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AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications? I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb. Maritime security - AIS ship data At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector. The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so. In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port industries. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
"Pascal" wrote in message
oups.com... This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications? I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb. Maritime security - AIS ship data At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector. According to Dutch law and the law in many other countries, one is either: a) free to receive anything, but one may not use, retransmit or publish received messages to a third party. So according to that law, it would be illegal IMO to publish AIS data on the web. or b) one is not allowed to receive anything else than broadcaast radio, unless one has a licence for a specific radio service (Germany comes to mind, where the posession of scanners is illegal). Meindert |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide
web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so. Ah right, so beyond just the notion of being "shocked, shocked!" to imagine the BROADCASTED data being published, they're asking their member governments to punish it's citizenry for making use of it. Data that's being broadcast on airwaves that belong to the people. Yeesh, talk about myopic. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
: b) one is not allowed to receive anything else than broadcaast radio, unless one has a licence for a specific radio service (Germany comes to mind, where the posession of scanners is illegal). Meindert Wasn't long ago that it was a death sentence in Germany to listen to anyone but the Nazi propaganda machine. How soon they forget.... I know someone who has one of Mr Goebbels radios from the war. Quite channelized, it is... |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
Well, I was thinking that they are afraid of the use of AIS data from
the pirates; note that any Internet user could get the info about the ship. But the pirates could have an cheap AIS receiver in his boat, so it would have the same info, but only locally (say, within 30 nm). Unless the bandidos are spraid over the world and the Big Boss want coordinate the assaults centraly.... Regarding the legality of boadcasting this info, I do not know how it could be prohibited or controled by the any govern. Pascal |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
Indeed, the AIS info could be a big aid in the water poluting from the
ships, since the ships track can be retraced any time after .. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
On 23 Mar 2006 13:31:15 -0800, "Pascal" wrote:
This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications? I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb. The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so. This was scare-mongering to try to stop the free dissemination of data from places like AIS Live, etc. AIS Live went subscription model instead, and is still happily sending data to subscribers via the web - I guess terrorists don't own credit cards either? :-) However, it's all come to light a few days ago: http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/5061 "A new strategy published by the Department for Transport today details the areas where AIS technology could bring significant benefits beyond its primary function of monitoring ship movements, and how the data it provides could open some commercial revenue opportunities to offset its own running costs." with the important bit being "commercial revenue opportunities" - seems the IMO member states are going to start selling the data now they've scared away the private individuals from doing the same thing? Dave |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
Dave Baker wrote:
On 23 Mar 2006 13:31:15 -0800, "Pascal" wrote: This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications? I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb. The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so. This was scare-mongering to try to stop the free dissemination of data from places like AIS Live, etc. AIS Live went subscription model instead, and is still happily sending data to subscribers via the web - I guess terrorists don't own credit cards either? :-) However, it's all come to light a few days ago: http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/5061 "A new strategy published by the Department for Transport today details the areas where AIS technology could bring significant benefits beyond its primary function of monitoring ship movements, and how the data it provides could open some commercial revenue opportunities to offset its own running costs." with the important bit being "commercial revenue opportunities" - seems the IMO member states are going to start selling the data now they've scared away the private individuals from doing the same thing? Dave Can you zig-zag a 300,00-ton tanker? It shouldn't be too difficult, and as for pirates, why don't we just shoot the *******s, an RPG can sink a largish ship very quickly, and it's such fun to watch these assholes struggling in the water. Don't forget to take your binoculars along with the launcher. Another option is for those who are anti-violence just to forget AIS, and leave us all in peace. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:50:03 GMT, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote: Can you zig-zag a 300,00-ton tanker? It shouldn't be too difficult, and as for pirates, why don't we just shoot the *******s, an RPG can sink a largish ship very quickly, and it's such fun to watch these assholes struggling in the water. Don't forget to take your binoculars along with the launcher. Another option is for those who are anti-violence just to forget AIS, and leave us all in peace. I'd say AIS is more on-topic than the above... Dave |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
There is a similar system for aircraft and many free programmes on the web
to receive it. Alec "Dave Baker" wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:50:03 GMT, "Dennis Pogson" wrote: Can you zig-zag a 300,00-ton tanker? It shouldn't be too difficult, and as for pirates, why don't we just shoot the *******s, an RPG can sink a largish ship very quickly, and it's such fun to watch these assholes struggling in the water. Don't forget to take your binoculars along with the launcher. Another option is for those who are anti-violence just to forget AIS, and leave us all in peace. I'd say AIS is more on-topic than the above... Dave |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should think a
little more about where this is really going. AIS is being seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to appear. Damn shame. Steve "Pascal" wrote in message oups.com... This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications? I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb. Maritime security - AIS ship data At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector. The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so. In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port industries. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this?
On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" said:
AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to appear. Damn shame. Steve "Pascal" wrote in message oups.com... This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications? I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb. Maritime security - AIS ship data At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector. The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so. In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port industries. AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy should be. Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and voila you have an instanly updated marine chart (ignoring depth conours etc). I agree with Dennis. Don't blame AIS because there are a few people out there who use the data for their own purposes (terrorists/criminals). Just have the political will to solve that problem. -- Regards, John D Proctor |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"John Proctor" wrote in message news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg... On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" said: AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to appear. Damn shame. Steve "Pascal" wrote in message oups.com... This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications? I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb. Maritime security - AIS ship data At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector. The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so. In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port industries. AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy should be. Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is located? When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater obstructions? Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and voila you have an instanly updated marine chart This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship will know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
On 2006-03-27 01:46:39 +1100, "Ted" said:
"John Proctor" wrote in message news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg... On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" said: AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to appear. Damn shame. Steve "Pascal" wrote in message oups.com... This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications? I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb. Maritime security - AIS ship data At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector. The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so. In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port industries. AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy should be. Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is located? When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater obstructions? Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and voila you have an instanly updated marine chart This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship will know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data. You missed the point I was trying to develop. All the man made features of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS. AIS or its future development will be the basis of a virtual marine charting system. No need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks etc. (A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved? After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud. -- Regards, John D Proctor |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
John Proctor wrote:
You missed the point I was trying to develop. All the man made features of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS. AIS or its future development will be the basis of a virtual marine charting system. No need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks etc. (A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved? After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud. Actually, you wouldn't even need a boat. You could go everywhere on your laptop and save a bundle! Michael Porter Naval Architect / Boatbuilder mporter at mp-marine dot com www.mp-marine.com *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com *** |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"John Proctor" wrote in message news:2006032707325016807-lost@nowhereorg... On 2006-03-27 01:46:39 +1100, "Ted" said: "John Proctor" wrote in message news:2006032608152075249-lost@nowhereorg... On 2006-03-26 02:14:00 +1100, "Steve Lusardi" said: AIS.Wonderful idea! Perhaps all the responders of this thread should think a little more about where this is really going. AIS is being seriously abused by Internet broadcast and other unintended recording of AIS traffic, as well as environmentalists and governments (the real pirates). The net result is everyone will have one because of regulations and no one will turn them on because of the loss of security, risk of fines, unecessary taxation or other abuses soon to appear. Damn shame. Steve "Pascal" wrote in message oups.com... This is posted on the IMO page: what are the concerns ans implications? I have seen many people broadcasting the ships positions on the webb. Maritime security - AIS ship data At its79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector. The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so. In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port industries. AIS is really only just the beginning. What is to prevent bouyage from being AIS literate come to think of it we don't need a physical bouy anymore just an AIS signal with the GPS coordinates of where the bouy should be. Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is located? When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater obstructions? Also could be used for isolated danger marks etc. As these things don't move the beaconing time would be fairly long. Thus AIS could start to form the basis of a virtual navaids system. Add a chart background and voila you have an instanly updated marine chart This is a great idea and the virtual danger mark would only need be maintained with AIS until the charts get updated and then each ship will know where the danger is located just from their GPS map data. You missed the point I was trying to develop. And you seem to be having difficulty comprehending the fact that buoys are completely irrelevant in a GPS navigation environment. Another problem you don't seem to understand is that AIS uses a radio frequency with limited bandwidth. Only a certain number of time domain slots will fit in that bandwidth thus you can't fill it up with fixed points such as obstructions and buoys and hazards. That is what a chart is for. AIS is for moving objects or recently discovered objects that have not yet been placed on the chart. When GPS charting and AIS technology becomes mature the mariner won't even have to update his charts. It will happen automatically whenever he pilots his craft within range of a wireless coastguard internet hot spot where his GPS navigation device automatically collects the updates. All the man made features of a paper chart can be disseminated via AIS. AIS or its future development will be the basis of a virtual marine charting system. No need to maintain physicallity of bouys, danger marks etc. There is no need to even have a virtual buoy. You want to know where the edge of the channel is located not the location of some buoy that may or may not be in the correct location. When the GPS chart becomes the universal standard then all the buoys can be removed from the water and the charts they are simply no longer required. (A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved? Electronic charts will save as much money. After all, I'm not a pilot (aircraft type) but is this not the way aircraft navigation works? Just thinking out loud. Actually there are a lot of pilots who are using GPS to fly from one VOR ground station to the next when it is completely unnecessary. They should just fly direct to the destination they want while avoiding any prohibited or hazardous airspace. -- Regards, John D Proctor |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
When GPS charting and AIS technology becomes mature the
mariner won't even have to update his charts. It will happen automatically whenever he pilots his craft within range of a wireless coastguard internet hot spot where his GPS navigation device automatically collects the updates. And let's hope they actually start discusssing the security risks associated with this idea. When the GPS chart becomes the universal standard then all the buoys can be removed from the water and the charts they are simply no longer required. I sure hope not. Electronic devices fail and radio frequencies can be jammed or interferred with. I'll take a good ol' paper chart and an actual physical marker, thank you. While I agree that electronic charting is *definitely* worth using it's not without issues. (A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved? Electronic charts will save as much money. I doubt it. And when it comes to safety I'm not sure I'd even bother arguing for 'saving'. Penny-wise, pound-foolish, more or less. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Bill Kearney" wrote in message t... When GPS charting and AIS technology becomes mature the mariner won't even have to update his charts. It will happen automatically whenever he pilots his craft within range of a wireless coastguard internet hot spot where his GPS navigation device automatically collects the updates. And let's hope they actually start discusssing the security risks associated with this idea. What security risks would that be? When the GPS chart becomes the universal standard then all the buoys can be removed from the water and the charts they are simply no longer required. I sure hope not. Electronic devices fail and radio frequencies can be jammed or interferred with. Paper maps can be misprinted. They can get destroyed accidentally, and buoys can be moved by storms and collisions. A compass can be damaged and also interfered with by magnetic sources on the ship or in the waters. They too are not 100% reliable. Your fears come from your lack of understanding of the basic principles of navigation. I'll take a good ol' paper chart and an actual physical marker, thank you. Its clear that you are one of the old geezers who thinks its a sin to use anything but compass and paper map. You think this way because thats all you know. While I agree that electronic charting is *definitely* worth using it's not without issues. Again, what issues would that be? Its interesting how vague your language gets when telling the world how much you hate electronic navigation. You don't want to admit that the only problem is that you fear it because you don't understand it. (A brave new world eh?). Think of how much money could be saved? Electronic charts will save as much money. I doubt it. I doubt that you know what you are talking about. And when it comes to safety I'm not sure I'd even bother arguing for 'saving'. Penny-wise, pound-foolish, more or less. You seem to be a rather slow individual. The idea that GPS navigation does not require buoys in any way in the water or on a chart has completely soared over your head. Your mind clearly has not come to grips with that basic fact. Instead you spend this post arguing that buoys should stay for redundancy. This is a perfectly good reason to keep buoys in the water but has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. Considering your inability to think and process written material in this thread, I'm glad I won't be riding on any of your boats. It doesn't sound safe. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
And let's hope they actually start discusssing the security risks
associated with this idea. What security risks would that be? Invalid data being improperly uploaded from an authorized source. I sure hope not. Electronic devices fail and radio frequencies can be jammed or interferred with. Paper maps can be misprinted. They can get destroyed accidentally, and buoys can be moved by storms and collisions. A compass can be damaged and also interfered with by magnetic sources on the ship or in the waters. They too are not 100% reliable. And a chartplotter's electronics can die at hundreds of different points of failure. Even something as simple a blown backlight on the LCD can render it useless. To say nothing of corrosion on any number of connectors. Or just plain power failure. If the power goes out I can simply walk out in the SUNLIGHT, read the paper chart and eye up the navigation markers. The point is that none of them work well enough to be consider 'exclusive' of the others. Your fears come from your lack of understanding of the basic principles of navigation. And your naivete regarding possible interference with GPS is likewise lacking in understanding. Its clear that you are one of the old geezers who thinks its a sin to use anything but compass and paper map. You think this way because thats all you know. You're a fool if you think you know my level of experience. You're fishing to insult the intelligence of the group but all you're doing is painting yourself the idiot. While I agree that electronic charting is *definitely* worth using it's not without issues. Again, what issues would that be? Its interesting how vague your language gets when telling the world how much you hate electronic navigation. You don't want to admit that the only problem is that you fear it because you don't understand it. Again, see earlier fool comment. I understand electronic navigation quite well, thank you and I like using it whenever possible. But it's ridiculous to think it's and end-all, beat-all solution for navigation. And when it comes to safety I'm not sure I'd even bother arguing for 'saving'. Penny-wise, pound-foolish, more or less. You seem to be a rather slow individual. And you're an arrogant ass, but I'm sure you've heard that before. The idea that GPS navigation does not require buoys in any way in the water or on a chart has completely soared over your head. Your mind clearly has not come to grips with that basic fact. Instead you spend this post arguing that buoys should stay for redundancy. This is a perfectly good reason to keep buoys in the water but has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. Considering your inability to think and process written material in this thread, I'm glad I won't be riding on any of your boats. It doesn't sound safe. Wow, how stunningly immature. Instead of carrying out a rational conversation all you can do it stoop to insulting anyone that contradicts you? Wake us up when you grow up and learn how to converse. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t: If the power goes out I can simply walk out in the SUNLIGHT, read the paper chart and eye up the navigation markers. If the power "goes out", the chartplotter will be the least of our worries....(c; |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
Hows that chart in the fog?
G "Bill Kearney" wrote in message t... And let's hope they actually start discusssing the security risks associated with this idea. What security risks would that be? Invalid data being improperly uploaded from an authorized source. I sure hope not. Electronic devices fail and radio frequencies can be jammed or interferred with. Paper maps can be misprinted. They can get destroyed accidentally, and buoys can be moved by storms and collisions. A compass can be damaged and also interfered with by magnetic sources on the ship or in the waters. They too are not 100% reliable. And a chartplotter's electronics can die at hundreds of different points of failure. Even something as simple a blown backlight on the LCD can render it useless. To say nothing of corrosion on any number of connectors. Or just plain power failure. If the power goes out I can simply walk out in the SUNLIGHT, read the paper chart and eye up the navigation markers. The point is that none of them work well enough to be consider 'exclusive' of the others. Your fears come from your lack of understanding of the basic principles of navigation. And your naivete regarding possible interference with GPS is likewise lacking in understanding. Its clear that you are one of the old geezers who thinks its a sin to use anything but compass and paper map. You think this way because thats all you know. You're a fool if you think you know my level of experience. You're fishing to insult the intelligence of the group but all you're doing is painting yourself the idiot. While I agree that electronic charting is *definitely* worth using it's not without issues. Again, what issues would that be? Its interesting how vague your language gets when telling the world how much you hate electronic navigation. You don't want to admit that the only problem is that you fear it because you don't understand it. Again, see earlier fool comment. I understand electronic navigation quite well, thank you and I like using it whenever possible. But it's ridiculous to think it's and end-all, beat-all solution for navigation. And when it comes to safety I'm not sure I'd even bother arguing for 'saving'. Penny-wise, pound-foolish, more or less. You seem to be a rather slow individual. And you're an arrogant ass, but I'm sure you've heard that before. The idea that GPS navigation does not require buoys in any way in the water or on a chart has completely soared over your head. Your mind clearly has not come to grips with that basic fact. Instead you spend this post arguing that buoys should stay for redundancy. This is a perfectly good reason to keep buoys in the water but has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. Considering your inability to think and process written material in this thread, I'm glad I won't be riding on any of your boats. It doesn't sound safe. Wow, how stunningly immature. Instead of carrying out a rational conversation all you can do it stoop to insulting anyone that contradicts you? Wake us up when you grow up and learn how to converse. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Bill Kearney" wrote in message
t... And let's hope they actually start discusssing the security risks associated with this idea. What security risks would that be? Invalid data being improperly uploaded from an authorized source. Thats what Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) and data authentication is for. Its clear that you don't understand these concepts either. I sure hope not. Electronic devices fail and radio frequencies can be jammed or interferred with. Paper maps can be misprinted. They can get destroyed accidentally, and buoys can be moved by storms and collisions. A compass can be damaged and also interfered with by magnetic sources on the ship or in the waters. They too are not 100% reliable. And a chartplotter's electronics can die at hundreds of different points of failure. Even something as simple a blown backlight on the LCD can render it useless. To say nothing of corrosion on any number of connectors. Or just plain power failure. So in your own special immature way you are arguing that both systems have failure points. Duh. If the power goes out I can simply walk out in the SUNLIGHT, read the paper chart and eye up the navigation markers. This is why I'm afraid to ride on a boat that you are piloting. You don't even seem to understand that its dark for half the day. The point is that none of them work well enough to be consider 'exclusive' of the others. Read the subject line of this thread again. Its about using GPS to track buoys. Your fears come from your lack of understanding of the basic principles of navigation. And your naivete regarding possible interference with GPS is likewise lacking in understanding. You have a lot of courage to use the word "naivete" after your comment above about using daylight to read your paper map. Its clear that you purchased a GPS at your local boat store and have learned how to push a few of the buttons and now here you are trying to pretend you are an expert. How many times has your GPS quit working due to interference? Are you even aware of what is being done to reduce that problem? Do you even know what RAIM is? Its clear that you are one of the old geezers who thinks its a sin to use anything but compass and paper map. You think this way because thats all you know. You're a fool if you think you know my level of experience. Your level of experience is clear from the immature and emotional things you say. You're fishing to insult the intelligence of the group but all you're doing is painting yourself the idiot. You shouldn't try to hide behind the group now that you have been shown to not know much about what you are talking about. I see no one running to your aid or trying to defend your emotional statements. You are simply an old geezer who jumps at the chance to declare how you love paper maps and don't trust GPS because you don't understand GPS and now you are upset that I dared to point out that fact. While I agree that electronic charting is *definitely* worth using it's not without issues. Again, what issues would that be? Its interesting how vague your language gets when telling the world how much you hate electronic navigation. You don't want to admit that the only problem is that you fear it because you don't understand it. Again, see earlier fool comment. I understand electronic navigation quite well, thank you... No. You don't. You have demonstrated that you don't. and I like using it whenever possible. You are clearly an appliance operator. That's all you understand. Being an appliance operator is not a bad thing in itself, just don't try to pretend in this group that you understand anything about the basics of navigation. But it's ridiculous to think it's and end-all, beat-all solution for navigation. GPS navigation does not require buoys. It never did and it never will. The rest of your mindless bleating is against a straw man of your own making. And when it comes to safety I'm not sure I'd even bother arguing for 'saving'. Penny-wise, pound-foolish, more or less. You seem to be a rather slow individual. And you're an arrogant ass, but I'm sure you've heard that before. Only from old geezers who enjoy lecturing the rest of the world about how smart they are and how map and compass is the "end-all, beat-all solution for navigation" when the truth is that map and compass is all they learned and all they are capable of knowing. I'm still laughing from your claim that when your GPS fails you can simply take your paper map out into the SUNLIGHT. LOL! The idea that GPS navigation does not require buoys in any way in the water or on a chart has completely soared over your head. Your mind clearly has not come to grips with that basic fact. Instead you spend this post arguing that buoys should stay for redundancy. This is a perfectly good reason to keep buoys in the water but has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. Considering your inability to think and process written material in this thread, I'm glad I won't be riding on any of your boats. It doesn't sound safe. Wow, how stunningly immature. Yes, just what I was thinking about you and your fetish for paper map and compass. I see the concept that GPS does not require buoys is still way over your head. Instead of carrying out a rational conversation all you can do it stoop to insulting anyone that contradicts you? Wake us up when you grow up and learn how to converse. Learn how to read a post before you respond to it unless you wish to be shown the fool. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Larry" wrote in message ... "Bill Kearney" wrote in t: If the power goes out I can simply walk out in the SUNLIGHT, read the paper chart and eye up the navigation markers. If the power "goes out", the chartplotter will be the least of our worries....(c; I wonder when he will figure out that the power can also go out at night. LOL! The rantings of paper map and compass geezers always crack me up. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
Thats what Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) and data authentication is for. Its clear that you don't understand these concepts either. I'm quite familiar with PKI and the insecurities associated with it. You shouldn't try to hide behind the group now that you have been shown to not know much about what you are talking about. I see no one running to your aid or trying to defend your emotional statements. You are simply an old geezer who jumps at the chance to declare how you love paper maps and don't trust GPS because you don't understand GPS and now you are upset that I dared to point out that fact. You really are an arrogant one, aren't you? It's not about not understanding GPS or liking charts instead of it. It's about disagreeing with your blanket statements about GPS being a complete replacement for them, in an exclusionary manner. All the rest of your posting is just geared toward trying to shout down anyone that doesn't buy into your delusional beliefs. Only from old geezers who enjoy lecturing the rest of the world about how smart they are and how map and compass is the "end-all, beat-all solution for navigation" when the truth is that map and compass is all they learned and all they are capable of knowing. Were are you getting this whole 'geezer' issue from? What're you, a teenager still living in your parent's basement? It's not about lecturing anyone that paper and buoys are "better". More than binary arguments about one OR the other are ill-conceived. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Bill Kearney" wrote in message t... Thats what Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) and data authentication is for. Its clear that you don't understand these concepts either. I'm quite familiar with PKI and the insecurities associated with it. No. You are not. If you were then you would have mentioned it in your first response. Nice try at pretending you are smart but sorry, no cigar. You shouldn't try to hide behind the group now that you have been shown to not know much about what you are talking about. I see no one running to your aid or trying to defend your emotional statements. You are simply an old geezer who jumps at the chance to declare how you love paper maps and don't trust GPS because you don't understand GPS and now you are upset that I dared to point out that fact. You really are an arrogant one, aren't you? I am simply pointing out how obvious it is that you don't understand the basic principles of navigation, GPS, electronic charting and PKI and you also don't seem to understand that you can't read a paper map in the dark yet here you are in this group lecturing people about how great paper maps are. I would say it is you who is arrogant. You might learn a lot more if you stop talking and listen for a moment. It's not about not understanding GPS or liking charts instead of it. It's about disagreeing with your blanket statements about GPS being a complete replacement for them, in an exclusionary manner. All the rest of your posting is just geared toward trying to shout down anyone that doesn't buy into your delusional beliefs. Only from old geezers who enjoy lecturing the rest of the world about how smart they are and how map and compass is the "end-all, beat-all solution for navigation" when the truth is that map and compass is all they learned and all they are capable of knowing. Were are you getting this whole 'geezer' issue from? From your ill considered and uneducated outbursts in this thread that have nothing to do with the point being made which was that GPS never has required buoys and never will. What're you, a teenager still living in your parent's basement? It's not about lecturing anyone that paper and buoys are "better". More than binary arguments about one OR the other are ill-conceived. Belt and suspenders. Lots of tubby old geezers wear them both. You can continue to lecture the whole group about how you think that maps and compasses and buoys are required or the maritime industry will come to some sort of horrible destruction but I am personally getting bored with your shallowness and inability to read. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
I'm quite familiar with PKI and the insecurities associated with it.
No. You are not. If you were then you would have mentioned it in your first response. Nice try at pretending you are smart but sorry, no cigar. Ted, you're grasping at straws. It's apparent you've got some sort of ego trip you're trying to sustain. It's pathetic, you should seek help managing this anti-social behavior. From your ill considered and uneducated outbursts in this thread that have nothing to do with the point being made which was that GPS never has required buoys and never will. Uh, you seem desperate to try and attach that thinking to me and I've never espoused it. Belt and suspenders. Lots of tubby old geezers wear them both. You can continue to lecture the whole group about how you think that maps and compasses and buoys are required or the maritime industry will come to some sort of horrible destruction but I am personally getting bored with your shallowness and inability to read. Again, you seem bent on trying to prove your point based on little more than insults. I'm certainly not lecturing anyone on using any one solution over another, there's room (and need) for all of them. That you have tried to turn it into some sort of flamefest is pathetic. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPSto track buoys??
Ted wrote:
snip Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is located? When did buoys become a destinatiion in and of themselves instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater obstructions? Ted, Let me ask, have you ever actually spent any time doing coastal navigation? And if so, what navigation resources were available to you and which ones did you use? Jack -- Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Bill Kearney" wrote in message ... I'm quite familiar with PKI and the insecurities associated with it. No. You are not. If you were then you would have mentioned it in your first response. Nice try at pretending you are smart but sorry, no cigar. Ted, you're grasping at straws. I was making the point that GPS navigation does not require buoys. Then you jumped in and announced that buoys and paper maps in the sunlight are better than GPS - a complete and total non sequitur. You clearly don't know much at all about GPS but still felt the urgent need to jump in here and profess your geezer loyalty to map and compass and buoy. It wouldn't be so pathetic if a thousand geezers before you hadn't also tried to lecture the world about how map and compass and buoy is the only safe way to navigate the water. It's apparent you've got some sort of ego trip you're trying to sustain. It's pathetic, you should seek help managing this anti-social behavior. You are projecting your own emotional issues upon others with the above statement. Stay on topic and say something intelligent if you don't want to be called to task. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Larry" wrote in message ... "Ted" wrote in news:adL%f.3093$BS2.2461 @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net: The rantings of paper map and compass geezers always crack me up. I carry my sextant and books aboard, but merely for amusement to see if I can get even close to the four GPS receivers' positions with all the thrashing around out there. I even have an artificial horizon for practice at home. Everyone should know how to use the old nav instruments, but, frankly, even at the dock, I'm not even close, most of the time...(c; keeping and using map compass and sextant is not the problem. Constantly lecturing the world about how your favorite old technique must always be better than any newer technique is the problem. I still have a slide rule but don't seem to ever feel the need to lecture others that electronic calculators are inferior to slide rules. Keep your sextant. Use it often. Teach others how to use it. Until the stars burn out, It is still a valid technique. We do have a Yeoman plotter. It was the portable XL my captain left in his truck and all the hot glue it was held together with melted over in Hotlanta. He was going to junk it, but I took it apart and salvaged the scanning board, puck and computer daughterboard out of it. I used double- sided industrial-strength foam tape to mount it to the bottom of the mahogany chart table top. It fits great. The puck has no trouble getting a good, accurate scan through the wood, the entire chart book folded up so only the chart we want is on top. The chart table fiddles are used to hold the book, or chart, in place. Add a velum cover to draw on and that's our paper chart plot of where we've been and, should the unthinkable happen and four GPS receivers, 3 chart plotters and a Dell Latitude notebook all crash at once...we'll have an accurate chart to start plotting my awful sextant reading by. It sounds like you have a good backup plan for when all your GPSs fail. Good for you. But while your GPS systems are working you still will not need buoys. You should not be navigating to buoys with your GPS and buoys become not much more than a collision hazard on the water while you have a functioning GPS aboard. I wonder how many people have struck a buoy by accident vs the number of people who have had a boating accident due to failure of GPS. If anyone has data like that I would love to see it. Of course, we could just sail West until we bump into the United States of America. That doesn't take a PhD in navigation to find...(c; When all else fails you, its common sense like that (not expensive electronics or fancy paper charts) which gets you out of "hot water". |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Larry" wrote in message ... (snip) All this fighting reminds me of the guys on ham radio. The old geezers all tell us only CW (Morse Code) will be useful... One thing is certain, geezers are consistant to a fault. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Jack Erbes" wrote in message ... Ted wrote: snip Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is located? When did buoys become a destination in and of themselves instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater obstructions? Ted, Let me ask, have you ever actually spent any time doing coastal navigation? And if so, what navigation resources were available to you and which ones did you use? I used pilotage until GPS came along - a map and compass and dead reckoning with an occasional reference to a landmark on shore confirmed my position. I use range lights and my depth sounder to verify my location in the channel. See figure 13-10 on the following link. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-o/cgaux/Pub...tcrew/ch13.pdf I have a directional antenna to track the Coast Guard's medium frequency radiobeacons but have never needed to use it - never got lost. http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/ftp/RADIONAV/rbeacon.txt One can also track AM radio broadcast stations with this device if needed. When offshore, if you are able to remember which ocean you are in, then its not very difficult to know what direction on the compass land can be found. I measure distance in gallons of fuel. While heading offshore, when one third of my fuel supply is exhausted then I'm as far out to sea as is allowed by the skipper (me). After GPS, my map and compass stay in my emergency kit. They haven't seen the light of day in years. I have only lost the GPS signal in two places on earth - north of the royal observatory in Greenwich England and in the harbor west of Naples Italy. Years ago, before GPS, a friend of mine returning from sea had an unexpected magnetic source on his boat that affected his compass and took him fifty miles off course. This "compass failure" almost ran him out of fuel before he reached shore. I don't put much faith in the cry of the geezers about the undisputed reliability of the simple magnetic compass and the paper map. I don't believe that most of them even go boating. They just sit on the internet and run their mouth. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Ted" wrote in message ink.net... "Jack Erbes" wrote in message ... Ted wrote: snip Now that we have GPS, why are buoys needed anymore? Aren't you really interested in where the channel is located and not the location of some buoy that also happens to be trying to show you where the channel is located? When did buoys become a destination in and of themselves instead of merely a source of nautical information guiding us around underwater obstructions? Ted, Let me ask, have you ever actually spent any time doing coastal navigation? And if so, what navigation resources were available to you and which ones did you use? I used pilotage until GPS came along - a map and compass and dead reckoning with an occasional reference to a landmark on shore confirmed my position. I use range lights and my depth sounder to verify my location in the channel. See figure 13-10 on the following link. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-o/cgaux/Pub...tcrew/ch13.pdf I have a directional antenna to track the Coast Guard's medium frequency radiobeacons but have never needed to use it - never got lost. http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/ftp/RADIONAV/rbeacon.txt One can also track AM radio broadcast stations with this device if needed. When offshore, if you are able to remember which ocean you are in, then its not very difficult to know what direction on the compass land can be found. I measure distance in gallons of fuel. While heading offshore, when one third of my fuel supply is exhausted then I'm as far out to sea as is allowed by the skipper (me). After GPS, my map and compass stay in my emergency kit. They haven't seen the light of day in years. I have only lost the GPS signal in two places on earth - north of the royal observatory in Greenwich England and in the harbor west of Naples Italy. Years ago, before GPS, a friend of mine returning from sea had an unexpected magnetic source on his boat that affected his compass and took him fifty miles off course. This "compass failure" almost ran him out of fuel before he reached shore. I don't put much faith in the cry of the geezers about the undisputed reliability of the simple magnetic compass and the paper map. I don't believe that most of them even go boating. They just sit on the internet and run their mouth. By the way... I have also been in weather bad enough that my paper chart fell off the table into the 4 inches of salt water on the floor and then floated away into the engine compartment while my GPS stayed firmly bolted to the wall in front of the helm. After an experience like that you might be able to imagine why I don't have much patience for geezers who ignorantly sing the praises of paper maps as the be-all and end-all in marine navigation and why I don't believe that most of them have ever been to sea. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Ted" wrote in news:zN40g.2472$An2.2251
@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net: I was making the point that GPS navigation does not require buoys. AT some point in the future, when the wireless technology exists where your chartplotter will connect with the mapping agency for all the updates, every time you turn it on (sort of like Windows Update does when you turn your laptop on)...at that point, I would agree. But, alas, that is far into the future as boating crawls along at a technology snails pace. The boys went out in the bouy tender, last Friday, and moved that bouy out 300' farther into what USED to be the channel, before the tide decided to make a low tide beach out of it for the kids to enjoy. This marks the now 300' narrower channel so you don't run "Titanic" aground, creating your own hazard to navigation. The bouy gives immediate data to the more competent sailors. "Stay on THAT side of me, or your gonna spend the night.", he says to me by mental telepathy. Just as soon as the bouy boys left it in its new position, all mariners, even those not really mariners, had its instructions to stay clear on THAT side of it. Your chartplotter/GPS has data in it that's at least 3 years old, by the time the bouy's new position grinds its way through, first, the government bureaucracy, gets printed up in a Notice to Mariners, gets picked up by the mapping company, gets plotted on the appropriate chart, gets charted into a C-Map ROM....then, after 2 years of procrastination on your part trying NOT to spend all that money they want for an upgrade to the old C-Map ROM you're using now, gets bought by you and actually shows up in the new position on your display. Of course, during those 3 years, the bouy boys have moved the damned bouy 12 more times as the tide keeps making changes to the low tide beach the kids are enjoying, there at Dead Man's Bend. ANY data now available about Dead Man's Bend on ANY C-Map chart is REAL OLD AND ALWAYS OUT OF DATE! That's not true of that bouy you show so much disdain for. Its warning is as instantaneous as it takes the bouy boys to move it. Please don't tell me you navigate narrow channels with GPS chartplotters. If you do, I wanna be FAR away from you....there in the dark. Don't forget to leave the anchor light on when, not if, you're aground to warn the rest of us. Now, at some point, technology will overcome the resistance maritime interests have to its capabilities. Just like AIS is doing now, 10 years after a ham radio operator invented APRS, there'll come a time when the gears will grind out a wireless data link, running right off that bouy's batteries, maybe, but certainly from the shore station wireless data link. Your chartplotter won't have a $400 CDROM or a $300 chart plug. It'll have a $400 SUBSCRIPTION, which will, like Norton Internet Security, allow you to connect to the planet's nav data clearinghouse server, very profitably run by some overpriced contractor selling you data your taxes created...you know, like weather data is. Before you go to the boat, even, you can logon the laptop, or that new wireless- equipped GPS handheld and they will automatically call the server, updating their hard drive databases of every shoal on the planet. Your boat's chart will look exactly like the master chart the bouy boys updated from THEIR wireless computer aboard the bouy tender, probably before the bouy anchor touched bottom again. When you turn on the boat's fancy new GPS chart plotter, it'll spin up its hard drive, logon to the nav data server, and upgrade itself with all the latest charts, before you get the AC power cord wound up around the dock post so you can go sailing. By the time you leave the dock, your charts will be their charts....not their charts from 3 years ago. Until that time....PLEASE, stay on THAT side of the bouy, not what's on your screen! |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Larry" wrote in message ... "Ted" wrote in news:zN40g.2472$An2.2251 @newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net: I was making the point that GPS navigation does not require buoys. AT some point in the future, when the wireless technology exists where your chartplotter will connect with the mapping agency for all the updates, every time you turn it on (sort of like Windows Update does when you turn your laptop on)...at that point, I would agree. But, alas, that is far into the future as boating crawls along at a technology snails pace. The boys went out in the bouy tender, last Friday, and moved that bouy out 300' farther into what USED to be the channel, before the tide decided to make a low tide beach out of it for the kids to enjoy. This marks the now 300' narrower channel so you don't run "Titanic" aground, creating your own hazard to navigation. The bouy gives immediate data to the more competent sailors. "Stay on THAT side of me, or your gonna spend the night.", he says to me by mental telepathy. Just as soon as the bouy boys left it in its new position, all mariners, even those not really mariners, had its instructions to stay clear on THAT side of it. Your chartplotter/GPS has data in it that's at least 3 years old, by the time the bouy's new position grinds its way through, first, the government bureaucracy, gets printed up in a Notice to Mariners, gets picked up by the mapping company, gets plotted on the appropriate chart, gets charted into a C-Map ROM....then, after 2 years of procrastination on your part trying NOT to spend all that money they want for an upgrade to the old C-Map ROM you're using now, gets bought by you and actually shows up in the new position on your display. Of course, during those 3 years, the bouy boys have moved the damned bouy 12 more times as the tide keeps making changes to the low tide beach the kids are enjoying, there at Dead Man's Bend. ANY data now available about Dead Man's Bend on ANY C-Map chart is REAL OLD AND ALWAYS OUT OF DATE! That's not true of that bouy you show so much disdain for. Its warning is as instantaneous as it takes the bouy boys to move it. Please don't tell me you navigate narrow channels with GPS chartplotters. If you do, I wanna be FAR away from you....there in the dark. Don't forget to leave the anchor light on when, not if, you're aground to warn the rest of us. Now, at some point, technology will overcome the resistance maritime interests have to its capabilities. Just like AIS is doing now, 10 years after a ham radio operator invented APRS, there'll come a time when the gears will grind out a wireless data link, running right off that bouy's batteries, maybe, but certainly from the shore station wireless data link. Your chartplotter won't have a $400 CDROM or a $300 chart plug. It'll have a $400 SUBSCRIPTION, which will, like Norton Internet Security, allow you to connect to the planet's nav data clearinghouse server, very profitably run by some overpriced contractor selling you data your taxes created...you know, like weather data is. Before you go to the boat, even, you can logon the laptop, or that new wireless- equipped GPS handheld and they will automatically call the server, updating their hard drive databases of every shoal on the planet. Your boat's chart will look exactly like the master chart the bouy boys updated from THEIR wireless computer aboard the bouy tender, probably before the bouy anchor touched bottom again. When you turn on the boat's fancy new GPS chart plotter, it'll spin up its hard drive, logon to the nav data server, and upgrade itself with all the latest charts, before you get the AC power cord wound up around the dock post so you can go sailing. By the time you leave the dock, your charts will be their charts....not their charts from 3 years ago. Until that time....PLEASE, stay on THAT side of the bouy, not what's on your screen! Are you refering to the buoy before or after the bouy tender boys moved it because it was in the wrong place? |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"ted" wrote in
ink.net: Are you refering to the buoy before or after the bouy tender boys moved it because it was in the wrong place? After. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPSto track buoys??
Ted wrote:
snip I don't put much faith in the cry of the geezers about the undisputed reliability of the simple magnetic compass and the paper map. I don't believe that most of them even go boating. They just sit on the internet and run their mouth. snip ..why I don't have much patience for geezers who ignorantly sing the praises of paper maps as the be-all and end-all in marine navigation and why I don't believe that most of them have ever been to sea. Thanks for the details. You seem a little fixated on older people and people that use charts. I have nothing against either one of those groups. When I go to sea it is usually to deliver someone else's boat and my focus is to do it without damaging the boat or getting lost. I usually have at least three frames of reference available for navigation and I use them all. But I never put my trust in any one of them exclusively. Coastal Maine is not a good place for relying on one thing, I like the warm fuzzy feeling I got when I have two or three things telling me that I probably am where I think I am. Between the navaids, the chartbook, and the GPS chart plotter, I'm the only one that has to be right all of the time. Jack -- Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Jack Erbes" wrote in message ... Ted wrote: snip I don't put much faith in the cry of the geezers about the undisputed reliability of the simple magnetic compass and the paper map. I don't believe that most of them even go boating. They just sit on the internet and run their mouth. snip ..why I don't have much patience for geezers who ignorantly sing the praises of paper maps as the be-all and end-all in marine navigation and why I don't believe that most of them have ever been to sea. Thanks for the details. You seem a little fixated on older people and people that use charts. I have nothing against either one of those groups. When I go to sea it is usually to deliver someone else's boat and my focus is to do it without damaging the boat or getting lost. I usually have at least three frames of reference available for navigation and I use them all. But I never put my trust in any one of them exclusively. Jack, the subject line says "...why do we use GPS to track buoys??" Do you use your GPS to navigate to buoys? With how many of them have you collided? Coastal Maine is not a good place for relying on one thing, I like the warm fuzzy feeling I got when I have two or three things telling me that I probably am where I think I am. Between the navaids, the chartbook, and the GPS chart plotter, I'm the only one that has to be right all of the time. Jack -- Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net (also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Larry" wrote in message ... "ted" wrote in ink.net: Are you refering to the buoy before or after the bouy tender boys moved it because it was in the wrong place? After. So the poor saps who just happened to be sailing by BEFORE the buoy location was corrected must have been really screwed. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Larry" wrote in message ... "Ted" wrote in news:zN40g.2472$An2.2251 @newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net: I was making the point that GPS navigation does not require buoys. AT some point in the future, when the wireless technology exists where your chartplotter will connect with the mapping agency for all the updates, every time you turn it on (sort of like Windows Update does when you turn your laptop on)...at that point, I would agree... Better yet, users of the map data could mark locations on the water as they arrive where the map appears to be incorrect or they could mark a new found hazard not yet shown on the chart and that information gets uploaded back to the mapping agency for dissemination in the form of mariner reports until the problem can be investigated, confirmed and the map officially updated. |
AIS ship data: everibody have seen this? - why do we use GPS to track buoys??
"Jack Erbes" wrote in message ... Ted wrote: I don't put much faith in the cry of the geezers about the undisputed reliability of the simple magnetic compass and the paper map. I don't believe that most of them even go boating. They just sit on the internet and run their mouth. ..why I don't have much patience for geezers who ignorantly sing the praises of paper maps as the be-all and end-all in marine navigation and why I don't believe that most of them have ever been to sea. You seem a little fixated on older people and people that use charts. You haven't been paying attention. I'm a little impatient with geezers who lecture the maritime world about how they believe that paper maps are the end-all and be-all of navigation. I have listened to them rant and fuss over the demise of paper maps for over ten years and its getting old. I use paper maps myself but never feel the need to lecture the world about paper maps are the greatest thing that ever will be. I have not yet seen a young person behaving like a geezer. Its always an older person who has fallen behind the times and feels threatened by that fact. Its also very often an overweight older person who is no longer participating in the activity he is lecturing about. It brings new meaning to the old saying: those who can, do, and those who can't, teach. (or in this case, lecture) Take notice of the subject line of this thread. Buoys clutter the chart and provide a dangerous collision hazard on the water. We have put up with this hazard for years because in the past we needed buoys. With the arrival of GPS, they should be removed. http://www.california-car-accident-l...s/pic_boat.jpg |
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