On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:20:57 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Wayne boats in the keys, and he could shed some light on it.
I'd bet that if was grounded he would get kedge off or get towed off
instead of tearing up the bed with his props.

If you run aground in the Keys you really do not want to call for help
if you can possibly avoid it. It will invite a lot of unwanted and
expensive attention.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:20:57 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Wayne boats in the keys, and he could shed some light on it.
I'd bet that if was grounded he would get kedge off or get towed off
instead of tearing up the bed with his props.

If you run aground in the Keys you really do not want to call for help
if you can possibly avoid it. It will invite a lot of unwanted and
expensive attention.


I remember reading an interesting story a few years ago regarding boat
damage to protected areas like sea grass and coral. I've forgotten the
details, but I remember the main issue.

In Admiralty Law, the responsibility for the damage stays with the boat, not
the boat's owner at the time of the occurrence. In the case involved, a
large pleasure boat caused damage to sea grass or something off the coast of
Florida. Before any legal action was taken against the owner, the boat was
sold.

The new owner was sued for the damage. He fought it in court for years but
eventually settled by paying (I think) around $20K which was a fraction of
the original monetary damages pursed by the government agency that brought
the lawsuit.

Eisboch

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:07:45 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

I remember reading an interesting story a few years ago regarding boat
damage to protected areas like sea grass and coral. I've forgotten the
details, but I remember the main issue.

In Admiralty Law, the responsibility for the damage stays with the boat, not
the boat's owner at the time of the occurrence. In the case involved, a
large pleasure boat caused damage to sea grass or something off the coast of
Florida. Before any legal action was taken against the owner, the boat was
sold.

The new owner was sued for the damage. He fought it in court for years but
eventually settled by paying (I think) around $20K which was a fraction of
the original monetary damages pursed by the government agency that brought
the lawsuit.

We were at Everglades Park ranger station at Flamingo (southern tip) a
few years ago and they were telling us that there was a large
sportfish stuck somewhere in Florida Bay that had been there for
months. The park service would not allow it to be salvaged unless
there was a guarantee of no sea grass damage and no one wanted to take
the risk.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:16:04 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:


We were at Everglades Park ranger station at Flamingo (southern tip) a
few years ago and they were telling us that there was a large sportfish
stuck somewhere in Florida Bay that had been there for months. The park
service would not allow it to be salvaged unless there was a guarantee
of no sea grass damage and no one wanted to take the risk.

Sometimes the park service comes across as Nazis. It's not like leaving
that boat there isn't going to cause any damage. The early settlers of
Flamingo must have been a hardy lot. I can't imagine living there before
the invention of Deet. ;-)

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:26:22 -0600, thunder
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:16:04 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:


We were at Everglades Park ranger station at Flamingo (southern tip) a
few years ago and they were telling us that there was a large sportfish
stuck somewhere in Florida Bay that had been there for months. The park
service would not allow it to be salvaged unless there was a guarantee
of no sea grass damage and no one wanted to take the risk.

Sometimes the park service comes across as Nazis. It's not like leaving
that boat there isn't going to cause any damage. The early settlers of
Flamingo must have been a hardy lot. I can't imagine living there before
the invention of Deet. ;-)

If the bugs don't get you the crocs will. We only go in the winter
months. There are some beautiful wilderness areas going north from
there.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:56:20 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:20:57 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Wayne boats in the keys, and he could shed some light on it.
I'd bet that if was grounded he would get kedge off or get towed off
instead of tearing up the bed with his props.

If you run aground in the Keys you really do not want to call for help
if you can possibly avoid it. It will invite a lot of unwanted and
expensive attention.

Well, the guy who powered off got $240k worth of attention.
And he was there for 2 days trying to get off, so it's no secret the
park service would be looking at the damage,
Doesn't sound fiscally responsible. Maybe he's a mortgage broker.
But I was hoping you would shed some light on what you would do if you
were grounded.
For instance if you couldn't back off, and it was near high tide,
would you try to kedge off?
I'm totally inexperienced with these grass fields.

--Vic

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:58:27 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

For instance if you couldn't back off, and it was near high tide,
would you try to kedge off?

It's difficult enough to kedge off a 5,000 lb boat, almost impossible
with 70,000 lbs. We try to avoid marginal water depths at high tide,
it being much more preferable to go exploring on half tide and rising.
If you are going slow and nudge the bottom it is usually easy to back
off. Otherwise the best strategy is to try and turn the boat towards
deep water and power it off. A dinghy with a large outboard can be
used as a mini tug boat to turn the boat in some cases. I know one
guy who is a full time cruiser on a boat with an 8 ft draft. He has
a 35 horse on his dinghy just for that purpose. It can be tempting to
try and power through a shallow spot but that can lead to big trouble
if it doesn't work out.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:27:40 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

We try to avoid marginal water depths at high tide,
it being much more preferable to go exploring on half tide and rising.

How do you "localize" tides when cruising?
I use local tide tables sometimes when fishing in Florida, and find
them reliable for that spot, but considerably off a few miles away.
Of course that's normally in estuary waters.
Is open water in the Keys consistent with one tide table?

--Vic

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:24:10 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Is open water in the Keys consistent with one tide table?

No, there are many different tide stations in the Keys. Most modern
chart plotters have that all built in but you could still do it the
old fashioned way with tide tables, station list, offsets, etc.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:02:45 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:24:10 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

How do you "localize" tides when cruising?

Read the mangroves and barnacles on poles to get current stage and
analyse flow to decide trend.
The tides are really strange back in the mangroves when wind and water
flowing in from upland will make a foot of difference and the
astronomical prediction is only a guideline.

That's what I do when fishing a canal back a couple miles from
Charlotte Harbor. The tide table for the harbor can be off at least
an hour from there.
I was thinking about open water in the Keys and Florida bay.
As Wayne said a rising/high tide can be useful to keep you off grass
beds/sandbars.
Didn't know that chart plotters had a local tide reading.
Probably want a forward looking sounder too, if there is such a thing.
And a go-slow attitude where appropriate.

--Vic