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Latest on GM unheavals...
GM, Chrysler Must Revamp Plans to Get More U.S. Aid (Update2) By John Hughes March 30 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC must overhaul their recovery plans with deeper concessions to justify further taxpayer aid, and bankruptcy may ultimately be their best chance, an Obama administration official said. The administration demanded the resignation of GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner, and the company said he will be replaced by Fritz Henderson, its president and chief operating officer. GM will also replace most of its board and must increase reliance on producing more fuel-efficient vehicles, under findings to be announced today at the White House by President Barack Obama. Chrysler will get $6 billion in aid only if it completes a partnership with Italian carmaker Fiat SpA in 30 days, said the administration official, who spoke to reporters and declined to be identified before Obama presents the decision. Unless it combines with Fiat, Chrysler won’t get any more U.S. help because it isn’t viable as a stand-alone company, the administration found. Auburn Hills, Michigan-based Chrysler values its proposed technology sharing with Turin-based Fiat at $8 billion to $10 billion. Assuming the accord between the two companies is approved, Fiat will produce its first model with Chrysler in 2011, Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne has said. Detroit-based GM sought as much as $16.6 billion in additional aid after receiving $13.4 billion since December. Chrysler sought $5 billion after receiving $4 billion. Both had to show progress by the end of this month in matters such as GM’s need to reduce unsecured debt by two-thirds. Shares Plunge General Motors fell as much as 57 cents, or 21 percent, to 2.15 euros and was down 15 percent as of 10:18 a.m. in Frankfurt. The stock has plunged 22.6 percent this year in Germany. GM tumbled 87 percent in New York Stock Exchange composite trading last year, the most among the 30 stocks in the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Neither company completed the tasks, the administration official said. The aid plans submitted to the government Feb. 17 don’t warrant additional assistance, the administration concluded. GM’s plan to cut unsecured debt by two-thirds wasn’t sufficient, and Chrysler’s debt was far beyond what the company could sustain, the official said. GM’s plan wouldn’t lead to success even in an improved economy, the administration found. The new strategy sought by the administration would focus on sustainable profit and significant changes in brands, workforce, nameplates and the retail network. Board member Kent Kresa will serve as GM’s interim chairman. Kresa is a former chairman and chief executive of Northrop Grumman Corp., the third-largest U.S. defense company. He is also chairman of Avery Dennison Corp., which develops self adhesives for consumer products. Kresa, Henderson Comment It’s “not yet known” who the board will nominate to constitute the new majority of directors at the next annual meeting, Kresa said in a statement posted on GM’s Web site. Wagoner said in a separate statement that Henderson is “an excellent choice” to replace him and “the ideal person” to lead the company through restructuring. GM, which will continue to receive an undisclosed amount of government aid as it develops a new plan over 60 days, will get greater guidance from the Treasury and outside advisers in the process than previously, according to the administration. The government was silent on how much more aid GM may receive if it devises a successful plan. Chrysler’s plan included assumptions that were unrealistic or overly optimistic, according to the administration. Chrysler is being required to get greater concessions from the United Auto Workers than its plan requires and must get rid of the vast majority of outstanding secured debt. The government will support Chrysler for 30 days as it attempts to make final its agreement with Fiat. Chrysler has proposed giving Fiat a 35 percent stake in the company. Chrysler Corp., as it was known then, took out $1.2 billion in government-backed loans in 1980 and repaid the money in 1983. Quick Bankruptcy Both companies’ best chance at success may include a quick and surgical bankruptcy, according to the administration. Unlike a liquidation or conventional bankruptcy, a structured process would make it easier for the companies to clear away liabilities. The bankruptcy process could be as short as 30 days, and the government would provide so-called debtor-in-possession financing for the companies if needed, according to the administration. Still, bankruptcy isn’t the administration’s first choice, the official said. To help encourage car sales, the administration will back warranties so consumers who buy cars during the restructuring have confidence the guarantees will be honored even if the companies go out of business, according to the administration. Edward Montgomery, an economist and former Labor Department deputy secretary, will be appointed to a new post of Auto Recovery Director to help communities hurt by job losses in the industry. |
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On Mar 30, 6:42*am, HK wrote:
GM, Chrysler Must Revamp Plans to Get More U.S. Aid (Update2) By John Hughes March 30 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC must overhaul their recovery plans with deeper concessions to justify further taxpayer aid, and bankruptcy may ultimately be their best chance, an Obama administration official said. The administration demanded the resignation of GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner, and the company said he will be replaced by Fritz Henderson, its president and chief operating officer. GM will also replace most of its board and must increase reliance on producing more fuel-efficient vehicles, under findings to be announced today at the White House by President Barack Obama. Chrysler will get $6 billion in aid only if it completes a partnership with Italian carmaker Fiat SpA in 30 days, said the administration official, who spoke to reporters and declined to be identified before Obama presents the decision. Unless it combines with Fiat, Chrysler won’t get any more U.S. help because it isn’t viable as a stand-alone company, the administration found. Auburn Hills, Michigan-based Chrysler values its proposed technology sharing with Turin-based Fiat at $8 billion to $10 billion. Assuming the accord between the two companies is approved, Fiat will produce its first model with Chrysler in 2011, Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne has said. Detroit-based GM sought as much as $16.6 billion in additional aid after receiving $13.4 billion since December. Chrysler sought $5 billion after receiving $4 billion. Both had to show progress by the end of this month in matters such as GM’s need to reduce unsecured debt by two-thirds. Shares Plunge General Motors fell as much as 57 cents, or 21 percent, to 2.15 euros and was down 15 percent as of 10:18 a.m. in Frankfurt. The stock has plunged 22.6 percent this year in Germany. GM tumbled 87 percent in New York Stock Exchange composite trading last year, the most among the 30 stocks in the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Neither company completed the tasks, the administration official said. The aid plans submitted to the government Feb. 17 don’t warrant additional assistance, the administration concluded. GM’s plan to cut unsecured debt by two-thirds wasn’t sufficient, and Chrysler’s debt was far beyond what the company could sustain, the official said. GM’s plan wouldn’t lead to success even in an improved economy, the administration found. The new strategy sought by the administration would focus on sustainable profit and significant changes in brands, workforce, nameplates and the retail network. Board member Kent Kresa will serve as GM’s interim chairman. Kresa is a former chairman and chief executive of Northrop Grumman Corp., the third-largest U.S. defense company. He is also chairman of Avery Dennison Corp., which develops self adhesives for consumer products.. Kresa, Henderson Comment It’s “not yet known” who the board will nominate to constitute the new majority of directors at the next annual meeting, Kresa said in a statement posted on GM’s Web site. Wagoner said in a separate statement that Henderson is “an excellent choice” to replace him and “the ideal person” to lead the company through restructuring. GM, which will continue to receive an undisclosed amount of government aid as it develops a new plan over 60 days, will get greater guidance from the Treasury and outside advisers in the process than previously, according to the administration. The government was silent on how much more aid GM may receive if it devises a successful plan. Chrysler’s plan included assumptions that were unrealistic or overly optimistic, according to the administration. Chrysler is being required to get greater concessions from the United Auto Workers than its plan requires and must get rid of the vast majority of outstanding secured debt. |
Latest on GM unheavals...
wrote in message ... On Mar 30, 6:42 am, HK wrote: GM, Chrysler Must Revamp Plans to Get More U.S. Aid (Update2) By John Hughes March 30 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC must overhaul their recovery plans with deeper concessions to justify further taxpayer aid, and bankruptcy may ultimately be their best chance, an Obama administration official said. The administration demanded the resignation of GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner, and the company said he will be replaced by Fritz Henderson, its president and chief operating officer. GM will also replace most of its board and must increase reliance on producing more fuel-efficient vehicles, under findings to be announced today at the White House by President Barack Obama. Chrysler will get $6 billion in aid only if it completes a partnership with Italian carmaker Fiat SpA in 30 days, said the administration official, who spoke to reporters and declined to be identified before Obama presents the decision. Unless it combines with Fiat, Chrysler won’t get any more U.S. help because it isn’t viable as a stand-alone company, the administration found. Auburn Hills, Michigan-based Chrysler values its proposed technology sharing with Turin-based Fiat at $8 billion to $10 billion. Assuming the accord between the two companies is approved, Fiat will produce its first model with Chrysler in 2011, Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne has said. Detroit-based GM sought as much as $16.6 billion in additional aid after receiving $13.4 billion since December. Chrysler sought $5 billion after receiving $4 billion. Both had to show progress by the end of this month in matters such as GM’s need to reduce unsecured debt by two-thirds. Shares Plunge General Motors fell as much as 57 cents, or 21 percent, to 2.15 euros and was down 15 percent as of 10:18 a.m. in Frankfurt. The stock has plunged 22.6 percent this year in Germany. GM tumbled 87 percent in New York Stock Exchange composite trading last year, the most among the 30 stocks in the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Neither company completed the tasks, the administration official said. The aid plans submitted to the government Feb. 17 don’t warrant additional assistance, the administration concluded. GM’s plan to cut unsecured debt by two-thirds wasn’t sufficient, and Chrysler’s debt was far beyond what the company could sustain, the official said. GM’s plan wouldn’t lead to success even in an improved economy, the administration found. The new strategy sought by the administration would focus on sustainable profit and significant changes in brands, workforce, nameplates and the retail network. Board member Kent Kresa will serve as GM’s interim chairman. Kresa is a former chairman and chief executive of Northrop Grumman Corp., the third-largest U.S. defense company. He is also chairman of Avery Dennison Corp., which develops self adhesives for consumer products. Kresa, Henderson Comment It’s “not yet known” who the board will nominate to constitute the new majority of directors at the next annual meeting, Kresa said in a statement posted on GM’s Web site. Wagoner said in a separate statement that Henderson is “an excellent choice” to replace him and “the ideal person” to lead the company through restructuring. GM, which will continue to receive an undisclosed amount of government aid as it develops a new plan over 60 days, will get greater guidance from the Treasury and outside advisers in the process than previously, according to the administration. The government was silent on how much more aid GM may receive if it devises a successful plan. Chrysler’s plan included assumptions that were unrealistic or overly optimistic, according to the administration. Chrysler is being required to get greater concessions from the United Auto Workers than its plan requires and must get rid of the vast majority of outstanding secured debt. The government will support Chrysler for 30 days as it attempts to make final its agreement with Fiat. Chrysler has proposed giving Fiat a 35 percent stake in the company. Chrysler Corp., as it was known then, took out $1.2 billion in government-backed loans in 1980 and repaid the money in 1983. Quick Bankruptcy Both companies’ best chance at success may include a quick and surgical bankruptcy, according to the administration. Unlike a liquidation or conventional bankruptcy, a structured process would make it easier for the companies to clear away liabilities. The bankruptcy process could be as short as 30 days, and the government would provide so-called debtor-in-possession financing for the companies if needed, according to the administration. Still, bankruptcy isn’t the administration’s first choice, the official said. To help encourage car sales, the administration will back warranties so consumers who buy cars during the restructuring have confidence the guarantees will be honored even if the companies go out of business, according to the administration. Edward Montgomery, an economist and former Labor Department deputy secretary, will be appointed to a new post of Auto Recovery Director to help communities hurt by job losses in the industry. What's an "Unheaval", mister professional writer? Government Motors of the USSR. GM is set to open down 18%. Bet it doesn't stop there. Anyone know how to place shorts? Can do the match with detail? Never placed one yet, but suspect in GMs case the shorts are the only winners on GM. |
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Canuck57 wrote:
wrote in message ... On Mar 30, 6:42 am, HK wrote: GM, Chrysler Must Revamp Plans to Get More U.S. Aid (Update2) By John Hughes March 30 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC must overhaul their recovery plans with deeper concessions to justify further taxpayer aid, and bankruptcy may ultimately be their best chance, an Obama administration official said. The administration demanded the resignation of GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner, and the company said he will be replaced by Fritz Henderson, its president and chief operating officer. GM will also replace most of its board and must increase reliance on producing more fuel-efficient vehicles, under findings to be announced today at the White House by President Barack Obama. Chrysler will get $6 billion in aid only if it completes a partnership with Italian carmaker Fiat SpA in 30 days, said the administration official, who spoke to reporters and declined to be identified before Obama presents the decision. Unless it combines with Fiat, Chrysler won’t get any more U.S. help because it isn’t viable as a stand-alone company, the administration found. Auburn Hills, Michigan-based Chrysler values its proposed technology sharing with Turin-based Fiat at $8 billion to $10 billion. Assuming the accord between the two companies is approved, Fiat will produce its first model with Chrysler in 2011, Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne has said. Detroit-based GM sought as much as $16.6 billion in additional aid after receiving $13.4 billion since December. Chrysler sought $5 billion after receiving $4 billion. Both had to show progress by the end of this month in matters such as GM’s need to reduce unsecured debt by two-thirds. Shares Plunge General Motors fell as much as 57 cents, or 21 percent, to 2.15 euros and was down 15 percent as of 10:18 a.m. in Frankfurt. The stock has plunged 22.6 percent this year in Germany. GM tumbled 87 percent in New York Stock Exchange composite trading last year, the most among the 30 stocks in the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Neither company completed the tasks, the administration official said. The aid plans submitted to the government Feb. 17 don’t warrant additional assistance, the administration concluded. GM’s plan to cut unsecured debt by two-thirds wasn’t sufficient, and Chrysler’s debt was far beyond what the company could sustain, the official said. GM’s plan wouldn’t lead to success even in an improved economy, the administration found. The new strategy sought by the administration would focus on sustainable profit and significant changes in brands, workforce, nameplates and the retail network. Board member Kent Kresa will serve as GM’s interim chairman. Kresa is a former chairman and chief executive of Northrop Grumman Corp., the third-largest U.S. defense company. He is also chairman of Avery Dennison Corp., which develops self adhesives for consumer products. Kresa, Henderson Comment It’s “not yet known” who the board will nominate to constitute the new majority of directors at the next annual meeting, Kresa said in a statement posted on GM’s Web site. Wagoner said in a separate statement that Henderson is “an excellent choice” to replace him and “the ideal person” to lead the company through restructuring. GM, which will continue to receive an undisclosed amount of government aid as it develops a new plan over 60 days, will get greater guidance from the Treasury and outside advisers in the process than previously, according to the administration. The government was silent on how much more aid GM may receive if it devises a successful plan. Chrysler’s plan included assumptions that were unrealistic or overly optimistic, according to the administration. Chrysler is being required to get greater concessions from the United Auto Workers than its plan requires and must get rid of the vast majority of outstanding secured debt. The government will support Chrysler for 30 days as it attempts to make final its agreement with Fiat. Chrysler has proposed giving Fiat a 35 percent stake in the company. Chrysler Corp., as it was known then, took out $1.2 billion in government-backed loans in 1980 and repaid the money in 1983. Quick Bankruptcy Both companies’ best chance at success may include a quick and surgical bankruptcy, according to the administration. Unlike a liquidation or conventional bankruptcy, a structured process would make it easier for the companies to clear away liabilities. The bankruptcy process could be as short as 30 days, and the government would provide so-called debtor-in-possession financing for the companies if needed, according to the administration. Still, bankruptcy isn’t the administration’s first choice, the official said. To help encourage car sales, the administration will back warranties so consumers who buy cars during the restructuring have confidence the guarantees will be honored even if the companies go out of business, according to the administration. Edward Montgomery, an economist and former Labor Department deputy secretary, will be appointed to a new post of Auto Recovery Director to help communities hurt by job losses in the industry. What's an "Unheaval", mister professional writer? Government Motors of the USSR. GM is set to open down 18%. Bet it doesn't stop there. Anyone know how to place shorts? Can do the match with detail? Never placed one yet, but suspect in GMs case the shorts are the only winners on GM. Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless. |
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"HK" wrote in message m... Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless. Weren't you in favor of keeping them alive not long ago in the best interests of the union workers who would become otherwise unemployed, not to speak of certain loss of retirement benefits? I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union under the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness. It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the same conclusion. Eisboch |
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Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless. Weren't you in favor of keeping them alive not long ago in the best interests of the union workers who would become otherwise unemployed, not to speak of certain loss of retirement benefits? I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union under the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness. It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the same conclusion. Eisboch Delisting is not the same as killing. Oh...and the unions already offered up tremendous concessions. GM needs massive restructuring with an entirely new management team. The corporate bozos in there now need to go. |
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"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless. Weren't you in favor of keeping them alive not long ago in the best interests of the union workers who would become otherwise unemployed, not to speak of certain loss of retirement benefits? I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union under the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness. It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the same conclusion. Eisboch Delisting is not the same as killing. Oh...and the unions already offered up tremendous concessions. GM needs massive restructuring with an entirely new management team. The corporate bozos in there now need to go. Assuming GM is to continue as a going concern, what possible benefit is there to delisting? It's too bloated to be a private corporation ..... look at Chrysler. Chrysler is a fraction of the size of GM and, as a privately held corporation, is the most unlikely to survive. Chrysler's death spiral started over a decade ago. Someone made the quip recently that GM is really a health care company that builds cars in an attempt to support itself. All the existing contracts with everybody they do business with, including the unions, need to be torn up and renegotiated |
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Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless. Weren't you in favor of keeping them alive not long ago in the best interests of the union workers who would become otherwise unemployed, not to speak of certain loss of retirement benefits? I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union under the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness. It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the same conclusion. Eisboch Delisting is not the same as killing. Oh...and the unions already offered up tremendous concessions. GM needs massive restructuring with an entirely new management team. The corporate bozos in there now need to go. Assuming GM is to continue as a going concern, what possible benefit is there to delisting? It's too bloated to be a private corporation ..... look at Chrysler. Chrysler is a fraction of the size of GM and, as a privately held corporation, is the most unlikely to survive. Chrysler's death spiral started over a decade ago. Someone made the quip recently that GM is really a health care company that builds cars in an attempt to support itself. All the existing contracts with everybody they do business with, including the unions, need to be torn up and renegotiated I'm all in favor of a national health care plan for auto workers. |
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"HK" wrote in message m... I'm all in favor of a national health care plan for auto workers. So am I, but not just for auto workers. And not run by the government. It needs to affordable, provide quality care, and not a outlandish financial burden on companies. In fact, companies shouldn't be in the business of being health care administrators, period. Eisboch |
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:51:25 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote: All the existing contracts with everybody they do business with, including the unions, need to be torn up and renegotiated Unfortunately that is probably going to be politically unacceptable. GM could have done it on their own but now that the donkey has its nose in the tent it seems unlikely to me. They will end up being a government welfare agency that also makes cars. |
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:52:43 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote: In fact, companies shouldn't be in the business of being health care administrators, period. At one time health care was a fringe benefit offered by employers to attract and retain good people. What happened to that concept? |
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:25:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:52:43 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: In fact, companies shouldn't be in the business of being health care administrators, period. At one time health care was a fringe benefit offered by employers to attract and retain good people. What happened to that concept? One word...unions. -- John H "My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." Thomas Jefferson |
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"John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:25:12 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:52:43 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: In fact, companies shouldn't be in the business of being health care administrators, period. At one time health care was a fringe benefit offered by employers to attract and retain good people. What happened to that concept? One word...unions. -- John H What a ninny. If only 8 percent of American workers belong to unions, how come they have such a great influence? |
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:25:12 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
At one time health care was a fringe benefit offered by employers to attract and retain good people. What happened to that concept? I guess bad people need health care too. |
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"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:52:43 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: In fact, companies shouldn't be in the business of being health care administrators, period. At one time health care was a fringe benefit offered by employers to attract and retain good people. What happened to that concept? Cost. As a fringe benefit the company either paid the premium fully or paid a major portion of it. But as the premiums have soared over the past 20 years and the introduction of HMO's that further escalated costs, group health insurance, as a benefit in small business has become a significant cost of doing business. For those in some industries it has become difficult to compete price-wise with other companies that don't have a health plan benefit. Another issue is simply the cost and time of administrating the program. We used to do it through our small HR department, even though it cost the company money with no financial consideration for the service. I always thought that Blue Cross should compensate small businesses for administrating *their* program. Some companies are now being forced to add a "service charge", just to help cover the cost of administrating the health program. Business, especially small ones, should not be in the health insurance administration business. It would be far better to pay the employees additional money in their paycheck and allow them to purchase their own plan. Contrary to what many believe, you cannot simply "pass on" the cost to the customer in all types of businesses. Eisboch |
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Don White wrote:
"John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:25:12 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:52:43 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: In fact, companies shouldn't be in the business of being health care administrators, period. At one time health care was a fringe benefit offered by employers to attract and retain good people. What happened to that concept? One word...unions. -- John H What a ninny. If only 8 percent of American workers belong to unions, how come they have such a great influence? You have to understand that Herring hid from reality most of his adult life by staying in the army, and that his opinions were formed in a simple society in which one always knew one's place. As a substitute teacher, he may have been a member of a teacher's union, but assuredly he wasn't an active member, and probably only paid minimal dues so he could suck down the fringe benefits the union negotiated for all teachers. In other words, Herring was a bloodsucker. He still is. He's living off the taxpayers now, and so is his wife. |
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"HK" wrote in message m... Don White wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:25:12 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:52:43 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: In fact, companies shouldn't be in the business of being health care administrators, period. At one time health care was a fringe benefit offered by employers to attract and retain good people. What happened to that concept? One word...unions. -- John H What a ninny. If only 8 percent of American workers belong to unions, how come they have such a great influence? You have to understand that Herring hid from reality most of his adult life by staying in the army, and that his opinions were formed in a simple society in which one always knew one's place. As a substitute teacher, he may have been a member of a teacher's union, but assuredly he wasn't an active member, and probably only paid minimal dues so he could suck down the fringe benefits the union negotiated for all teachers. In other words, Herring was a bloodsucker. He still is. He's living off the taxpayers now, and so is his wife. I recently heard the result of a poll designed to determine how many non-union workers in various trades would desire to become part of a union organization if offered the opportunity. The poll included trades typically involved with unions, included some former union people and was conducted in a manner that kept their identity totally anonymous to prevent any possible influence or intimidation by their current employers. Only 9 percent said "yes". Eisboch |
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Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Don White wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:25:12 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:52:43 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: In fact, companies shouldn't be in the business of being health care administrators, period. At one time health care was a fringe benefit offered by employers to attract and retain good people. What happened to that concept? One word...unions. -- John H What a ninny. If only 8 percent of American workers belong to unions, how come they have such a great influence? You have to understand that Herring hid from reality most of his adult life by staying in the army, and that his opinions were formed in a simple society in which one always knew one's place. As a substitute teacher, he may have been a member of a teacher's union, but assuredly he wasn't an active member, and probably only paid minimal dues so he could suck down the fringe benefits the union negotiated for all teachers. In other words, Herring was a bloodsucker. He still is. He's living off the taxpayers now, and so is his wife. I recently heard the result of a poll designed to determine how many non-union workers in various trades would desire to become part of a union organization if offered the opportunity. The poll included trades typically involved with unions, included some former union people and was conducted in a manner that kept their identity totally anonymous to prevent any possible influence or intimidation by their current employers. Only 9 percent said "yes". Eisboch What has what you heard have to do with Herring's bloodsucking ways? |
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"HK" wrote in message m... In other words, Herring was a bloodsucker. He still is. He's living off the taxpayers now, and so is his wife. I recently heard the result of a poll designed to determine how many non-union workers in various trades would desire to become part of a union organization if offered the opportunity. The poll included trades typically involved with unions, included some former union people and was conducted in a manner that kept their identity totally anonymous to prevent any possible influence or intimidation by their current employers. Only 9 percent said "yes". Eisboch What has what you heard have to do with Herring's bloodsucking ways? Wooosh. Eisboch |
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Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... In other words, Herring was a bloodsucker. He still is. He's living off the taxpayers now, and so is his wife. I recently heard the result of a poll designed to determine how many non-union workers in various trades would desire to become part of a union organization if offered the opportunity. The poll included trades typically involved with unions, included some former union people and was conducted in a manner that kept their identity totally anonymous to prevent any possible influence or intimidation by their current employers. Only 9 percent said "yes". Eisboch What has what you heard have to do with Herring's bloodsucking ways? Wooosh. Eisboch Not at all. Send me the URL of the poll, if you will. |
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Dump Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Gmc. Keep Chevy and Cadillac. That overstuffed
Corp needs to get lean, mean, and green in order to survive. ( An admittedly oversimplistic approach) "HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless. GM needs massive restructuring with an entirely new management team. The corporate bozos in there now need to go. |
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"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... In other words, Herring was a bloodsucker. He still is. He's living off the taxpayers now, and so is his wife. I recently heard the result of a poll designed to determine how many non-union workers in various trades would desire to become part of a union organization if offered the opportunity. The poll included trades typically involved with unions, included some former union people and was conducted in a manner that kept their identity totally anonymous to prevent any possible influence or intimidation by their current employers. Only 9 percent said "yes". Eisboch What has what you heard have to do with Herring's bloodsucking ways? Wooosh. Eisboch Not at all. Send me the URL of the poll, if you will. I didn't read it. I heard about it. I occasionally listen to this "talk" radio program because it represents both the left and right points of view on issues and does so in an adult, non-inflammatory manner. More importantly, the two people are often very humorous in their "debates". Here's the link to their show. It's a radio station in Boston, obviously. http://www.wtkk.com/Hosts/JimandMarg...7/Default.aspx Eisboch |
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:11:38 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote: "HK" wrote in message om... Don White wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:25:12 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:52:43 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: In fact, companies shouldn't be in the business of being health care administrators, period. At one time health care was a fringe benefit offered by employers to attract and retain good people. What happened to that concept? One word...unions. -- John H What a ninny. If only 8 percent of American workers belong to unions, how come they have such a great influence? You have to understand that Herring hid from reality most of his adult life by staying in the army, and that his opinions were formed in a simple society in which one always knew one's place. As a substitute teacher, he may have been a member of a teacher's union, but assuredly he wasn't an active member, and probably only paid minimal dues so he could suck down the fringe benefits the union negotiated for all teachers. In other words, Herring was a bloodsucker. He still is. He's living off the taxpayers now, and so is his wife. I recently heard the result of a poll designed to determine how many non-union workers in various trades would desire to become part of a union organization if offered the opportunity. The poll included trades typically involved with unions, included some former union people and was conducted in a manner that kept their identity totally anonymous to prevent any possible influence or intimidation by their current employers. Only 9 percent said "yes". Eisboch FWIW, I wouldn't join the union, and advised new teachers not to do so. The 'legal protection' which was a big union selling point was available through home owners insurance as a rider. The local steward wasn't too happy with me, -- John H "My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." Thomas Jefferson |
Latest on GM unheavals...
"HK" wrote in message m... GM, Chrysler Must Revamp Plans to Get More U.S. Aid (Update2) By John Hughes March 30 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC must overhaul their recovery plans with deeper concessions to justify further taxpayer aid, and bankruptcy may ultimately be their best chance, an Obama administration official said. The administration demanded the resignation of GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner, and the company said he will be replaced by Fritz Henderson, its president and chief operating officer. GM will also replace most of its board and must increase reliance on producing more fuel-efficient vehicles, under findings to be announced today at the White House by President Barack Obama. Chrysler will get $6 billion in aid only if it completes a partnership with Italian carmaker Fiat SpA in 30 days, said the administration official, who spoke to reporters and declined to be identified before Obama presents the decision. Unless it combines with Fiat, Chrysler won’t get any more U.S. help because it isn’t viable as a stand-alone company, the administration found. Auburn Hills, Michigan-based Chrysler values its proposed technology sharing with Turin-based Fiat at $8 billion to $10 billion. Assuming the accord between the two companies is approved, Fiat will produce its first model with Chrysler in 2011, Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne has said. Detroit-based GM sought as much as $16.6 billion in additional aid after receiving $13.4 billion since December. Chrysler sought $5 billion after receiving $4 billion. Both had to show progress by the end of this month in matters such as GM’s need to reduce unsecured debt by two-thirds. Shares Plunge General Motors fell as much as 57 cents, or 21 percent, to 2.15 euros and was down 15 percent as of 10:18 a.m. in Frankfurt. The stock has plunged 22.6 percent this year in Germany. GM tumbled 87 percent in New York Stock Exchange composite trading last year, the most among the 30 stocks in the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Neither company completed the tasks, the administration official said. The aid plans submitted to the government Feb. 17 don’t warrant additional assistance, the administration concluded. GM’s plan to cut unsecured debt by two-thirds wasn’t sufficient, and Chrysler’s debt was far beyond what the company could sustain, the official said. GM’s plan wouldn’t lead to success even in an improved economy, the administration found. The new strategy sought by the administration would focus on sustainable profit and significant changes in brands, workforce, nameplates and the retail network. Board member Kent Kresa will serve as GM’s interim chairman. Kresa is a former chairman and chief executive of Northrop Grumman Corp., the third-largest U.S. defense company. He is also chairman of Avery Dennison Corp., which develops self adhesives for consumer products. Kresa, Henderson Comment It’s “not yet known” who the board will nominate to constitute the new majority of directors at the next annual meeting, Kresa said in a statement posted on GM’s Web site. Wagoner said in a separate statement that Henderson is “an excellent choice” to replace him and “the ideal person” to lead the company through restructuring. GM, which will continue to receive an undisclosed amount of government aid as it develops a new plan over 60 days, will get greater guidance from the Treasury and outside advisers in the process than previously, according to the administration. The government was silent on how much more aid GM may receive if it devises a successful plan. Chrysler’s plan included assumptions that were unrealistic or overly optimistic, according to the administration. Chrysler is being required to get greater concessions from the United Auto Workers than its plan requires and must get rid of the vast majority of outstanding secured debt. The government will support Chrysler for 30 days as it attempts to make final its agreement with Fiat. Chrysler has proposed giving Fiat a 35 percent stake in the company. Chrysler Corp., as it was known then, took out $1.2 billion in government-backed loans in 1980 and repaid the money in 1983. Quick Bankruptcy Both companies’ best chance at success may include a quick and surgical bankruptcy, according to the administration. Unlike a liquidation or conventional bankruptcy, a structured process would make it easier for the companies to clear away liabilities. The bankruptcy process could be as short as 30 days, and the government would provide so-called debtor-in-possession financing for the companies if needed, according to the administration. Still, bankruptcy isn’t the administration’s first choice, the official said. To help encourage car sales, the administration will back warranties so consumers who buy cars during the restructuring have confidence the guarantees will be honored even if the companies go out of business, according to the administration. Edward Montgomery, an economist and former Labor Department deputy secretary, will be appointed to a new post of Auto Recovery Director to help communities hurt by job losses in the industry. Sorry, but the upheaval will happen when the people get tired of the White House firing private citizens. If it ever happens, that is. The White House, particularly Big Lips should have nothing to do with this. The company should float or sink on its own. Just like any other business in the USA. Steve |
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"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless. Weren't you in favor of keeping them alive not long ago in the best interests of the union workers who would become otherwise unemployed, not to speak of certain loss of retirement benefits? I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union under the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness. It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the same conclusion. Eisboch Delisting is not the same as killing. Oh...and the unions already offered up tremendous concessions. GM needs massive restructuring with an entirely new management team. The corporate bozos in there now need to go. Assuming GM is to continue as a going concern, what possible benefit is there to delisting? It's too bloated to be a private corporation ..... look at Chrysler. Chrysler is a fraction of the size of GM and, as a privately held corporation, is the most unlikely to survive. Chrysler's death spiral started over a decade ago. Someone made the quip recently that GM is really a health care company that builds cars in an attempt to support itself. All the existing contracts with everybody they do business with, including the unions, need to be torn up and renegotiated I'm all in favor of a national health care plan for auto workers. I'm all in favor of programs that would allow me to stay home, get a check every week, have full health care like I have now with Humana, sleep as long as I want, and to go fishing whenever I felt like it. Steve |
Latest on GM unheavals...
"John H" wrote in message ... FWIW, I wouldn't join the union, and advised new teachers not to do so. The 'legal protection' which was a big union selling point was available through home owners insurance as a rider. The local steward wasn't too happy with me, -- John H Neither were the students from what I hear! |
Latest on GM unheavals...
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:04:12 -0400, wrote:
Dump Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Gmc. Keep Chevy and Cadillac. That overstuffed Corp needs to get lean, mean, and green in order to survive. ( An admittedly oversimplistic approach) Buick has been the best of the bunch for quality, something that Detroit could use a little more of. |
Latest on GM unheavals...
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message m... Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless. Weren't you in favor of keeping them alive not long ago in the best interests of the union workers who would become otherwise unemployed, not to speak of certain loss of retirement benefits? I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union under the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness. It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the same conclusion. Eisboch I think the White House is seeing the light because they have too. We can't afford the whopping bailout tax bills. We can't afford to bailout every defunct welcher debter in the country. They need to pay their bills or the whole country is basically bankrupt. That being said, the government is now beginning to worry about it's futures. And the government union is going to win over GM & Chrysler whiners. Government is doing this as they know you can kiss the economic anything if you can't stem the bailout corruption. And that means less government. Which will happen one way or another as North America can't afford the tax rape, the trillions for losers programs and the corruption insanity. This is a depression, not a recession. |
Latest on GM unheavals...
"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Damned company ought to be delisted. It is worthless. Weren't you in favor of keeping them alive not long ago in the best interests of the union workers who would become otherwise unemployed, not to speak of certain loss of retirement benefits? I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union under the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness. It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the same conclusion. Eisboch Delisting is not the same as killing. Oh...and the unions already offered up tremendous concessions. GM needs massive restructuring with an entirely new management team. The corporate bozos in there now need to go. Assuming GM is to continue as a going concern, what possible benefit is there to delisting? It's too bloated to be a private corporation ..... look at Chrysler. Chrysler is a fraction of the size of GM and, as a privately held corporation, is the most unlikely to survive. Chrysler's death spiral started over a decade ago. Someone made the quip recently that GM is really a health care company that builds cars in an attempt to support itself. All the existing contracts with everybody they do business with, including the unions, need to be torn up and renegotiated I'm all in favor of a national health care plan for auto workers. I am too, start by taking the cold dose of reality without whining. If you feal the need to whine, get a job outside of auto. Hell, you think this economic mess is a auto mess, when in fact they are a very small part of the huge problem. And no one is bailing out everyone else. The whiny gripers need to pucker up and get a grip.... |
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"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:04:12 -0400, wrote: Dump Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Gmc. Keep Chevy and Cadillac. That overstuffed Corp needs to get lean, mean, and green in order to survive. ( An admittedly oversimplistic approach) Buick has been the best of the bunch for quality, something that Detroit could use a little more of. Made on the same lines as chevy, same garbage, different label. GM - Government Motors where why know how to waste your tax dollars! |
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"SteveB" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message m... GM, Chrysler Must Revamp Plans to Get More U.S. Aid (Update2) By John Hughes March 30 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC must overhaul their recovery plans with deeper concessions to justify further taxpayer aid, and bankruptcy may ultimately be their best chance, an Obama administration official said. The administration demanded the resignation of GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner, and the company said he will be replaced by Fritz Henderson, its president and chief operating officer. GM will also replace most of its board and must increase reliance on producing more fuel-efficient vehicles, under findings to be announced today at the White House by President Barack Obama. Chrysler will get $6 billion in aid only if it completes a partnership with Italian carmaker Fiat SpA in 30 days, said the administration official, who spoke to reporters and declined to be identified before Obama presents the decision. Unless it combines with Fiat, Chrysler won't get any more U.S. help because it isn't viable as a stand-alone company, the administration found. Auburn Hills, Michigan-based Chrysler values its proposed technology sharing with Turin-based Fiat at $8 billion to $10 billion. Assuming the accord between the two companies is approved, Fiat will produce its first model with Chrysler in 2011, Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne has said. Detroit-based GM sought as much as $16.6 billion in additional aid after receiving $13.4 billion since December. Chrysler sought $5 billion after receiving $4 billion. Both had to show progress by the end of this month in matters such as GM's need to reduce unsecured debt by two-thirds. Shares Plunge General Motors fell as much as 57 cents, or 21 percent, to 2.15 euros and was down 15 percent as of 10:18 a.m. in Frankfurt. The stock has plunged 22.6 percent this year in Germany. GM tumbled 87 percent in New York Stock Exchange composite trading last year, the most among the 30 stocks in the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Neither company completed the tasks, the administration official said. The aid plans submitted to the government Feb. 17 don't warrant additional assistance, the administration concluded. GM's plan to cut unsecured debt by two-thirds wasn't sufficient, and Chrysler's debt was far beyond what the company could sustain, the official said. GM's plan wouldn't lead to success even in an improved economy, the administration found. The new strategy sought by the administration would focus on sustainable profit and significant changes in brands, workforce, nameplates and the retail network. Board member Kent Kresa will serve as GM's interim chairman. Kresa is a former chairman and chief executive of Northrop Grumman Corp., the third-largest U.S. defense company. He is also chairman of Avery Dennison Corp., which develops self adhesives for consumer products. Kresa, Henderson Comment It's "not yet known" who the board will nominate to constitute the new majority of directors at the next annual meeting, Kresa said in a statement posted on GM's Web site. Wagoner said in a separate statement that Henderson is "an excellent choice" to replace him and "the ideal person" to lead the company through restructuring. GM, which will continue to receive an undisclosed amount of government aid as it develops a new plan over 60 days, will get greater guidance from the Treasury and outside advisers in the process than previously, according to the administration. The government was silent on how much more aid GM may receive if it devises a successful plan. Chrysler's plan included assumptions that were unrealistic or overly optimistic, according to the administration. Chrysler is being required to get greater concessions from the United Auto Workers than its plan requires and must get rid of the vast majority of outstanding secured debt. The government will support Chrysler for 30 days as it attempts to make final its agreement with Fiat. Chrysler has proposed giving Fiat a 35 percent stake in the company. Chrysler Corp., as it was known then, took out $1.2 billion in government-backed loans in 1980 and repaid the money in 1983. Quick Bankruptcy Both companies' best chance at success may include a quick and surgical bankruptcy, according to the administration. Unlike a liquidation or conventional bankruptcy, a structured process would make it easier for the companies to clear away liabilities. The bankruptcy process could be as short as 30 days, and the government would provide so-called debtor-in-possession financing for the companies if needed, according to the administration. Still, bankruptcy isn't the administration's first choice, the official said. To help encourage car sales, the administration will back warranties so consumers who buy cars during the restructuring have confidence the guarantees will be honored even if the companies go out of business, according to the administration. Edward Montgomery, an economist and former Labor Department deputy secretary, will be appointed to a new post of Auto Recovery Director to help communities hurt by job losses in the industry. Sorry, but the upheaval will happen when the people get tired of the White House firing private citizens. If it ever happens, that is. The White House, particularly Big Lips should have nothing to do with this. The company should float or sink on its own. Just like any other business in the USA. Steve Agreed, government is a major part of the problem, this is like the wolf crying wolf and there are two wolves destroying middle class America. Actually three wolves: - government waste in size and cost - bank gouging and costs - corporate execitve and board corruption The three culprets of this depression, and no one has yet to finger government. But government is at least as guilty in lining their rich buddies pockets. We need a revolution. Say get rid of the senate, in this day and age let the people vote directly. It is much harder to corrupt 330M normal people than to corrupt just a few hundred senators and congress people. It isn't like a mule has to go from California to DC in 4 weeks like 250 years ago. We need democracy to go right to the people, none of this corruption for 3 years and repent just before an election crap. |
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:02:08 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:04:12 -0400, wrote: Dump Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Gmc. Keep Chevy and Cadillac. That overstuffed Corp needs to get lean, mean, and green in order to survive. ( An admittedly oversimplistic approach) Buick has been the best of the bunch for quality, something that Detroit could use a little more of. It's my understanding that Buick will be kept. It is considered one of GM's "core" brands, along with Chevrolet, Cadillac, and GMC. Pontiac will be shrunk to a niche brand, and Saturn, Hummer, and Saab will be gone. |
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 09:45:07 -0400, Eisboch wrote:
I keep repeating myself. Chapter 11 is the way to go. It would allow renegotiation of *all* contracts including debt, suppliers and union under the guidance of a federal bankruptcy court to ensure fairness. It also appears that the White House is finally coming around to the same conclusion. Or, something to be considered, Obama just gave GM a pretty good bargaining chip. If any of the co-parties were holding out for a better deal with government money flowing, they just got a wake-up call. Deal with GM now, in earnest, or deal with a bankruptcy Judge for X on the dollar. |
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:45:49 -0600, Canuck57 wrote:
We need a revolution. Say get rid of the senate, in this day and age let the people vote directly. It is much harder to corrupt 330M normal people than to corrupt just a few hundred senators and congress people. It isn't like a mule has to go from California to DC in 4 weeks like 250 years ago. We need democracy to go right to the people, none of this corruption for 3 years and repent just before an election crap. Yeah, mob rule, that's the ticket. Our forefathers founded a Republic, and IMO correctly so. There's an easier way to rid ourselves of corruption, vote the bums out. I'd also suggest campaign finance reform. If we eliminate the incestuous relationship between campaign finance and corporate welfare, we can demand that our politicians do our work, not spend their time looking for $$ to get them reelected. |
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thunder wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:45:49 -0600, Canuck57 wrote: We need a revolution. Say get rid of the senate, in this day and age let the people vote directly. It is much harder to corrupt 330M normal people than to corrupt just a few hundred senators and congress people. It isn't like a mule has to go from California to DC in 4 weeks like 250 years ago. We need democracy to go right to the people, none of this corruption for 3 years and repent just before an election crap. Yeah, mob rule, that's the ticket. Our forefathers founded a Republic, and IMO correctly so. There's an easier way to rid ourselves of corruption, vote the bums out. I'd also suggest campaign finance reform. If we eliminate the incestuous relationship between campaign finance and corporate welfare, we can demand that our politicians do our work, not spend their time looking for $$ to get them reelected. Conservatives like mob rule, because they think with the help of riler-uppers like Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, et al, they can control the mob and shape what passes for thinking. -- Palin & Bachmann in 2012 - All Stupidity All the Time |
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thunder wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:02:08 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:04:12 -0400, wrote: Dump Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Gmc. Keep Chevy and Cadillac. That overstuffed Corp needs to get lean, mean, and green in order to survive. ( An admittedly oversimplistic approach) Buick has been the best of the bunch for quality, something that Detroit could use a little more of. It's my understanding that Buick will be kept. It is considered one of GM's "core" brands, along with Chevrolet, Cadillac, and GMC. Pontiac will be shrunk to a niche brand, and Saturn, Hummer, and Saab will be gone. When Saturn was first announced, I had high hopes for the idea. I've not followed the brand, but it seems to have fallen flat. I wonder why. No loss on Hummer, and Saab has become just another car brand, instead of a low volume manufacturer that appealed to iconoclasts. -- Palin & Bachmann in 2012 - All Stupidity All the Time |
Latest on GM unheavals...
"HK" wrote in message m... Don White wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... FWIW, I wouldn't join the union, and advised new teachers not to do so. The 'legal protection' which was a big union selling point was available through home owners insurance as a rider. The local steward wasn't too happy with me, -- John H Neither were the students from what I hear! It figures that Herring was a freeloading scumbag, sucking down benefits others worked for, but unwilling to pay his share of the costs. Typical , working for the army all his life...I doubt he even paid for his own ass wipe. |
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thunder wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:02:08 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:04:12 -0400, wrote: Dump Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Gmc. Keep Chevy and Cadillac. That overstuffed Corp needs to get lean, mean, and green in order to survive. ( An admittedly oversimplistic approach) Buick has been the best of the bunch for quality, something that Detroit could use a little more of. It's my understanding that Buick will be kept. It is considered one of GM's "core" brands, along with Chevrolet, Cadillac, and GMC. Pontiac will be shrunk to a niche brand, and Saturn, Hummer, and Saab will be gone. GMC = Trucks Chevy = Low end vehicles Buick = Mid-level vehicles Cadilac = High end vehicles. Everything else should be thrown in the crapper. |
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thunder wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:45:49 -0600, Canuck57 wrote: We need a revolution. Say get rid of the senate, in this day and age let the people vote directly. It is much harder to corrupt 330M normal people than to corrupt just a few hundred senators and congress people. It isn't like a mule has to go from California to DC in 4 weeks like 250 years ago. We need democracy to go right to the people, none of this corruption for 3 years and repent just before an election crap. Yeah, mob rule, that's the ticket. Our forefathers founded a Republic, and IMO correctly so. There's an easier way to rid ourselves of corruption, vote the bums out. I'd also suggest campaign finance reform. If we eliminate the incestuous relationship between campaign finance and corporate welfare, we can demand that our politicians do our work, not spend their time looking for $$ to get them reelected. Each entity registered with the IRS may make a maximum donation of $2500 per year to a political organization that is registered with the IRS. All donations are funneled through the IRS. No bundling of checks at work and passing them from the big boss to the Congressman or Senator. Even the influence field. |
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On Mar 31, 8:14*am, "Don White" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Don White wrote: "John H" wrote in message . .. FWIW, I wouldn't join the union, and advised new teachers not to do so. The 'legal protection' which was a big union selling point was available through home owners insurance as a rider. The local steward wasn't too happy with me, -- John H Neither were the students from what I hear! It figures that Herring was a freeloading scumbag, sucking down benefits others worked for, but unwilling to pay his share of the costs. Typical , working for the army all his life...I doubt he even paid for his own ass wipe.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You pay to have your ass wiped? Now THAT'S an "unheaval" |
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