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Hard/Soft Water
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. |
Hard/Soft Water
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks |
Hard/Soft Water
D.Duck wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks Tom is an extraterrestrial. The space-time continuum does not apply to him. But it does apply to ducks. |
Hard/Soft Water
"D.Duck" wrote in message ... "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks I think it's Giganews. Same thing here. I posted a response shortly after Tom and it never showed up, yet he answered it. Eisboch |
Hard/Soft Water
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior. Still haven't seen you original post. I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it. Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks. You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean. I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though. Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid water. That's why it floats. But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into the water. Diamonds are real hard, and are forever. BTW, I'm not a scientist. --Vic |
Hard/Soft Water
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior. Still haven't seen you original post. I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it. Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks. You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean. I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though. Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid water. That's why it floats. But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into the water. Diamonds are real hard, and are forever. BTW, I'm not a scientist. --Vic Methinks you are wrong. Ice floats on water. The process of freezing is a strange one. First it contracts, then it expands and breaks water pipes. Eisboch |
Hard/Soft Water
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks 1648 today's date. There is a -0500 which would equal UTC time difference. On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck".... |
Hard/Soft Water
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:14:32 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior. Still haven't seen you original post. I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it. Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks. You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean. I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though. Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid water. That's why it floats. But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into the water. Diamonds are real hard, and are forever. BTW, I'm not a scientist. --Vic Methinks you are wrong. Ice floats on water. The process of freezing is a strange one. First it contracts, then it expands and breaks water pipes. So what am I wrong about? The diamonds? --Vic |
Hard/Soft Water
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:24:59 -0500, "jamesgangnc"
wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior. Still haven't seen you original post. I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it. Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks. You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean. I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though. Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid water. That's why it floats. But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into the water. Diamonds are real hard, and are forever. BTW, I'm not a scientist. Methinks you are wrong. Ice floats on water. The process of freezing is a strange one. First it contracts, then it expands and breaks water pipes. I suppose this is sort of boating related.... sigh. Sucked you in did we? :) As water gets colder it gets denser. However as it approaches freezing the way the water molecules start crystalizing results in a less dense solid. There are very few things that behave this way and water is one of them. It is a good thing to otherwise the bottom of the ocean and big lakes would be frozen forever. Yep - the only thing I remember from my cold water survival course with Dr. Murray Hamlet (which was a blast by the way - cold, but a lot of fun) was that freezing water is less dense than warmer waters. Forgot all about the whole hydrogen bond thing. However, they are pulling the Yamahas off the Canyon 33 tomorrow, so maybe we can move it next week. So that makes it an official boating post. :) |
Hard/Soft Water
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:13:05 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior. Still haven't seen you original post. I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it. Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks. You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean. I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though. Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid water. That's why it floats. But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into the water. Diamonds are real hard, and are forever. BTW, I'm not a scientist. Water expands as it becomes colder. You can't have expansion in a liquid without it becoming less dense. It's why ice floats. Wait - let me check on something. Erm....sorry - I'm right, but I'm wrong at the same time. I forgot one little minor detail. Water expands at the freezing point - otherwise, it acts just like other liquids. Water does become denser as it approaches the freezing point. Water temp in the Hudson was 41 degrees F which is almost at the point of freezing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_(..._water_and_ice So the newsguy was right, although I doubt that made much of a difference. But so what if you get hypothermia? Bottom line, get out alive. |
Hard/Soft Water
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior. Still haven't seen you original post. I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it. Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks. You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean. I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though. Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid water. That's why it floats. But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into the water. Diamonds are real hard, and are forever. BTW, I'm not a scientist. --Vic Methinks you are wrong. Ice floats on water. The process of freezing is a strange one. First it contracts, then it expands and breaks water pipes. Eisboch You're absolutely correct. Water is unique in this aspect. As water cools, it becomes more dense, contracts, and sinks... until it reaches 38ºF. As it cools further from there, it becomes less dense, expands, and rises to the surface. This is why ice floats, and engine blocks crack. --Mike |
Hard/Soft Water
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "D.Duck" wrote in message ... "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks I think it's Giganews. Same thing here. I posted a response shortly after Tom and it never showed up, yet he answered it. Eisboch If you ever see this, here is the reply I got from Giga News when I inquired about poor performance. I think it's something else beside "heavy posting". Thank you for contacting Giganews Technical Support! Due to very heavy posting, the speed with which posts are propagating has decreased. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. The post speeds should be back to normal shortly. Thank you for your patience and cooperation. -- Jonathan Giganews Support |
Hard/Soft Water
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. Depends on the temperature. Max density of fresh water is about 5 degrees C. Ice floats because it causes a local aberration in gravity. |
Hard/Soft Water
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:14:32 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior. Still haven't seen you original post. I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it. Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks. You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean. I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though. Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid water. That's why it floats. But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into the water. Diamonds are real hard, and are forever. BTW, I'm not a scientist. --Vic Methinks you are wrong. Ice floats on water. The process of freezing is a strange one. First it contracts, then it expands and breaks water pipes. So what am I wrong about? The diamonds? --Vic Yup, diamonds burn. |
Hard/Soft Water
"Canuck57" wrote in message ... "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:13:05 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior. Still haven't seen you original post. I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it. Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks. You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean. I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though. Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid water. That's why it floats. But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into the water. Diamonds are real hard, and are forever. BTW, I'm not a scientist. Water expands as it becomes colder. You can't have expansion in a liquid without it becoming less dense. It's why ice floats. Wait - let me check on something. Erm....sorry - I'm right, but I'm wrong at the same time. I forgot one little minor detail. Water expands at the freezing point - otherwise, it acts just like other liquids. Water does become denser as it approaches the freezing point. Water temp in the Hudson was 41 degrees F which is almost at the point of freezing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_(..._water_and_ice So the newsguy was right, although I doubt that made much of a difference. But so what if you get hypothermia? Bottom line, get out alive. It is a US Airways flight. They going to reimburse all those $15-25 checked bag charges? |
Hard/Soft Water
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:33:05 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote: On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. What you say??? Nope. Ice floats because it goes through a phase change and expands when it freezes. Liquid water density decreases as temperature goes up EXCEPT for a very strange behaviour in that it's maximum density is at 4 degrees C and drops from there down to 0, where it freezes. So from 4 degrees C on up, colder water is more dense than warmer water. But the difference in density is so slight I doubt it would make any difference to a plane crashing on it. Steve |
Hard/Soft Water
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:29:48 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote: "Canuck57" wrote in message ... "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:13:05 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks Giganews is screwing up. I'm seeing the same odd behavior. Still haven't seen you original post. I heard that guy too, and thought he was full of it. Cold water is more dense than warmer water, which is why it sinks. You've heard of thermoclines. I've even felt it wading in the ocean. I don't think it makes a difference in landing a plane on it though. Ice is an expanded state of water. Takes of more space than liquid water. That's why it floats. But ice is harder than water. At least I think it is when I fall and my ass lands on it. Doesn't hurt when I fall the same distance into the water. Diamonds are real hard, and are forever. BTW, I'm not a scientist. Water expands as it becomes colder. You can't have expansion in a liquid without it becoming less dense. It's why ice floats. Wait - let me check on something. Erm....sorry - I'm right, but I'm wrong at the same time. I forgot one little minor detail. Water expands at the freezing point - otherwise, it acts just like other liquids. Water does become denser as it approaches the freezing point. Water temp in the Hudson was 41 degrees F which is almost at the point of freezing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_(..._water_and_ice So the newsguy was right, although I doubt that made much of a difference. But so what if you get hypothermia? Bottom line, get out alive. It is a US Airways flight. They going to reimburse all those $15-25 checked bag charges? No, they'll say the bags arrived at their destination. |
Hard/Soft Water
On Jan 15, 5:11*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message ... "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in messagenews:0cevm45sd2kt4u6o02mud7eujt7sskjck8@4ax .com... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. *the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. *8) This is really strange. *You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. *I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. *Thanks I think it's Giganews. *Same thing here. *I posted a response shortly after Tom and it never showed up, yet he answered it. Eisboch Sounds like Giganews is gigging its subscribers. |
Hard/Soft Water
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:57:15 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: "Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote: Concerning the recent crash one of the TV commentators said that it was better for the airplanes survivability that the water in the Hudson is cold and not warm. the reason he said is that cold water is *harder* than warm water and made for better ditching conditions. Any truth to this. No - cold water is less dense than warm water. That's why ice floats. I guess that's why the plane is floating. 8) This is really strange. You answered my post and my post hasn't even appeared on my news service (Giga News)yet. I made the post 65 minutes ago. Can you tell me what time stamp in on my original post. Thanks 1648 today's date. There is a -0500 which would equal UTC time difference. On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:48:20 -0500, "D.Duck".... That's when I sent it, but no sign of it Giga News server even now. Thanks |
This posted within seconds so maybe they fixed their probem n/m
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This posted within seconds so maybe they fixed their probem n/m
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:33:09 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
I just noticed that my Easynews feed just started to post quickly - or at least quicker than it had been posting. I wonder if there was a system wide glitch or something? I just googled around and there are other paid news servers that are having similar problems - it's not just giganews or easynews. Hmmm.... |
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