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Brent Geery
 
Posts: n/a
Default Connecting all the nav instruments together?

I'm totally confused about how I attach all these nav instruments
together for maximum flexibility. I'm planning on using a
MiniPlex-42BT to multiplex them all together, along with a Dell Axim
X51V PDA and a laptop, both via bluetooth, as a chart plotter using
the FUGAWI Marine ENC Windows and PDA software.


I've got:

- Garmin GPS (NMEA Talker (and Listener?) What about Garmin Mode?)
- JRC Radar 1500 Mk2 (NEMA Listener)
- VHF Transceiver (NMEA Listener and Talker)
- NASA AIS Engine [NMEA Listener and Talker)
- Backup VHF Transceiver (NMEA Listener)

- Tillerpilot ST1000 (SEATALK Listener (and Talker?))
- Raymarine ST40 Wind (SEATALK Talker only?)
- Raymarine ST40 Bidata (SEATALK Talker only?)
- Raymarine ST30 Fluxgate Compass (SEATALK Talker only) (haven't
purchased yet)

- Dell Axim X51V PDA (NMEA Listener (and talker?)) What about Garmin
Format?) -- via Bluetooth

- MiniPlex-42BT NMEA Multiplexor (not purchased yet)


So I think that breaks down to:

NMEA Talker = [GPS] [VHF] [AIS] [SEATALK IN]

NMEA Listener=[gps?] [RADAR] [VHF] [VHF2] [AIS] [TILLERPILOT] [WIND?]
[BIDATA?]

SEATALK=[TILLERPILOT(L/T?)] [WIND (L?/T)] [BIDATA (L?/T)] [COMPASS
(T)]

BLUETOOTH = [AXIM X51V] or [LAPTOP]

Do you see a problem with the config? How does the Tillerpilot ST1000
receive steering commands/waypoint data/other data from the PDA that
is transmitting NMEA? That's my main concern; how does the PDA, GPS
and Tillerpilot interact in the above config? I'm assuming I'll be
running the MiniPlex-42BT in hub mode?

Another big question is do I need the ST-30 Fluxgate Compass when I
have the Tillerpilot, as it also contains an internal fluxgate
compass? Does the Tillerpilot output compass data on SEATALK and/or
NMEA?

--
BRENT - The Usenet typo king.
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posted to rec.boats.electronics
Wayne.B
 
Posts: n/a
Default Connecting all the nav instruments together?

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:50:08 -0800, Brent Geery
wrote:

I'm totally confused about how I attach all these nav instruments
together for maximum flexibility.


==========================

When all of this stuff is talking, will you be able to listen? :-)

Assume that it is not all going to work together on day one. Some may
never interface the way you'd really like since you are talking about
a lot of separate stuff from different manufacturers.

Set your priorities. What functions are really important to you?
Start there, get that working, and try adding new interfaces for those
things next most important.

Good luck!

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posted to rec.boats.electronics
Larry
 
Posts: n/a
Default Connecting all the nav instruments together?

Brent Geery wrote in
:

I'm totally confused about how I attach all these nav instruments
together for maximum flexibility. I'm planning on using a
MiniPlex-42BT to multiplex them all together, along with a Dell Axim
X51V PDA and a laptop, both via bluetooth, as a chart plotter using
the FUGAWI Marine ENC Windows and PDA software.


A few notations about this archaic, stupid serial port nonsense NMEA....
Only ONE talker can be on a circuit of up to 16 listeners. More than 16
listeners overloads the talker, most of the time.

So, we buy another box, the multiplexer you know about.....but.....

Only ONE talker can be on each multiplexer input circuit. If a
multiplexer has 4 inputs you get to use 4 talkers, it stores them all
simultaneously and spits out their data statements one-at-a-time to the
listeners. If you want to use 7 talkers and can't find a 7-input
multiplexer, you can hook one multiplexer's output data stream, by
itself, to one input port of a second multiplexer to expand input ports.

Just make sure no pair of wires has more than ONE talker on it or it
ain't gonna happen because archaic NEMA talkers are too stupid to listen
before spitting out data.


I've got:

- Garmin GPS (NMEA Talker (and Listener?) What about Garmin Mode?)


If the Garmin GPS is a chart plotter, it would need to listen for
waypoints from the computer nav software.

- JRC Radar 1500 Mk2 (NEMA Listener)
- VHF Transceiver (NMEA Listener and Talker)


VHF only needs to listen for the GPS fix for its DSC to transmit.

- NASA AIS Engine [NMEA Listener and Talker)
- Backup VHF Transceiver (NMEA Listener)

- Tillerpilot ST1000 (SEATALK Listener (and Talker?))
- Raymarine ST40 Wind (SEATALK Talker only?)
- Raymarine ST40 Bidata (SEATALK Talker only?)
- Raymarine ST30 Fluxgate Compass (SEATALK Talker only) (haven't
purchased yet)


On "Lionheart", we're using a Raymarine RL70CRC color radar
display/chart plotter at the helm. It includes a Seatalk to NMEA
converter you can configure to convert between any statements you like.
We're using the Raymarine Smart Heading Sensor, which also gives us
rate-of-turn from its little gyro sensor. Seatalkers are smarter than
NMEAs so you can just hook 'em all up in parallel and all the talkers
talk to all the listeners. This is just too simple for NMEA to
comprehend, sort of like making the whole damned thing TCP/IP on an
Ethernet throughout the boat at 100 Mhz with its own DHCP server to
automate addressing like your computers on your home network.


- Dell Axim X51V PDA (NMEA Listener (and talker?)) What about Garmin
Format?) -- via Bluetooth


The Dell should hook to an RS-232 level serial port on the multiplexer.
Our Noland multiplexer has a screw terminal RS-232 attachment for the
computer interfacing. RS-422, which is NMEA's archaic system, uses 0
and +5V for 0s and 1s so NMEA manufacturers don't have to provide -12V
DC. RS-232 serial ports on computers runs on -12V (0s) and +12V (1s) so
a grounded line doesn't look like a row of 0s in a cabling problem.
Some RS-232 ports will run on RS-422 levels, but not reliably. You need
a level converter, which should be built into your multiplexer and come
out as a computer port. Of course, we assume you are also using a
laptop computer with the matching ARCHAIC RS-232 serial port on it.
Many new computer have no such port, any more, scrambling that notion.

Bluetooth would probably work if anyone supported it in the marine
environment. NMEA treats new technology like bubonic plague....unless
they can make it proprietary to protect the members' profit margins.
They represent MANUFACTURERS, not boaters. Aboard "Lionheart", being an
Ethernet kinda guy, I opted to convert archaic RS-232 data to TCP/IP
(internet-like) packet data with a box called an RS232 to Ethernet
converter. Here's some current models:
http://www.neteon.net/cat.asp?c=13
These converters act just like a computer on the Ethernet, complete with
DHCP enabled for automatic configuration by a cheap home router. They
also come with special software for the computer called a "virtual
serial port", which is useful on the boat. AS you are only dealing with
one RS-232 port, these guys are fine. They do make them up to 16 RS-232
ports to one Ethernet port, though.

You connect the serial port on the box to the NMEA multiplexer's serial
port output. Then you connect the Ethernet port on the box to a simple,
cheap router to handle all the data routing from one user, the box, to
the computer, the other box. The router automatically assigns IP
address and configures both. Then you install the virtual serial port
on the computer (software). Tell the vsp software to connect to the box
at IP-whatever and cheat the computer into thinking this is COM3: or
whatever com port the computer isn't using. So, now the computer thinks
it's connected to the multiplexer and so doesn't the nav software like
The Cap'n we use on Lionheart.

Oh, a little extra twist. I told you I was a TCP/IP kinda guy...(c;

The router on Lionheart is a Netgear WIRELESS router! It's 802.11g
Wireless, just like any other. So, the laptop doesn't connect to the
router with an Ethernet cable. It connects to the router through its
wireless LAN radio. The virtual serial port software doesn't know any
difference because Windows just tells all software you're connected to
an Ethernet, once the wireless software has connected itself,
automatically, to the router. Now, instead of a few feet of Bluetooth
range where you'd have to be close to the bluetooth source....you have
500' range on Wireless LAN so you can use the computer wherever you
want!

My favorite trick is to take the laptop up to the bow and lay on a
beanbag, Operating the autopilot by remote control from The Cap'n,
wirelessly. All you need, then, are a few slaves to operate the sail
trim back in the cockpit so you can enjoy ACTUALLY SEEING WHERE YOU'RE
GOING on a sailboat under sail...a real treat!

My Captain loves it because he can carry the notebook into his aft cabin
empire and see the whole nav situation from back there between naps.
We've even had TWO computers aboard the boat, one actually navigating
the boat, while a second computer, also running the Cap'n was setup to
receive on the virtual serial port, but had its output turned off so it
became just a monitor computer....listening to that same serial box,
wirelessly, on Ethernet. Of course, on Ethernet, you're limited to 256
computers on the same router. You'd need a switch for more ports...(c;
I see a real boon in this setup with the nav computer at the nav station
and a monitor computer at the helm as a sort of "repeater" so the
helmsman or cockpit watches could have whatever view they liked of their
own Cap'n running in a different picture to their liking....(c;

IF we integrate the AIS data through such an Ethernet scheme, everyone
could also have the "radar" display of AIS ships wherever you'd like,
even sitting on the head!...(c;




- MiniPlex-42BT NMEA Multiplexor (not purchased yet)


So I think that breaks down to:

NMEA Talker = [GPS] [VHF] [AIS] [SEATALK IN]

NMEA Listener=[gps?] [RADAR] [VHF] [VHF2] [AIS] [TILLERPILOT] [WIND?]
[BIDATA?]

SEATALK=[TILLERPILOT(L/T?)] [WIND (L?/T)] [BIDATA (L?/T)] [COMPASS
(T)]

BLUETOOTH = [AXIM X51V] or [LAPTOP]

Do you see a problem with the config? How does the Tillerpilot ST1000
receive steering commands/waypoint data/other data from the PDA that
is transmitting NMEA? That's my main concern; how does the PDA, GPS
and Tillerpilot interact in the above config? I'm assuming I'll be
running the MiniPlex-42BT in hub mode?


I'm worried about the PDA....How are you going to run nav software that
actually has a usable chart on such a tiny screen? Will it be powerful
enough, and have enough memory to be useful? It has no hard disk
storage, no CD drive. Are you going to hold it and the magnifying glass
on one hand and operate winches with the other?

Think laptop....with a big, bright, color screen with proper nav
software and a chart subscription to keep it current. PDAs are toys.


Another big question is do I need the ST-30 Fluxgate Compass when I
have the Tillerpilot, as it also contains an internal fluxgate
compass? Does the Tillerpilot output compass data on SEATALK and/or
NMEA?


Unless you really care that the boat symbol points in the direction of
the bow on the computer nav software while you're sitting still at your
slip...compass data is useless. Once the boat starts moving and GPS can
plot course and speed, the nav software points the little boat symbol in
the right direction, anyways. You don't need navigation at the dock, or
at anchor.

The only reason for the compass is so you can run the tillerpilot in
compass mode. If you automate to a computer nav software running off
GPS data, the compass isn't used to drive the autopilot. The autopilot
steers the boat from the nav software's data stream output. The best
part of that is your autopilot doesn't go steering off crazy just
because someone moved around in the cockpit with a penknife magnet in
their pocket...(c; One boat I fixed complained the compass autopilot
function went crazy at odd times. I took one look and pointed out the
compass fluxgate was directly under the starboard cockpit seat! If
anyone sat down with their keys in their pocket, the stupid autopilot
followed those keys to a new course! When that person got up to refresh
his drink, of course, the autopilot went crazy again as the magnetic
anomoly was missing until the guy sat down again...(c; They wandered
around the Atlantic like that quite a while before I moved their
fluxgate...(c;

  #4   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats.electronics
William Andersen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Connecting all the nav instruments together?

Too technical for me, but I've had several Garmins and the only time I use
the Garmin mode is to work with Garmin software on my PC; when connected to
my radios and radar, it's in NMEA in/NMEA out mode, and usually at a slow
BAUD rate.
I have only one VHF radio connected to my newest Garmin (198C), and it
receives data (date,time,course, speed, lat/long) from the Garmin and sends
received DSC data to the Garmin,where it is plotted.
I keep my GPS 12 in a mount by the helm, and it feeds both my Furuno radar
and another VHF radio (lat/long,course, speed,route/waypoint info). Since
the Garmin is only used to transmit to those two devices, I just spliced the
Garmin wires to feed them.

"Brent Geery" wrote in message
...
I'm totally confused about how I attach all these nav instruments
together for maximum flexibility. I'm planning on using a
MiniPlex-42BT to multiplex them all together, along with a Dell Axim
X51V PDA and a laptop, both via bluetooth, as a chart plotter using
the FUGAWI Marine ENC Windows and PDA software.


I've got:

- Garmin GPS (NMEA Talker (and Listener?) What about Garmin Mode?)
- JRC Radar 1500 Mk2 (NEMA Listener)
- VHF Transceiver (NMEA Listener and Talker)
- NASA AIS Engine [NMEA Listener and Talker)
- Backup VHF Transceiver (NMEA Listener)

- Tillerpilot ST1000 (SEATALK Listener (and Talker?))
- Raymarine ST40 Wind (SEATALK Talker only?)
- Raymarine ST40 Bidata (SEATALK Talker only?)
- Raymarine ST30 Fluxgate Compass (SEATALK Talker only) (haven't
purchased yet)

- Dell Axim X51V PDA (NMEA Listener (and talker?)) What about Garmin
Format?) -- via Bluetooth

- MiniPlex-42BT NMEA Multiplexor (not purchased yet)


So I think that breaks down to:

NMEA Talker = [GPS] [VHF] [AIS] [SEATALK IN]

NMEA Listener=[gps?] [RADAR] [VHF] [VHF2] [AIS] [TILLERPILOT] [WIND?]
[BIDATA?]

SEATALK=[TILLERPILOT(L/T?)] [WIND (L?/T)] [BIDATA (L?/T)] [COMPASS
(T)]

BLUETOOTH = [AXIM X51V] or [LAPTOP]

Do you see a problem with the config? How does the Tillerpilot ST1000
receive steering commands/waypoint data/other data from the PDA that
is transmitting NMEA? That's my main concern; how does the PDA, GPS
and Tillerpilot interact in the above config? I'm assuming I'll be
running the MiniPlex-42BT in hub mode?

Another big question is do I need the ST-30 Fluxgate Compass when I
have the Tillerpilot, as it also contains an internal fluxgate
compass? Does the Tillerpilot output compass data on SEATALK and/or
NMEA?

--
BRENT - The Usenet typo king.



  #5   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats.electronics
Geert Maene
 
Posts: n/a
Default Connecting all the nav instruments together?

Brent Geery wrote:
I'm totally confused about how I attach all these nav instruments
together for maximum flexibility. I'm planning on using a
MiniPlex-42BT to multiplex them all together, along with a Dell Axim
X51V PDA and a laptop, both via bluetooth, as a chart plotter using
the FUGAWI Marine ENC Windows and PDA software.


I've got:

- Garmin GPS (NMEA Talker (and Listener?) What about Garmin Mode?)
- JRC Radar 1500 Mk2 (NEMA Listener)
- VHF Transceiver (NMEA Listener and Talker)
- NASA AIS Engine [NMEA Listener and Talker)
- Backup VHF Transceiver (NMEA Listener)

- Tillerpilot ST1000 (SEATALK Listener (and Talker?))
- Raymarine ST40 Wind (SEATALK Talker only?)
- Raymarine ST40 Bidata (SEATALK Talker only?)
- Raymarine ST30 Fluxgate Compass (SEATALK Talker only) (haven't
purchased yet)

- Dell Axim X51V PDA (NMEA Listener (and talker?)) What about Garmin
Format?) -- via Bluetooth

- MiniPlex-42BT NMEA Multiplexor (not purchased yet)


So I think that breaks down to:

NMEA Talker = [GPS] [VHF] [AIS] [SEATALK IN]

NMEA Listener=[gps?] [RADAR] [VHF] [VHF2] [AIS] [TILLERPILOT] [WIND?]
[BIDATA?]

SEATALK=[TILLERPILOT(L/T?)] [WIND (L?/T)] [BIDATA (L?/T)] [COMPASS
(T)]

BLUETOOTH = [AXIM X51V] or [LAPTOP]

Do you see a problem with the config? How does the Tillerpilot ST1000
receive steering commands/waypoint data/other data from the PDA that
is transmitting NMEA? That's my main concern; how does the PDA, GPS
and Tillerpilot interact in the above config? I'm assuming I'll be
running the MiniPlex-42BT in hub mode?

Another big question is do I need the ST-30 Fluxgate Compass when I
have the Tillerpilot, as it also contains an internal fluxgate
compass? Does the Tillerpilot output compass data on SEATALK and/or
NMEA?

I have a From Raymarine a ST 40 WInd, a Bidate Speed/depht, a ST 1000
autopilot and a Garmin GPS. They all work toghetter with a raymarine
"PC/SeaTalk/NMEA interface Box" it has a PC conection. see
www.raymarine.com.
I'm working on a PC connection with Seaclear II.
Good luck

--
Geert Maene.



  #6   Report Post  
posted to rec.boats.electronics
Wout B.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Connecting all the nav instruments together?


"Brent Geery" wrote in message
...
I'm totally confused about how I attach all these nav instruments
together for maximum flexibility. I'm planning on using a
MiniPlex-42BT to multiplex them all together, along with a Dell Axim
X51V PDA and a laptop, both via bluetooth, as a chart plotter using
the FUGAWI Marine ENC Windows and PDA software.


I've got:

- Garmin GPS (NMEA Talker (and Listener?) What about Garmin Mode?)
- JRC Radar 1500 Mk2 (NEMA Listener)
- VHF Transceiver (NMEA Listener and Talker)
- NASA AIS Engine [NMEA Listener and Talker)
- Backup VHF Transceiver (NMEA Listener)

- Tillerpilot ST1000 (SEATALK Listener (and Talker?))
- Raymarine ST40 Wind (SEATALK Talker only?)
- Raymarine ST40 Bidata (SEATALK Talker only?)
- Raymarine ST30 Fluxgate Compass (SEATALK Talker only) (haven't
purchased yet)

- Dell Axim X51V PDA (NMEA Listener (and talker?)) What about Garmin
Format?) -- via Bluetooth

- MiniPlex-42BT NMEA Multiplexor (not purchased yet)


So I think that breaks down to:

NMEA Talker = [GPS] [VHF] [AIS] [SEATALK IN]

NMEA Listener=[gps?] [RADAR] [VHF] [VHF2] [AIS] [TILLERPILOT] [WIND?]
[BIDATA?]

SEATALK=[TILLERPILOT(L/T?)] [WIND (L?/T)] [BIDATA (L?/T)] [COMPASS
(T)]

BLUETOOTH = [AXIM X51V] or [LAPTOP]

Do you see a problem with the config? How does the Tillerpilot ST1000
receive steering commands/waypoint data/other data from the PDA that
is transmitting NMEA? That's my main concern; how does the PDA, GPS
and Tillerpilot interact in the above config? I'm assuming I'll be
running the MiniPlex-42BT in hub mode?

Another big question is do I need the ST-30 Fluxgate Compass when I
have the Tillerpilot, as it also contains an internal fluxgate
compass? Does the Tillerpilot output compass data on SEATALK and/or
NMEA?

--
BRENT - The Usenet typo king.


Hi,
Have a look here too: http://brookhouseonline.com/nmea_multiplexer.htm
5 input channels, including one for AIS.
If you want an elegant Bluetooth solution for hooking up the multiplexer,
check out this product: http://www.aircable.net/serial.html

Wout



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