Hard/Soft Water
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:


"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was
better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is
cold
and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than
warm
water and made for better ditching conditions.

Any truth to this.

No - cold water is less dense than warm water.

That's why ice floats.

I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8)

This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even
appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes
ago.

Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks

Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior.
Still haven't seen you original post.
I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it.
Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks.
You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean.
I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though.
Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid
water. That's why it floats.
But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and
my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into
the water.
Diamonds are real hard, and are forever.
BTW, I'm not a scientist.

--Vic




Methinks you are wrong. Ice floats on water. The process of freezing is
a strange one.
First it contracts, then it expands and breaks water pipes.

Eisboch

You're absolutely correct. Water is unique in this aspect. As water cools,
it becomes more dense, contracts, and sinks... until it reaches 38ºF. As it
cools further from there, it becomes less dense, expands, and rises to the
surface. This is why ice floats, and engine blocks crack.

--Mike

Hard/Soft Water
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was
better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is
cold
and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than
warm
water and made for better ditching conditions.

Any truth to this.

No - cold water is less dense than warm water.

That's why ice floats.

I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8)

This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even
appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes
ago.

Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks




I think it's Giganews. Same thing here. I posted a response shortly
after Tom and it never showed up, yet he answered it.

Eisboch

If you ever see this, here is the reply I got from Giga News when I inquired
about poor performance. I think it's something else beside "heavy posting".

Thank you for contacting Giganews Technical Support!

Due to very heavy posting, the speed with which posts are propagating has
decreased. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. The post
speeds should be back to normal shortly.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

--
Jonathan
Giganews Support

Hard/Soft Water
 

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was
better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is
cold
and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm
water and made for better ditching conditions.

Any truth to this.

No - cold water is less dense than warm water.

That's why ice floats.

Depends on the temperature. Max density of fresh water is about 5 degrees
C. Ice floats because it causes a local aberration in gravity.

Hard/Soft Water
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:14:32 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:


"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it
was
better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is
cold
and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than
warm
water and made for better ditching conditions.

Any truth to this.

No - cold water is less dense than warm water.

That's why ice floats.

I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8)

This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even
appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes
ago.

Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks

Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior.
Still haven't seen you original post.
I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it.
Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks.
You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean.
I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though.
Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid
water. That's why it floats.
But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and
my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into
the water.
Diamonds are real hard, and are forever.
BTW, I'm not a scientist.

--Vic




Methinks you are wrong. Ice floats on water. The process of freezing is
a
strange one.
First it contracts, then it expands and breaks water pipes.

So what am I wrong about? The diamonds?

--Vic

Yup, diamonds burn.

Hard/Soft Water
 

"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:13:05 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:


"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it
was
better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is
cold
and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than
warm
water and made for better ditching conditions.

Any truth to this.

No - cold water is less dense than warm water.

That's why ice floats.

I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8)

This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even
appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes
ago.

Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks

Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior.
Still haven't seen you original post.
I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it.
Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks.
You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean.
I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though.
Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid
water. That's why it floats.
But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and
my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into
the water.
Diamonds are real hard, and are forever.
BTW, I'm not a scientist.

Water expands as it becomes colder.

You can't have expansion in a liquid without it becoming less dense.

It's why ice floats.

Wait - let me check on something.

Erm....sorry - I'm right, but I'm wrong at the same time. I forgot
one little minor detail.

Water expands at the freezing point - otherwise, it acts just like
other liquids. Water does become denser as it approaches the freezing
point.

Water temp in the Hudson was 41 degrees F which is almost at the point
of freezing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_(..._water_and_ice

So the newsguy was right, although I doubt that made much of a
difference.

But so what if you get hypothermia?

Bottom line, get out alive.


It is a US Airways flight. They going to reimburse all those $15-25 checked
bag charges?

Hard/Soft Water
 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:33:05 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was
better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold
and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm
water and made for better ditching conditions.

Any truth to this.

No - cold water is less dense than warm water.

That's why ice floats.

What you say??? Nope. Ice floats because it goes through a phase
change and expands when it freezes.

Liquid water density decreases as temperature goes up EXCEPT for a
very strange behaviour in that it's maximum density is at 4 degrees C
and drops from there down to 0, where it freezes. So from 4 degrees C
on up, colder water is more dense than warmer water. But the
difference in density is so slight I doubt it would make any
difference to a plane crashing on it.

Steve

Hard/Soft Water
 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:29:48 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:13:05 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:


"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it
was
better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is
cold
and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than
warm
water and made for better ditching conditions.

Any truth to this.

No - cold water is less dense than warm water.

That's why ice floats.

I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8)

This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even
appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes
ago.

Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks

Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior.
Still haven't seen you original post.
I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it.
Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks.
You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean.
I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though.
Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid
water. That's why it floats.
But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and
my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into
the water.
Diamonds are real hard, and are forever.
BTW, I'm not a scientist.

Water expands as it becomes colder.

You can't have expansion in a liquid without it becoming less dense.

It's why ice floats.

Wait - let me check on something.

Erm....sorry - I'm right, but I'm wrong at the same time. I forgot
one little minor detail.

Water expands at the freezing point - otherwise, it acts just like
other liquids. Water does become denser as it approaches the freezing
point.

Water temp in the Hudson was 41 degrees F which is almost at the point
of freezing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_(..._water_and_ice

So the newsguy was right, although I doubt that made much of a
difference.

But so what if you get hypothermia?

Bottom line, get out alive.


It is a US Airways flight. They going to reimburse all those $15-25 checked
bag charges?


No, they'll say the bags arrived at their destination.

Hard/Soft Water
 

On Jan 15, 5:11*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message

...





"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
messagenews:0cevm45sd2kt4u6o02mud7eujt7sskjck8@4ax .com...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was
better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is
cold
and not warm. *the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than
warm
water and made for better ditching conditions.

Any truth to this.

No - cold water is less dense than warm water.

That's why ice floats.

I guess that's why the plane is floating. *8)

This is really strange. *You answered my post and my post hasn't even
appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. *I made the post 65 minutes
ago.

Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. *Thanks

I think it's Giganews. *Same thing here. *I posted a response shortly after
Tom and it never showed up, yet he answered it.

Eisboch

Sounds like Giganews is gigging its subscribers.

Hard/Soft Water
 

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:


"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was
better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is
cold
and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than
warm
water and made for better ditching conditions.

Any truth to this.

No - cold water is less dense than warm water.

That's why ice floats.

I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8)

This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even
appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes
ago.

Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks

1648 today's date. There is a -0500 which would equal UTC time
difference.

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck"....

That's when I sent it, but no sign of it Giga News server even now.

Thanks

This posted within seconds so maybe they fixed their probem n/m