are related to impairments in physical health and general functioning. For example, those with PTSD often experience difficulties in many domains of functioning such as relationships and employment. There have also been several studies that document the relationship between PTSD symptoms and physical health. In one recent study of newly returning veterans, those with PTSD also manifested more physical symptoms - greater symptom severity, lower ratings of general health, more sick call visits and more missed workdays - even after taking into account those who have been injured or wounded (Hoge and colleagues, 2007). |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
mmc wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... Maybe we should take their guns away Or certainly disqualify them from future postal worker union jobs. Not making light of a sad story, but it's a aberration, not a norm. More union postal workers have freaked out than active duty military. Harry presents the sad news as if it's a epidemic. Of course. Eisboch 1 in 5 have PTSD of some degree. Few people that aren't affected by it know much at all about PTSD. These kids may not kill others or themselves but they are affected just the same. We send these kids to the grinder time after time and ignore the outcome. From an interview with the VA. http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2008/soldi...cial_ptsd.html P.O.V.: What are the current rates of mental health problems in soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan? Maguen: A recent RAND study found that 1 in 5 veterans deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan suffered from PTSD or major depression. These rates are somewhat similar to those reported in other scientific studies. An initial report by Hoge and colleagues (2004) indicated that 16 to 17 percent of returning Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) combat veterans and 11 percent of returning Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) combat veterans met screening criteria for at least one mental health disorder. In a more recent study, Hoge and colleagues (2006) found that the prevalence of screening positive for a mental health problem was 19 percent among service members returning from Iraq and 11 percent after returning from Afghanistan. Among OIF/OEF veterans seen at VA healthcare facilities, 25 percent received mental health diagnoses, with 56 percent of these meeting criteria for two or more mental health diagnoses (Seal et al., 2007). Mental health problems are related to impairments in physical health and general functioning. For example, those with PTSD often experience difficulties in many domains of functioning such as relationships and employment. There have also been several studies that document the relationship between PTSD symptoms and physical health. In one recent study of newly returning veterans, those with PTSD also manifested more physical symptoms - greater symptom severity, lower ratings of general health, more sick call visits and more missed workdays - even after taking into account those who have been injured or wounded (Hoge and colleagues, 2007). The actual percentages are higher. There is still stigma in the military attached to admitting one is having emotional/psychological problems and seeking professional help for them. Whatever the actual percentage, it is at least 20% according to the VA's study. That's an epidemic, not an aberration. |
U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
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U.S. Soldier Kills 5 Comrades in Iraq
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