Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

I noticed in the Raymarine announcement for version 6.0, that you can
now plug your PC directly into the 8-port hub (why not the 2 port hub
or direct to the E series ??), and do away with hsb2 and/or NMEA
connections.

This is going to simply things on my new boat.

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

From what I've heard RNS 6.0 will be available march-april 06.
If connected to a E-series display throug a ethernet connection
all data, both numerical data and radar-, plotter- and fishfinder images
will be transfered to the PC throug one only wire. Like any
E-Series diplay on the SeaTalk HS network (=ethernet).
Navionics charts on CF plugged into a E-Series display will be available
to the PC and you'll also have full control of the system (radar etc.)
A external CF reader will aso be availabel so that you can take your laptop
home and do route planning at home, using the same charts.
According to my information the charts can not be passed from the PC
to the E-Series diplays, but RNS 6.0 will probably also support other types
of charts BSB etc like the older versions RNS 5.0.

TomS

"b393capt" wrote in message
oups.com...
I noticed in the Raymarine announcement for version 6.0, that you can
now plug your PC directly into the 8-port hub (why not the 2 port hub
or direct to the E series ??), and do away with hsb2 and/or NMEA
connections.

This is going to simply things on my new boat.

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

TomS wrote:
From what I've heard RNS 6.0 will be available march-april 06.
If connected to a E-series display throug a ethernet connection
all data, both numerical data and radar-, plotter- and fishfinder images
will be transfered to the PC throug one only wire. Like any
E-Series diplay on the SeaTalk HS network (=ethernet).
Navionics charts on CF plugged into a E-Series display will be available
to the PC and you'll also have full control of the system (radar etc.)
A external CF reader will aso be availabel so that you can take your laptop
home and do route planning at home, using the same charts.
According to my information the charts can not be passed from the PC
to the E-Series diplays, but RNS 6.0 will probably also support other types
of charts BSB etc like the older versions RNS 5.0.

TomS

"b393capt" wrote in message
oups.com...

I noticed in the Raymarine announcement for version 6.0, that you can
now plug your PC directly into the 8-port hub (why not the 2 port hub
or direct to the E series ??), and do away with hsb2 and/or NMEA
connections.

This is going to simply things on my new boat.




Raymarine 6.0 will support both raster and vector charts. I have a beta
version and use both maptech and softchart with it.
krj

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"Bjarke Christensen" (nej, det skal selvfølgelig
være med K da jeg er dansker) wrote in news:4415cbe0$0$60781$157c6196
@dreader1.cybercity.dk:

Is Garmins new "network" also plain ethernet ?



Given marine electronics manufacturers' history of proprietary crapware
designed specifically to thwart hooking "their" equipment up to "our"
equipment, I doubt any of it is going to be "plain ethernet" just any ol'
router TCP/IP network is going to be compatible with.

Hell, even some of the NMEA 0183 crapware can't talk to each other. (See
recent thread trying to get a Garmin GPS to talk to a NMEA plotter.)

You'll need a special box, of course, like always. 183 Euros plus layers
of tax and shipping....

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

So if you plug in the RJ's in a ordinary ethernet hub/switch it will not
work ??

/Bjarke

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Bjarke Christensen" (nej, det skal selvfølgelig
være med K da jeg er dansker) wrote in news:4415cbe0$0$60781$157c6196
@dreader1.cybercity.dk:

Is Garmins new "network" also plain ethernet ?



Given marine electronics manufacturers' history of proprietary crapware
designed specifically to thwart hooking "their" equipment up to "our"
equipment, I doubt any of it is going to be "plain ethernet" just any ol'
router TCP/IP network is going to be compatible with.

Hell, even some of the NMEA 0183 crapware can't talk to each other. (See
recent thread trying to get a Garmin GPS to talk to a NMEA plotter.)

You'll need a special box, of course, like always. 183 Euros plus layers
of tax and shipping....

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

I don't know, but am speculating it will require some expensive special
"box" like they have always done to us in the past. It would be nice if
it
would. There's 4 ports open on my wireless router in the boat...(c;

Their cables have weatherproof covers but the connector inside is just an
RJ45. So does their switch. That alone makes it worth considering instead
of a non-marine piece of consumer electronics junk.

Don't know if it's plain ethernet or not. But considering that Raytech v6
is supposed to be able to use plain ethernet from a PC it seems reasonable
to think the wire protocol and connectors are using ethernet. While it may
not be routable TCP or UDP it would be rather odd to see them trying to use
something completely non-standard at this point in time; given the costs to
us plain ethernet chipsets make no economic sense to reinvent the wheel.

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

On 2006-03-16 00:20:35 +1100, Larry said:

"Bjarke Christensen" (nej, det skal
selvfølgelig være med K da jeg er dansker) wrote in
news:4417270c$0$67256$157c6196
@dreader2.cybercity.dk:

So if you plug in the RJ's in a ordinary ethernet hub/switch it will
not work ??



I don't know, but am speculating it will require some expensive special
"box" like they have always done to us in the past. It would be nice
if it would. There's 4 ports open on my wireless router in the
boat...(c;

Larry and others,

You have to remember that ethernet is much much more than the physical
layer. Just look at the number of RFC documents specifying all the
protocols which run over a TCP/IP network!

How the data is encpsulated either via a connection sequenced protocol
(TCP/IP) or via a connectionless protocol (UDP) is basically up to the
application. NMEA is a connectionless protocol and therefore it may be
a good assumption that the ethernet variant will be likewise. However,
with radar image data being sent over it is highly likely that some
form of sequencing would be required.

Raymarine is not the only game in town as far as ethernet connectivity
goes just look at FURUNO's NavNet system and MaxSea software. Like has
been said it would take a very deep pocketed development team not to
take advantage of the TCP/IP stacks available for their chosen embedded
platform.

--
Regards,
John D Proctor

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

I noticed in the Raymarine announcement for version 6.0

So when is this actually going to ship?

Likewise, when is Navionics going to ship NavPlanner?

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

Oh, I know all that.....but the protocols are STANDARDIZED so you and I
and
everyone else on the net can use them without paying someone more for
their
proprietary "box".

The Internet != Ethernet. What gets routed between PCs and webservers is
not necessarily the same stuff that might be present on a device-to-device
subnet. There's all manner of ways to shuffle data across an ethernet wire,
only two of which are commonly used on "The Internet". IPX, AppleTalk,
DecNet are but a few. And a switch may well have to be aware of the
protocol in order to properly handle the packets.

This proprietary bull**** is what burns my ass. Boaters are wasting
millions trying to get data out of A's crapware so they can see it on B's
crapware.

So true. I liken it to making the customers swim out to an island and then
chumming the waters to keep them from leaving once they discover how crappy
the accomodations turned out to be. More and more these days customers are
getting wise to that sort of tactic and are refusing to go along with it.

NMEA's *******ization just makes another obstacle.

True, but a lot of that '*******ization' is to implement what a basic
protocol does not provide. In the case of NMEA 0813 devices it appears to
be a mix of going beyond the spec and half-assing it. One might hope NMEA
2000 will have less of this foolishness.

Of course, like always, it's about the money....

Or about making sure your devices work in an expected fashion. Trying to do
what customers want when the underlying spec doesn't handle it often means
going beyond the spec. They're not *always* out to screw the customers, it
just seems that way when hindsight is involved.

-Bill Kearney

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

My thoughts too. And then they will (as usual) either keep it a secreet og
try to worry us with arguments like "specially tested for marine use"
making
almost impossible for other companies to sell even a equally waterproof
ethernet switch.

I'm all for the idea of using equipment that's designed for use in a marine
environment. The last thing I want when I jump in the boat after a long
work week is to discover some cheapie consumer-grade device has gotten
corroded and shorted out my electrical system in an attempt to save itself.
But coming a close second is not getting reamed paying for "marine" stuff.
Especially when it's tweaked to be proprietary.

Best price I've seen on it thus far has been around $230. That's a bit of a
premium for an 8 port ethernet switch but not egregiously so if it's got a
decent switch inside it. But seeing as boating environment isn't likely to
be a bandwidth hog they may have just slapped a low-end switch in there.
Anyone know what's actually in there?

Once we get the boat in the water I'll see if our E-80 works with a regular
ethernet switch. But until they actually get around to shipping Raytech v6
there won't be anything on the wire to packet sniff with Ethereal.

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t:

They're not *always* out to screw the customers, it
just seems that way when hindsight is involved.



Let's not forget what the M in NMEA stands for. They ARE NMEA...

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t:

The last thing I want when I jump in the boat after a long
work week is to discover some cheapie consumer-grade device has gotten
corroded and shorted out my electrical system in an attempt to save
itself. But coming a close second is not getting reamed paying for
"marine" stuff. Especially when it's tweaked to be proprietary.


Wouldn't that be nice? But, let's look at the, so called, marine stuff.
A plastic box with cheap screw terminals you can buy at any Radio Shack
inside it on two little plastic pins not even screwed to the box. That
accurately describes a Raymarine Seatalk Junction Box.

A potted-so-noone-can-ever-fix-it epoxy box with cheap screw terminals
sticking up through the plastic from the PC board in the potting to hook
your tiny wires to. That accurately describes a Noland NMEA multiplexer.
It's not even in a protective plastic box. Ours is stuck to the cabinet
its in behind the helm with velcro because there's no way to mount it
otherwise.

An open chassis with many holes in it made out of painted aluminum. The
holes are open so cooling air can be drawn into the box to cool the
transmitter, the sea air being drawn over every unprotected PC board and
component, none of which are "potted" to protect them, and spit out
another hole on the other side. Cheap little plastic connectors with
very fragile pins and no seals of any kind, hardly any kind of locking
device to keep it from simply falling apart connects its vital control
cable to the reasonably-nicely-sealed remote antenna tuner. This
accurately describes the "marine SSB" the Icom M802, the flagship HF
radio of Icom's Marine Line.

A zinc-potmetal box, easily converted to zinc oxide, loosely covering
vital, unprotected PC boards inside it, but left with gaping holes in it
so the cheapest of direct-board-connector-pins can connect it to its
chinzy, unsealed control/data/power cable. Its main DC power supplied by
pushing the raw wires into a clamp held open against its spring by your
screwdriver. The potmetal box is mounted inside a big plastic case with
a cursory rubber seal, but only held together by FOUR little screws that
cannot pinch the rubber seal shut without cracking the cheap plastic the
box is made of with screws so far apart. Matters not, in the bottom of
the unsealed plastic box, there is a rubber drain inside one of the
little plastic compartments caused by the plastic "stringers" that
stiffen the plastic enough to support the units internal weight. The sun
and outside air temperature insure wet air is pumped in and out of the
cabinet...in at dusk when the dew forms on the inside of the plastic box
that turned cold when the sun went down...and out without draining the
water out of the flat-bottomed, compartmentalized box, in the heat of the
day. The humidity of the inside of this box is 100% at 100F or more all
day long. Everything in the box rots, rusts, corrodes and the potmetal
main chassis is eaten by the daily rainstorm like the inside of an empty
metal gas tank. This accurately describes the 2KW radome of a "marine"
Raymarine radar scanner. I've gone through THREE.

None of the so-called "marine" AM-FM-CD players is any different from the
car version with the completely open chassis, except it has a white front
panel instead of black. Marine my ass.

Amazingly expensive cabin fans made in China and monikered with
impressive names like Hella that don't even have a fan guard to keep the
kids fingers safe, mounted with a steel screw through a plastic base with
the cheapest motors on the planet. Marine or "consumer"?

Marine panel instruments you just KNOW are going to get splashed that
always leak past the glass to fog up the inside of the instrument so you
can't read it on a cold morning. Marine or consumer??

Just some examples. Equipment sold to yachtsmen aren't any different
than equipment sold to CBers or home entertainment customers.....

It's all crap.

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Wouldn't that be nice? But, let's look at the, so called, marine stuff.

In the context of Raymarine's seatalk hs, the connectors are designed seal
out the marine environment. That other devices don't, even when claiming to
be intended for the marine environment, is no surprise. But hey, if posting
that manifesto lets you vent off that stress, g'head.

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"Bill Kearney" wrote in
t:

In the context of Raymarine's seatalk hs, the connectors are designed
seal out the marine environment. That other devices don't, even when
claiming to be intended for the marine environment, is no surprise.
But hey, if posting that manifesto lets you vent off that stress,
g'head.



The connector box uses those little European screw terminals in a poly
plastic strip you shove the wires in the side holes on each side and clamp
them with a jeweler's screwdriver through the hole provided. The box is
just a plastic construction box with RAYMARINE printed on the cover. If I
were them, I wouldn't be so proud of it to put my name on it....(c;

Of course, I wouldn't advertise on the radome, either...hee hee....

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

Larry, NoLand hasn't been using the so called
"potted-so-noone-can-ever-fix-it epoxy box" for years now. You must
have a fairly old unit. I suggest that you take another look at the
Noland Engineering products:

www.nolandengineering.com

I suspect that when that potted mux or yours was purchased, it was a
lot better and less expensive than anything else available at that
time. Of course, the obsolete potted configuration is not best now.
That's why it is obsolete and not sold anymore.

The current NoLand products work great and they're still priced right.

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"marv" wrote in news:1142658011.419723.50050
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

www.nolandengineering.com

http://www.nolandengineering.com/nm42.php

Yep...There it is. The only difference I see is the serial port has a
DB9 hanging by its pins out of the potted plastic box, now, instead of
all the wires. The rest of the little screw-terminals-to-crush-wires-
with remain, hardly a "marine" unit, what with all the copper wires and
who-knows-what-metal screw terminals electrolyzing themselves in the
humidity.

Wonder if the routing got any better? If you had the computer connected,
the "OUT" data pins had data on them, not from the 4-input ports properly
multiplexed...but from the serial port input from the computer. UNPLUG
the computer (make believe Windoze went tits up, a real possibility at
any moment), and the OUT port is DEAD! No, if you want to get
multiplexed data out of it with no computer connected to it, Noland tells
you to connected your NMEA (RS-422 level) instruments to the SERIAL PORT
OUTPUT (RS-232 isn't NMEA RS-422 levels)! I have a little toggle switch
in my helm-to-nav terminating box next to the Noland that switches from
COMPUTER to NO COMPUTER by connecting the network to OUT if the computer
is connected and to the SERIAL PORT OUTPUT terminal if no computer is on
the system. Dumb? I thought so. I wonder if this unit is still
connected that way, too stupid to know how to switch it when you shut
down the computer. Inside, it would only take single switch to do it
automatically....go figure.

(Meindert! Wipe that knowing smile off your face!)

Looks like same unit as ours to me, except for the DB9 hanging out of it
not properly mounted to anything.

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Wonder if the routing got any better? If you had the computer connected,
the "OUT" data pins had data on them, not from the 4-input ports properly
multiplexed...but from the serial port input from the computer. UNPLUG
the computer (make believe Windoze went tits up, a real possibility at
any moment), and the OUT port is DEAD! No, if you want to get
multiplexed data out of it with no computer connected to it, Noland tells
you to connected your NMEA (RS-422 level) instruments to the SERIAL PORT
OUTPUT (RS-232 isn't NMEA RS-422 levels)! I have a little toggle switch
in my helm-to-nav terminating box next to the Noland that switches from
COMPUTER to NO COMPUTER by connecting the network to OUT if the computer
is connected and to the SERIAL PORT OUTPUT terminal if no computer is on
the system. Dumb? I thought so. I wonder if this unit is still
connected that way, too stupid to know how to switch it when you shut
down the computer. Inside, it would only take single switch to do it
automatically....go figure.

(Meindert! Wipe that knowing smile off your face!)

Damn, you caught me redhanded....:-)
To be honest, when I developed my multiplexers, I closely looked at Noland's
to see how it should not be done.
Also, this automatic switchover when you shut down the computer is a
standard feature here...

Meindert

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

Meindert Sprang wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message
...

(Meindert! Wipe that knowing smile off your face!)


Damn, you caught me redhanded....:-)
To be honest, when I developed my multiplexers, I closely looked at Noland's
to see how it should not be done.

grin

But, Larry might still object to the "screw-terminals-to-crush-wires-
with" that you use (like Noland). Note: he said it, not me. I actually
_like_ them. But that's probably 'cause I am European... Quoting Larry
again, this time on Raymarine's NMEA converter box:

The connector box uses those little European screw terminals in a poly
plastic strip you shove the wires in the side holes on each side and
clamp them with a jeweler's screwdriver through the hole provided.

Oops, even this criticism could be applied to your multiplexer:

The box is just a plastic construction box with RAYMARINE printed on
the cover. If I were them, I wouldn't be so proud of it to put my
name on it....(c;

Maybe somebody should start making multiplexers made in South Carolina,
USA ;-)

/grin

--
Kees
(Happy Shipmodul Customer)

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"Kees Verruijt" wrote in message
...
But, Larry might still object to the "screw-terminals-to-crush-wires-
with" that you use (like Noland). Note: he said it, not me. I actually
_like_ them. But that's probably 'cause I am European... Quoting Larry
again, this time on Raymarine's NMEA converter box:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with screw terminals. They don't crush
wires when used properly. Most important is not to tin the wires before
putting them in the terminals.

The connector box uses those little European screw terminals in a poly
plastic strip you shove the wires in the side holes on each side and
clamp them with a jeweler's screwdriver through the hole provided.

Oops, even this criticism could be applied to your multiplexer:

Don't worry about it. We use non-ferrous screw terminals and they (the
multiplexers) have been tested in a salt mist and spray test for 28 days at
95% hum. and 35 degr. C. There was almost no corrosion found.

Kees
(Happy Shipmodul Customer)

:-)

Meindert

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
:

Don't worry about it. We use non-ferrous screw terminals and they (the
multiplexers) have been tested in a salt mist and spray test for 28
days at 95% hum. and 35 degr. C. There was almost no corrosion found.



What do they look like after 28 days of spray test when connected to
COPPER WIRES. Noone's multiplexer is just connected to air. Put the
copper wires into the little holes and spray some seawater on them and
wait 28 days.....for the electrolysis to take hold...(c;

Nickel and copper are very close regarding electro potential, so there's not
enough voltage generated for electrolysis.

http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/T...ct?C=11526&F=0
&M=CINF&GIID=1293&LG=1&I=13
These. I really like these. Cheap cars use them, boats can afford them.

http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/T...ct?C=20018&F=0
&M=CINF&GIID=2198&LG=1&I=13

The problem with these connectors is that they are cheap in high volumes. No
ordinary distributor stock these.

Just some CHEAP, WATERPROOF, real connectors with STRAIN RELIEF so the
screw terminals aren't supporting the wires vibrating around in the
waves.

The wires should be mechanically supported anyway.

What are we talkin'....$3/unit?
We are currently paying around $1.50 for the terminals. The moment you start
using something "fancy", the price increases quite a lot.

Damn the shovin the wires under the cheap screw terminals. We left that
in the 1920's.....

That's nonsense and you know that.

Meindert

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
:

The wires should be mechanically supported anyway.


How with only screw terminals on the outside of a sealed box?

My point exactly.....(sigh)

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

Larry wrote:

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
:


The wires should be mechanically supported anyway.



How with only screw terminals on the outside of a sealed box?

My point exactly.....(sigh)

Let me guess Larry, you've never encountered any neatly bundled and
properly supported wiring runs on a boat?

I don't want wiring firmly attached to the outside of the box, I want it
firmly attached inside the box, properly sealed at entry when/if
appropriate, and properly supported near the entry with just enough
slack to work on it when/if needed.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

"Jack Erbes" wrote in message
...
Larry wrote:

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
:


The wires should be mechanically supported anyway.



How with only screw terminals on the outside of a sealed box?

My point exactly.....(sigh)

Let me guess Larry, you've never encountered any neatly bundled and
properly supported wiring runs on a boat?

My point exactly.....(sigh)

Meindert

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

Meindert Sprang wrote:

My point exactly.....(sigh)

Meindert

I got your point Meindert, I had let ell hay are are why off easy on his
last Raymarine radome rant so I took the dig there when I got the
chance. This can be our little secret if you don't tell him. :)

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

Larry wrote:
Jack Erbes wrote in
:


I got your point Meindert, I had let ell hay are are why off easy on his
last Raymarine radome rant so I took the dig there when I got the
chance. This can be our little secret if you don't tell him. :)

Jack

-


Next time I take that POS down I'm going to post pictures of its rotten
guts, just for you, Jack.

Thanks Larry, it will certainly enhance your credibility with me.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

Likewise, when is Navionics going to ship NavPlanner?

It's apparently shippped and is widely regarded as being HORRIBLE. So bad
that they've suspended shipment of it.

Raymarine Raytech RNS 6.0
 

Once we get the boat in the water I'll see if our E-80 works with a
regular
ethernet switch. But until they actually get around to shipping Raytech
v6
there won't be anything on the wire to packet sniff with Ethereal.

Yes, it's plain old ethernet. It connected right into a regular ethernet
switch using Raymarine's supplied cable. It appears to be sending its data
as UDP packets. Ethereal, running on the laptop, saw quite a bit of this
data while the E-80 was active. No idea where the packet data is
documented.