Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as likely
to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence and are
significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth
control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless of
whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the percentage who
took precautions against pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases was
10 points lower for pledgers than for non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg
School of Public Health, whose report appears in the January issue of
the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a difference in condom
use and other forms of birth control that is quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage, including
those that specifically ask students to publicly declare their intention
to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes beyond earlier
analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values about sex and other
issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new Obama
administration are about to reconsider the more than $176 million in
annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown of
the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. "What
have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex until they
are older, but then when they do become sexually active -- and most do
well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or their partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get real
about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed and
argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further than
simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content of
abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's National
Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered detailed
information from a representative sample of about 11,000 students in
grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to use
a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex before
they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or taken a
virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were 17 years
old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge, with 645 who
did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She based that
judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes and their
parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their friends'
attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a virginity
pledge tends to be different from the average American teenager. The
pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be more conservative.
They tend to be less positive about sex. There are some striking
differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to all non-pledgers
doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge had
retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference in the
proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any type of
sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex, vaginal
intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their number of
sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged in various
types of sexual activity, had an average of about three sexual partners
and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence has
to come from an individual conviction rather than participating in a
program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the pledge,
and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use any form of
contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who had taken a
pledge said they always used a condom, compared with about 34 percent of
those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about condoms
in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take part
in abstinence-only education have more negative views about condoms,"
she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about condoms and
birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the level
of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the risk."


snerk


I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:52:32 -0500, Boater wrote
about his lack of premarital sex.

--
** Good Day! **

John H

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"BAR" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and Less
Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

Yes or no, those who abstain from sex do not contract sexually transmitted
diseases?


True, but that's not the point of the article. Read it 10 more times. If you
still think it's the point of the article, nothing can be done to help you.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and Less
Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02


Old news. I wonder how many more research entities will waste money figuring
out what's been known since....forever.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and Less
Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02


Old news. I wonder how many more research entities will waste money figuring
out what's been known since....forever.


The data indicates that promises don't mean much to young folks,
includeing Barak Obama.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02


Old news. I wonder how many more research entities will waste money
figuring out what's been known since....forever.

The data indicates that promises don't mean much to young folks,

Yes. That's what the article said. Nobody needed you to repeat it, Mr. Cliff
Notes.


includeing Barak Obama.

In that case, Obama is either:

1) Cutting a deal with religious idiots because he needs something from them
in return (highly likely).

2) As stupid as George Bush & Arlen Spector, who actually believe this
abstinence education nonsense.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Dec 29, 11:48*pm, Boater wrote:
BAR wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

Yes or no, those who abstain from sex do not contract sexually
transmitted diseases?

Did it work for you?

It works for anybody and everybody who does so, idiot.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as likely
to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence and are
significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth
control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless of
whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the percentage who
took precautions against pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases was
10 points lower for pledgers than for non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg
School of Public Health, whose report appears in the January issue of
the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a difference in condom
use and other forms of birth control that is quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage, including
those that specifically ask students to publicly declare their intention
to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes beyond earlier
analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values about sex and other
issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new Obama
administration are about to reconsider the more than $176 million in
annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown of
the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. "What
have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex until they
are older, but then when they do become sexually active -- and most do
well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or their partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get real
about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed and
argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further than
simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content of
abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's National
Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered detailed
information from a representative sample of about 11,000 students in
grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to use
a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex before
they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or taken a
virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were 17 years
old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge, with 645 who
did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She based that
judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes and their
parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their friends'
attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a virginity
pledge tends to be different from the average American teenager. The
pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be more conservative.
They tend to be less positive about sex. There are some striking
differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to all non-pledgers
doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge had
retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference in the
proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any type of
sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex, vaginal
intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their number of
sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged in various
types of sexual activity, had an average of about three sexual partners
and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence has
to come from an individual conviction rather than participating in a
program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the pledge,
and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use any form of
contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who had taken a
pledge said they always used a condom, compared with about 34 percent of
those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about condoms
in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take part
in abstinence-only education have more negative views about condoms,"
she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about condoms and
birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the level
of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the
risk."


snerk


I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.

Take it to another group.

Harry Krause
2015 Rosedale Lane

There's more. Should we continue, WAFA?

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

D K wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the January
issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new Obama
administration are about to reconsider the more than $176 million in
annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown of
the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. "What
have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex until
they are older, but then when they do become sexually active -- and
most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or their
partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get real
about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further than
simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content of
abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's National
Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered detailed
information from a representative sample of about 11,000 students in
grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or taken
a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were 17
years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge, with
645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She based
that judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes and
their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be more
conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There are some
striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to all
non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if
they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence has
to come from an individual conviction rather than participating in a
program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use any
form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who had
taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with about 34
percent of those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about condoms
in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about
condoms and birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the
risk."


snerk


I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.

Take it to another group.

Harry Krause
2015 Rosedale Lane

There's more. Should we continue, WAFA?
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475306,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/12/30/virginity.pledges/

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

Keith nuttle wrote:

Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the
January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new
Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176
million in annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown
of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
"What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex
until they are older, but then when they do become sexually active --
and most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or
their partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get
real about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further
than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content
of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's
National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered
detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000
students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or
taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were
17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge,
with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She
based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes
and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be
more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There are
some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to
all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if
they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence
has to come from an individual conviction rather than participating
in a program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use
any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who
had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with
about 34 percent of those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about
condoms in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about
condoms and birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the
risk."


snerk


I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.

As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:


I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.


Trying to prevent teen pregnancies and the spread of STDs is a
worthwhile activity. Trying to put a stop to teen sexuality is an
exercise in futility and stupidity.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"Keith nuttle" wrote in message
...
D K wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as likely
to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence and are
significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth
control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless of
whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the percentage who
took precautions against pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases was
10 points lower for pledgers than for non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg
School of Public Health, whose report appears in the January issue of
the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a difference in condom
use and other forms of birth control that is quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage, including
those that specifically ask students to publicly declare their intention
to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes beyond earlier
analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values about sex and other
issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new Obama
administration are about to reconsider the more than $176 million in
annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown of
the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. "What
have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex until they
are older, but then when they do become sexually active -- and most do
well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or their
partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get real
about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed and
argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further than
simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content of
abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's National
Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered detailed
information from a representative sample of about 11,000 students in
grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to use
a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex before
they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or taken a
virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were 17 years
old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge, with 645 who
did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She based that
judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes and their
parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their friends'
attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a virginity
pledge tends to be different from the average American teenager. The
pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be more conservative.
They tend to be less positive about sex. There are some striking
differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to all non-pledgers
doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge had
retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference in the
proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any type of
sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex, vaginal
intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their number of
sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged in various
types of sexual activity, had an average of about three sexual partners
and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if they were
unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence has
to come from an individual conviction rather than participating in a
program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the pledge,
and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use any form of
contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who had taken a
pledge said they always used a condom, compared with about 34 percent of
those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about condoms
in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take part
in abstinence-only education have more negative views about condoms,"
she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about condoms and
birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the level
of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the
risk."


snerk


I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.

Take it to another group.

Harry Krause
2015 Rosedale Lane

There's more. Should we continue, WAFA?
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the average
American teen. To Quot CNN:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475306,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/12/30/virginity.pledges/

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage pregnancy,
not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of the first
marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting for their
partner of their first marriage.

There's nothing wrong with teaching abstinence as part of a larger sex
education curriculum. The problem is that there are people who think that
the ONLY thing kids should be taught is abstinence. I've seen surveys
mentioned which indicate that some outrageous number of kids - might've been
around 45% - get NO INFORMATION about sex from their parents. If they also
get NO INFORMATION at school.....

You can finish that last sentence.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Keith nuttle" wrote in message
...

Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as likely
to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence and are
significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth
control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless of
whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the percentage who
took precautions against pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases was
10 points lower for pledgers than for non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg
School of Public Health, whose report appears in the January issue of
the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a difference in condom
use and other forms of birth control that is quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage, including
those that specifically ask students to publicly declare their intention
to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes beyond earlier
analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values about sex and other
issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new Obama
administration are about to reconsider the more than $176 million in
annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown of
the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. "What
have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex until they
are older, but then when they do become sexually active -- and most do
well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or their
partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get real
about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed and
argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further than
simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content of
abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's National
Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered detailed
information from a representative sample of about 11,000 students in
grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to use
a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex before
they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or taken a
virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were 17 years
old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge, with 645 who
did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She based that
judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes and their
parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their friends'
attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a virginity
pledge tends to be different from the average American teenager. The
pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be more conservative.
They tend to be less positive about sex. There are some striking
differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to all non-pledgers
doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge had
retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference in the
proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any type of
sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex, vaginal
intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their number of
sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged in various
types of sexual activity, had an average of about three sexual partners
and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if they were
unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence has
to come from an individual conviction rather than participating in a
program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the pledge,
and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use any form of
contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who had taken a
pledge said they always used a condom, compared with about 34 percent of
those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about condoms
in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take part
in abstinence-only education have more negative views about condoms,"
she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about condoms and
birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the level
of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the
risk."


snerk


I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.

As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the average
American teen. To Quot CNN:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475306,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/12/30/virginity.pledges/

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage pregnancy,
not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of the first
marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting for their
partner of their first marriage.

There's nothing wrong with teaching abstinence as part of a larger sex
education curriculum. The problem is that there are people who think that
the ONLY thing kids should be taught is abstinence. I've seen surveys
mentioned which indicate that some outrageous number of kids - might've been
around 45% - get NO INFORMATION about sex from their parents. If they also
get NO INFORMATION at school.....

You can finish that last sentence.




Or they get the wrong information at home and at school.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Jan 3, 8:35*am, boater wrote:
Keith nuttle wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the
January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new
Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176
million in annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown
of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
"What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex
until they are older, but then when they do become sexually active --
and most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or
their partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get
real about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further
than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content
of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's
National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered
detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000
students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or
taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were
17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge,
with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She
based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes
and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be
more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There are
some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to
all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if
they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence
has to come from an individual conviction rather than participating
in a program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use
any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who
had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with
about 34 percent of those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about
condoms in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about
condoms and birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the
risk."

*snerk

I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. *Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. *I believe 21 is about the age of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.

Trying to prevent teen pregnancies and the spread of STDs is a
worthwhile activity. Trying to put a stop to teen sexuality is an
exercise in futility and stupidity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's many studies to the contrary. Of course, we all know that
Harry wouldn't let a little thing like facts get in the way of his
thoughts.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 8:35 am, boater wrote:
Keith nuttle wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the
January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new
Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176
million in annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown
of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
"What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex
until they are older, but then when they do become sexually active --
and most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or
their partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get
real about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further
than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain
virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content
of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's
National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered
detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000
students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or
taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were
17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge,
with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She
based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes
and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be
more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There are
some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to
all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if
they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence
has to come from an individual conviction rather than participating
in a program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use
any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who
had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with
about 34 percent of those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about
condoms in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about
condoms and birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the
risk."

snerk

I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.

Trying to prevent teen pregnancies and the spread of STDs is a
worthwhile activity. Trying to put a stop to teen sexuality is an
exercise in futility and stupidity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's many studies to the contrary. Of course, we all know that
Harry wouldn't let a little thing like facts get in the way of his
thoughts.

===============

Be careful about what you want to believe is important. Do you find this
interesting?

"Both groups had about the same number of sexually transmitted diseases as
well and had, on average, three sexual partners. Teens who took the pledge
had 0.1 fewer partners, on average."

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 8:35 am, boater wrote:
Keith nuttle wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate
By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02
Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.
The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.
"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the
January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."
The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.
"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."
The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new
Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176
million in annual funding for such programs.
"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown
of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
"What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex
until they are older, but then when they do become sexually active --
and most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or
their partners?"
James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get
real about sex education in America."
Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further
than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain
virgins.
"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content
of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.
Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's
National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered
detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000
students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.
Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.
Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or
taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were
17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge,
with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She
based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes
and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.
"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be
more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There are
some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to
all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."
By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if
they were unmarried.
"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence
has to come from an individual conviction rather than participating
in a program."
While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use
any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who
had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with
about 34 percent of those who had not.
Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about
condoms in abstinence-focused programs.
"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about
condoms and birth control."
But Huber disputed that charge.
"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the
risk."
snerk
I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:
I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.
Trying to prevent teen pregnancies and the spread of STDs is a
worthwhile activity. Trying to put a stop to teen sexuality is an
exercise in futility and stupidity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's many studies to the contrary. Of course, we all know that
Harry wouldn't let a little thing like facts get in the way of his
thoughts.

===============

Be careful about what you want to believe is important. Do you find this
interesting?

"Both groups had about the same number of sexually transmitted diseases as
well and had, on average, three sexual partners. Teens who took the pledge
had 0.1 fewer partners, on average."




Doug...you didn't believe Loogy read the article, did you? :)

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:19:06 -0500, boater wrote:

Or they get the wrong information at home and at school.

When I was in the seventh grade, about 1960 everyone was sufficiently
knowledgable about sex. Everyone knew how to screw and what a condom
was for. Sex education by parents and schools was immaterial. By that
time everyone had been clued in by the older kids.

Casady

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"Keith nuttle" wrote in message
...
D K wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as likely
to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence and are
significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of birth
control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless of
whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the percentage who
took precautions against pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases was
10 points lower for pledgers than for non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg
School of Public Health, whose report appears in the January issue of
the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a difference in condom
use and other forms of birth control that is quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage, including
those that specifically ask students to publicly declare their intention
to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes beyond earlier
analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values about sex and other
issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new Obama
administration are about to reconsider the more than $176 million in
annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown of
the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. "What
have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex until they
are older, but then when they do become sexually active -- and most do
well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or their
partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get real
about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed and
argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further than
simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content of
abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's National
Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered detailed
information from a representative sample of about 11,000 students in
grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to use
a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex before
they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or taken a
virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were 17 years
old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge, with 645 who
did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She based that
judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes and their
parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their friends'
attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a virginity
pledge tends to be different from the average American teenager. The
pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be more conservative.
They tend to be less positive about sex. There are some striking
differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to all non-pledgers
doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge had
retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference in the
proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any type of
sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex, vaginal
intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their number of
sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged in various
types of sexual activity, had an average of about three sexual partners
and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if they were
unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence has
to come from an individual conviction rather than participating in a
program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the pledge,
and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use any form of
contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who had taken a
pledge said they always used a condom, compared with about 34 percent of
those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about condoms
in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take part
in abstinence-only education have more negative views about condoms,"
she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about condoms and
birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the level
of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the
risk."


snerk


I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.

Take it to another group.

Harry Krause
2015 Rosedale Lane

There's more. Should we continue, WAFA?
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the average
American teen. To Quot CNN:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475306,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/12/30/virginity.pledges/

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage pregnancy,
not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of the first
marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting for their
partner of their first marriage.


Waiting longer might be a good thing, if it means people have had a chance
to outgrow the "nothing bad can happen to me" thing which is common to many
teenagers. Unfortunately, the foxnews article suggests that even if they
wait longer to have sex.....

"Both groups had about the same number of sexually transmitted diseases as
well and had, on average, three sexual partners. Teens who took the pledge
had 0.1 fewer partners, on average."

Why do you suppose that is?

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:19:06 -0500, boater wrote:

Or they get the wrong information at home and at school.

When I was in the seventh grade, about 1960 everyone was sufficiently
knowledgable about sex. Everyone knew how to screw and what a condom
was for. Sex education by parents and schools was immaterial. By that
time everyone had been clued in by the older kids.

Casady


Of course, the risks were much lower in those days. Unless you somehow
managed to NOT be treated for syphilis, you were unlikely to die from an
STD.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

Richard Casady wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:19:06 -0500, boater wrote:

Or they get the wrong information at home and at school.

When I was in the seventh grade, about 1960 everyone was sufficiently
knowledgable about sex. Everyone knew how to screw and what a condom
was for. Sex education by parents and schools was immaterial. By that
time everyone had been clued in by the older kids.

Casady

Likewise, but it was junior high for me.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Jan 3, 9:30*am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 8:35 am, boater wrote:





Keith nuttle wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the
January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new
Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176
million in annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown
of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
"What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex
until they are older, but then when they do become sexually active --
and most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or
their partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get
real about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further
than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain
virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content
of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's
National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered
detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000
students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or
taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were
17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge,
with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She
based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their attitudes
and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be
more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There are
some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers to
all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if
they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence
has to come from an individual conviction rather than participating
in a program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use
any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those who
had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with
about 34 percent of those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about
condoms in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information about
condoms and birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove the
risk."

snerk

I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.

Trying to prevent teen pregnancies and the spread of STDs is a
worthwhile activity. Trying to put a stop to teen sexuality is an
exercise in futility and stupidity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's many studies to the contrary. Of course, we all know that
Harry wouldn't let a little thing like facts get in the way of his
thoughts.

===============

Be careful about what you want to believe is important. Do you find this
interesting?

"Both groups had about the same number of sexually transmitted diseases as
well and had, on average, three sexual partners. Teens who took the pledge
had 0.1 fewer partners, on average."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Taking a pledge and actually abstaining is two completely different
things.
Here, see for yourself, and show your buddy Harry.
http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 9:30 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 8:35 am, boater wrote:





Keith nuttle wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex, and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage
regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the
January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new
Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176
million in annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown
of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
"What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex
until they are older, but then when they do become sexually
active --
and most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves or
their partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed: "The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get
real about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further
than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain
virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content
of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the
National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's
National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered
detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000
students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or
taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who were
17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge,
with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She
based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their
attitudes
and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be
more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There
are
some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers
to
all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant
difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even if
they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence
has to come from an individual conviction rather than participating
in a program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use
any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those
who
had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with
about 34 percent of those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about
condoms in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information
about
condoms and birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms
may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove
the
risk."

snerk

I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with her
younger daughter.
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.

Trying to prevent teen pregnancies and the spread of STDs is a
worthwhile activity. Trying to put a stop to teen sexuality is an
exercise in futility and stupidity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's many studies to the contrary. Of course, we all know that
Harry wouldn't let a little thing like facts get in the way of his
thoughts.

===============

Be careful about what you want to believe is important. Do you find this
interesting?

"Both groups had about the same number of sexually transmitted diseases as
well and had, on average, three sexual partners. Teens who took the pledge
had 0.1 fewer partners, on average."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Taking a pledge and actually abstaining is two completely different
things.
Here, see for yourself, and show your buddy Harry.
http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains, so we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised only about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all indicative of
the population as a whole.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 9:30 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 8:35 am, boater wrote:





Keith nuttle wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex,
and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise
abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that
more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage
regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the
January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make
a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions
about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only
the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new
Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176
million in annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah Brown
of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
"What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay sex
until they are older, but then when they do become sexually
active --
and most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves
or
their partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed:
"The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get
real about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further
than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain
virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the content
of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the
National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's
National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered
detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000
students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first
to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or
taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who
were
17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity pledge,
with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She
based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their
attitudes
and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of
their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be
more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There
are
some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers
to
all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a
pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant
difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had
engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even
if
they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence
has to come from an individual conviction rather than participating
in a program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use
any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those
who
had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with
about 34 percent of those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about
condoms in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information
about
condoms and birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms
may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove
the
risk."

snerk

I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with
her
younger daughter.
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on
other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely
to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.

Trying to prevent teen pregnancies and the spread of STDs is a
worthwhile activity. Trying to put a stop to teen sexuality is an
exercise in futility and stupidity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's many studies to the contrary. Of course, we all know that
Harry wouldn't let a little thing like facts get in the way of his
thoughts.

===============

Be careful about what you want to believe is important. Do you find this
interesting?

"Both groups had about the same number of sexually transmitted diseases
as
well and had, on average, three sexual partners. Teens who took the
pledge
had 0.1 fewer partners, on average."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Taking a pledge and actually abstaining is two completely different
things.
Here, see for yourself, and show your buddy Harry.
http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people
time to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of
the articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains,
so we probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains
comprised only about 10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are
not at all indicative of the population as a whole.

I have no idea of the validity of the data on this web site. The 42% figure
for 2007 seems high to me. I cannot recall anyone that I've had a personal
relationship ever mentioning they were "born again".

Forgot to attach the URL
 

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=8

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 9:30 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 8:35 am, boater wrote:





Keith nuttle wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex,
and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02

Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise
abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms
of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.

The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that
more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage
regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.

"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the
January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make
a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."

The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions
about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar
values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.

"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only
the
apples to other apples."

The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new
Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176
million in annual funding for such programs.

"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government
is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah
Brown
of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
"What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay
sex
until they are older, but then when they do become sexually
active --
and most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves
or
their partners?"

James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed:
"The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get
real about sex education in America."

Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as
flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further
than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain
virgins.

"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the
content
of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the
National
Abstinence Education Association.

Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's
National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered
detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000
students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.

Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first
to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that
could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.

Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or
taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who
were
17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity
pledge,
with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She
based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their
attitudes
and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of
their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.

"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be
more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There
are
some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers
to
all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."

By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a
pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant
difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in
any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had
engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even
if
they were unmarried.

"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence
has to come from an individual conviction rather than
participating
in a program."

While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who
reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use
any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those
who
had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with
about 34 percent of those who had not.

Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about
condoms in abstinence-focused programs.

"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information
about
condoms and birth control."

But Huber disputed that charge.

"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms
may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove
the
risk."

snerk

I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with
her
younger daughter.
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on
other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely
to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age
of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably
waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.

Trying to prevent teen pregnancies and the spread of STDs is a
worthwhile activity. Trying to put a stop to teen sexuality is an
exercise in futility and stupidity.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's many studies to the contrary. Of course, we all know that
Harry wouldn't let a little thing like facts get in the way of his
thoughts.

===============

Be careful about what you want to believe is important. Do you find this
interesting?

"Both groups had about the same number of sexually transmitted diseases
as
well and had, on average, three sexual partners. Teens who took the
pledge
had 0.1 fewer partners, on average."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Taking a pledge and actually abstaining is two completely different
things.
Here, see for yourself, and show your buddy Harry.
http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people
time to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of
the articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains,
so we probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains
comprised only about 10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are
not at all indicative of the population as a whole.

I have no idea of the validity of the data on this web site. The 42%
figure for 2007 seems high to me. I cannot recall anyone that I've had a
personal relationship ever mentioning they were "born again".


Who knows...my 10% figure came from a few articles I read about McCain
trying to win back evangelicals. In any case, targeting that group for a sex
study is a bit goofy, unless the researchers make it absolutely clear that
the numbers came from a fringe group. May as well be asking the Taliban
about their attitudes toward women in the workplace.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


There's nothing wrong with teaching abstinence as part of a larger sex
education curriculum. The problem is that there are people who think that
the ONLY thing kids should be taught is abstinence. I've seen surveys
mentioned which indicate that some outrageous number of kids - might've
been around 45% - get NO INFORMATION about sex from their parents. If they
also get NO INFORMATION at school.....

You can finish that last sentence.



This has become all very complicated. After getting a lecture on respecting
girls and women, I entered my teen dating years with a very clear idea of
birth control. Basically it was a mental image of two grown men coming
after me with baseball bats. One would be the girl's father. The other
would be mine.

Eisboch

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


There's nothing wrong with teaching abstinence as part of a larger sex
education curriculum. The problem is that there are people who think that
the ONLY thing kids should be taught is abstinence. I've seen surveys
mentioned which indicate that some outrageous number of kids - might've
been around 45% - get NO INFORMATION about sex from their parents. If
they also get NO INFORMATION at school.....

You can finish that last sentence.



This has become all very complicated. After getting a lecture on
respecting girls and women, I entered my teen dating years with a very
clear idea of birth control. Basically it was a mental image of two grown
men coming after me with baseball bats. One would be the girl's father.
The other would be mine.

Eisboch

My son got the same explanation. "Your girlfriends automatically become my
daughters. Capisce?" I told him there was no expiration date on that
arrangement. :-)

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:32:59 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:



As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475306,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/12/30/virginity.pledges/

I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.

Poor conclusion.

Your own links provide, "[the]...study also only looked at teens who
were unmarried five years after taking virginity pledges, now ages 20
to 23. "The married are out of the picture, so they're not as
interesting," she said."

When I read a report like this, I have to ask questions about what
"religious teen" means. On the surface, this appears to be a confusion
of spurious variables... and it seems the conclusion of the study is
goofy, at best.

Contrast: "making a virginity pledge doesn't play a role (sic) any
sexual behavior because teenagers who take a pledge are just as likely
to have premarital sex as those who do not promise abstinence. The
study also revealed that those who took virginity pledges where less
likely to use condoms that non-pledgers, she said."

With: Overall, religious students, regardless of whether they take
virginity pledges, are more conservative than their non-religious
peers. When compared against national averages, "they are having sex
an average of about three years later than the average American,"


And getting STDs at the same rate??? (Hmmmm...scratching chin.....)

And you, therefore, have a conclusion from a study that essentially
says, if we pick a certain group of students (we'll call them
"religious" whether they ever went to church or not) that have
predispositions toward certain behavior and they act in that way, we
have proof that "religion" controls sexual behavior.

The "facts" seem to suggest that teenage religion is a clear
contributor towards STDs.....

Huh?

Who paid for this silly study?


Nice analysis, although likely to be ignored.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:12:55 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people
time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains, so
we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised only
about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all indicative
of
the population as a whole.


You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if they wait longer? Or,
in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

In DC, for 2005:

The teenage pregnancy rate for 2005 was 64.4 pregnancies per 1,000 women
aged 15-19 years,

http://tinyurl.com/75nboa

Note that this number is based on the 'reported' outcomes, live births,
*reported* fetal deaths, and *reported* induced abortions. In other words,
the problem is very under stated.

Of course, this will allow for an increase in the welfare rolls, so from a
liberal's perspective, it may be a good thing.


You never saw me claim that waiting was not a good idea.

You may be wishing so hard that you saw me make that claim, that you have
actually turned it into reality in your own mind. But, I never made that
claim.

You will now disagree. You know the drill. Go find something typed by me,
which supports your claim.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:12:55 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains, so we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised only about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all indicative of
the population as a whole.


You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if they wait longer? Or,
in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

In DC, for 2005:

The teenage pregnancy rate for 2005 was 64.4 pregnancies per 1,000 women
aged 15-19 years,

http://tinyurl.com/75nboa

Note that this number is based on the 'reported' outcomes, live births,
*reported* fetal deaths, and *reported* induced abortions. In other words,
the problem is very under stated.

Of course, this will allow for an increase in the welfare rolls, so from a
liberal's perspective, it may be a good thing.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:02:35 -0500, boater wrote:

Richard Casady wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:19:06 -0500, boater wrote:

Or they get the wrong information at home and at school.

When I was in the seventh grade, about 1960 everyone was sufficiently
knowledgable about sex. Everyone knew how to screw and what a condom
was for. Sex education by parents and schools was immaterial. By that
time everyone had been clued in by the older kids.

Casady

Likewise, but it was junior high for me.

I went to a 7-12 school. They called 7-9 junior high. Seventh graders
could listen to the seniors war stories.

Casady

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 9:30 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 8:35 am, boater wrote:





Keith nuttle wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex,
and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate
By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02
Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise
abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms
of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.
The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that
more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage
regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.
"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the
January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make
a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."
The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions
about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar
values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.
"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only
the
apples to other apples."
The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new
Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176
million in annual funding for such programs.
"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government
is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah
Brown
of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
"What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay
sex
until they are older, but then when they do become sexually
active --
and most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves
or
their partners?"
James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed:
"The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get
real about sex education in America."
Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as
flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further
than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain
virgins.
"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the
content
of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the
National
Abstinence Education Association.
Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's
National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered
detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000
students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.
Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first
to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that
could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.
Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or
taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who
were
17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity
pledge,
with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She
based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their
attitudes
and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of
their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.
"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be
more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There
are
some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers
to
all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."
By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a
pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant
difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in
any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had
engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even
if
they were unmarried.
"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence
has to come from an individual conviction rather than
participating
in a program."
While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who
reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use
any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those
who
had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with
about 34 percent of those who had not.
Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about
condoms in abstinence-focused programs.
"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information
about
condoms and birth control."
But Huber disputed that charge.
"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms
may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove
the
risk."
snerk
I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with
her
younger daughter.
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on
other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely
to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:
I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age
of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably
waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.
Trying to prevent teen pregnancies and the spread of STDs is a
worthwhile activity. Trying to put a stop to teen sexuality is an
exercise in futility and stupidity.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
There's many studies to the contrary. Of course, we all know that
Harry wouldn't let a little thing like facts get in the way of his
thoughts.

===============

Be careful about what you want to believe is important. Do you find this
interesting?

"Both groups had about the same number of sexually transmitted diseases
as
well and had, on average, three sexual partners. Teens who took the
pledge
had 0.1 fewer partners, on average."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Taking a pledge and actually abstaining is two completely different
things.
Here, see for yourself, and show your buddy Harry.
http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people
time to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of
the articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains,
so we probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains
comprised only about 10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are
not at all indicative of the population as a whole.
I have no idea of the validity of the data on this web site. The 42%
figure for 2007 seems high to me. I cannot recall anyone that I've had a
personal relationship ever mentioning they were "born again".


Who knows...my 10% figure came from a few articles I read about McCain
trying to win back evangelicals. In any case, targeting that group for a sex
study is a bit goofy, unless the researchers make it absolutely clear that
the numbers came from a fringe group. May as well be asking the Taliban
about their attitudes toward women in the workplace.


Outside of coasts cities, those cities on the east coast and west coast,
I believe that the average person's ideas will be more in line with what
you call the "born agains", than the ideas of those in the coast cities.
I have not checked the population statistic recently but I believe the
people in the coast cities are still in the minority.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"Keith nuttle" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 9:30 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 8:35 am, boater wrote:





Keith nuttle wrote:
Boater wrote:
Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds
Teenagers Who Make Such Promises Are Just as Likely to Have Sex,
and
Less Likely to Use Protection, the Data Indicate
By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, December 29, 2008; A02
Teenagers who pledge to remain virgins until marriage are just as
likely to have premarital sex as those who do not promise
abstinence
and are significantly less likely to use condoms and other forms
of
birth control when they do, according to a study released today.
The new analysis of data from a large federal survey found that
more
than half of youths became sexually active before marriage
regardless
of whether they had taken a "virginity pledge," but that the
percentage who took precautions against pregnancy or sexually
transmitted diseases was 10 points lower for pledgers than for
non-pledgers.
"Taking a pledge doesn't seem to make any difference at all in any
sexual behavior," said Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, whose report appears in the
January issue of the journal Pediatrics. "But it does seem to make
a
difference in condom use and other forms of birth control that is
quite striking."
The study is the latest in a series that have raised questions
about
programs that focus on encouraging abstinence until marriage,
including those that specifically ask students to publicly declare
their intention to remain virgins. The new analysis, however, goes
beyond earlier analyses by focusing on teens who had similar
values
about sex and other issues before they took a virginity pledge.
"Previous studies would compare a mixture of apples and oranges,"
Rosenbaum said. "I tried to pull out the apples and compare only
the
apples to other apples."
The findings are reigniting the debate about the effectiveness of
abstinence-focused sexual education just as Congress and the new
Obama administration are about to reconsider the more than $176
million in annual funding for such programs.
"This study again raises the issue of why the federal government
is
continuing to invest in abstinence-only programs," said Sarah
Brown
of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy.
"What have we gained if we only encourage young people to delay
sex
until they are older, but then when they do become sexually
active --
and most do well before marriage -- they don't protect themselves
or
their partners?"
James Wagoner of the advocacy group Advocates for Youth agreed:
"The
Democratic Congress needs to get its head out of the sand and get
real about sex education in America."
Proponents of such programs, however, dismissed the study as
flawed
and argued that programs that focus on abstinence go much further
than simply asking youths to make a one-time promise to remain
virgins.
"It is remarkable that an author who employs rigorous research
methodology would then compromise those standards by making wild,
ideologically tainted and inaccurate analysis regarding the
content
of abstinence education programs," said Valerie Huber of the
National
Abstinence Education Association.
Rosenbaum analyzed data collected by the federal government's
National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, which gathered
detailed information from a representative sample of about 11,000
students in grades seven through 12 in 1995, 1996 and 2001.
Although researchers have analyzed data from that survey before to
examine abstinence education programs, the new study is the first
to
use a more stringent method to account for other factors that
could
influence the teens' behavior, such as their attitudes about sex
before they took the pledge.
Rosenbaum focused on about 3,400 students who had not had sex or
taken a virginity pledge in 1995. She compared 289 students who
were
17 years old on average in 1996, when they took a virginity
pledge,
with 645 who did not take a pledge but were otherwise similar. She
based that judgment on about 100 variables, including their
attitudes
and their parents' attitudes about sex and their perception of
their
friends' attitudes about sex and birth control.
"This study came about because somebody who decides to take a
virginity pledge tends to be different from the average American
teenager. The pledgers tend to be more religious. They tend to be
more conservative. They tend to be less positive about sex. There
are
some striking differences," Rosenbaum said. "So comparing pledgers
to
all non-pledgers doesn't make a lot of sense."
By 2001, Rosenbaum found, 82 percent of those who had taken a
pledge
had retracted their promises, and there was no significant
difference
in the proportion of students in both groups who had engaged in
any
type of sexual activity, including giving or receiving oral sex,
vaginal intercourse, the age at which they first had sex, or their
number of sexual partners. More than half of both groups had
engaged
in various types of sexual activity, had an average of about three
sexual partners and had had sex for the first time by age 21 even
if
they were unmarried.
"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge,"
Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be
motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence
has to come from an individual conviction rather than
participating
in a program."
While there was no difference in the rate of sexually transmitted
diseases in the two groups, the percentage of students who
reported
condom use was about 10 points lower for those who had taken the
pledge, and they were about 6 percentage points less likely to use
any form of contraception. For example, about 24 percent of those
who
had taken a pledge said they always used a condom, compared with
about 34 percent of those who had not.
Rosenbaum attributed the difference to what youths learn about
condoms in abstinence-focused programs.
"There's been a lot of work that has found that teenagers who take
part in abstinence-only education have more negative views about
condoms," she said. "They tend not to give accurate information
about
condoms and birth control."
But Huber disputed that charge.
"Abstinence education programs provide accurate information on the
level of protection offered through the typical use of condoms and
contraception," she said. "Students understand that while condoms
may
reduce the risk of infection and/or pregnancy, they do not remove
the
risk."
snerk
I wonder if the governor of Alaska has talked about condoms with
her
younger daughter.
As usual spun to make it appear the pledges don't work. Based on
other
reports of the same study those who take the pledge are less likely
to
have sex until average age of 21 compared to about age 17 for the
average American teen. To Quot CNN:
I believe the main point of the pledges was to prevent teenage
pregnancy, not stop sexual activity. I believe 21 is about the age
of
the first marriage, so those who take the pledge are probably
waiting
for their partner of their first marriage.
Trying to prevent teen pregnancies and the spread of STDs is a
worthwhile activity. Trying to put a stop to teen sexuality is an
exercise in futility and stupidity.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
There's many studies to the contrary. Of course, we all know that
Harry wouldn't let a little thing like facts get in the way of his
thoughts.

===============

Be careful about what you want to believe is important. Do you find
this
interesting?

"Both groups had about the same number of sexually transmitted
diseases as
well and had, on average, three sexual partners. Teens who took the
pledge
had 0.1 fewer partners, on average."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Taking a pledge and actually abstaining is two completely different
things.
Here, see for yourself, and show your buddy Harry.
http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even
when people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in
unsafe ways. So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully
gives people time to absorb more information, it doesn't always work
that way. One of the articles said that the survey in question was
focused on born-agains, so we probably shouldn't even be discussing
that survey, since it's statistically insignificant. Last numbers I saw
said that born-agains comprised only about 10% of the U.S. population,
and their attitudes are not at all indicative of the population as a
whole.
I have no idea of the validity of the data on this web site. The 42%
figure for 2007 seems high to me. I cannot recall anyone that I've had
a personal relationship ever mentioning they were "born again".


Who knows...my 10% figure came from a few articles I read about McCain
trying to win back evangelicals. In any case, targeting that group for a
sex study is a bit goofy, unless the researchers make it absolutely clear
that the numbers came from a fringe group. May as well be asking the
Taliban about their attitudes toward women in the workplace.
Outside of coasts cities, those cities on the east coast and west coast, I
believe that the average person's ideas will be more in line with what you
call the "born agains", than the ideas of those in the coast cities. I
have not checked the population statistic recently but I believe the
people in the coast cities are still in the minority.

- I'll admit that my opinion about born-agains are based on two close
evangelist acquaintances, both of whose relationships are being destroyed by
their bizarre sexual upbringing. Not abusive. Bizarre, church-wrecked
nonsense which makes them feel guilty about anything more pleasurable than a
fresh bag of potato chips. This is just two people, but that's all I have to
go on, other than hearsay.

- Coast cities: In the minority as far as sheer numbers? Or....what?

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 13:21:24 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:12:55 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even
when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe
ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people
time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains, so
we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised only
about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all
indicative
of
the population as a whole.


You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if they wait longer?
Or,
in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

In DC, for 2005:

The teenage pregnancy rate for 2005 was 64.4 pregnancies per 1,000 women
aged 15-19 years,

http://tinyurl.com/75nboa

Note that this number is based on the 'reported' outcomes, live births,
*reported* fetal deaths, and *reported* induced abortions. In other
words,
the problem is very under stated.

Of course, this will allow for an increase in the welfare rolls, so from
a
liberal's perspective, it may be a good thing.


You never saw me claim that waiting was not a good idea.

You may be wishing so hard that you saw me make that claim, that you have
actually turned it into reality in your own mind. But, I never made that
claim.

You will now disagree. You know the drill. Go find something typed by me,
which supports your claim.


I asked you this: " You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if
they wait longer? Or, in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem
either?

Unlike some, I do not put words in people's mouths. I think it's
dishonest,
don't you?


I made no such claim. That's your answer. You will now try and say that my
earlier comments IMPLIED that I think waiting is not a good idea.

Good luck with that.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 13:21:24 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:12:55 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people
time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains, so
we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised only
about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all indicative
of
the population as a whole.


You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if they wait longer? Or,
in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

In DC, for 2005:

The teenage pregnancy rate for 2005 was 64.4 pregnancies per 1,000 women
aged 15-19 years,

http://tinyurl.com/75nboa

Note that this number is based on the 'reported' outcomes, live births,
*reported* fetal deaths, and *reported* induced abortions. In other words,
the problem is very under stated.

Of course, this will allow for an increase in the welfare rolls, so from a
liberal's perspective, it may be a good thing.


You never saw me claim that waiting was not a good idea.

You may be wishing so hard that you saw me make that claim, that you have
actually turned it into reality in your own mind. But, I never made that
claim.

You will now disagree. You know the drill. Go find something typed by me,
which supports your claim.


I asked you this: " You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if
they wait longer? Or, in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

Unlike some, I do not put words in people's mouths. I think it's dishonest,
don't you?

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:10:38 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 13:21:24 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:12:55 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even
when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe
ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people
time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of
the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains,
so
we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised only
about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all
indicative
of
the population as a whole.


You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if they wait longer?
Or,
in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

In DC, for 2005:

The teenage pregnancy rate for 2005 was 64.4 pregnancies per 1,000
women
aged 15-19 years,

http://tinyurl.com/75nboa

Note that this number is based on the 'reported' outcomes, live
births,
*reported* fetal deaths, and *reported* induced abortions. In other
words,
the problem is very under stated.

Of course, this will allow for an increase in the welfare rolls, so
from
a
liberal's perspective, it may be a good thing.


You never saw me claim that waiting was not a good idea.

You may be wishing so hard that you saw me make that claim, that you
have
actually turned it into reality in your own mind. But, I never made that
claim.

You will now disagree. You know the drill. Go find something typed by
me,
which supports your claim.


I asked you this: " You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if
they wait longer? Or, in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem
either?

Unlike some, I do not put words in people's mouths. I think it's
dishonest,
don't you?


I made no such claim. That's your answer. You will now try and say that my
earlier comments IMPLIED that I think waiting is not a good idea.

Good luck with that.


Why would I want to do that? It wouldn't be honest. I think it's dishonest
to put words in someone's mouth, or to *imply* words that weren't said.
Don't you?


John, if you want to ask loaded questions, try it with someone else. If
they're asked by someone more skilled, I might occasionally fall for them.
But you're not that good at it. You torpedoed your own question with choice
of the words you used to ask it.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:10:38 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 13:21:24 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:12:55 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even
when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe
ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people
time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains, so
we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised only
about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all
indicative
of
the population as a whole.


You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if they wait longer?
Or,
in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

In DC, for 2005:

The teenage pregnancy rate for 2005 was 64.4 pregnancies per 1,000 women
aged 15-19 years,

http://tinyurl.com/75nboa

Note that this number is based on the 'reported' outcomes, live births,
*reported* fetal deaths, and *reported* induced abortions. In other
words,
the problem is very under stated.

Of course, this will allow for an increase in the welfare rolls, so from
a
liberal's perspective, it may be a good thing.


You never saw me claim that waiting was not a good idea.

You may be wishing so hard that you saw me make that claim, that you have
actually turned it into reality in your own mind. But, I never made that
claim.

You will now disagree. You know the drill. Go find something typed by me,
which supports your claim.


I asked you this: " You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if
they wait longer? Or, in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem
either?

Unlike some, I do not put words in people's mouths. I think it's
dishonest,
don't you?


I made no such claim. That's your answer. You will now try and say that my
earlier comments IMPLIED that I think waiting is not a good idea.

Good luck with that.


Why would I want to do that? It wouldn't be honest. I think it's dishonest
to put words in someone's mouth, or to *imply* words that weren't said.
Don't you?

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:10:38 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 13:21:24 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:12:55 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even
when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe
ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people
time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of
the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains,
so
we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised only
about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all
indicative
of
the population as a whole.

You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if they wait longer?
Or,
in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

In DC, for 2005:

The teenage pregnancy rate for 2005 was 64.4 pregnancies per 1,000
women
aged 15-19 years,

http://tinyurl.com/75nboa

Note that this number is based on the 'reported' outcomes, live
births,
*reported* fetal deaths, and *reported* induced abortions. In other
words,
the problem is very under stated.

Of course, this will allow for an increase in the welfare rolls, so
from
a
liberal's perspective, it may be a good thing.

You never saw me claim that waiting was not a good idea.

You may be wishing so hard that you saw me make that claim, that you
have
actually turned it into reality in your own mind. But, I never made that
claim.

You will now disagree. You know the drill. Go find something typed by
me,
which supports your claim.

I asked you this: " You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if
they wait longer? Or, in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem
either?

Unlike some, I do not put words in people's mouths. I think it's
dishonest,
don't you?

I made no such claim. That's your answer. You will now try and say that my
earlier comments IMPLIED that I think waiting is not a good idea.

Good luck with that.

Why would I want to do that? It wouldn't be honest. I think it's dishonest
to put words in someone's mouth, or to *imply* words that weren't said.
Don't you?


John, if you want to ask loaded questions, try it with someone else. If
they're asked by someone more skilled, I might occasionally fall for them.
But you're not that good at it. You torpedoed your own question with choice
of the words you used to ask it.



snerk

Herring is a hateful, lying, useless old fart. I'm glad you are making
him spin on the end of your yo-yo string.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:32:21 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:10:38 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 13:21:24 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
om...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:12:55 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even
when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe
ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives people
time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of
the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on born-agains,
so
we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised only
about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all
indicative
of
the population as a whole.


You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if they wait longer?
Or,
in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

In DC, for 2005:

The teenage pregnancy rate for 2005 was 64.4 pregnancies per 1,000
women
aged 15-19 years,

http://tinyurl.com/75nboa

Note that this number is based on the 'reported' outcomes, live
births,
*reported* fetal deaths, and *reported* induced abortions. In other
words,
the problem is very under stated.

Of course, this will allow for an increase in the welfare rolls, so
from
a
liberal's perspective, it may be a good thing.


You never saw me claim that waiting was not a good idea.

You may be wishing so hard that you saw me make that claim, that you
have
actually turned it into reality in your own mind. But, I never made that
claim.

You will now disagree. You know the drill. Go find something typed by
me,
which supports your claim.


I asked you this: " You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if
they wait longer? Or, in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem
either?

Unlike some, I do not put words in people's mouths. I think it's
dishonest,
don't you?


I made no such claim. That's your answer. You will now try and say that my
earlier comments IMPLIED that I think waiting is not a good idea.

Good luck with that.


Why would I want to do that? It wouldn't be honest. I think it's dishonest
to put words in someone's mouth, or to *imply* words that weren't said.
Don't you?


John, if you want to ask loaded questions, try it with someone else. If
they're asked by someone more skilled, I might occasionally fall for them.
But you're not that good at it. You torpedoed your own question with choice
of the words you used to ask it.


Actually, I was being a little less subtle than I could have.

But you got the point.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:32:21 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:10:38 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 13:21:24 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
news:ceavl4p5bmtb05d1rdbnso4ioagfdghrbr@4ax. com...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:12:55 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that even
when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in unsafe
ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives
people
time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One of
the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on
born-agains,
so
we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised
only
about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all
indicative
of
the population as a whole.


You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if they wait
longer?
Or,
in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

In DC, for 2005:

The teenage pregnancy rate for 2005 was 64.4 pregnancies per 1,000
women
aged 15-19 years,

http://tinyurl.com/75nboa

Note that this number is based on the 'reported' outcomes, live
births,
*reported* fetal deaths, and *reported* induced abortions. In other
words,
the problem is very under stated.

Of course, this will allow for an increase in the welfare rolls, so
from
a
liberal's perspective, it may be a good thing.


You never saw me claim that waiting was not a good idea.

You may be wishing so hard that you saw me make that claim, that you
have
actually turned it into reality in your own mind. But, I never made
that
claim.

You will now disagree. You know the drill. Go find something typed by
me,
which supports your claim.


I asked you this: " You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates
if
they wait longer? Or, in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem
either?

Unlike some, I do not put words in people's mouths. I think it's
dishonest,
don't you?


I made no such claim. That's your answer. You will now try and say that
my
earlier comments IMPLIED that I think waiting is not a good idea.

Good luck with that.


Why would I want to do that? It wouldn't be honest. I think it's
dishonest
to put words in someone's mouth, or to *imply* words that weren't said.
Don't you?


John, if you want to ask loaded questions, try it with someone else. If
they're asked by someone more skilled, I might occasionally fall for them.
But you're not that good at it. You torpedoed your own question with
choice
of the words you used to ask it.


Actually, I was being a little less subtle than I could have.

But you got the point.


The point was that there was no valid reason for asking the question. If you
disagree, explain why you asked the question.

Pledges of Abstinence Ineffective
 

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 18:21:33 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:32:21 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:10:38 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
news:jkhvl4l2c866mss9n3g83o0ia253kh6vqc@4ax. com...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 13:21:24 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
news:ceavl4p5bmtb05d1rdbnso4ioagfdghrbr@4a x.com...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:12:55 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


http://www.etr.org/recapp/stats/index.htm
http://ncfy.acf.hhs.gov/publications/abstats.htm

==========

The conclusion I drew from the "Both groups..." clause was that
even
when
people waited longer to have sex, they eventually had sex in
unsafe
ways.
So, although waiting might seem good because it hopefully gives
people
time
to absorb more information, it doesn't always work that way. One
of
the
articles said that the survey in question was focused on
born-agains,
so
we
probably shouldn't even be discussing that survey, since it's
statistically
insignificant. Last numbers I saw said that born-agains comprised
only
about
10% of the U.S. population, and their attitudes are not at all
indicative
of
the population as a whole.


You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy rates if they wait
longer?
Or,
in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem either?

In DC, for 2005:

The teenage pregnancy rate for 2005 was 64.4 pregnancies per 1,000
women
aged 15-19 years,

http://tinyurl.com/75nboa

Note that this number is based on the 'reported' outcomes, live
births,
*reported* fetal deaths, and *reported* induced abortions. In
other
words,
the problem is very under stated.

Of course, this will allow for an increase in the welfare rolls,
so
from
a
liberal's perspective, it may be a good thing.


You never saw me claim that waiting was not a good idea.

You may be wishing so hard that you saw me make that claim, that you
have
actually turned it into reality in your own mind. But, I never made
that
claim.

You will now disagree. You know the drill. Go find something typed
by
me,
which supports your claim.


I asked you this: " You reckon it might help the teen pregnancy
rates
if
they wait longer? Or, in the liberal mindset, is that not a problem
either?

Unlike some, I do not put words in people's mouths. I think it's
dishonest,
don't you?


I made no such claim. That's your answer. You will now try and say
that
my
earlier comments IMPLIED that I think waiting is not a good idea.

Good luck with that.


Why would I want to do that? It wouldn't be honest. I think it's
dishonest
to put words in someone's mouth, or to *imply* words that weren't
said.
Don't you?


John, if you want to ask loaded questions, try it with someone else. If
they're asked by someone more skilled, I might occasionally fall for
them.
But you're not that good at it. You torpedoed your own question with
choice
of the words you used to ask it.


Actually, I was being a little less subtle than I could have.

But you got the point.


The point was that there was no valid reason for asking the question. If
you
disagree, explain why you asked the question.


Which question?


Step backward 3-4 messages (of yours) to where it says (typed by you) "I
asked you this..."