malibu response question
 

Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?

I returned it to the dealer. Multiple times.
I spoke with the factory... twice.

They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.

I asked for another "new boat" that didn't leak. They said no way. I
offered to trade it in and pay the difference if they would help me work
through the dealer. They again said no, "it's a little problem".

Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......

For Sale, one Malibu Response LX with 10 hrs. Leaks like a sieve but
Malibu says don't worry! I'll even take a loss on this one (hell, I've
owned it since last August and haven't been able to ski behind it since
then! That alone is a loss.) Make me an offer, I'm not kidding. I
want a quality boat again.

Comments welcome.

Joe --
(pictures available upon request, it sure looks pretty)

malibu response question
 

I agree. Why haven't they fixed it? The dealer even wanted me to take it home
and use it for the holiday weekend even though the water comes in at a faster
rate than the bilge pump can handle!!! Incompetence? 100%

Another question? Why would it be a loss for them if I agreed to "trade it in"
and take the loss myself? I thought that was more than nice of me but they
don't even want the damn thing back! Why? Probably still couldn't sell it. Do
they know something I don't? Was this a bigger problem than I thought? Anyone
else with similar problems?

Tony Thomas wrote:

The real question is why have they not fixed it. Should be a simple fix for
a local fiberglass shop that the factory will pay thru the dealer. What is
the factory saying about the repair and when.

It is true that most manufacturers will not replace the boat. The warrenty
is for repair or replace at their descretion. Too much of a loss to replace
since they would then have to sell this boat as a used one.

Tony

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?

I returned it to the dealer. Multiple times.
I spoke with the factory... twice.

They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.

I asked for another "new boat" that didn't leak. They said no way. I
offered to trade it in and pay the difference if they would help me work
through the dealer. They again said no, "it's a little problem".

Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......

For Sale, one Malibu Response LX with 10 hrs. Leaks like a sieve but
Malibu says don't worry! I'll even take a loss on this one (hell, I've
owned it since last August and haven't been able to ski behind it since
then! That alone is a loss.) Make me an offer, I'm not kidding. I
want a quality boat again.

Comments welcome.

Joe --
(pictures available upon request, it sure looks pretty)

malibu response question
 

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?
They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.
Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......


This was a common problem with Malibu's. The hydo damping box leaked.
If your boat is new, I'm surprised that you are having this problem.
Its an easy fix if the dealer has a clue. They have to find what part
of the box is leakings, grind out the old Plexus, and replace with new.
I've never seen one that leaked so bad that the bilgh pump even came
on. Guy Coward is a good guy, and should take care of your problem for
you. This is a dealer issue to get fixed. I'd be screaming at the
dealer, or talking to Malibu to have the dealer get it fixed NOW. What
dealer did you buy it from?

Follow up
 

Well, thanks to the web it would appear I have a much better understanding
of the problem now. Various people have responded with information
regarding this on-going problem from Malibu.

First, I need to sincerely appologize to the local dealer. I feel bad that
he is caught in the middle. If I were him, I would investigate a new
product line (I'm sure he will if he hasn't already).

Next, I need the boat fixed. Possibly so that I may sell it and go back to
another, more reputable, company that takes concerns with customer
satisfaction seriously.

Third, I need to be sure that I share my story with as many skiers as
possible. Maybe I am just one person who is insignificant in the eyes of
Malibu but I still represent a group (competitive skiers) who made Malibu
possible. Perhaps the should reflect more on where they came from.

-Rant ON-

Additionally, maybe they should spend more time fixing problems before they
reach the consumer rather than putting a band-aid on them after the fact.
It doesn't seem like a strong corporate philosophy to me. Maybe the
surf-boys in Calif. just got a little too much sun to make a good decision.
But hey, if it makes them money, who cares, right?

- Rant OFF -

Thanks to everyone out there with something to add. You have helped. I am
done wasting bandwidth now. On to more productive things!

--

"J.W. Frank" wrote:

Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?

I returned it to the dealer. Multiple times.
I spoke with the factory... twice.

They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.

I asked for another "new boat" that didn't leak. They said no way. I
offered to trade it in and pay the difference if they would help me work
through the dealer. They again said no, "it's a little problem".

Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......

For Sale, one Malibu Response LX with 10 hrs. Leaks like a sieve but
Malibu says don't worry! I'll even take a loss on this one (hell, I've
owned it since last August and haven't been able to ski behind it since
then! That alone is a loss.) Make me an offer, I'm not kidding. I
want a quality boat again.

Comments welcome.

Joe --
(pictures available upon request, it sure looks pretty)

Follow up
 

Since they introduced the Hydrophonic Damping System back in 1996 it has
been an issue. Tom may point out it is statistically unimportant (like that
helps you), but he
and most other people I know including Malibu owners think the whole concept
is flawed. MC has some gel like substance laminated into the hull to reduce
noise and CC laminates in ISO Damp to reduce noise. Malibu decided to use
water and make their quieter mufflers an optional upgrade. There are very
different design imperatives at work here.

Many of us understand Malibu's position. Agreeing with it is another story.
You are probably very right that CC would have treated you differently as MC
probably would have as well. I know a number of people who have had boats
replaced for a LOT less than this. I know two that not only got a
replacement, but an upgrade over a cosmetic issue.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
Well, thanks to the web it would appear I have a much better understanding
of the problem now. Various people have responded with information
regarding this on-going problem from Malibu.

First, I need to sincerely appologize to the local dealer. I feel bad
that
he is caught in the middle. If I were him, I would investigate a new
product line (I'm sure he will if he hasn't already).

Next, I need the boat fixed. Possibly so that I may sell it and go back
to
another, more reputable, company that takes concerns with customer
satisfaction seriously.

Third, I need to be sure that I share my story with as many skiers as
possible. Maybe I am just one person who is insignificant in the eyes of
Malibu but I still represent a group (competitive skiers) who made Malibu
possible. Perhaps the should reflect more on where they came from.

-Rant ON-

Additionally, maybe they should spend more time fixing problems before
they
reach the consumer rather than putting a band-aid on them after the fact.
It doesn't seem like a strong corporate philosophy to me. Maybe the
surf-boys in Calif. just got a little too much sun to make a good
decision.
But hey, if it makes them money, who cares, right?

- Rant OFF -

Thanks to everyone out there with something to add. You have helped. I
am
done wasting bandwidth now. On to more productive things!

--

"J.W. Frank" wrote:

Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?

I returned it to the dealer. Multiple times.
I spoke with the factory... twice.

They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.

I asked for another "new boat" that didn't leak. They said no way. I
offered to trade it in and pay the difference if they would help me work
through the dealer. They again said no, "it's a little problem".

Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......

For Sale, one Malibu Response LX with 10 hrs. Leaks like a sieve but
Malibu says don't worry! I'll even take a loss on this one (hell, I've
owned it since last August and haven't been able to ski behind it since
then! That alone is a loss.) Make me an offer, I'm not kidding. I
want a quality boat again.

Comments welcome.

Joe --
(pictures available upon request, it sure looks pretty)

Follow up
 

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message ...
Comments welcome.

Joe --
(pictures available upon request, it sure looks pretty)


Malibus are know for leaking out of the HDS system. It's the box you
are referring to. Some boats will never have a problem while other
boats leak badly (like yours). However, M should step up and fix the
problem. They are not going to replace the entire boat however, nor
would I expect them to. That's like saying my car has a brake problem
so I want the manufacture to give me a new one.

M is aware of the problems and truthfully I don't know why they don't
just loose the HDS box. It is suppose to reduce the shaft vibrations,
but in reality, every other manufacture does just fine without it. It
would certainly cause fewer headaches for owners like you.

Yes is is a repairable condition. Yes it happens with some frequency.
Yes, some minor fiberglass work should fix the problem for good.
Yes, you should be happy with the boat again after the repair.
However, if M repair isn't good enough for you and you insist on
selling the boat and taking a bath - let me know, I'd be more than
happy to sell my MC and pick up a M for a great price. Maybe we can
just swap boats - its a 93 Mastercraft Prostar 190. You can e-mail me
at (remove nospam). :)

Seriously, I'm sorry that you have had this problem. No one likes
having issues with their new boat. But I have to say you need take a
step back and allow M to do their job. I agree with Guy - I think
most people are going to understand M position and dismiss you as some
nit picking owner making outrageous demands (demanding a new boat over
a minor issue). Now if M doesn't step up to the plate and get the job
fixed in a reasonable amount of time or to your satisfaction, then you
have reason to rant and rave. Until then, let it ride and see how
things work out.

Follow up
 

I took a couple Responses out and almost didn't buy a ski boat at all.
All motor, noisy as hell and low quality. One was 2 years old and was
completely falling apart.

Then I looked at a used MC and said yes, now this is solid boat.
I wanted a 20 foot bowrider so I ended up with a Tige.
Not quite as solid as a MC but close and I liked the features (TAPS is a big
plus) and price.

I won't really know if I made the right choice for many years to come but I
knew enough to stay away from malibu (for my needs).
Malibu may have great wake but it didn't pass the wife test at all.

Response "bow rider" (i.e. the hole the cut in the closed bow) is a bad joke
too.

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
Well, thanks to the web it would appear I have a much better understanding
of the problem now. Various people have responded with information
regarding this on-going problem from Malibu.

First, I need to sincerely appologize to the local dealer. I feel bad
that
he is caught in the middle. If I were him, I would investigate a new
product line (I'm sure he will if he hasn't already).

Next, I need the boat fixed. Possibly so that I may sell it and go back
to
another, more reputable, company that takes concerns with customer
satisfaction seriously.

Third, I need to be sure that I share my story with as many skiers as
possible. Maybe I am just one person who is insignificant in the eyes of
Malibu but I still represent a group (competitive skiers) who made Malibu
possible. Perhaps the should reflect more on where they came from.

-Rant ON-

Additionally, maybe they should spend more time fixing problems before
they
reach the consumer rather than putting a band-aid on them after the fact.
It doesn't seem like a strong corporate philosophy to me. Maybe the
surf-boys in Calif. just got a little too much sun to make a good
decision.
But hey, if it makes them money, who cares, right?

- Rant OFF -

Thanks to everyone out there with something to add. You have helped. I
am
done wasting bandwidth now. On to more productive things!

--

"J.W. Frank" wrote:

Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?

I returned it to the dealer. Multiple times.
I spoke with the factory... twice.

They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.

I asked for another "new boat" that didn't leak. They said no way. I
offered to trade it in and pay the difference if they would help me work
through the dealer. They again said no, "it's a little problem".

Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......

For Sale, one Malibu Response LX with 10 hrs. Leaks like a sieve but
Malibu says don't worry! I'll even take a loss on this one (hell, I've
owned it since last August and haven't been able to ski behind it since
then! That alone is a loss.) Make me an offer, I'm not kidding. I
want a quality boat again.

Comments welcome.

Joe --
(pictures available upon request, it sure looks pretty)

Follow up
 

"George Mills" wrote in message
...

Then I looked at a used MC and said yes, now this is solid boat.
I wanted a 20 foot bowrider so I ended up with a Tige.
Not quite as solid as a MC but close and I liked the features (TAPS is
a big
plus) and price.


I'm interested in why the TAPS is a big plus for you?

Follow up
 

I know Joe,

He's not one to rant and rave and is very fair when it comes to issues like
this. If he says he has given everyone a fair chance to address the issue
then I believe him.

Regardless as to what perception Guy has of Joe, if he is a nit picker or
not, Joe has a problem with his boat and it is M's and Guy's responsibility
to correct it. It seems to me that even if it is a local dealer issue, that
M should lean on the local dealer. After all M's service is only as good as
their dealer network. I was thinking of getting my MC's 100 hr service done
there but I am thinking twice now.

Joe, Best of luck...don't give up. That is a VERY sharp boat.

--


James D. McCarthy

"BrianS" wrote in message
om...
"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
Comments welcome.

Joe --
(pictures available upon request, it sure looks pretty)


Malibus are know for leaking out of the HDS system. It's the box you
are referring to. Some boats will never have a problem while other
boats leak badly (like yours). However, M should step up and fix the
problem. They are not going to replace the entire boat however, nor
would I expect them to. That's like saying my car has a brake problem
so I want the manufacture to give me a new one.

M is aware of the problems and truthfully I don't know why they don't
just loose the HDS box. It is suppose to reduce the shaft vibrations,
but in reality, every other manufacture does just fine without it. It
would certainly cause fewer headaches for owners like you.

Yes is is a repairable condition. Yes it happens with some frequency.
Yes, some minor fiberglass work should fix the problem for good.
Yes, you should be happy with the boat again after the repair.
However, if M repair isn't good enough for you and you insist on
selling the boat and taking a bath - let me know, I'd be more than
happy to sell my MC and pick up a M for a great price. Maybe we can
just swap boats - its a 93 Mastercraft Prostar 190. You can e-mail me
at (remove nospam). :)

Seriously, I'm sorry that you have had this problem. No one likes
having issues with their new boat. But I have to say you need take a
step back and allow M to do their job. I agree with Guy - I think
most people are going to understand M position and dismiss you as some
nit picking owner making outrageous demands (demanding a new boat over
a minor issue). Now if M doesn't step up to the plate and get the job
fixed in a reasonable amount of time or to your satisfaction, then you
have reason to rant and rave. Until then, let it ride and see how
things work out.

Follow up
 

No, it's not another issue, it is THE issue. I will have my boat fixed
one way or another (another dealer for M has stepped up to the plate), and I
will probably get rid of it. The issue is that I should never have had this
problem in the first place. You yourself admit that:

"I agree that it should be fixed there from the get go, but thats an
other thread that has been beat here on RSW years ago."

That's the point, and it should continue to be beaten until M changes their
behavior or stops making defective boats. I wish I had seen the info on
this before buying... I would not have chosen "M". I sincerely hope I can
help one other consumer, then my efforts will have been worthwhile. Maybe I
missed the information or maybe is was between flare-ups when I bought.
Either way, let's let everone who will listen know about it. Maybe "M"
would put a little note about it in their brochure since "everyone will
understand".





Doug Meredith wrote:

"James McCarthy" wrote in message
...
Regardless as to what perception Guy has of Joe, if he is a nit picker
or
not, Joe has a problem with his boat and it is M's and Guy's
responsibility
to correct it. It seems to me that even if it is a local dealer
issue, that
M should lean on the local dealer. After all M's service is only as
good as
their dealer network. I was thinking of getting my MC's 100 hr
service done
there but I am thinking twice now.

Yes, M should lean on the dealer, but it is a dealer issue. Its not a
hard repair, and should have been done in a day or less. I still
haven't heard what the dealer did or didn't do, only bitching about M.
Guy Coward isn't gonna give you a new boat over this, nor is he gonna
send a factory tech to fix it. BUT he should be on the dealer to do it.
FOTM, MC or CC would not give you a new boat if they had a minor repair
as this to fix either. I know for a fact though, that CC will leanon
the dealer to get something fixed. WHy M hasn't got this fixed at the
factory is a totally different issue, which has no bearing on this one.
I agree that it should be fixed there from the get go, but thats an
other thread that has been beat here on RSW years ago.

Follow up
 

"Doug Meredith" wrote in message
...

"George Mills" wrote in message
...

Then I looked at a used MC and said yes, now this is solid boat.
I wanted a 20 foot bowrider so I ended up with a Tige.
Not quite as solid as a MC but close and I liked the features (TAPS is
a big
plus) and price.


I'm interested in why the TAPS is a big plus for you?


Wouldn't you agree this subject has also been beat to death.

One side says a properly designed boat doesn't need TAPS and that a hydrolic
trim plate is nothing novel since Supra has had it as an option for many
many years. Charlie Pigeon came up with a wonderful gimmick and sold the
heck out of it. It is also something a sales guy can demonstrate even if it
is questionable what he is really demonstrating.

The other side says that they love to adjust the boat's wake characteristics
and that they think it is a benefit.

Who cares? I have my opinions and voted with my wallet to get a CC.
Everyone has the freedom to do that, and you can't save the world from
making (what is in your mind) a poor decision.

Follow up
 

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...

Jim , thanks for the comment. BTW, don't go near that dealer.... I
was just
informed that Malibu is discontinuing them and it is with good reason.
I'll
fill you in on all the other details another time.


Okay, so the rest of the story is finally coming out, that the dealer is
poor. I'm glad you found another dealer to do the repair. I was gonna
tell you to call New England Flighcraft, but they are a long way from
you. Hope you found one closer.

Follow up
 

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
No, it's not another issue, it is THE issue. I will have my boat
fixed
one way or another (another dealer for M has stepped up to the plate),
and I
will probably get rid of it. The issue is that I should never have
had this
problem in the first place. You yourself admit that:

Yes, I do agree with that. Selling the boat because of it is a knee
jerk reaction, IMHO. Unless you want to take a major money hit.

That's the point, and it should continue to be beaten until M changes
their
behavior or stops making defective boats.

I'm not going to try and defend M, but they do not make defective boats.
From year to year its a toss up who is the largest, M or MC. So 3500
boat sales a year means they are doing something right. However, in your
other post, you talk about GM having a problem, and having a recall.
True, BUT GM doesn't take the car back, and they don't sent a factory
tech out, and they don't take customer calls. Their DEALERS fix the
problem and off you go. That is just what Malibu is doing. The DEALER
is supposed to fix the problem. Again, as you stated, your dealer is no
longer going to be a M dealer. There is a good reason for this, as he
has not fixed your boat as he should have.


I wish I had seen the info on
this before buying... I would not have chosen "M". I sincerely hope I
can
help one other consumer, then my efforts will have been worthwhile.
Maybe I
missed the information or maybe is was between flare-ups when I
bought.
Either way, let's let everone who will listen know about it. Maybe
"M"
would put a little note about it in their brochure since "everyone
will
understand".


There is no reason in the world to not buy a Malibu boat. All of the
big 3, CC, MC, and M make good boats. You will never go wrong buying
any of them. Each of us that has bought their products had his or her
own reasons for buying that product.

BTY, you have never stated what happened when youtook your boat to the
dealer. What did or didn't he do? From your vague statements, this
sure sounds a lot like a dealer screw up of a repair, but you haven't
told us anything about that in between your rants about Malibu.

Follow up
 

"Doug Meredith" wrote in message
...

"Mark Kovalcson" wrote in message
...
I'm interested in why the TAPS is a big plus for you?


Wouldn't you agree this subject has also been beat to death.
Who cares? I have my opinions and voted with my wallet to get a CC.
Everyone has the freedom to do that, and you can't save the world from
making (what is in your mind) a poor decision.


WhenI had my Nautique, I voted with my wallet too. But in this post, I
didn't say that he made a poor decision, I just asked why he made it.


If you read my post closely you would have seen that I didn't say that
either. I mentioned that different people can try to save the world from
(what is in their mind) a poor decision. In other words many of us think we
have it all figured out know a good decision from a poor one. Thinking we
know the difference between a good decision and a bad one and then trying to
save the world from making a horrible mistake is a trap we get caught in.
Giving good advice is one thing. Arguing incessantly is another.

malibu response question
 

dealer/manufacturer issue.
At least one manufacturer seems to do it "top down".
I received a fedex overnight package describing the problem and explaining
that parts were in short supply due to... list of items; need to replace
parts on boats still in production, new boats in distributor and dealer
stock, etc.
The next day I received a mail from my dealer to say that the parts for
my boat would be in "shortly", please be patient, etc.
Two days after that another message from the dealer saying my parts were
in and they would be happy (note that, "happy") to schedule the repair
at my earliest convenience, more apologies, etc.
The next day another message from the manufacturer, apologies for the delay,
etc.
About a week after the repair a follow-up from the manufacturer asking if the
repair
was to my satisfaction.

The manufacturer has the option to drive repairs and retrofits for design
and manufacturing problems - or to let customers drive it "bottom up".
In the short term it might be cheaper to only repair what has to be repaired
and to only do it for the customers that insist on having the repair.
Denial may be a useful tool for saving the warranty budget, in the short term.
Support costs can be viewed as an investment in repeat business and the goal
of staying in business for the long term. BTW, Chryco halved their warranty
expense last year - supposedly due to improved product quality.

From what little I know about this I regard it as a design problem,
but I think that way (-: i.e. if it can't be produced simply and consistently
then it wasn't designed for manufacturability (horrid word, but production
engineers use it a lot).

\R



"J.W. Frank" wrote:

1 - The Dealer's name is "Sun and Snow" in Utica NY. There seems to be a
whole seperate dealer/manufacturer issue here that needs to be addressed by
someone other than myself (i.e. Malibu).

2 - Thanks for the confirmation that someone other than myself might have
had this problem. It seems like a rediculous design, especially for a
northern climate. It would seem that if any moisture remains in this area
during off season strorage, our cold winter temperatures might make it worse
(trust me, it was much worse this spring).

3 - Guy may be a real nice guy (pun intended) but that is not helping my
problem. I am completely disgusted with this problem and how it was handled
from the local level on up. Like I said, I was even willing to foot the
bill to give Malibu one more shot but they wouldn't even work with me.
Malibu should take customer satisfaction more seriously. Additionally,
maybe they should consider competing with someone like Bayliner and forget
about the competition ski boat area.

4 - Have they changed the design on this "common problem"? The idea is
sound but the implementation sucks. How about a closed system that is oil
filled or something? Then it wouldn't leak (or the environmental people
would be all over them worse than I am!).

5 - Truth of the matter... I want my Mastercraft back. It was a quality
product from a quality company.

--

Doug Meredith wrote:

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?
They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.
Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......

This was a common problem with Malibu's. The hydo damping box leaked.
If your boat is new, I'm surprised that you are having this problem.
Its an easy fix if the dealer has a clue. They have to find what part
of the box is leakings, grind out the old Plexus, and replace with new.
I've never seen one that leaked so bad that the bilgh pump even came
on. Guy Coward is a good guy, and should take care of your problem for
you. This is a dealer issue to get fixed. I'd be screaming at the
dealer, or talking to Malibu to have the dealer get it fixed NOW. What
dealer did you buy it from?

conclusion
 

I started this thread and I intend to finish it. Here are my findings and
comments:

Findings:
Others have experienced the same problem.
This problem goes back through multiple model years.
The offending item (the hydobox) is still present in new models.

Comments:
It is MY belief that the inclusion of the "Hydrobox" introduced a potential
weakness into an otherwise soundly designed boat.
My Malibu is a beatiful boat. The performance and skiability are
fantastic. It contains a hydrobox.
The Malibu company line is that this is a dealer issue, they have NEVER
commented on the design of the hydrobox that I know of.
Many dedicated Malibu dealers seem willing to follow this company line and
even expouse the necessity of it.
Some dedicated Malibu "folks" do not like the free exchange of information
on such subjects.
Many Malibu customers have asked Malibu to look into a design change in this
area (see malibuboatowners.com, the top six things Malibu needs to change).

Final conclusion:
I DEMAND quality in the goods I purchase. This includes everything from the
design of the item, to the manufactuing, to the actually delivery of the
item, to the follow-up care. For that reason, I have always carefully
chosen the items I buy. I alone screwed up on this one. It appears I did
not do my homework well enough and fell victim to the "pretty girl at the
end of the bar". She was fun, but not someone I should have brought home.
In my opinion (don't flame it, it's my opinion and I am entitled to it just
as Malibu is entitled to theirs) this is a serious design flaw that has been
allowed to continue for way too long. I even asked 3 engineers whom I have
worked with to look at it and they too feel the same the way. As such, I
will work to have my boat repaired in the Malibu accepted manner by a
dedicated and caring dealer and I will do my best to find the boat a loving
home. I will then do extensive homework and purchase another brand until I
hear that Malibu has addressed the issue openly and truthfully or until I
retire from watersports Malibu-less. This is not the watersports lesson I
had hoped to share with my daughter but it is still an important, yet
costly, life experience.

Thanks to all that have listened and added your comments. Best of luck and
may you enjoy the warm weather and the calm water. Also, it was never my
intent to rant, rave, demean, argue, infuriate, or otherwise. My sole
purpose was the open exchange of information. Have a nice
day/week/month/year/life!

malibu response question
 

From what little I know about this I regard it as a design problem,
but I think that way (-: i.e. if it can't be produced simply and
consistently
then it wasn't designed for manufacturability (horrid word, but production
engineers use it a lot).

Blind gluing without the ability to inspect guarantees problems like this.

In my mind this is a poor design and the fact Malibu has decided to adopt a
procedure that is known to have problems and hasn't been able to correct it
in over 7 years of production is a bad choice. But they are building to a
lower price point and many people prefer to enjoy the savings inherent in
the processes that Malibu uses. Most boats won't have this problem.

malibu response question
 

"Mark Kovalcson" wrote in message
...
From what little I know about this I regard it as a design problem,
but I think that way (-: i.e. if it can't be produced simply and
consistently
then it wasn't designed for manufacturability (horrid word, but
production
engineers use it a lot).

Blind gluing without the ability to inspect guarantees problems like
this.

In my mind this is a poor design and the fact Malibu has decided to
adopt a
procedure that is known to have problems and hasn't been able to
correct it
in over 7 years of production is a bad choice. But they are building
to a
lower price point and many people prefer to enjoy the savings inherent
in
the processes that Malibu uses. Most boats won't have this problem.


Malibu only has this problem because they insist on using this stupid
hydro box. they have no other problems with construction. The hydro
box IMHO is a dumb thing, and as M has to know its a problem, I have no
idea why they haven't changed it. It seems that once the dealer fixes
it, it stays fixed, so I'd think the factory could do at least as good
a job. Using this hydo box has nothing to do with what price point they
are building to.

malibu response question
 

Malibu only has this problem because they insist on using this stupid
hydro box. they have no other problems with construction. The hydro
box IMHO is a dumb thing, and as M has to know its a problem, I have no
idea why they haven't changed it. It seems that once the dealer fixes
it, it stays fixed, so I'd think the factory could do at least as good
a job. Using this hydo box has nothing to do with what price point they
are building to.

I disagree. CC never would have put something like this into production
because they can't QC it according to their policy of being able to inspect
each part of the boat's construction. This is part of the R&D that they do.
MC wouldn't have let something like this continue either. Malibu being
stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water
instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material, just like they use a
fiberglass only engine and pylon mount without metal reinforcement. Is it
fine most of the time sure is! Do they sometimes have to shim the pylon
because the fiberglass wallers out sure do! Once again, it is good enough
and most people benefit from the cost savings. I could and have gone on and
on and on ad infinitum, but it's past midnight and I just got back from the
lake and I'm wiped out. I also have no more to add about this.

malibu response question
 

"
I disagree. CC never would have put something like this into production
because they can't QC it according to their policy of being able to inspect
each part of the boat's construction. This is part of the R&D that they do.
MC wouldn't have let something like this continue either. Malibu being
stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water
instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material, just like they use a
fiberglass only engine and pylon mount without metal reinforcement. Is it
fine most of the time sure is! Do they sometimes have to shim the pylon
because the fiberglass wallers out sure do! Once again, it is good enough
and most people benefit from the cost savings. I could and have gone on and
on and on ad infinitum, but it's past midnight and I just got back from the
lake and I'm wiped out. I also have no more to add about this.

Mark,

Your blind, anal,CC loyalty disgusts me. Your opinions can't be taken
seriously because you can't be truly subjective, your dislike of M and
your loyalty to CC will not allow you to be hoenstly subjective.
As for yor "price point" line of horse **** goes... save it. CC can
demand their over-inflated prices because of fools like you, but in
reality their boats are grossly over priced.

Glen Reeder

malibu response question
 

Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ?
Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ?


Glen Reeder wrote:

"
I disagree. CC never would have put something like this into production
because they can't QC it according to their policy of being able to inspect
each part of the boat's construction. This is part of the R&D that they do.
MC wouldn't have let something like this continue either. Malibu being
stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water
instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material, just like they use a
fiberglass only engine and pylon mount without metal reinforcement. Is it
fine most of the time sure is! Do they sometimes have to shim the pylon
because the fiberglass wallers out sure do! Once again, it is good enough
and most people benefit from the cost savings. I could and have gone on and
on and on ad infinitum, but it's past midnight and I just got back from the
lake and I'm wiped out. I also have no more to add about this.

Mark,

Your blind, anal,CC loyalty disgusts me. Your opinions can't be taken
seriously because you can't be truly subjective, your dislike of M and
your loyalty to CC will not allow you to be hoenstly subjective.
As for yor "price point" line of horse **** goes... save it. CC can
demand their over-inflated prices because of fools like you, but in
reality their boats are grossly over priced.

Glen Reeder

malibu response question
 

"Mark Kovalcson" wrote in message
...
Malibu only has this problem because they insist on using this
stupid
hydro box. they have no other problems with construction. The
hydro
box IMHO is a dumb thing, and as M has to know its a problem, I have
no
idea why they haven't changed it. It seems that once the dealer
fixes
it, it stays fixed, so I'd think the factory could do at least as
good
a job. Using this hydo box has nothing to do with what price point
they
are building to.

I disagree.


What are you disagreeing on??????? I said the same thing you did.

Malibu being
stupid about this is part of their price point. They are using water
instead of a synthetic sound absorbing material,


I'd bet that the extra glass and such that M uses equals what ever MC
and CC use. not even counting all the warranty claims. I think its
stupid, you think its stupid, but 3500 boat sales a year don't.

Follow up
 

See the Tige site for an explanation. It works great. Basically they shape
the hull so that it wants to ride bow up (i.e. wake board mode). When you
want to slalom you put the trim tab down that basically adds lift in the
rear. This lift is normally present in a slalom hull. In "slalom" mode it
meets tournament specs. Although you can certainly argue it may not have the
perfect slalom wake. It's very versatile and slalom is not everything for
our boat.

I like it for when it's rough water and I want to bring the bow up. Folks
in front stay a lot dryer. I never have it in the slalom position unless
someone is skiing.

"George Mills" wrote in message
...
I took a couple Responses out and almost didn't buy a ski boat at all.
All motor, noisy as hell and low quality. One was 2 years old and was
completely falling apart.

Then I looked at a used MC and said yes, now this is solid boat.
I wanted a 20 foot bowrider so I ended up with a Tige.
Not quite as solid as a MC but close and I liked the features (TAPS is a
big
plus) and price.

I won't really know if I made the right choice for many years to come but
I
knew enough to stay away from malibu (for my needs).
Malibu may have great wake but it didn't pass the wife test at all.

Response "bow rider" (i.e. the hole the cut in the closed bow) is a bad
joke
too.

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
Well, thanks to the web it would appear I have a much better
understanding
of the problem now. Various people have responded with information
regarding this on-going problem from Malibu.

First, I need to sincerely appologize to the local dealer. I feel bad
that
he is caught in the middle. If I were him, I would investigate a new
product line (I'm sure he will if he hasn't already).

Next, I need the boat fixed. Possibly so that I may sell it and go back

to
another, more reputable, company that takes concerns with customer
satisfaction seriously.

Third, I need to be sure that I share my story with as many skiers as
possible. Maybe I am just one person who is insignificant in the eyes
of
Malibu but I still represent a group (competitive skiers) who made
Malibu
possible. Perhaps the should reflect more on where they came from.

-Rant ON-

Additionally, maybe they should spend more time fixing problems before
they
reach the consumer rather than putting a band-aid on them after the
fact.
It doesn't seem like a strong corporate philosophy to me. Maybe the
surf-boys in Calif. just got a little too much sun to make a good
decision.
But hey, if it makes them money, who cares, right?

- Rant OFF -

Thanks to everyone out there with something to add. You have helped. I
am
done wasting bandwidth now. On to more productive things!

--

"J.W. Frank" wrote:

Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?

I returned it to the dealer. Multiple times.
I spoke with the factory... twice.

They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.

I asked for another "new boat" that didn't leak. They said no way. I
offered to trade it in and pay the difference if they would help me
work
through the dealer. They again said no, "it's a little problem".

Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......

For Sale, one Malibu Response LX with 10 hrs. Leaks like a sieve but
Malibu says don't worry! I'll even take a loss on this one (hell,
I've
owned it since last August and haven't been able to ski behind it
since
then! That alone is a loss.) Make me an offer, I'm not kidding. I
want a quality boat again.

Comments welcome.

Joe --
(pictures available upon request, it sure looks pretty)

malibu response question
 

Reg wrote in message ...
Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ?
Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ?

Objective: Not influenced by emotion or personal opinion.
Subjective: Existing within an individuals mind rather than outside.

I guess I am saying Mark is non-objective and very subjective.

Glen

malibu response question
 

"Glen Reeder" wrote in message
om...
Reg wrote in message
...
Y'know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity ?
Which one are you trying to accuse Mark of being incapable of ?

Objective: Not influenced by emotion or personal opinion.
Subjective: Existing within an individuals mind rather than outside.

I guess I am saying Mark is non-objective and very subjective.

Glen, everyone's opinions are dictated by their life experiences and the
only person that you may see as being objective might be yourself. You also
get sensitized to different things over time. I am NOT a wine expert and an
expensive bottle of wine is a complete waste on me. In fact I may not even
like it. Someone else with a sensitized palette will enjoy the subtle
flavors and the aroma. Here is a great example of a situation where I can
in no way see the difference between that expensive wine and a moderately
priced bottle 1/10 the cost. I will never pay for that because it doesn't
make sense to me. In this situation how could I ever remotely hope to give
an objective comparison? I don't notice the differences they aren't even on
my radar screen. I can only tell you what "I" like and what "I" don't like.
Now I'm also going to say that I can see and feel a difference between what
CC does and what Malibu does. I am also an engineer with very strong
feelings about engineering processes and CC's processes are better overall
for the things I consider priorities than the rest in this small market.
They are not perfect. There is still room for improvement. They also don't
do everything better than everyone else. It's all a matter of priorities.

Last weekend I got two beautiful women up on slalom skis and I watched a
very nice fireworks display from my boat. I'm sure my weekend would have
also been very enjoyable if I were in your boat. I really enjoy my boat a
lot and I personally believe it was worth every penny I paid for it. You
obviously feel the same way about your boat and in addition feel I spent too
much for my boat. As long as we both enjoy our boats and they meet our
expectations then it really doesn't matter, does it!

It's kind of weird how competitive this whole thing is. I look in the
parking lot and there are a dozen different manufacturers of car and truck
out there, Junkers to a 600SEL. The top brass own Lexus, BMW, Cadillac,
Mercedes. The CFO owned an old Silverado for a decade that he personally
dropped an engine into and that was worth less than a set of new tires for
it. I'm driving a 9 year old F150 that is paid for like my ski boat. I
consider that an important thing. I'm not likely to replace either of them
any time soon either.

Can I justify a vehicle that depreciates a few dollars for every mile driven
during the first few years? No and I can't afford it either. Is that 600SEL
overpriced? El presidente' doesn't seem to think so. He described it as
obscene in every way. Fair enough. Is it nicer than any car I have ever
owned, absolutely! I'm sure being a millionaire would change my viewpoints
on a number of things but I wouldn't change places with him for anything.

You and I both probably use our boats differently. We definitely have
different life experiences that led to our decisions to purchase our
respective boats. The bottom line is that if we both enjoy what we have, it
doesn't matter.

malibu response question
 

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:16:36 -0400, "Mark Kovalcson"
wrote:

....
I disagree. ...

I see you found your old hard dive.

malibu response question
 

I'm REALLY surprised that Sun and Snow is not taking care of this for you.
They replaced my boat w/o problems and took care of it. I was really
pleased with these guys, but time change I suppose. My gut is that they
really didn't have someone on their staff that could actually do any type of
serious repair to a Malibu, but they did have access to folks from other
sources.

ck



"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
1 - The Dealer's name is "Sun and Snow" in Utica NY. There seems to be a
whole seperate dealer/manufacturer issue here that needs to be addressed
by
someone other than myself (i.e. Malibu).

2 - Thanks for the confirmation that someone other than myself might have
had this problem. It seems like a rediculous design, especially for a
northern climate. It would seem that if any moisture remains in this area
during off season strorage, our cold winter temperatures might make it
worse
(trust me, it was much worse this spring).

3 - Guy may be a real nice guy (pun intended) but that is not helping my
problem. I am completely disgusted with this problem and how it was
handled
from the local level on up. Like I said, I was even willing to foot the
bill to give Malibu one more shot but they wouldn't even work with me.
Malibu should take customer satisfaction more seriously. Additionally,
maybe they should consider competing with someone like Bayliner and forget
about the competition ski boat area.

4 - Have they changed the design on this "common problem"? The idea is
sound but the implementation sucks. How about a closed system that is oil
filled or something? Then it wouldn't leak (or the environmental people
would be all over them worse than I am!).

5 - Truth of the matter... I want my Mastercraft back. It was a quality
product from a quality company.

--

Doug Meredith wrote:

"J.W. Frank" wrote in message
...
Just a quick question: if you recently handed over close to 30k for a
new Malibu Response LX and it keeps taking on excessive water, what
would you do?
They seem to think it is a minor problem (the hydrobox is leaking and
needs fiberglass repair). I think it is a major problem... a
"manufacturing defect", if you will.
Mastercraft and Correct Craft never treated me this way. "Guy" (the
customer service manager) at Malibu told me to go ahead and write
this... that people would understand Malibu's position. I hope he is
right......

This was a common problem with Malibu's. The hydo damping box leaked.
If your boat is new, I'm surprised that you are having this problem.
Its an easy fix if the dealer has a clue. They have to find what part
of the box is leakings, grind out the old Plexus, and replace with new.
I've never seen one that leaked so bad that the bilgh pump even came
on. Guy Coward is a good guy, and should take care of your problem for
you. This is a dealer issue to get fixed. I'd be screaming at the
dealer, or talking to Malibu to have the dealer get it fixed NOW. What
dealer did you buy it from?