Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
m...
...are selling for the same amounts as "penny stocks" used to sell
for...

...what are penny stocks selling for?


My take on stock prices:

Stocks are now selling are prices that more closely reflect the
actual value of the companies that issued them, and the prices
they should have been selling for for the past two decades.
And who/what determines the actual value of stocks, your real
estate, your boat, your car, etc.?
The price of one's house (at least when you buy it new), car, boat,
commercial real estate, has little to do with the sort of
speculation and book-cooking done in connection with the sale of
corporate stocks, et cetera. Now, because of greed and outright
fraud in the lending, stock, insurance businesses, the value of just
about everything has gone down because far fewer people have the
wherewithal to buy.

I saw earlier today that Citibank shares were selling for less than
the ATM charges some banks charge.

Does anyone really think the value of shares will rise to where they
were a couple of years ago? Or that they should?
If stocks don't go up, look at all the retirees that will be working
at Wal-Mart till they just can't do it any longer. Many millions of
people have seen their 401Ks take a tremendous hit, money they were
counting on for retirement.
Oh, I understand the ramifications of the crash. I just believe the
share values of the past were grossly overinflated due to speculators,
those who feed and feed upon speculators, dishonest accounting firms
and dishonest corporate officials, banking, brokerage and insurance
industries, and the mal-, mis-, and nonfeasance of the regulatory
agencies under Bush.

Any small investors who in the future decide to participate again in
the corporate stock ponzi schemes should be very, very sceptical of
stock prices and what supposedly underpins P/E ratios.

Oh, and the Teamster's pension fund problems come to mind.

Once again, I will remind you and others that if you are a trustee on a
union pension fund and "mess around" with the funds, you are prosecuted,
and the financial losses are made good by the mandatory bond. The
bonding company typically works closely with prosecutors to try to
ensure time in the slammer for the perps.

Yeah, right.



Yeah, right, what? If you are a trustee on a union fund, you have to be
bonded. The bonding company will have your butt on a platter if there is
monkey business with the money.

Here you go, ****-for-brains:

http://www.dol.gov/esa/olms/regs/com.../bonding.htm#b


Here's an excerpt:

Who Must Be Bonded

Organizations

Every union covered by the LMRDA is subject to the bonding requirements
except for unions with property and annual receipts that do not exceed
$5,000 in value. Every trust in which a labor organization is interested
is covered by the bonding requirements regardless of the value of its
property and annual receipts.

Persons

Every officer, agent, shop steward, and other representative and employee
who handles funds or other property of a covered union or trust must be
bonded, including:

* elected union officers;
* key administrative personnel, whether elected or appointed (such as
business agents, heads of departments or major units, and organizers who
exercise substantial independent authority);
* trustees and key administrative personnel of trusts;
* salaried nonsupervisory professional staff of unions and trusts; and
* secretarial, clerical, and service personnel of unions and trusts.

***Before any new employees or officers may handle funds, they must be
bonded for an amount based upon the funds handled by their predecessors
during the last fiscal year. No additional bonding is required if a bond,
which meets the requirements of the LMRDA, is already in force to cover
them.***

If a person who is not bonded handles union funds, he or she is violating
the law. The person who assigns him or her those functions is also
violating the law.

Even as a local treasurer, I had to be bonded as per requirements of our
national Union.



Wow.

"HK" wrote in message
m...
...are selling for the same amounts as "penny stocks" used to sell for...

...what are penny stocks selling for?


My take on stock prices:

Stocks are now selling are prices that more closely reflect the actual
value of the companies that issued them, and the prices they should have
been selling for for the past two decades.

Given the risk associated with the US economic outlook, I would agree. The
market always seeks prices that reflect the future economic outlook.

And currently it is a bleak one. The depression is here to stay. Now that
the dow is under 7000 and appears to be staying there at it's new lows, it
is likely US government/bank actions will make this permanent.

If you think the corrupt big corporations are not in it with the
government to take things over - think again. Before I say more - I need
to put out full disclosure. I am in manufacturing. We have over 120
people working here. We are non-union and take care of those who work
for us. Our greatest asset are our people. We are a privately held
corporation - so we are the largest stockholders right here. (And
because of this with the down turn have voted not to have a dividend for
2008 so we can keep more people working.)

The more the government gets involved in regulations for business - the
better it is for the big corporations. Why? Because it hurts the small
guy who cannot absorb the costs of the regulations. This creates less
competition for the big guy and more income.

So how do they promote this to the people? The create a jealousy
between the have and have not's . They make it so that all who have any
kind of money are evil and must pay more. (Sound familiar?)


--
Dymphna
Message Origin: TRAVEL.com

"Dymphna" wrote in message
news

If you think the corrupt big corporations are not in it with the
government to take things over - think again. Before I say more - I need
to put out full disclosure. I am in manufacturing. We have over 120
people working here. We are non-union and take care of those who work
for us. Our greatest asset are our people. We are a privately held
corporation - so we are the largest stockholders right here. (And
because of this with the down turn have voted not to have a dividend for
2008 so we can keep more people working.)

The more the government gets involved in regulations for business - the
better it is for the big corporations. Why? Because it hurts the small
guy who cannot absorb the costs of the regulations. This creates less
competition for the big guy and more income.

So how do they promote this to the people? The create a jealousy
between the have and have not's . They make it so that all who have any
kind of money are evil and must pay more. (Sound familiar?)


--
Dymphna
Message Origin: TRAVEL.com



I couldn't disagree with you more. Many small manufacturing businesses are
subcontractors to big businesses for items that it doesn't make economic
sense for the big business to build themselves.
Quite often big business will go out of their way to support their small
subcontractors because they need them.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:

"Dymphna" wrote in message
news

If you think the corrupt big corporations are not in it with the
government to take things over - think again. Before I say more - I need
to put out full disclosure. I am in manufacturing. We have over 120
people working here. We are non-union and take care of those who work
for us. Our greatest asset are our people. We are a privately held
corporation - so we are the largest stockholders right here. (And
because of this with the down turn have voted not to have a dividend for
2008 so we can keep more people working.)

The more the government gets involved in regulations for business - the
better it is for the big corporations. Why? Because it hurts the small
guy who cannot absorb the costs of the regulations. This creates less
competition for the big guy and more income.

So how do they promote this to the people? The create a jealousy
between the have and have not's . They make it so that all who have any
kind of money are evil and must pay more. (Sound familiar?)


--
Dymphna
Message Origin: TRAVEL.com



I couldn't disagree with you more. Many small manufacturing businesses
are subcontractors to big businesses for items that it doesn't make
economic sense for the big business to build themselves.
Quite often big business will go out of their way to support their small
subcontractors because they need them.

Eisboch


Business regulations came and come about because businesses won't behave.

"HK" wrote in message
m...


Business regulations came and come about because businesses won't behave.


Of course. How silly of me. What was I thinking?

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...


Business regulations came and come about because businesses won't behave.


Of course. How silly of me. What was I thinking?

Eisboch

Oh, come on...you know how easy it would be to cite examples.
Here's an easy one: child labor regulations and laws.
Why do you think they came about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tY1gk6J6zc

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...


Business regulations came and come about because businesses won't
behave.


Of course. How silly of me. What was I thinking?

Eisboch

Oh, come on...you know how easy it would be to cite examples.
Here's an easy one: child labor regulations and laws.
Why do you think they came about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tY1gk6J6zc


Wake up. It's 2009.

Eisboch

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:26:09 -0500, Eisboch wrote:


Wake up. It's 2009.

Tell that to Nike.

http://www.albionmonitor.com/9606a/nikelabor.html

Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...


Business regulations came and come about because businesses won't
behave.


Of course. How silly of me. What was I thinking?

Eisboch

Oh, come on...you know how easy it would be to cite examples.
Here's an easy one: child labor regulations and laws.
Why do you think they came about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tY1gk6J6zc


Wake up. It's 2009.

Eisboch


Yeah...and in the last couple of weeks, we have...The Peanut Corporation
of America.