About time.

What strikes me about Wagoner, is he was in a position to turn GM around,
good timing too as if he started in 2000 he had one good chance of turning
the GM dog around. To bad he wasted it. But I suspect the pigs around him,
board, VP and unions were a$$holes about it anyway. To make GM work, you
needed to come out swinging and do the hard things early.

But just sat around collecting $12M, in todays dollars that would be about
$96M in compensation. Nice pay for a Harvard boy sitting on his ass playing
big shot.


"HK" wrote in message
m...

DETROIT – General Motors Corp. Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner will step
down immediately at the request of the White House, administration
officials said Sunday. The news comes as President Obama prepares to
unveil additional restructuring efforts designed to save the domestic auto
industry.

The officials asked not to be identified because details of the
restructuring plan have not yet been made public. On Monday, Obama is to
announce plans to restructure GM and Chrysler LLC in exchange for
additional government loans. The companies have been living on $17.4
billion in government aid and have requested $21.6 billion more.

Wagoner, 56, joined the company in 1977, serving in several capacities in
the U.S., Brazil and Europe. He has been chairman and chief executive
since May 1, 2003.

Obama said Sunday that GM and Chrysler and all those with a stake in their
survival need to take more hard steps to help the struggling automakers
restructure for the future.

- - -

CEO's whose companies lose money year after year, whose companies fail to
come up with innovative products that do not do well in the marketplace,
and who depend upon taxpayer handouts should get the boot.

I want to see the big national banks broken up, and a wall of separation
set up between brokerage houses, banks, and insurance companies. The
conglomerate financial services companies do not benefit the general
public.

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"HK" wrote in message
m...

DETROIT - General Motors Corp. Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner will step
down immediately at the request of the White House, administration
officials said Sunday. The news comes as President Obama prepares to
unveil additional restructuring efforts designed to save the domestic
auto industry.

The officials asked not to be identified because details of the
restructuring plan have not yet been made public. On Monday, Obama is to
announce plans to restructure GM and Chrysler LLC in exchange for
additional government loans. The companies have been living on $17.4
billion in government aid and have requested $21.6 billion more.

Wagoner, 56, joined the company in 1977, serving in several capacities in
the U.S., Brazil and Europe. He has been chairman and chief executive
since May 1, 2003.

Obama said Sunday that GM and Chrysler and all those with a stake in
their survival need to take more hard steps to help the struggling
automakers restructure for the future.

- - -

CEO's whose companies lose money year after year, whose companies fail to
come up with innovative products that do not do well in the marketplace,
and who depend upon taxpayer handouts should get the boot.

I want to see the big national banks broken up, and a wall of separation
set up between brokerage houses, banks, and insurance companies. The
conglomerate financial services companies do not benefit the general
public.

Now will see how the government can run a auto company. Guess it can't be
much worse, or can it?

Government Motors in the New USSR.

But my guess is packaged chapter 11 with more government assistance from
taxpayers coast to coast.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...


"HK" wrote in message
m...


Since the taxpayers basically own GM, the chief representative of the
taxpayers should be able to tell GM's CEO that it is over. That company,
and many other corporations, need fresh blood capable of leading their
companies in new directions.



This is going to be interesting in terms of how it is handled.
I am not questioning the request for Wagner to step down, but I am
interested in how his replacement is selected.

To my knowledge (I might be wrong) the bailout money received to date was
not given in exchange for stock in GM. Basically the government money is
subordinated debt, just like a bank loan.
There's no voting rights associated with it.

"Requesting" him to step down is probably a condition for additional
bailout money.
That's perfectly legal. But for the White House (Obama) to install a new
CEO without a vote from the GM Board of Directors (and possibly a
shareholder's meeting and vote, if he is also on the board) might present
some interesting legal issues.

We'll have to see what happens.

Eisboch

GM is for all intensive purposes bankrupt. It would not be hard for a
government type to point that out to the most inept of board members their
liability in continuing the fraud and BS. And bond holders could be moving
too next week as 30 cents on the dollar is an insult, which broke down last
week for some bond holders. This is really coming down to chapter 11. It
is the only sane avenue left.

Eisboch wrote:


"HK" wrote in message
m...


Since the taxpayers basically own GM, the chief representative of the
taxpayers should be able to tell GM's CEO that it is over. That
company, and many other corporations, need fresh blood capable of
leading their companies in new directions.



This is going to be interesting in terms of how it is handled.
I am not questioning the request for Wagner to step down, but I am
interested in how his replacement is selected.

To my knowledge (I might be wrong) the bailout money received to date
was not given in exchange for stock in GM. Basically the government
money is subordinated debt, just like a bank loan.
There's no voting rights associated with it.

"Requesting" him to step down is probably a condition for additional
bailout money.
That's perfectly legal. But for the White House (Obama) to install a
new CEO without a vote from the GM Board of Directors (and possibly a
shareholder's meeting and vote, if he is also on the board) might
present some interesting legal issues.

We'll have to see what happens.

Eisboch


I haven't seen anything on the government naming a replacement CEO. If
it were up to me, I'd want a new board, too, since the present one
obviously is not competent.

Eisboch wrote:


"HK" wrote in message
m...


Since the taxpayers basically own GM, the chief representative of the
taxpayers should be able to tell GM's CEO that it is over. That
company, and many other corporations, need fresh blood capable of
leading their companies in new directions.



This is going to be interesting in terms of how it is handled.
I am not questioning the request for Wagner to step down, but I am
interested in how his replacement is selected.

To my knowledge (I might be wrong) the bailout money received to date
was not given in exchange for stock in GM. Basically the government
money is subordinated debt, just like a bank loan.
There's no voting rights associated with it.

"Requesting" him to step down is probably a condition for additional
bailout money.
That's perfectly legal. But for the White House (Obama) to install a
new CEO without a vote from the GM Board of Directors (and possibly a
shareholder's meeting and vote, if he is also on the board) might
present some interesting legal issues.

We'll have to see what happens.

Eisboch


We have to get away from the idea that these damned boards of directors
are competent. Absent evidence, I think they are not. And we have to
chop up huge companies whose failures can kill our economy. Hugeness is
not serving the public's interest.

Eisboch wrote:


"HK" wrote in message
m...


Since the taxpayers basically own GM, the chief representative of the
taxpayers should be able to tell GM's CEO that it is over. That
company, and many other corporations, need fresh blood capable of
leading their companies in new directions.



This is going to be interesting in terms of how it is handled.
I am not questioning the request for Wagner to step down, but I am
interested in how his replacement is selected.

To my knowledge (I might be wrong) the bailout money received to date
was not given in exchange for stock in GM. Basically the government
money is subordinated debt, just like a bank loan.
There's no voting rights associated with it.

"Requesting" him to step down is probably a condition for additional
bailout money.
That's perfectly legal. But for the White House (Obama) to install a
new CEO without a vote from the GM Board of Directors (and possibly a
shareholder's meeting and vote, if he is also on the board) might
present some interesting legal issues.

We'll have to see what happens.

What does it mean when management is the government in this situation?
What is a campaign contribution, by a union? Could it be bribery?

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:


"HK" wrote in message
m...


Since the taxpayers basically own GM, the chief representative of the
taxpayers should be able to tell GM's CEO that it is over. That
company, and many other corporations, need fresh blood capable of
leading their companies in new directions.



This is going to be interesting in terms of how it is handled.
I am not questioning the request for Wagner to step down, but I am
interested in how his replacement is selected.

To my knowledge (I might be wrong) the bailout money received to date
was not given in exchange for stock in GM. Basically the government
money is subordinated debt, just like a bank loan.
There's no voting rights associated with it.

"Requesting" him to step down is probably a condition for additional
bailout money.
That's perfectly legal. But for the White House (Obama) to install a
new CEO without a vote from the GM Board of Directors (and possibly a
shareholder's meeting and vote, if he is also on the board) might
present some interesting legal issues.

We'll have to see what happens.

Eisboch


We have to get away from the idea that these damned boards of directors
are competent. Absent evidence, I think they are not. And we have to chop
up huge companies whose failures can kill our economy. Hugeness is not
serving the public's interest.

Why? Even Buffett tried to control the idiots and could not. Shareholders
be dammed, they did what they wanted, porking.

The board too so needs to be fired it isn't funny. They should have put the
brakes on 8 years ago. Most are drunkards in someones pocket.

Hopefully Obama will send GM to chapter 11 where they too can get kicked
out. Maybe take some VPs too. GM needs a top down rapid management change.

"BAR" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:


"HK" wrote in message
m...


Since the taxpayers basically own GM, the chief representative of the
taxpayers should be able to tell GM's CEO that it is over. That
company, and many other corporations, need fresh blood capable of
leading their companies in new directions.



This is going to be interesting in terms of how it is handled.
I am not questioning the request for Wagner to step down, but I am
interested in how his replacement is selected.

To my knowledge (I might be wrong) the bailout money received to date
was not given in exchange for stock in GM. Basically the government
money is subordinated debt, just like a bank loan.
There's no voting rights associated with it.

"Requesting" him to step down is probably a condition for additional
bailout money.
That's perfectly legal. But for the White House (Obama) to install a
new CEO without a vote from the GM Board of Directors (and possibly a
shareholder's meeting and vote, if he is also on the board) might
present some interesting legal issues.

We'll have to see what happens.

What does it mean when management is the government in this situation?
What is a campaign contribution, by a union? Could it be bribery?

Doubtful. With GM debt so huge, and union members themselves will not
invest nor buy a GM (without a coupon) product it does not leave much.

More bailout money putting GM on a lifetime of bailouts and corporate
welfare to bailout rich, or let it do chapter 11 and possibly chapter 7.
The later is a whole lot cheaper but may not seem like it at first. But it
is also failr to do chapter 11 and quit the taxpayer rape.

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:


"HK" wrote in message
m...


Since the taxpayers basically own GM, the chief representative of the
taxpayers should be able to tell GM's CEO that it is over. That
company, and many other corporations, need fresh blood capable of
leading their companies in new directions.



This is going to be interesting in terms of how it is handled.
I am not questioning the request for Wagner to step down, but I am
interested in how his replacement is selected.

To my knowledge (I might be wrong) the bailout money received to date
was not given in exchange for stock in GM. Basically the government
money is subordinated debt, just like a bank loan.
There's no voting rights associated with it.

"Requesting" him to step down is probably a condition for additional
bailout money.
That's perfectly legal. But for the White House (Obama) to install a
new CEO without a vote from the GM Board of Directors (and possibly a
shareholder's meeting and vote, if he is also on the board) might
present some interesting legal issues.

We'll have to see what happens.

Eisboch


We have to get away from the idea that these damned boards of directors
are competent. Absent evidence, I think they are not. And we have to chop
up huge companies whose failures can kill our economy. Hugeness is not
serving the public's interest.

Incompetent Board or not, if this isn't handled correctly, the threatened
lawsuits against the government they were worried about with the AIG bonus
guys will pale in comparison to the lawsuits brought by GM stockholders.
*They* own the company, not the government or the taxpayers.

Chapter 11 is the vehicle (pun intended) to cleanly restructure the company.

Eisboch

"HK" wrote in message
m...

DETROIT – General Motors Corp. Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner will step
down immediately at the request of the White House, administration
officials said Sunday. The news comes as President Obama prepares to
unveil additional restructuring efforts designed to save the domestic auto
industry.

The officials asked not to be identified because details of the
restructuring plan have not yet been made public. On Monday, Obama is to
announce plans to restructure GM and Chrysler LLC in exchange for
additional government loans. The companies have been living on $17.4
billion in government aid and have requested $21.6 billion more.

Wagoner, 56, joined the company in 1977, serving in several capacities in
the U.S., Brazil and Europe. He has been chairman and chief executive
since May 1, 2003.

Obama said Sunday that GM and Chrysler and all those with a stake in their
survival need to take more hard steps to help the struggling automakers
restructure for the future.

- - -

CEO's whose companies lose money year after year, whose companies fail to
come up with innovative products that do not do well in the marketplace,
and who depend upon taxpayer handouts should get the boot.

I want to see the big national banks broken up, and a wall of separation
set up between brokerage houses, banks, and insurance companies. The
conglomerate financial services companies do not benefit the general
public.

What happened to the good old days when a government like ours would just
take the person "into custody", and they would never be seen or heard from
again? If they're going to practice Stalinism, they should go all the way.

Wusses.

Steve