Obama Cracked Open The Door...
 

HK wrote:
Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
...

I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him.
You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.

Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic
fundamentalists simply want you dead.

Eisboch

The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we
were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush
kissing butt with the saudis?
Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran?

Eisboch
Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so
making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for
its insane "leader."


Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of
communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not
figure out.
Tell me something -just out of curiosity.

How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and
heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a
Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she
does so?

Please - I'd really like to know.
Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"?

Did you embrace him as your leader?

Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen
as defending his country?

Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is
a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of
stupidity.

Read and learn.

In particular the last paragraph.

http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo

--

There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy.

Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there
was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush?

Obama Cracked Open The Door...
 

On Jan 28, 4:04*pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:
HK wrote:
Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
news:0gt0o498q3cg1a1u1743ghfo4tusjju8ef@4a x.com...

I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. *
You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.

Well, at least Bush offered an option. *The Islamic
fundamentalists simply want you dead.

Eisboch

The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we
were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush
kissing butt with the saudis?
Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran?

Eisboch
Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so
making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for
its insane "leader."

Obama *isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of
communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not
figure out.
Tell me something -just out of curiosity.

How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and
heretic? *Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a
Islamic country to "negotiate"? *Is she going to wear a burka when she
does so?

Please - I'd really like to know.
Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"?

Did you embrace him as your leader?

Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen
as defending his country?

Obama is smart enough to engage. *You think that opening a dialogue is
a sign of weakness. * I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of
stupidity.

Read and learn.

In particular the last paragraph.

http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo

--

There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy.

Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there
was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We were cooking along ok until Pelosi and Reid swamped the economy to
win an election...

Obama Cracked Open The Door...
 

wrote:
On Jan 28, 4:04 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:
HK wrote:
Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
...
I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him.
You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.
Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic
fundamentalists simply want you dead.
Eisboch
The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we
were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush
kissing butt with the saudis?
Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran?
Eisboch
Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so
making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for
its insane "leader."
Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of
communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not
figure out.
Tell me something -just out of curiosity.
How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and
heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a
Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she
does so?
Please - I'd really like to know.
Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"?
Did you embrace him as your leader?
Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen
as defending his country?
Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is
a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of
stupidity.
Read and learn.
In particular the last paragraph.
http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo
--
There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy.
Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there
was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We were cooking along ok until Pelosi and Reid swamped the economy to
win an election...

You know, you already have the Idiot Belt...are you defending it now?
From who? Loogy?

Obama Cracked Open The Door...
 

On Jan 28, 4:28*pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Jan 28, 4:04 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:
HK wrote:
Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
.. .
Eisboch wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
news:0gt0o498q3cg1a1u1743ghfo4tusjju8ef@ 4ax.com...
I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him.. *
You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.
Well, at least Bush offered an option. *The Islamic
fundamentalists simply want you dead.
Eisboch
The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we
were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush
kissing butt with the saudis?
Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran?
Eisboch
Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so
making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for
its insane "leader."
Obama *isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of
communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not
figure out.
Tell me something -just out of curiosity.
How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and
heretic? *Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a
Islamic country to "negotiate"? *Is she going to wear a burka when she
does so?
Please - I'd really like to know.
Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"?
Did you embrace him as your leader?
Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen
as defending his country?
Obama is smart enough to engage. *You think that opening a dialogue is
a sign of weakness. * I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of
stupidity.
Read and learn.
In particular the last paragraph.
http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo
--
There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy.
Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there
was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We were cooking along ok until Pelosi and Reid swamped the economy to
win an election...

You know, you already have the Idiot Belt...are you defending it now?
*From who? Loogy?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are the one who has been consistantly wrong this week, do the
math...

Obama Cracked Open The Door...
 

wrote:
On Jan 28, 4:04 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:
HK wrote:
Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
...
I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him.
You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.
Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic
fundamentalists simply want you dead.
Eisboch
The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we
were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush
kissing butt with the saudis?
Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran?
Eisboch
Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so
making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for
its insane "leader."
Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of
communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not
figure out.
Tell me something -just out of curiosity.
How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and
heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a
Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she
does so?
Please - I'd really like to know.
Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"?
Did you embrace him as your leader?
Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen
as defending his country?
Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is
a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of
stupidity.
Read and learn.
In particular the last paragraph.
http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo
--
There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy.
Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there
was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We were cooking along ok until Pelosi and Reid swamped the economy to
win an election...

I wish it was that simple, but Pelosi and Reid did nothing to change a
problem that went back to Carter, was aggravated by Clinton, and left to
fester under GWBush and both Democratic and Republican controlled
congress's.

Obama Cracked Open The Door...
 

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:36:59 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:

wrote:
On Jan 28, 4:04 pm, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."
wrote:
HK wrote:
Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:25:15 -0800, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:09:19 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:37:59 -0500, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"jps" wrote in message
...
I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him.
You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.
Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic
fundamentalists simply want you dead.
Eisboch
The islamic fundies comprise a tiny portion of islam. And if we
were opposed to dealing with islamic fundies, why was bush
kissing butt with the saudis?
Why is Obama kissing butt with Iran?
Eisboch
Because it is worthwhile trying to defuse Iran and by doing so
making life and the chances of re-election a bit more difficult for
its insane "leader."
Obama isn't kissing butt...he simply is opening up channels of
communication. That's what the dummies in the Bush admin could not
figure out.
Tell me something -just out of curiosity.
How do you open dialogue with a leader who views you as a apostate and
heretic? Are you going to send your female Secretary of State to a
Islamic country to "negotiate"? Is she going to wear a burka when she
does so?
Please - I'd really like to know.
Didn't you support the guy who introduced the "Axis of Evil"?
Did you embrace him as your leader?
Why should they feel any differently about their leader if he's seen
as defending his country?
Obama is smart enough to engage. You think that opening a dialogue is
a sign of weakness. I think not opening a dialogue is a sign of
stupidity.
Read and learn.
In particular the last paragraph.
http://tinyurl.com/akeyvo
--
There's more to the leadership of Iran than the crazy guy.
Does that mean one could excuse everything George Bush said, since there
was more to the leadership of the US than George Bush?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We were cooking along ok until Pelosi and Reid swamped the economy to
win an election...

I wish it was that simple, but Pelosi and Reid did nothing to change a
problem that went back to Carter, was aggravated by Clinton, and left to
fester under GWBush and both Democratic and Republican controlled
congress's.

You forgot Canada.

And the damn geese.

And the Barney and Chris Show deserves special mention.
--
John H

* The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson. *

Obama Cracked Open The Door...
 

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:43:31 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:40:08 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:05 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
om...


I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.


Well, at least Bush offered an option. The Islamic fundamentalists
simply
want you dead.

Eisboch

You give them little credit and I think that's short sighted. If you
lived in their part of the world, you'd undoubtedly have a different
perspective.

There are folks over there as moderate in their thinking as you are in
yours. You should try and lean into a little more and perhaps you'd
understand why they posture the way they do.

It's complicated, don't think you can get away with simplifying it to
a bumper sticker.

Bush's swashbuckling was a ruse. Time proved it.

Where's bin Laden now? "I don't know, I don't pay much attention to
him anymore." paraphrase of GW two years after he announced "dead or
alive."

He's as credible in their eyes as Ahmadinegad is in ours.


When I refer to Islamic fundamentalists, I am speaking of those who use
religion to teach kids from the time they can walk that it is their duty
to
kill westerners, especially Israelis and Americans. Talking, teaching,
begging isn't going to change that for a very long time, if ever.

Hard, cruel lesson Number 1.

Eisboch

They got that way from our disengagement. If we put money into
schools like bin Laden does, we'd be in a better position to influence
the situation.

We project our power through force instead of enlightenment.

Sound like a good policy for changing "the enemies" mind?


I am afraid you are an idealistic, but unrealistic dreamer. Every country
on the face of this earth is out for themselves first, including us. It
would be nice to think otherwise and that handshakes, financial aid or
smiley faces can change that, but it won't happen.

Even some of the countries that we have supported for years will turn on us
in a moment if we back off on aid or other assistance programs.

Eisboch

Not so sure about that Eisboch. Africa loves GW Bush for his courage
in helping address the aids epidemic. It took Bono and a number of
others but GW stepped up.

The rest of the world can't stand Bush, Africa loves him.

Is that instructive in any way?

Obama Cracked Open The Door...History lesson
 

On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:55:03 -0500, Keith nuttle
wrote:

jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:21:51 -0500, BAR wrote:

jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote:

jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote:

...and Iran kicked it open.

I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him. You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.
Yes I prefer
And you think he's out of his league?

You're obviously not a believer in America or Americans.

The situation in Iran could be compared to the situation in 1909. Japan
was a militaristic society. In 1905 they had just defeat Russia. Teddy
Roosevelt understanding the situation in the western Pacific sent the
Great White fleet into the areas in and around Japan in 1907 - 1909.
Because of this action, Japan did not act on her militaristic plans for
near thirty years until the pacifist gained the upper hand in the late
1930.

The pacifist policies toward Hitler's German encouraged Hitler and
within 6 years, we were in WWII.

I would rather have a President like President Bush who takes positive
actions to restrain a militaristic power that one who panders to them.
If left unrestrained Iran will reach a point where the World will have
to act, and that will be significantly more costly that it is today.

Iraq and Iran are not the first time the US has taken a positive roll in
restrain a rogue nation. I believe the first was in Tripoli in 1805,
Because of the militaristic action, that area of the world was in
relative peace for nearly 150 years.

If you are interested all of this information can be found with a google
search.

Bush wasn't taking action in Iraq because we were threatened. He
wanted the oil for his family friends and business partners. Besides,
those Islamic folks needed some of GW's christian values.

Afghanistan is something else, what I'm not sure. We could either be
there for the right reason (squash al Qaeda/Taliban) or the wrong
reason (force western democracy on areas steeped in religious/tribal
cultures).

Afghanistan didn't go well for the Soviets and I don't expect it will
go well for us if our ambitions get the better of us.

Obama Cracked Open The Door...History lesson
 

On Jan 28, 5:22*pm, jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:55:03 -0500, Keith nuttle





wrote:
jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:21:51 -0500, BAR wrote:

jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0500, BAR wrote:

jps wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:44 -0500, BAR wrote:

...and Iran kicked it open.

I love how you use Obama's offer of diplomacy to belittle him.. *You'd
obviously prefer Bush's "dead or alive" approach.
Yes I prefer
And you think he's out of his league?

You're obviously not a believer in America or Americans.

The situation in Iran could be compared to the situation in 1909. *Japan
was a militaristic society. *In 1905 they had just defeat Russia. *Teddy
Roosevelt understanding the situation in the western Pacific sent the
Great White fleet into the areas in and around Japan in 1907 - 1909.
Because of this action, Japan did not act on her militaristic plans for
near thirty years until the pacifist gained the upper hand in the late
1930.

The pacifist policies toward Hitler's German encouraged Hitler and
within 6 years, we were in WWII.

I would rather have a President like President Bush who takes positive
actions to restrain a militaristic power that one who panders to them.
*If left unrestrained Iran will reach a point where the World will have
to act, and that will be significantly more costly that it is today.

Iraq and Iran are not the first time the US has taken a positive roll in
restrain a rogue nation. *I believe the first was in Tripoli in 1805,
Because of the militaristic action, that area of the world was in
relative peace for nearly 150 years.

If you are interested all of this information can be found with a google
search.

Bush wasn't taking action in Iraq because we were threatened. *He
wanted the oil for his family friends and business partners. *Besides,
those Islamic folks needed some of GW's christian values.

Yup, gotta' love it now that that oil is pouring in heh? Don't you
ever get off the talking points?

Afghanistan is something else, what I'm not sure. *We could either be
there for the right reason (squash al Qaeda/Taliban) or the wrong
reason (force western democracy on areas steeped in religious/tribal
cultures).

Afghanistan didn't go well for the Soviets and I don't expect it will
go well for us if our ambitions get the better of us.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Obama Cracked Open The Door...
 

"jps" wrote in message
...

Not so sure about that Eisboch. Africa loves GW Bush for his courage
in helping address the aids epidemic. It took Bono and a number of
others but GW stepped up.

The rest of the world can't stand Bush, Africa loves him.

Is that instructive in any way?



Watch what happens when we stop giving money to address the aids epidemic.
One of our biggest problems is that we buy our friends.

Not to say it isn't a worthwhile and good thing to do, but the reality is
that we
have a lot of fair weather friends in this world and most of them are
friendly only if
there's something in it for them.

Hard, cruel lesson number 2.

Eisboch