On May 1, 6:53*am, Garrison Hilliard wrote:
Web Produced By: Megan Wasmund
Email:
Last Update: 5:18 pm *

(Shannon Kettler, 9News)

The woman who tried to help a man that fell into the Little Miami River
Wednesday is facing charges.

Cherie Moore is charged with operating a watercraft while under the influence.
Moore was cited and released from police custody.


Curious.

Does this imply that anyone (even a nonpaddling bow passenger) who is
drunk in a canoe is liable for 'operating under the influence'? Do
passengers on a sailboat or motorboat have the same accountability?

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message
...
On May 1, 6:53 am, Garrison Hilliard wrote:
Web Produced By: Megan Wasmund
Email:
Last Update: 5:18 pm

(Shannon Kettler, 9News)

The woman who tried to help a man that fell into the Little Miami River
Wednesday is facing charges.

Cherie Moore is charged with operating a watercraft while under the
influence.
Moore was cited and released from police custody.


Curious.

Does this imply that anyone (even a nonpaddling bow passenger) who is
drunk in a canoe is liable for 'operating under the influence'? Do
passengers on a sailboat or motorboat have the same accountability?

--riverman

This sounds more like "stumbling around on a muddy bank while under the
influence", to me.

I suppose technically, unlike a car, more than one person can be operating a
canoe at any given time. I suppose that enters into what passes for the
reasoning.

Cricket

On May 7, 7:05*am, "Cricket" wrote:
"riverman" wrote in message

...
On May 1, 6:53 am, Garrison Hilliard wrote:

Web Produced By: Megan Wasmund
Email:
Last Update: 5:18 pm

(Shannon Kettler, 9News)

The woman who tried to help a man that fell into the Little Miami River
Wednesday is facing charges.

Cherie Moore is charged with operating a watercraft while under the
influence.
Moore was cited and released from police custody.

Curious.

Does this imply that anyone (even a nonpaddling bow passenger) who is
drunk in a canoe is liable for 'operating under the influence'? Do
passengers on a sailboat or motorboat have the same accountability?

--riverman

This sounds more like "stumbling around on a muddy bank while under the
influence", to me.

I suppose technically, unlike a car, more than one person can be operating a
canoe at any given time. *I suppose that enters into what passes for the
reasoning.

Cricket

More than 'technically'...I think, unlike almost every other type of
water- or landcraft, anyone with a paddle in their hands is operating
and controlling a canoe.

For that matter, I wonder if there has ever been any litigation
related to whitewater rafting about the paddlers in the boat sharing
some sort of 'control' of the boat. Any paddle guide knows that you
can usually, but not always, accommodate for the erratic actions of a
crew. A paddling crew that was horribly out of control in a dangerous
situation could easily endanger themselves....why should the guide be
the liable one?

--riverman

On May 10, 6:28*am, riverman wrote:
On May 7, 7:05*am, "Cricket" wrote:



"riverman" wrote in message

...
On May 1, 6:53 am, Garrison Hilliard wrote:

Web Produced By: Megan Wasmund
Email:
Last Update: 5:18 pm

(Shannon Kettler, 9News)

The woman who tried to help a man that fell into the Little Miami River
Wednesday is facing charges.

Cherie Moore is charged with operating a watercraft while under the
influence.
Moore was cited and released from police custody.

Curious.

Does this imply that anyone (even a nonpaddling bow passenger) who is
drunk in a canoe is liable for 'operating under the influence'? Do
passengers on a sailboat or motorboat have the same accountability?

--riverman

This sounds more like "stumbling around on a muddy bank while under the
influence", to me.

I suppose technically, unlike a car, more than one person can be operating a
canoe at any given time. *I suppose that enters into what passes for the
reasoning.

Cricket

More than 'technically'...I think, unlike almost every other type of
water- or landcraft, anyone with a paddle in their hands is operating
and controlling a canoe.

For that matter, I wonder if there has ever been any litigation
related to whitewater rafting about the paddlers in the boat sharing
some sort of 'control' of the boat. Any paddle guide knows that you
can usually, but not always, accommodate for the erratic actions of a
crew. A paddling crew that was horribly out of control in a dangerous
situation could easily endanger themselves....why should the guide be
the liable one?

--riverman

ummm.. because you took their money in exchange for putting them on
the river?

On May 10, 7:33*pm, Larry G wrote:
On May 10, 6:28*am, riverman wrote:





On May 7, 7:05*am, "Cricket" wrote:

"riverman" wrote in message

....
On May 1, 6:53 am, Garrison Hilliard wrote:

Web Produced By: Megan Wasmund
Email:
Last Update: 5:18 pm

(Shannon Kettler, 9News)

The woman who tried to help a man that fell into the Little Miami River
Wednesday is facing charges.

Cherie Moore is charged with operating a watercraft while under the
influence.
Moore was cited and released from police custody.

Curious.

Does this imply that anyone (even a nonpaddling bow passenger) who is
drunk in a canoe is liable for 'operating under the influence'? Do
passengers on a sailboat or motorboat have the same accountability?

--riverman

This sounds more like "stumbling around on a muddy bank while under the
influence", to me.

I suppose technically, unlike a car, more than one person can be operating a
canoe at any given time. *I suppose that enters into what passes for the
reasoning.

Cricket

More than 'technically'...I think, unlike almost every other type of
water- or landcraft, anyone with a paddle in their hands is operating
and controlling a canoe.

For that matter, I wonder if there has ever been any litigation
related to whitewater rafting about the paddlers in the boat sharing
some sort of 'control' of the boat. Any paddle guide knows that you
can usually, but not always, accommodate for the erratic actions of a
crew. A paddling crew that was horribly out of control in a dangerous
situation could easily endanger themselves....why should the guide be
the liable one?

--riverman

ummm.. because you took their money in exchange for putting them on
the river?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, the company took their money, but people still have self-
responsibility. If a paddle crew was just so damn incompetent, or
decided to have an 'extreme day' and secretly decided to sabatoge
their guide by doing exactly the opposite of what he said, and an
accident resulted, I think he could have grounds to sue THEM, as they
were 'operating' the vehicle at the time. Unlike row rigs, where there
is no uncertainty about who is in control, paddle rafts have a
tremendous amount of shared control that is beyond the guide's ability
to compensate for.

The argument could easily be made that the river company was assuming
responsibility, as the experienced party, and the guide's role assumed
some training of the passengers. But in a canoe, there is not that
relationship; back to the original situation....how does the legal
system determine who is the 'operator' in a canoe?

--riverman

On May 11, 8:51*pm, riverman wrote:
On May 10, 7:33*pm, Larry G wrote:



On May 10, 6:28*am, riverman wrote:

On May 7, 7:05*am, "Cricket" wrote:

"riverman" wrote in message

...
On May 1, 6:53 am, Garrison Hilliard wrote:

Web Produced By: Megan Wasmund
Email:
Last Update: 5:18 pm

(Shannon Kettler, 9News)

The woman who tried to help a man that fell into the Little Miami River
Wednesday is facing charges.

Cherie Moore is charged with operating a watercraft while under the
influence.
Moore was cited and released from police custody.

Curious.

Does this imply that anyone (even a nonpaddling bow passenger) who is
drunk in a canoe is liable for 'operating under the influence'? Do
passengers on a sailboat or motorboat have the same accountability?

--riverman

This sounds more like "stumbling around on a muddy bank while under the
influence", to me.

I suppose technically, unlike a car, more than one person can be operating a
canoe at any given time. *I suppose that enters into what passes for the
reasoning.

Cricket

More than 'technically'...I think, unlike almost every other type of
water- or landcraft, anyone with a paddle in their hands is operating
and controlling a canoe.

For that matter, I wonder if there has ever been any litigation
related to whitewater rafting about the paddlers in the boat sharing
some sort of 'control' of the boat. Any paddle guide knows that you
can usually, but not always, accommodate for the erratic actions of a
crew. A paddling crew that was horribly out of control in a dangerous
situation could easily endanger themselves....why should the guide be
the liable one?

--riverman

ummm.. because you took their money in exchange for putting them on
the river?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, the company took their money, but people still have self-
responsibility. If a paddle crew was just so damn incompetent, or
decided to have an 'extreme day' and secretly decided to sabatoge
their guide by doing exactly the opposite of what he said, and an
accident resulted, I think he could have grounds to sue THEM, as they
were 'operating' the vehicle at the time. Unlike row rigs, where there
is no uncertainty about who is in control, paddle rafts have a
tremendous amount of shared control that is beyond the guide's ability
to compensate for.

The argument could easily be made that the river company was assuming
responsibility, as the experienced party, and the guide's role assumed
some training of the passengers. But in a canoe, there is not that
relationship; back to the original situation....how does the legal
system determine who is the 'operator' in a canoe?

--riverman

I dunno except that some lawyers know the law... like some paddlers
know rivers and I'd not bet against them.
I don't think I've ever heard of an outfitter suing a client but I
suspect it has happened.

See the deal is ..that anyone can sue for just about any reason.. and
then you, as the person being sued have absolutely no choice but to
defend yourself.. and having to hire a lawyer.

In most liability situations.. involving rivers.. the outfitter ain't
going to stay in business long at all if the word gets out that he
sued a customer... right?

On May 17, 7:13*am, Larry G wrote:

In most liability situations.. involving rivers.. the outfitter ain't
going to stay in business long at all if the word gets out that he
sued a customer... right?-

LOL, agreed. But I could easily see an outfitter countersuing if the
passengers or their families sued for negligence. The countersuit
would be based on the passengers conspiring to put the guide (and
outfitter) in danger. And it probably wouldn't deter future
passengers...at least those who weren't planning on being idiots.

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message
...
Curious.

Does this imply that anyone (even a nonpaddling bow passenger) who is
drunk in a canoe is liable for 'operating under the influence'? Do
passengers on a sailboat or motorboat have the same accountability?

===========

It's all in the wording of the statute or regulation and sometimes even
prior cases. How many times have we heard of people getting socked for DUI
when all they were doing was getting their head cleared in the car til they
could drive.

Who knows

mk5000

"Do it today!
Come to the meeting
It's true that we're eating the cannibals!
Eating the cannibals!
Don't close your eyes "--heaven and hell