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Yesterday, a poster answered my post where I bought some bottles of Johnson
outboard oil. IIRC, he said to be sure it was TC-W3. I looked on the bottles, and this is TC-W II. Now, I go googling, and come up with the terms two cycle and two stroke. To my understanding, they are the same, using a firing system that has no valves, and the oil/gas mixture goes on both sides of the piston, versus the four stroke where the crankcase oil is isolated from the combustion chamber, has a valve train, and it is called a four stroke. Never heard one referred to as a four cycle motor. Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? I've run a lot of oil and a lot of gas in a lot of engines. Only burned up one chain saw, and that was when I had too much beer and used straight gas in it. OOps. Other than that, I have never had a problem, and have to say I probably ran stuff a lot oilier than I should have, but that's better than the chain saw episode. Does this difference in oils really make a difference other than to anal personalities? What is the difference between type 2 and type 3 oil? Steve |
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SteveB wrote:
Yesterday, a poster answered my post where I bought some bottles of Johnson outboard oil. IIRC, he said to be sure it was TC-W3. I looked on the bottles, and this is TC-W II. Now, I go googling, and come up with the terms two cycle and two stroke. To my understanding, they are the same, using a firing system that has no valves, and the oil/gas mixture goes on both sides of the piston, versus the four stroke where the crankcase oil is isolated from the combustion chamber, has a valve train, and it is called a four stroke. Never heard one referred to as a four cycle motor. Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? I've run a lot of oil and a lot of gas in a lot of engines. Only burned up one chain saw, and that was when I had too much beer and used straight gas in it. OOps. Other than that, I have never had a problem, and have to say I probably ran stuff a lot oilier than I should have, but that's better than the chain saw episode. Does this difference in oils really make a difference other than to anal personalities? What is the difference between type 2 and type 3 oil? Steve I made suggestions to you about this earlier. The differences in two stroke oil types are significant. -- Appearing via Thunderbird on an iMac 3.06 or a Macbook Pro 2.4, running Mac OS 10.56, *or* Microsoft VISTA through BootCamp. |
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On Mar 17, 11:13*pm, "SteveB" wrote:
Yesterday, a poster answered my post where I bought some bottles of Johnson outboard oil. *IIRC, he said to be sure it was TC-W3. I looked on the bottles, and this is TC-W II. Now, I go googling, and come up with the terms two cycle and two stroke. *To my understanding, they are the same, using a firing system that has no valves, and the oil/gas mixture goes on both sides of the piston, versus the four stroke where the crankcase oil is isolated from the combustion chamber, has a valve train, and it is called a four stroke. *Never heard one referred to as a four cycle motor. Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? I've run a lot of oil and a lot of gas in a lot of engines. *Only burned up one chain saw, and that was when I had too much beer and used straight gas in it. *OOps. *Other than that, I have never had a problem, and have to say I probably ran stuff a lot oilier than I should have, but that's better than the chain saw episode. Does this difference in oils really make a difference other than to anal personalities? *What is the difference between type 2 and type 3 oil? Steve In fact the 3 spec was published in 94 so your 89 engine could not have required it. Will it be the end of the world if you run that type 2 oil through your outboard? No. You could save it for the home tools if you are still concerned. As to using too much, that's not a good thing either. Excessive oil will increase deposits on the pistons. You should mix the oil to the recomendations if the engine uses premix. |
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On Mar 18, 6:30*am, HK wrote:
SteveB wrote: Yesterday, a poster answered my post where I bought some bottles of Johnson outboard oil. *IIRC, he said to be sure it was TC-W3. I looked on the bottles, and this is TC-W II. Now, I go googling, and come up with the terms two cycle and two stroke.. *To my understanding, they are the same, using a firing system that has no valves, and the oil/gas mixture goes on both sides of the piston, versus the four stroke where the crankcase oil is isolated from the combustion chamber, has a valve train, and it is called a four stroke. *Never heard one referred to as a four cycle motor. Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? I've run a lot of oil and a lot of gas in a lot of engines. *Only burned up one chain saw, and that was when I had too much beer and used straight gas in it. *OOps. *Other than that, I have never had a problem, and have to say I probably ran stuff a lot oilier than I should have, but that's better than the chain saw episode. Does this difference in oils really make a difference other than to anal personalities? *What is the difference between type 2 and type 3 oil? Steve I made suggestions to you about this earlier. The differences in two stroke oil types are significant. -- Appearing via Thunderbird on an iMac 3.06 or a Macbook Pro 2.4, running Mac OS 10.56, *or* Microsoft VISTA through BootCamp.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Horse****. The only difference between 2 and 3 is that 3 has a tad bit more anti-carbon agent in it. Now, I know you will start your idiotic and childish name calling, so let's cut to the chase. Show me the "significant" differences. |
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wrote in message ... On Mar 18, 6:30 am, HK wrote: SteveB wrote: Yesterday, a poster answered my post where I bought some bottles of Johnson outboard oil. IIRC, he said to be sure it was TC-W3. I looked on the bottles, and this is TC-W II. Now, I go googling, and come up with the terms two cycle and two stroke. To my understanding, they are the same, using a firing system that has no valves, and the oil/gas mixture goes on both sides of the piston, versus the four stroke where the crankcase oil is isolated from the combustion chamber, has a valve train, and it is called a four stroke. Never heard one referred to as a four cycle motor. Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? I've run a lot of oil and a lot of gas in a lot of engines. Only burned up one chain saw, and that was when I had too much beer and used straight gas in it. OOps. Other than that, I have never had a problem, and have to say I probably ran stuff a lot oilier than I should have, but that's better than the chain saw episode. Does this difference in oils really make a difference other than to anal personalities? What is the difference between type 2 and type 3 oil? Steve I made suggestions to you about this earlier. The differences in two stroke oil types are significant. -- Appearing via Thunderbird on an iMac 3.06 or a Macbook Pro 2.4, running Mac OS 10.56, *or* Microsoft VISTA through BootCamp.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Horse****. The only difference between 2 and 3 is that 3 has a tad bit more anti-carbon agent in it. Now, I know you will start your idiotic and childish name calling, so let's cut to the chase. Show me the "significant" differences. --------------------------- He can use either oil if his outboard is of an 80's vintage. The Type III oil is backwards compatible for engines that originally called for Type II. Eisboch |
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On Mar 18, 8:35*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message ... On Mar 18, 6:30 am, HK wrote: SteveB wrote: Yesterday, a poster answered my post where I bought some bottles of Johnson outboard oil. IIRC, he said to be sure it was TC-W3. I looked on the bottles, and this is TC-W II. Now, I go googling, and come up with the terms two cycle and two stroke. To my understanding, they are the same, using a firing system that has no valves, and the oil/gas mixture goes on both sides of the piston, versus the four stroke where the crankcase oil is isolated from the combustion chamber, has a valve train, and it is called a four stroke. Never heard one referred to as a four cycle motor. Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? I've run a lot of oil and a lot of gas in a lot of engines. Only burned up one chain saw, and that was when I had too much beer and used straight gas in it. OOps. Other than that, I have never had a problem, and have to say I probably ran stuff a lot oilier than I should have, but that's better than the chain saw episode. Does this difference in oils really make a difference other than to anal personalities? What is the difference between type 2 and type 3 oil? Steve I made suggestions to you about this earlier. The differences in two stroke oil types are significant. -- Appearing via Thunderbird on an iMac 3.06 or a Macbook Pro 2.4, running Mac OS 10.56, *or* Microsoft VISTA through BootCamp.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Horse****. The only difference between 2 and 3 is that 3 has a tad bit more anti-carbon agent in it. Now, I know you will start your idiotic and childish name calling, so let's cut to the chase. Show me the "significant" differences. --------------------------- He can use either oil if his outboard is of an 80's vintage. *The Type III oil is backwards compatible for engines that originally called for Type II. Eisboch- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - True. I use the wally world 2 stroke oil in our pwc. I'm not buying "expensive" oil to get used once and burned :-) |
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"Dave Brown" wrote in message
... SteveB wrote: Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? Very Quickly then... TCW = Two cycle water cooled. That means it's an 'ashless' oil and should NEVER be run in PWC type engines. It also means you NEVER run a lawnmower or chain saw oil in your outboard. I am NOT going to entertain debate about what's hype what's crap etc. I will simply state the following: I have been inside engines for all of my adult life (and all my teens too I guess) and can tell you there IS a difference. Just because an oil meets the spec, doesn't mean it's the best oil you can buy. OEM oils have more beneficial additives in them than straight spec non-OEM stuff. Do they make their own oil? No, but they require the oil companies to make their oil to their spec, and further prevent them from selling that spec oil as aftermarket. Does it cost that much extra to make? Nope, but there is no middle ground. You want their special additive packages that costs an extra nickel, you get to pay through the nose - no argument there. In final answer to your question, if you have TCW-2 oil, it's VERY old and worth 50 cents less than you paid for it. ;-) Now stop being so damn cheap and go enjoy your boat will ya? ;-) -- Total tripe. Straight from the yamaha pwc manual "if yamalube is not available, any twc3 oil may be used.". You're right, nothing to debate, you're just plain wrong. Hell, we were running ashless oil in our dirt bikes 30 years ago. And there's nothing different about the manufacturer brand oil except the price, you pay through the nose for it. |
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"jamesgangnc" wrote in message ... "Dave Brown" wrote in message ... SteveB wrote: Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? Very Quickly then... TCW = Two cycle water cooled. That means it's an 'ashless' oil and should NEVER be run in PWC type engines. It also means you NEVER run a lawnmower or chain saw oil in your outboard. I am NOT going to entertain debate about what's hype what's crap etc. I will simply state the following: I have been inside engines for all of my adult life (and all my teens too I guess) and can tell you there IS a difference. Just because an oil meets the spec, doesn't mean it's the best oil you can buy. OEM oils have more beneficial additives in them than straight spec non-OEM stuff. Do they make their own oil? No, but they require the oil companies to make their oil to their spec, and further prevent them from selling that spec oil as aftermarket. Does it cost that much extra to make? Nope, but there is no middle ground. You want their special additive packages that costs an extra nickel, you get to pay through the nose - no argument there. In final answer to your question, if you have TCW-2 oil, it's VERY old and worth 50 cents less than you paid for it. ;-) Now stop being so damn cheap and go enjoy your boat will ya? ;-) -- Total tripe. Straight from the yamaha pwc manual "if yamalube is not available, any twc3 oil may be used.". You're right, nothing to debate, you're just plain wrong. Hell, we were running ashless oil in our dirt bikes 30 years ago. And there's nothing different about the manufacturer brand oil except the price, you pay through the nose for it. I don't know. I think different "blenders" may have better quality control, etc. There is (or used to be) a law that required manufacturers to supply consumables like oil for free, *if* the manufacturer specified a specific brand name as being the only type that could be used. That may be the reason for the blurb in your Yamaha manual. I had an '06 BMW M5 that BMW *required* a special Mobil 1 synthetic blend designed for racing engines. The 500 hp M5 engine drank oil like it drank gas and required frequent oil replacement. I thought the BMW dealer was being nice by giving me oil free whenever I needed any, but it turns out they were required by law to do so. Eisboch |
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SteveB wrote:
Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? Very Quickly then... TCW = Two cycle water cooled. That means it's an 'ashless' oil and should NEVER be run in PWC type engines. It also means you NEVER run a lawnmower or chain saw oil in your outboard. I am NOT going to entertain debate about what's hype what's crap etc. I will simply state the following: I have been inside engines for all of my adult life (and all my teens too I guess) and can tell you there IS a difference. Just because an oil meets the spec, doesn't mean it's the best oil you can buy. OEM oils have more beneficial additives in them than straight spec non-OEM stuff. Do they make their own oil? No, but they require the oil companies to make their oil to their spec, and further prevent them from selling that spec oil as aftermarket. Does it cost that much extra to make? Nope, but there is no middle ground. You want their special additive packages that costs an extra nickel, you get to pay through the nose - no argument there. In final answer to your question, if you have TCW-2 oil, it's VERY old and worth 50 cents less than you paid for it. ;-) Now stop being so damn cheap and go enjoy your boat will ya? ;-) -- Regards, Dave Brown Brown's Marina Ltd http://brownsmarina.com/ |
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jamesgangnc wrote:
Total tripe. Straight from the yamaha pwc manual "if yamalube is not available, any twc3 oil may be used.". You're right, nothing to debate, you're just plain wrong. Hell, we were running ashless oil in our dirt bikes 30 years ago. And there's nothing different about the manufacturer brand oil except the price, you pay through the nose for it. James, Please accept my sincere apologies for not following what is now normal decorum in this NG. I do my best to participate when I think I can add meaningful insight to those who seek it, and I bow out when it's clear people want to draw me into something else. As an aside, BRP is quite specific in their Sea-Doo manuals about TCW-3 oils NOT be used as alternatives, but since I am not a PWC dealer I shall step aside to let you have the floor on this matter if you wish. A quick thank you is in order as well. I took a quick trip down memory lane by googling my name in reference to this Newsgroup and found some stuff from the 90's. -- Regards, Dave Brown Brown's Marina Ltd http://brownsmarina.com/ |
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On Mar 18, 10:10*am, Dave Brown wrote:
SteveB wrote: Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? Very Quickly then... TCW = Two cycle water cooled. *That means it's an 'ashless' oil and should NEVER be run in PWC type engines. It also means you NEVER run a lawnmower or chain saw oil in your outboard. *I am NOT going to entertain debate about what's hype what's crap etc. I will simply state the following: I have been inside engines for all of my adult life (and all my teens too I guess) and can tell you there IS a difference. Just because an oil meets the spec, doesn't mean it's the best oil you can buy. OEM oils have more beneficial additives in them than straight spec non-OEM stuff. Do they make their own oil? No, but they require the oil companies to make their oil to their spec, and further prevent them from selling that spec oil as aftermarket. Does it cost that much extra to make? Nope, but there is no middle ground. You want their special additive packages that costs an extra nickel, you get to pay through the nose - no argument there. I'm not going to debate you either, but there are a few other points to ponder... The additive package is specified by the OEM, but that doesn't mean it's any better that the oil company's own additive mixture. In fact, the motor OEM really doesn't have any reason to make their motor last any longer than the warranty period... they make far more money on motor sales than oil sales. The oil manufacturers, i.e Penzoil, *do* rely on their reputation as an oil supplier. They *do* have a reason to make good oil. It's their main business. Add another 2 cents of good additives above the OEM package and they're good to go. The OEM don't really "require" anyone to do anything when making their OEM oil, anyway. They go out for bid on a certain color oil bottle with the logo placed just so, with, in your words, an additive package that "costs an extra nickel", then they charge twice what the oil company's TC-W3 goes for. All for the LOWEST BID oil to be used in a motor that they hope wears out soon so you'll buy another. Now stop being so damn cheap and go enjoy your boat will ya? ;-) Being a dealer and making your living selling marine equipment and overpriced oil, would you be a bit biased in your recommendation? Nah... :-) Regards, * * * Dave Brown * * * Brown's Marina Ltd * * *http://brownsmarina.com/ |
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On Mar 18, 5:32*pm, Dave Brown wrote:
You have no idea of the warranty issues we have with aftermarket parts/products and if people think they're 'just as good' they should stop in and see the pile of crap from China sitting on my office floor that the aftermarket guys are fighting me on. I refuse to use it anymore. I agree on the influx of aftermarket cheap Chinese crap, but that's not what we're talking about. Penzoil/Mobil/Havoline/whatever TC-W3 isn't aftermarket, it's top-shelf, brand name oil. I don't know who made the oil in the Yamalube bottle. It could even be a Chinese oil company that got the contract this year. Being a dealer and making your living selling marine equipment and overpriced oil, would you be a bit biased in your recommendation? Nah... :-) I know that's tongue in cheek jab, but I really do get tired of having to defend my position regarding bias. Not attacking you, just presenting an opposing view, with a good- natured, and maybe partially valid jab. I wouldn't expect you to sell a product if you didn't believe in it, no matter how well (or un) founded those beliefs are. :-) Happy boating! |
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wrote:
The additive package is specified by the OEM, but that doesn't mean it's any better that the oil company's own additive mixture. Here's one example to at least show my position. BRP's TCW-3 contains the additive "Carbon Guard" which is also available separately as a bottled product through its dealers. It's a product I not only believe in, it's what I use to clean my pistons when rebuilding. I have said lots on this topic before and I'm afraid I just don't have the time to re-type it all again - where is Dejanews when you need it? ;-) In fact, the motor OEM really doesn't have any reason to make their motor last any longer than the warranty period... they make far more money on motor sales than oil sales. The oil manufacturers, i.e Penzoil, *do* rely on their reputation as an oil supplier. They *do* have a reason to make good oil. It's their main business. Add another 2 cents of good additives above the OEM package and they're good to go. Yes and no. The oil companies RARELY get blamed for an oil failure, and the truth is, there are few if any true oil quality related failures in the short term in my business. Where I see the result is years of using crappy oil that causes carbon build up and 'coking' which cause detonation and piston failure. People NEVER blame the oil for that, it's always the OEM that takes it in the pants at the watering hole. The OEM don't really "require" anyone to do anything when making their OEM oil, anyway. They go out for bid on a certain color oil bottle with the logo placed just so, with, in your words, an additive package that "costs an extra nickel", then they charge twice what the oil company's TC-W3 goes for. All for the LOWEST BID oil to be used in a motor that they hope wears out soon so you'll buy another. I would have to agree to disagree then. I do honestly agree that the oil is better, but concede the cost of the better product is out of proportion to the price. I would still pay to get it. You have no idea of the warranty issues we have with aftermarket parts/products and if people think they're 'just as good' they should stop in and see the pile of crap from China sitting on my office floor that the aftermarket guys are fighting me on. I refuse to use it anymore. Being a dealer and making your living selling marine equipment and overpriced oil, would you be a bit biased in your recommendation? Nah... :-) I know that's tongue in cheek jab, but I really do get tired of having to defend my position regarding bias. This NG is international in scope and what I say in here doesn't make me a single penny (although there is certainly a cost to productivity at my desk). I have spent most of my life educating boaters about the correct choices to make, and in the end it really and truly doesn't matter to me what choice they make once they have full information. I'd like to think my contributions to this NG (when I can filter through the crap) merit at least some indication of my credibility, plus I have "Tech Tip" pages where again, I didn't make a penny writing any of it, nor do I make anything every time someone reads and benefits from it (they are the busiest pages on my site BTW). I better get back to work now.... ;-) -- Regards, Dave Brown Brown's Marina Ltd http://brownsmarina.com/ |
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"HK" wrote in message ... SteveB wrote: Yesterday, a poster answered my post where I bought some bottles of Johnson outboard oil. IIRC, he said to be sure it was TC-W3. I looked on the bottles, and this is TC-W II. Now, I go googling, and come up with the terms two cycle and two stroke. To my understanding, they are the same, using a firing system that has no valves, and the oil/gas mixture goes on both sides of the piston, versus the four stroke where the crankcase oil is isolated from the combustion chamber, has a valve train, and it is called a four stroke. Never heard one referred to as a four cycle motor. Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? I've run a lot of oil and a lot of gas in a lot of engines. Only burned up one chain saw, and that was when I had too much beer and used straight gas in it. OOps. Other than that, I have never had a problem, and have to say I probably ran stuff a lot oilier than I should have, but that's better than the chain saw episode. Does this difference in oils really make a difference other than to anal personalities? What is the difference between type 2 and type 3 oil? Steve I made suggestions to you about this earlier. The differences in two stroke oil types are significant. I am sorry. I had a TBI five years ago, and forget easily. I didn't want to put you out by having you have to comment on it again. Sorry. Steve |
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"Dave Brown" wrote in message ... SteveB wrote: Can someone give me the short answer on if this TC-WII Johnson oil is good to use in my '89 Merc 4 cyl TWO STROKE motor? Is there a discernable difference between TC-WII and TC-W3 oil? Very Quickly then... TCW = Two cycle water cooled. That means it's an 'ashless' oil and should NEVER be run in PWC type engines. It also means you NEVER run a lawnmower or chain saw oil in your outboard. I am NOT going to entertain debate about what's hype what's crap etc. I will simply state the following: I have been inside engines for all of my adult life (and all my teens too I guess) and can tell you there IS a difference. Just because an oil meets the spec, doesn't mean it's the best oil you can buy. OEM oils have more beneficial additives in them than straight spec non-OEM stuff. Do they make their own oil? No, but they require the oil companies to make their oil to their spec, and further prevent them from selling that spec oil as aftermarket. Does it cost that much extra to make? Nope, but there is no middle ground. You want their special additive packages that costs an extra nickel, you get to pay through the nose - no argument there. In final answer to your question, if you have TCW-2 oil, it's VERY old and worth 50 cents less than you paid for it. ;-) Now stop being so damn cheap and go enjoy your boat will ya? ;-) -- Regards, Dave Brown Brown's Marina Ltd http://brownsmarina.com/ Thank you. Very good advice. Waiting for a little time off to take the boat to the lake and do a shakedown cruise. Steve |
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"Dave Brown" wrote in message news:P_CdnQDU9LlHxFzUnZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@wtccommunica tions.ca... wrote: The additive package is specified by the OEM, but that doesn't mean it's any better that the oil company's own additive mixture. Here's one example to at least show my position. BRP's TCW-3 contains the additive "Carbon Guard" which is also available separately as a bottled product through its dealers. It's a product I not only believe in, it's what I use to clean my pistons when rebuilding. I have said lots on this topic before and I'm afraid I just don't have the time to re-type it all again - where is Dejanews when you need it? ;-) In fact, the motor OEM really doesn't have any reason to make their motor last any longer than the warranty period... they make far more money on motor sales than oil sales. The oil manufacturers, i.e Penzoil, *do* rely on their reputation as an oil supplier. They *do* have a reason to make good oil. It's their main business. Add another 2 cents of good additives above the OEM package and they're good to go. Yes and no. The oil companies RARELY get blamed for an oil failure, and the truth is, there are few if any true oil quality related failures in the short term in my business. Where I see the result is years of using crappy oil that causes carbon build up and 'coking' which cause detonation and piston failure. People NEVER blame the oil for that, it's always the OEM that takes it in the pants at the watering hole. The OEM don't really "require" anyone to do anything when making their OEM oil, anyway. They go out for bid on a certain color oil bottle with the logo placed just so, with, in your words, an additive package that "costs an extra nickel", then they charge twice what the oil company's TC-W3 goes for. All for the LOWEST BID oil to be used in a motor that they hope wears out soon so you'll buy another. I would have to agree to disagree then. I do honestly agree that the oil is better, but concede the cost of the better product is out of proportion to the price. I would still pay to get it. You have no idea of the warranty issues we have with aftermarket parts/products and if people think they're 'just as good' they should stop in and see the pile of crap from China sitting on my office floor that the aftermarket guys are fighting me on. I refuse to use it anymore. Being a dealer and making your living selling marine equipment and overpriced oil, would you be a bit biased in your recommendation? Nah... :-) I know that's tongue in cheek jab, but I really do get tired of having to defend my position regarding bias. This NG is international in scope and what I say in here doesn't make me a single penny (although there is certainly a cost to productivity at my desk). I have spent most of my life educating boaters about the correct choices to make, and in the end it really and truly doesn't matter to me what choice they make once they have full information. I'd like to think my contributions to this NG (when I can filter through the crap) merit at least some indication of my credibility, plus I have "Tech Tip" pages where again, I didn't make a penny writing any of it, nor do I make anything every time someone reads and benefits from it (they are the busiest pages on my site BTW). I better get back to work now.... ;-) -- Regards, Dave Brown Brown's Marina Ltd http://brownsmarina.com/ The way I feel about it...outboard motors are too costly to be nickel & diming the oil to use. On the 2003 Johnson 25... I go to the dealer for my gearcase oil and will do the same for my 2 stroke oil after I use up the two gallons Tom gave me. Getting hard to find that heavy weight gear oil for my 1954 British Seagull 40 Plus. Someone said you can get the proper weight lubricant at a farm supply store. Hope that's good enough for marine use. |
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"Dave Brown" wrote in message
news:P_CdnQDU9LlHxFzUnZ2dnUVZ_sninZ2d@wtccommunica tions.ca... wrote: The additive package is specified by the OEM, but that doesn't mean it's any better that the oil company's own additive mixture. Here's one example to at least show my position. BRP's TCW-3 contains the additive "Carbon Guard" which is also available separately as a bottled product through its dealers. It's a product I not only believe in, it's what I use to clean my pistons when rebuilding. I have said lots on this topic before and I'm afraid I just don't have the time to re-type it all again - where is Dejanews when you need it? ;-) In fact, the motor OEM really doesn't have any reason to make their motor last any longer than the warranty period... they make far more money on motor sales than oil sales. The oil manufacturers, i.e Penzoil, *do* rely on their reputation as an oil supplier. They *do* have a reason to make good oil. It's their main business. Add another 2 cents of good additives above the OEM package and they're good to go. Yes and no. The oil companies RARELY get blamed for an oil failure, and the truth is, there are few if any true oil quality related failures in the short term in my business. Where I see the result is years of using crappy oil that causes carbon build up and 'coking' which cause detonation and piston failure. People NEVER blame the oil for that, it's always the OEM that takes it in the pants at the watering hole. The OEM don't really "require" anyone to do anything when making their OEM oil, anyway. They go out for bid on a certain color oil bottle with the logo placed just so, with, in your words, an additive package that "costs an extra nickel", then they charge twice what the oil company's TC-W3 goes for. All for the LOWEST BID oil to be used in a motor that they hope wears out soon so you'll buy another. I would have to agree to disagree then. I do honestly agree that the oil is better, but concede the cost of the better product is out of proportion to the price. I would still pay to get it. You have no idea of the warranty issues we have with aftermarket parts/products and if people think they're 'just as good' they should stop in and see the pile of crap from China sitting on my office floor that the aftermarket guys are fighting me on. I refuse to use it anymore. Being a dealer and making your living selling marine equipment and overpriced oil, would you be a bit biased in your recommendation? Nah... :-) I know that's tongue in cheek jab, but I really do get tired of having to defend my position regarding bias. This NG is international in scope and what I say in here doesn't make me a single penny (although there is certainly a cost to productivity at my desk). I have spent most of my life educating boaters about the correct choices to make, and in the end it really and truly doesn't matter to me what choice they make once they have full information. I'd like to think my contributions to this NG (when I can filter through the crap) merit at least some indication of my credibility, plus I have "Tech Tip" pages where again, I didn't make a penny writing any of it, nor do I make anything every time someone reads and benefits from it (they are the busiest pages on my site BTW). I better get back to work now.... ;-) -- Regards, Dave Brown Brown's Marina Ltd http://brownsmarina.com/ And wait for it....... What's on side of the briggs and stratton oil bottle from lowes. That's right, ASHLESS. |
Translation to English, please ........
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:23:05 -0400, "jamesgangnc"
wrote: And wait for it....... What's on side of the briggs and stratton oil bottle from lowes. That's right, ASHLESS. I recall ads for somebody's, Shell I think, AD aviation oil in Flying back in 58 or so. I used it in my Corvair in 69. Casady |
Translation to English, please ........
On Mar 18, 5:32*pm, Dave Brown wrote:
wrote: The additive package is specified by the OEM, but that doesn't mean it's any better that the oil company's own additive mixture. Here's one example to at least show my position. BRP's TCW-3 contains the additive "Carbon Guard" which is also available separately as a bottled product through its dealers. It's a product I not only believe in, it's what I use to clean my pistons when rebuilding. I've also used it as an additive to the gas on my old 2 stroke boat. Bear in mind that "Carbon Guard" is just a brand name for some chemicals that reduce carbon buildup. I just looked at a bottle of Penzoil TC-W3 oil and it, too has additives to reduce carbon buildup. Likely the same chemicals, just not from the company that trademarked the name. They also test to a higher standard of lubricity to reduce scuffing of cylinder walls and rings. Regards, * * * Dave Brown * * * Brown's Marina Ltd * * *http://brownsmarina.com/ |
Translation to English, please ........
On Mar 18, 4:42*pm, HK wrote:
Dave Brown wrote: wrote: The additive package is specified by the OEM, but that doesn't mean it's any better that the oil company's own additive mixture. Here's one example to at least show my position. BRP's TCW-3 contains the additive "Carbon Guard" which is also available separately as a bottled product through its dealers. It's a product I not only believe in, it's what I use to clean my pistons when rebuilding. I have said lots on this topic before and I'm afraid I just don't have the time to re-type it all again - where is Dejanews when you need it? ;-) In fact, the motor OEM really doesn't have any reason to make their motor last any longer than the warranty period... they make far more money on motor sales than oil sales. *The oil manufacturers, i.e Penzoil, *do* rely on their reputation as an oil supplier. *They *do* have a reason to make good oil. *It's their main business. *Add another 2 cents of good additives above the OEM package and they're good to go. Yes and no. The oil companies RARELY get blamed for an oil failure, and the truth is, there are few if any true oil quality related failures in the short term in my business. Where I see the result is years of using crappy oil that causes carbon build up and 'coking' which cause detonation and piston failure. People NEVER blame the oil for that, it's always the OEM that takes it in the pants at the watering hole. The OEM don't really "require" anyone to do anything when making their OEM oil, anyway. *They go out for bid on a certain color oil bottle with the logo placed just so, with, in your words, an additive package that "costs an extra nickel", then they charge twice what the oil company's TC-W3 goes for. *All for the LOWEST BID oil to be used in a motor that they hope wears out soon so you'll buy another. I would have to agree to disagree then. I do honestly agree that the oil is better, but concede the cost of the better product is out of proportion to the price. I would still pay to get it. You have no idea of the warranty issues we have with aftermarket parts/products and if people think they're 'just as good' they should stop in and see the pile of crap from China sitting on my office floor that the aftermarket guys are fighting me on. I refuse to use it anymore. Being a dealer and making your living selling marine equipment and overpriced oil, would you be a bit biased in your recommendation? Nah... :-) I know that's tongue in cheek jab, but I really do get tired of having to defend my position regarding bias. This NG is international in scope and what I say in here doesn't make me a single penny (although there is certainly a cost to productivity at my desk). I have spent most of my life educating boaters about the correct choices to make, and in the end it really and truly doesn't matter to me what choice they make once they have full information. I'd like to think my contributions to this NG (when I can filter through the crap) merit at least some indication of my credibility, plus I have "Tech Tip" pages where again, I didn't make a penny writing any of it, nor do I make anything every time someone reads and benefits from it (they are the busiest pages on my site BTW). I better get back to work now.... ;-) Crikey! (my nod to internationalism) I had a series of Merc two cycles, and never ever used used anything except the manufacturer's correct and branded oil. The two dealers I patronized bought their oil in bulk and decanted it into one gallon jugs. I don't recall the price difference between the Merc-branded oil and the non-motor-brand stuff, but it wasn't very significant. More important, I didn't think the price of the oil was a significant factor in the considerations of what to use in an $8000 (at the time) outboard motor. I have a four cycle outboard now. The dealer changes the oil and filter for me at the end of the season, and I can change both mid-season if need be. I believe the selling price of my current engine is about $11000 or so. Too expensive for my puttering. If it is under the hood, I let the dealer handle it. -- Appearing via Thunderbird on an iMac 3.06 or a Macbook Pro 2.4, running Mac OS 10.56, *or* Microsoft VISTA through BootCamp.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Wait a minute. You have claimed to have a degree in Mechanical Engineering and are afraid to do anything to something as simple as an outboard motor?????? Appearing via Google on an ordinary laptop or an ordinary desktop running Windows XP *or* Windows XP Media |
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On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:42:24 -0400, HK wrote:
considerations of what to use in an $8000 (at the time) outboard motor. I have a four cycle outboard now. The dealer changes the oil and filter for me at the end of the season, and I can change both mid-season if need be. I believe the selling price of my current engine is about $11000 or so. My wife's Lincoln has a 330 cid four cam 32 valve motor. It developed a leaky valve guide at 175k. We figured the handwriting was on the wall, and put in another motor for 5500. The replacement mill has a 75k warranty. Why are outboats so pricy? The motor in my wife's truck would make a nice inboard motor, for less than 11 000. In the Navigator they rate it at 300 hp. Casady |
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On Mar 29, 2:46*pm, "A Real Boater" wrote:
On Mar 18, 2009, wrote: Horse****. The only difference between 2 and 3 is that 3 has a tad bit more anti-carbon agent in it. Now, I know you will start your idiotic and childish name calling, so let's cut to the chase. Show me the "significant" differences. Wonderful. A pot-head giving a beered-up redneck advice on safe operation of an engine. Here's what you want to hear: Go ahead and use up your 10 year old crap-for-oil. It won't hurt your engine inspite of what everybody says. Happy? Can't prove me wrong, because I'm right. So, you insult like a little school girl. What makes you think I'm a "pot-head"? Have any proof of your wild allegations, or are you like Don and Harry, just lying? |
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