On Feb 19, 7:33 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:48:53 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch

wrote:

It's a big mess and I have no sympathy.
Flippers took the risk and should pay.
Equity borrowers should pay too
People who made zero down mortgages will never be good credit risks
and they have nothing at risk, I have no sympathy for the lenders in
that case.
Who but an idiot would go for an ARM when the fixed rates were so low?
STUPID SHOULD HURT

ARMs are nearly always lower than fixed.
I did a 3-yr ARM refi at 2.75 when the lowest fixed 15 yr was @6.
Anyway, my eyes were wide open and I had a backup plan if the rates
went up hard when they reset.
The woman I mentioned works and can afford to pay her mortgage
at a real market rate.
Purely a victim of predatory lending. I don't care if she isn't a
sharp tack financially. She shouldn't be taken advantage of like
that.
If your mutual fund suddenly went negative due to malfeasance, you
wouldn't be calling yourself stupid.
You're welcome to call yourself stupid if you've suffered equity
losses legitimately however. You rolled the dice.
But I don't think predatory lending is the root cause of the disaster.
Most of it is interest-only loans, flippers, and equity pullers.
Not "poor people" in most cases, though they might be now.
Again, until somebody actually collates the defaults, it's hard to get
a handle on it.
This is a case where the gov temporarily hiring 10,000 out of work
accountants/investigators to sort things out would pay off.
Get it done fast, and don't pay off the deadbeats.
Things will get back to normal. And by normal I don't mean what's
been normal for the last 10 years or so.
I mean previous home market normal.
20% down and proven income to afford the note payments.
Home prices will adjust to that supply/demand reality.
Hardly the rocket science we boaters are accustomed to here.
Wait....I don't have a boat yet.
Hmmmmm, maybe I can refi and pull some cash out for that.
Reminds me of a commercial that was running until recently, maybe
Geico.
"Cash out some of that equity!"
Aw, ****. How did we get where people thought that was the way to go?

--Vic

If the interest rate truly determines whether or not you can pay a
mortgage, then in my opinion you should borrow less. Using the ARM
rate to justify overborrowing is silly. ARMs are ALWAYS risky.
If you borrow needing two incomes to pay and you lose one income, no
sympathy from me.
HOWEVER, if you buy a small house and your payments are less than 25%
of a single income and then you lose your job, OK you have my
sympathy.
Other peoples failure to plan for contingencies should not allow them
to rob me to pay their bills.

Frogwatch wrote:


If the interest rate truly determines whether or not you can pay a
mortgage, then in my opinion you should borrow less. Using the ARM
rate to justify overborrowing is silly. ARMs are ALWAYS risky.
If you borrow needing two incomes to pay and you lose one income, no
sympathy from me.
HOWEVER, if you buy a small house and your payments are less than 25%
of a single income and then you lose your job, OK you have my
sympathy.
Other peoples failure to plan for contingencies should not allow them
to rob me to pay their bills.

No one wants your rotten old boats and rusty old trucks.

"HK" wrote in message
...
Frogwatch wrote:


If the interest rate truly determines whether or not you can pay a
mortgage, then in my opinion you should borrow less. Using the ARM
rate to justify overborrowing is silly. ARMs are ALWAYS risky.
If you borrow needing two incomes to pay and you lose one income, no
sympathy from me.
HOWEVER, if you buy a small house and your payments are less than 25%
of a single income and then you lose your job, OK you have my
sympathy.
Other peoples failure to plan for contingencies should not allow them
to rob me to pay their bills.

No one wants your rotten old boats and rusty old trucks.

And it may be why he probably has money in the bank and not credit card
debt. Today in guitar class we are discussing 1099's when doing a short
sale or write down of credit card debt. One kid, about 21-22 years old,
says he did not get a 1099 when they wrote off 70% of his $25,000 CC debt.
I asked him how a 21 year old can rack up that much CC debt. Said it was
easy. Went to Vegas and bought $1500 clothing outfit to look good. Things
like that. These are the types getting bailed out.

Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Frogwatch wrote:

If the interest rate truly determines whether or not you can pay a
mortgage, then in my opinion you should borrow less. Using the ARM
rate to justify overborrowing is silly. ARMs are ALWAYS risky.
If you borrow needing two incomes to pay and you lose one income, no
sympathy from me.
HOWEVER, if you buy a small house and your payments are less than 25%
of a single income and then you lose your job, OK you have my
sympathy.
Other peoples failure to plan for contingencies should not allow them
to rob me to pay their bills.
No one wants your rotten old boats and rusty old trucks.

And it may be why he probably has money in the bank and not credit card
debt. Today in guitar class we are discussing 1099's when doing a short
sale or write down of credit card debt. One kid, about 21-22 years old,
says he did not get a 1099 when they wrote off 70% of his $25,000 CC debt.
I asked him how a 21 year old can rack up that much CC debt. Said it was
easy. Went to Vegas and bought $1500 clothing outfit to look good. Things
like that. These are the types getting bailed out.




Chump change. It's the wall street pukes who are cashing in during the
bailout.

"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Frogwatch wrote:

If the interest rate truly determines whether or not you can pay a
mortgage, then in my opinion you should borrow less. Using the ARM
rate to justify overborrowing is silly. ARMs are ALWAYS risky.
If you borrow needing two incomes to pay and you lose one income, no
sympathy from me.
HOWEVER, if you buy a small house and your payments are less than 25%
of a single income and then you lose your job, OK you have my
sympathy.
Other peoples failure to plan for contingencies should not allow them
to rob me to pay their bills.
No one wants your rotten old boats and rusty old trucks.

And it may be why he probably has money in the bank and not credit card
debt. Today in guitar class we are discussing 1099's when doing a short
sale or write down of credit card debt. One kid, about 21-22 years old,
says he did not get a 1099 when they wrote off 70% of his $25,000 CC
debt. I asked him how a 21 year old can rack up that much CC debt. Said
it was easy. Went to Vegas and bought $1500 clothing outfit to look
good. Things like that. These are the types getting bailed out.


Chump change. It's the wall street pukes who are cashing in during the
bailout.

I thought it was those Democrat pols. Got a pay raise during this downturn.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Frogwatch wrote:

If the interest rate truly determines whether or not you can pay a
mortgage, then in my opinion you should borrow less. Using the ARM
rate to justify overborrowing is silly. ARMs are ALWAYS risky.
If you borrow needing two incomes to pay and you lose one income, no
sympathy from me.
HOWEVER, if you buy a small house and your payments are less than 25%
of a single income and then you lose your job, OK you have my
sympathy.
Other peoples failure to plan for contingencies should not allow them
to rob me to pay their bills.
No one wants your rotten old boats and rusty old trucks.

And it may be why he probably has money in the bank and not credit card
debt. Today in guitar class we are discussing 1099's when doing a short
sale or write down of credit card debt. One kid, about 21-22 years old,
says he did not get a 1099 when they wrote off 70% of his $25,000 CC
debt. I asked him how a 21 year old can rack up that much CC debt. Said
it was easy. Went to Vegas and bought $1500 clothing outfit to look
good. Things like that. These are the types getting bailed out.


Chump change. It's the wall street pukes who are cashing in during the
bailout.

I thought it was those Democrat pols. Got a pay raise during this
downturn.


And traveling overseas on our bucks.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"HK" wrote in message
...
Frogwatch wrote:


If the interest rate truly determines whether or not you can pay a
mortgage, then in my opinion you should borrow less. Using the ARM
rate to justify overborrowing is silly. ARMs are ALWAYS risky.
If you borrow needing two incomes to pay and you lose one income, no
sympathy from me.
HOWEVER, if you buy a small house and your payments are less than 25%
of a single income and then you lose your job, OK you have my
sympathy.
Other peoples failure to plan for contingencies should not allow them
to rob me to pay their bills.

No one wants your rotten old boats and rusty old trucks.

And it may be why he probably has money in the bank and not credit card
debt. Today in guitar class we are discussing 1099's when doing a short
sale or write down of credit card debt. One kid, about 21-22 years old,
says he did not get a 1099 when they wrote off 70% of his $25,000 CC debt.
I asked him how a 21 year old can rack up that much CC debt. Said it was
easy. Went to Vegas and bought $1500 clothing outfit to look good.
Things like that. These are the types getting bailed out.


The CC companies are just as much to blame. They get what they deserve if
they give a kid that young a line so high. That's just stupid. Of course,
the kid learns absolutely nothing from the experience, and will do it again.

My first CC had a line of a whole $100. Times have changed.

--Mike

On Feb 20, 2:03 am, "Mike" wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message

m...





"HK" wrote in message
...
Frogwatch wrote:

If the interest rate truly determines whether or not you can pay a
mortgage, then in my opinion you should borrow less. Using the ARM
rate to justify overborrowing is silly. ARMs are ALWAYS risky.
If you borrow needing two incomes to pay and you lose one income, no
sympathy from me.
HOWEVER, if you buy a small house and your payments are less than 25%
of a single income and then you lose your job, OK you have my
sympathy.
Other peoples failure to plan for contingencies should not allow them
to rob me to pay their bills.

No one wants your rotten old boats and rusty old trucks.

And it may be why he probably has money in the bank and not credit card
debt. Today in guitar class we are discussing 1099's when doing a short
sale or write down of credit card debt. One kid, about 21-22 years old,
says he did not get a 1099 when they wrote off 70% of his $25,000 CC debt.
I asked him how a 21 year old can rack up that much CC debt. Said it was
easy. Went to Vegas and bought $1500 clothing outfit to look good.
Things like that. These are the types getting bailed out.

The CC companies are just as much to blame. They get what they deserve if
they give a kid that young a line so high. That's just stupid. Of course,
the kid learns absolutely nothing from the experience, and will do it again.

My first CC had a line of a whole $100. Times have changed.

--Mike

In 1982 being married a whole year, I begged my wife not to ge a cc
cuz I was afraid of going into debt. She got one with a whopping $200
limit. Turns out, she is cheaper than me. One time since then, we
paid interest one month by mistake cuz I got the payment there late;
you'd have thought we'd gone bankrupt for all the grief she gave me.
That was 10 yrs ago and I still hear about it at least one a week.
Being cheap makes you free. Buying things makes you a slave.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"HK" wrote in message
...
Frogwatch wrote:


If the interest rate truly determines whether or not you can pay a
mortgage, then in my opinion you should borrow less. Using the ARM
rate to justify overborrowing is silly. ARMs are ALWAYS risky.
If you borrow needing two incomes to pay and you lose one income, no
sympathy from me.
HOWEVER, if you buy a small house and your payments are less than 25%
of a single income and then you lose your job, OK you have my
sympathy.
Other peoples failure to plan for contingencies should not allow them
to rob me to pay their bills.

No one wants your rotten old boats and rusty old trucks.

And it may be why he probably has money in the bank and not credit card
debt. Today in guitar class we are discussing 1099's when doing a short
sale or write down of credit card debt. One kid, about 21-22 years old,
says he did not get a 1099 when they wrote off 70% of his $25,000 CC
debt. I asked him how a 21 year old can rack up that much CC debt. Said
it was easy. Went to Vegas and bought $1500 clothing outfit to look
good. Things like that. These are the types getting bailed out.


The CC companies are just as much to blame. They get what they deserve if
they give a kid that young a line so high. That's just stupid. Of course,
the kid learns absolutely nothing from the experience, and will do it
again.

My first CC had a line of a whole $100. Times have changed.

--Mike


And the rest of us are paying for the write downs with higher fees, etc.
I did not use my first CC for maybe 5 years after I got it. Needed gas in
the middle of the night and not enough cash on hand. I use my CC now for
most things. Even the phone bill is billed to the CC as well as paying for
2 university educations and weddings. But I do not run a balance and use
the miles accumulated to travel.

On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:20:43 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


Even the phone bill is billed to the CC as well as paying for
2 university educations and weddings. But I do not run a balance and use

the miles accumulated to travel.

Strange concept that. Looks like banks subsidising airlines.

Casady