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Obama Cracked Open The Door...
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Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote:
...and Iran kicked it open. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s If you've been tracking info on Iran, you know the president is more figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics. If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest to engage, they will. This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric is very predictable and a show for the region. Has little to do with what will happen through diplomacy. Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you say!"? I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
"jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
Eisboch wrote:
"jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
"HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. If you lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different perspective. There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in yours. You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd understand why they posture the way they do. It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to a bumper sticker. Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. Time proved it. Where's bin Laden now? "I don't know, I don't pay much attention to him anymore." paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or alive." He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
"jps" wrote in message ... On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message . .. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. If you lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different perspective. There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in yours. You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd understand why they posture the way they do. It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to a bumper sticker. Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. Time proved it. Where's bin Laden now? "I don't know, I don't pay much attention to him anymore." paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or alive." He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours. When I refer to Islamic fundamentalists, I am speaking of those who use religion to teach kids from the time they can walk that it is their duty to kill westerners, especially Israelis and Americans. Talking, teaching, begging isn't going to change that for a very long time, if ever. Hard, cruel lesson Number 1. Eisboch |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...and Iran kicked it open. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s If you've been tracking info on Iran, you know the president is more figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics. If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest to engage, they will. He does what the clerics tell him to do, he isn't a lose cannon, he is on a short leash. This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric is very predictable and a show for the region. Has little to do with what will happen through diplomacy. His rhetoric is calculated and controlled. Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you say!"? No. And, I don't expect us to role over and expose our belly to every petty dictator, the head cleric in Iran, in the region. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer Bush's approach to Obama's approach of throw away the stick and then sit down and talk. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Jan 28, 9:37*am, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. *You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. *The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama *isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Sounds to me like the story of the hungry bear and the hunter wanting a fur coat to me. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. -- When I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:40:08 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. If you lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different perspective. There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in yours. You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd understand why they posture the way they do. It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to a bumper sticker. Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. Time proved it. Where's bin Laden now? "I don't know, I don't pay much attention to him anymore." paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or alive." He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours. When I refer to Islamic fundamentalists, I am speaking of those who use religion to teach kids from the time they can walk that it is their duty to kill westerners, especially Israelis and Americans. Talking, teaching, begging isn't going to change that for a very long time, if ever. Hard, cruel lesson Number 1. Eisboch They got that way from our disengagement. If we put money into schools like bin Laden does, we'd be in a better position to influence the situation. We project our power through force instead of enlightenment. Sound like a good policy for changing "the enemies" mind? |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. Read and learn. In particular the last paragraph. http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo -- "I intend to live forever. So far, so good." Steven Wright |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote:
jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...and Iran kicked it open. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s If you've been tracking info on Iran, you know the president is more figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics. If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest to engage, they will. He does what the clerics tell him to do, he isn't a lose cannon, he is on a short leash. This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric is very predictable and a show for the region. Has little to do with what will happen through diplomacy. His rhetoric is calculated and controlled. Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you say!"? No. And, I don't expect us to role over and expose our belly to every petty dictator, the head cleric in Iran, in the region. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer Bush's approach to Obama's approach of throw away the stick and then sit down and talk. He is anything but controlled. A large percentage of his countrymen think he's a lunatic. GW spouted the same kind of crap in their direction. Do you expect them to now trust us with open arms? Stupid is as stupid does. Obama is a lot smarter than Bush and will engage them in order to affect the situtation. We can't starve them out, they have the oil and will likely have more influence over Iraq once we leave. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. You didn't answer my question. Allow me to reiterate. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? -- "I have tried to know absolutely nothing about a great many things, and I have succeeded fairly well." Robert Benchley |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Jan 28, 11:28*am, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:40:08 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. *You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. *The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. *If you lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different perspective. There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in yours. *You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd understand why they posture the way they do. It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to a bumper sticker. Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. *Time proved it. Where's bin Laden now? *"I don't know, I don't pay much attention to him anymore." *paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or alive." He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours. When I refer to Islamic fundamentalists, I am speaking of those who use religion to teach kids from the time they can walk that it is their duty to kill westerners, especially Israelis and Americans. * Talking, teaching, begging isn't going to change that for a very long time, if ever. Hard, cruel lesson Number 1. Eisboch They got that way from our disengagement. *If we put money into schools like bin Laden does, we'd be in a better position to influence the situation. You are aware that we have rebuilt or opened hundreds of schools in the middle east, and allowed millions of children, in particular girls, to attend schools they could not before, right? You are either dreadfully uninformed, or the facts don't really fit into your narrow agenda... We project our power through force instead of enlightenment. See above. Sound like a good policy for changing "the enemies" mind? Irrelevant, based on false pretense... |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Jan 28, 11:37*am, wrote:
On Jan 28, 11:28*am, jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:40:08 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. *You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. *The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. *If you lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different perspective. There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in yours. *You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd understand why they posture the way they do. It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to a bumper sticker. Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. *Time proved it. Where's bin Laden now? *"I don't know, I don't pay much attention to him anymore." *paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or alive." He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours. When I refer to Islamic fundamentalists, I am speaking of those who use religion to teach kids from the time they can walk that it is their duty to kill westerners, especially Israelis and Americans. * Talking, teaching, begging isn't going to change that for a very long time, if ever. Hard, cruel lesson Number 1. Eisboch They got that way from our disengagement. *If we put money into schools like bin Laden does, we'd be in a better position to influence the situation. You are aware that we have rebuilt or opened hundreds of schools in the middle east, and allowed millions of children, in particular girls, to attend schools they could not before, right? You are either dreadfully uninformed, or the facts don't really fit into your narrow agenda... We project our power through force instead of enlightenment. See above. Sound like a good policy for changing "the enemies" mind? Irrelevant, based on false pretense...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - OOOPs, forgot he is pretending to filter me... Seems the way most far lefties deal with questions, see Barakalypse and his actions during the campaign and in the last few days... |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. Read and learn. In particular the last paragraph. http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo -- There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:33:04 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. You didn't answer my question. Allow me to reiterate. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? You have a misunderstanding of Iran if you think a woman requires a burka. Iran deals with female diplomats from other parts of the world, I'm sure they'll welcome ours with great hospitatlity. Iran is among the most westernized of the mid-east nations. They're closer to a free society than most of their neighbors. A great deal of their population feels warmly towards the west but we've made it very difficult to express that support by our invasion of Iraq and the school yard approach to diplomacy. Fortunately, Obama is an adult and will undoubtedly engage them in meaningful dialogue. Hopefully, it'll result in a better understanding and a better hand to play from. Invading and bombing hasn't proven to be very effective in fomenting peace. And before you say "let turn 'em to glass" know that it's not a reasonable possibility. This isn't childs play. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:44:51 -0500, HK wrote:
Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. Read and learn. In particular the last paragraph. http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy. Uh huh. Prove it. -- If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat? |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:49:52 -0800, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:33:04 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. You didn't answer my question. Allow me to reiterate. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? You have a misunderstanding of Iran if you think a woman requires a burka. Iran deals with female diplomats from other parts of the world, I'm sure they'll welcome ours with great hospitatlity. Iran is among the most westernized of the mid-east nations. They're closer to a free society than most of their neighbors. A great deal of their population feels warmly towards the west but we've made it very difficult to express that support by our invasion of Iraq and the school yard approach to diplomacy. Fortunately, Obama is an adult and will undoubtedly engage them in meaningful dialogue. Hopefully, it'll result in a better understanding and a better hand to play from. Invading and bombing hasn't proven to be very effective in fomenting peace. And before you say "let turn 'em to glass" know that it's not a reasonable possibility. This isn't childs play. Uh huh. Well, I hope you are right. You aren't, but I hope you are. -- "Never fight an inanimate object." P.J. O'Rourke |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Jan 28, 10:31*am, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...andIrankicked it open. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...90128?feedType.... If you've been tracking info onIran, you know the president is more figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics. If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest to engage, they will. He does what the clerics tell him to do, he isn't a lose cannon, he is on a short leash. This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric is very predictable and a show for the region. *Has little to do with what will happen through diplomacy. His rhetoric is calculated and controlled. Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you say!"? No. And, I don't expect us to role over and expose our belly to every petty dictator, the head cleric inIran, in the region. I love how you useObama'soffer of diplomacy to belittle him. *You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer Bush's approach toObama'sapproach of throw away the stick and then sit down and talk. He is anything but controlled. *A large percentage of his countrymen think he's a lunatic. GW spouted the same kind of crap in their direction. *Do you expect them to now trust us with open arms? Stupid is as stupid does. Obamais a lot smarter than Bush and will engage them in order to affect the situtation. *We can't starve them out, they have the oil and will likely have more influence over Iraq once we leave. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...ons/obama5.jpg |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...and Iran kicked it open. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s If you've been tracking info on Iran, you know the president is more figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics. If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest to engage, they will. He does what the clerics tell him to do, he isn't a lose cannon, he is on a short leash. This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric is very predictable and a show for the region. Has little to do with what will happen through diplomacy. His rhetoric is calculated and controlled. Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you say!"? No. And, I don't expect us to role over and expose our belly to every petty dictator, the head cleric in Iran, in the region. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer Bush's approach to Obama's approach of throw away the stick and then sit down and talk. He is anything but controlled. A large percentage of his countrymen think he's a lunatic. Who is in charge in Iran? It isn't the people, it is the clerics. GW spouted the same kind of crap in their direction. Do you expect them to now trust us with open arms? The clerics in Iran, through their mouth piece, are going to walk all over Obama. Stupid is as stupid does. Obama sure is stupid, dumb and out of his league on the world stage. Obama is a lot smarter than Bush and will engage them in order to affect the situtation. We can't starve them out, they have the oil and will likely have more influence over Iraq once we leave. Obama hasn't got a clue as to what he is doing. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:21:51 -0500, BAR wrote:
jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...and Iran kicked it open. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s If you've been tracking info on Iran, you know the president is more figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics. If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest to engage, they will. He does what the clerics tell him to do, he isn't a lose cannon, he is on a short leash. This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric is very predictable and a show for the region. Has little to do with what will happen through diplomacy. His rhetoric is calculated and controlled. Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you say!"? No. And, I don't expect us to role over and expose our belly to every petty dictator, the head cleric in Iran, in the region. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer Bush's approach to Obama's approach of throw away the stick and then sit down and talk. He is anything but controlled. A large percentage of his countrymen think he's a lunatic. Who is in charge in Iran? It isn't the people, it is the clerics. GW spouted the same kind of crap in their direction. Do you expect them to now trust us with open arms? The clerics in Iran, through their mouth piece, are going to walk all over Obama. Stupid is as stupid does. Obama sure is stupid, dumb and out of his league on the world stage. Obama is a lot smarter than Bush and will engage them in order to affect the situtation. We can't starve them out, they have the oil and will likely have more influence over Iraq once we leave. Obama hasn't got a clue as to what he is doing. There's no sense in your responses, not backed up by any reasoning. We are the leaders of the free world and Obama dispatched all comers in free and open elections. And you think he's out of his league? You're obviously not a believer in America or Americans. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:21:51 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...and Iran kicked it open. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s If you've been tracking info on Iran, you know the president is more figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics. If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest to engage, they will. He does what the clerics tell him to do, he isn't a lose cannon, he is on a short leash. This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric is very predictable and a show for the region. Has little to do with what will happen through diplomacy. His rhetoric is calculated and controlled. Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you say!"? No. And, I don't expect us to role over and expose our belly to every petty dictator, the head cleric in Iran, in the region. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer Bush's approach to Obama's approach of throw away the stick and then sit down and talk. He is anything but controlled. A large percentage of his countrymen think he's a lunatic. Who is in charge in Iran? It isn't the people, it is the clerics. GW spouted the same kind of crap in their direction. Do you expect them to now trust us with open arms? The clerics in Iran, through their mouth piece, are going to walk all over Obama. Stupid is as stupid does. Obama sure is stupid, dumb and out of his league on the world stage. Obama is a lot smarter than Bush and will engage them in order to affect the situtation. We can't starve them out, they have the oil and will likely have more influence over Iraq once we leave. Obama hasn't got a clue as to what he is doing. There's no sense in your responses, not backed up by any reasoning. We are the leaders of the free world and Obama dispatched all comers in free and open elections. And you think he's out of his league? You're obviously not a believer in America or Americans. Bertie (BAR) is a product of bad indoctrination. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:21:51 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...and Iran kicked it open. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s If you've been tracking info on Iran, you know the president is more figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics. If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest to engage, they will. He does what the clerics tell him to do, he isn't a lose cannon, he is on a short leash. This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric is very predictable and a show for the region. Has little to do with what will happen through diplomacy. His rhetoric is calculated and controlled. Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you say!"? No. And, I don't expect us to role over and expose our belly to every petty dictator, the head cleric in Iran, in the region. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer Bush's approach to Obama's approach of throw away the stick and then sit down and talk. He is anything but controlled. A large percentage of his countrymen think he's a lunatic. Who is in charge in Iran? It isn't the people, it is the clerics. GW spouted the same kind of crap in their direction. Do you expect them to now trust us with open arms? The clerics in Iran, through their mouth piece, are going to walk all over Obama. Stupid is as stupid does. Obama sure is stupid, dumb and out of his league on the world stage. Obama is a lot smarter than Bush and will engage them in order to affect the situtation. We can't starve them out, they have the oil and will likely have more influence over Iraq once we leave. Obama hasn't got a clue as to what he is doing. There's no sense in your responses, not backed up by any reasoning. We are the leaders of the free world and Obama dispatched all comers in free and open elections. And you think he's out of his league? You're obviously not a believer in America or Americans. We'll see. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
"jps" wrote in message ... On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:40:08 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message m... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. If you lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different perspective. There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in yours. You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd understand why they posture the way they do. It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to a bumper sticker. Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. Time proved it. Where's bin Laden now? "I don't know, I don't pay much attention to him anymore." paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or alive." He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours. When I refer to Islamic fundamentalists, I am speaking of those who use religion to teach kids from the time they can walk that it is their duty to kill westerners, especially Israelis and Americans. Talking, teaching, begging isn't going to change that for a very long time, if ever. Hard, cruel lesson Number 1. Eisboch They got that way from our disengagement. If we put money into schools like bin Laden does, we'd be in a better position to influence the situation. We project our power through force instead of enlightenment. Sound like a good policy for changing "the enemies" mind? I am afraid you are an idealistic, but unrealistic dreamer. Every country on the face of this earth is out for themselves first, including us. It would be nice to think otherwise and that handshakes, financial aid or smiley faces can change that, but it won't happen. Even some of the countries that we have supported for years will turn on us in a moment if we back off on aid or other assistance programs. Eisboch |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:42:40 -0500, BAR wrote:
jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:21:51 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...and Iran kicked it open. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...Name=topNew s If you've been tracking info on Iran, you know the president is more figurehead than executive and has a weak hand in dictating politics. If the clerics who run the country thinks it's in their best interest to engage, they will. He does what the clerics tell him to do, he isn't a lose cannon, he is on a short leash. This is bluster and what was expected from Ahmadinigad, his rhetoric is very predictable and a show for the region. Has little to do with what will happen through diplomacy. His rhetoric is calculated and controlled. Did you expect them to bow down as say "Yes, sahib, whatever you say!"? No. And, I don't expect us to role over and expose our belly to every petty dictator, the head cleric in Iran, in the region. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer Bush's approach to Obama's approach of throw away the stick and then sit down and talk. He is anything but controlled. A large percentage of his countrymen think he's a lunatic. Who is in charge in Iran? It isn't the people, it is the clerics. GW spouted the same kind of crap in their direction. Do you expect them to now trust us with open arms? The clerics in Iran, through their mouth piece, are going to walk all over Obama. Stupid is as stupid does. Obama sure is stupid, dumb and out of his league on the world stage. Obama is a lot smarter than Bush and will engage them in order to affect the situtation. We can't starve them out, they have the oil and will likely have more influence over Iraq once we leave. Obama hasn't got a clue as to what he is doing. There's no sense in your responses, not backed up by any reasoning. We are the leaders of the free world and Obama dispatched all comers in free and open elections. And you think he's out of his league? You're obviously not a believer in America or Americans. We'll see. Whatever happens, you'll attempt to color it as defeat. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...History lesson
jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:21:51 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...and Iran kicked it open. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer And you think he's out of his league? You're obviously not a believer in America or Americans. The situation in Iran could be compared to the situation in 1909. Japan was a militaristic society. In 1905 they had just defeat Russia. Teddy Roosevelt understanding the situation in the western Pacific sent the Great White fleet into the areas in and around Japan in 1907 - 1909. Because of this action, Japan did not act on her militaristic plans for near thirty years until the pacifist gained the upper hand in the late 1930. The pacifist policies toward Hitler's German encouraged Hitler and within 6 years, we were in WWII. I would rather have a President like President Bush who takes positive actions to restrain a militaristic power that one who panders to them. If left unrestrained Iran will reach a point where the World will have to act, and that will be significantly more costly that it is today. Iraq and Iran are not the first time the US has taken a positive roll in restrain a rogue nation. I believe the first was in Tripoli in 1805, Because of the militaristic action, that area of the world was in relative peace for nearly 150 years. If you are interested all of this information can be found with a google search. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
HK wrote:
Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. Read and learn. In particular the last paragraph. http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo -- There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy. Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush? |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Jan 28, 4:04*pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote: HK wrote: Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message news:0gt0o498q3cg1a1u1743ghfo4tusjju8ef@4a x.com... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. * You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. *The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama *isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? *Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? *Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. *You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. * I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. Read and learn. In particular the last paragraph. http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo -- There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy. Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We were cooking along ok until Pelosi and Reid swamped the economy to win an election... |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Jan 28, 4:28*pm, HK wrote:
wrote: On Jan 28, 4:04 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq." wrote: HK wrote: Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message .. . Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message news:0gt0o498q3cg1a1u1743ghfo4tusjju8ef@ 4ax.com... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him.. * You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. *The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama *isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? *Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? *Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. *You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. * I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. Read and learn. In particular the last paragraph. http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo -- There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy. Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We were cooking along ok until Pelosi and Reid swamped the economy to win an election... You know, you already have the Idiot Belt...are you defending it now? *From who? Loogy?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You are the one who has been consistantly wrong this week, do the math... |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
wrote:
On Jan 28, 4:04 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq." wrote: HK wrote: Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. Read and learn. In particular the last paragraph. http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo -- There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy. Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We were cooking along ok until Pelosi and Reid swamped the economy to win an election... I wish it was that simple, but Pelosi and Reid did nothing to change a problem that went back to Carter, was aggravated by Clinton, and left to fester under GWBush and both Democratic and Republican controlled congress's. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:36:59 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote: wrote: On Jan 28, 4:04 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq." wrote: HK wrote: Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... Eisboch wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush kissing butt with the saudis? Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran? Eisboch Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for its insane "leader." Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not figure out. Tell me something -just out of curiosity. How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she does so? Please - I'd really like to know. Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"? Did you embrace him as your leader? Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen as defending his country? Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of stupidity. Read and learn. In particular the last paragraph. http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo -- There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy. Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We were cooking along ok until Pelosi and Reid swamped the economy to win an election... I wish it was that simple, but Pelosi and Reid did nothing to change a problem that went back to Carter, was aggravated by Clinton, and left to fester under GWBush and both Democratic and Republican controlled congress's. You forgot Canada. And the damn geese. And the Barney and Chris Show deserves special mention. -- John H * The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson. * |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:43:31 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:40:08 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message om... I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists simply want you dead. Eisboch You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. If you lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different perspective. There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in yours. You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd understand why they posture the way they do. It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to a bumper sticker. Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. Time proved it. Where's bin Laden now? "I don't know, I don't pay much attention to him anymore." paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or alive." He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours. When I refer to Islamic fundamentalists, I am speaking of those who use religion to teach kids from the time they can walk that it is their duty to kill westerners, especially Israelis and Americans. Talking, teaching, begging isn't going to change that for a very long time, if ever. Hard, cruel lesson Number 1. Eisboch They got that way from our disengagement. If we put money into schools like bin Laden does, we'd be in a better position to influence the situation. We project our power through force instead of enlightenment. Sound like a good policy for changing "the enemies" mind? I am afraid you are an idealistic, but unrealistic dreamer. Every country on the face of this earth is out for themselves first, including us. It would be nice to think otherwise and that handshakes, financial aid or smiley faces can change that, but it won't happen. Even some of the countries that we have supported for years will turn on us in a moment if we back off on aid or other assistance programs. Eisboch Not so sure about that Eisboch. Africa loves GW Bush for his courage in helping address the aids epidemic. It took Bono and a number of others but GW stepped up. The rest of the world can't stand Bush, Africa loves him. Is that instructive in any way? |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...History lesson
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:55:03 -0500, Keith nuttle
wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:21:51 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...and Iran kicked it open. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer And you think he's out of his league? You're obviously not a believer in America or Americans. The situation in Iran could be compared to the situation in 1909. Japan was a militaristic society. In 1905 they had just defeat Russia. Teddy Roosevelt understanding the situation in the western Pacific sent the Great White fleet into the areas in and around Japan in 1907 - 1909. Because of this action, Japan did not act on her militaristic plans for near thirty years until the pacifist gained the upper hand in the late 1930. The pacifist policies toward Hitler's German encouraged Hitler and within 6 years, we were in WWII. I would rather have a President like President Bush who takes positive actions to restrain a militaristic power that one who panders to them. If left unrestrained Iran will reach a point where the World will have to act, and that will be significantly more costly that it is today. Iraq and Iran are not the first time the US has taken a positive roll in restrain a rogue nation. I believe the first was in Tripoli in 1805, Because of the militaristic action, that area of the world was in relative peace for nearly 150 years. If you are interested all of this information can be found with a google search. Bush wasn't taking action in Iraq because we were threatened. He wanted the oil for his family friends and business partners. Besides, those Islamic folks needed some of GW's christian values. Afghanistan is something else, what I'm not sure. We could either be there for the right reason (squash al Qaeda/Taliban) or the wrong reason (force western democracy on areas steeped in religious/tribal cultures). Afghanistan didn't go well for the Soviets and I don't expect it will go well for us if our ambitions get the better of us. |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...History lesson
On Jan 28, 5:22*pm, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:55:03 -0500, Keith nuttle wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:21:51 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote: jps wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote: ...and Iran kicked it open. I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him.. *You'd obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach. Yes I prefer And you think he's out of his league? You're obviously not a believer in America or Americans. The situation in Iran could be compared to the situation in 1909. *Japan was a militaristic society. *In 1905 they had just defeat Russia. *Teddy Roosevelt understanding the situation in the western Pacific sent the Great White fleet into the areas in and around Japan in 1907 - 1909. Because of this action, Japan did not act on her militaristic plans for near thirty years until the pacifist gained the upper hand in the late 1930. The pacifist policies toward Hitler's German encouraged Hitler and within 6 years, we were in WWII. I would rather have a President like President Bush who takes positive actions to restrain a militaristic power that one who panders to them. *If left unrestrained Iran will reach a point where the World will have to act, and that will be significantly more costly that it is today. Iraq and Iran are not the first time the US has taken a positive roll in restrain a rogue nation. *I believe the first was in Tripoli in 1805, Because of the militaristic action, that area of the world was in relative peace for nearly 150 years. If you are interested all of this information can be found with a google search. Bush wasn't taking action in Iraq because we were threatened. *He wanted the oil for his family friends and business partners. *Besides, those Islamic folks needed some of GW's christian values. Yup, gotta' love it now that that oil is pouring in heh? Don't you ever get off the talking points? Afghanistan is something else, what I'm not sure. *We could either be there for the right reason (squash al Qaeda/Taliban) or the wrong reason (force western democracy on areas steeped in religious/tribal cultures). Afghanistan didn't go well for the Soviets and I don't expect it will go well for us if our ambitions get the better of us.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
Obama Cracked Open The Door...
"jps" wrote in message ... Not so sure about that Eisboch. Africa loves GW Bush for his courage in helping address the aids epidemic. It took Bono and a number of others but GW stepped up. The rest of the world can't stand Bush, Africa loves him. Is that instructive in any way? Watch what happens when we stop giving money to address the aids epidemic. One of our biggest problems is that we buy our friends. Not to say it isn't a worthwhile and good thing to do, but the reality is that we have a lot of fair weather friends in this world and most of them are friendly only if there's something in it for them. Hard, cruel lesson number 2. Eisboch |
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