Dave Baker wrote:
On 4 Dec 2005 18:05:45 -0800, wrote:

Actually counting fish is very easy. Just as long as a few facts are
known.
1) How do the fish get into the boat?

Trawlers, so nets.

2) How big are the fish? Are you talking 0.25 Kg squid or a 200 Kg
tuna?

This is Asia - basically anything that gets into the net stays in the net,
and goes into the hold. From minnows to marlin. Sorting is done onshore when
the boat gets back to land. In general they are aiming for fish of 10kg
downwards.

But even more important..... WHY do you want to know how to estimate
catch size on other people's boats?

Because the government wants to know so they can stop their fishermen selling
their catch overseas.

Also who is going to use, and for what purpose, is the data being
collected? Are you a NGO, host nation, commercial fishing association,
or associated with a do-good save he the whales group?

Does this change the way it would be done?

By your inability to describe the situation I imagine you have no
commercial fishing experience and also do not understand basic
statistical sampling methods.

Apart from the fact that my father is a commercial fisherman, I agree that I
have little experience in this field. Which is why I am asking questions.

It's not so much of an inability to describe the situation, but a reluctance
to do so as this is a project which has certain sensitivities & even possibly
commercial considerations. I am happy to give information that is pertinent
to the technical problem at hand though.

So help me out here. Why do you want to know how to estimate catch size
of someone else's boat. Do you have the owner/operator's
permission to do that?

I am pretty sure I mentioned this before on a previous post. To stop the
fishermen selling their catch in neighbouring countries as they are using
subsidized fuel, and nobody wants to subsidize fishermen from one country to
have them sell their catch in another country.

Permission - Yes - by law.

Dave

Hi Dave,
Okay now we're getting someplace.

First, try Mecca. These are the scientist:
http://www.afsc.noaa.gov/refm/observers/default.htm

Second, try the observer union. These are the people who actually do
the sampling on board and at shore based plants. They can tell you what
works and what doesn't:
http://www.apo-observers.org/Observe...o_homepage.htm

If you need methods to count fish and monitor vessel movement these are
the two places to go. If they do not have an answerer it don't exist.

Below are a few vague thoughts that came to mind that may help.

Do what the US does. License boats. Impose a miniscule "landing fee"
(tax/pound of fish). The tax pays the wages of the poor sole placed on
the boat to monitor movement and eye estimate catch size. Give the poor
sap a hand held gps. Bingo.

How about this. Put some black box gizmo (design left to the electronic
wizards here) that sends vessel position back to home base or easier
yet, simply records vessel movements for play back later. Hey, do they
make a cheep GPS that records course traveled? Stick it in a sealed box
with external antenna. If crew tampering is evident bust the boat for a
few Boks. No problem there except if your fishing boat is meeting a MS
for clandestine offloads.

So it sounds as though you simply want to make sure the boats bring
their catch home.
Problem one: how does the USA monitor vessel movement/location? USCG
uses planes and cutters. I think the 378' Morgenthau was patrolling the
East Pacific for a while. Does your host nation have a navy? Do not
forget onboard observers. There are electronic methods that cost less
than a C130 or a P3.

How much do you have to spend for the program? What resources are
available to deploy?

Oh, here is another way. Check out the December 2005 issue of National
Fisherman. Just got mine in the mail last week. On the back cover
you'll see an ad for some trawl technology that's pretty cool. Its
called ""trawl sonar." Been around since the mid 1980s It shows
what's going in the net and will "pop and egg" when certain
points in the codend (bag) are full. The sending units are called
"suit cases" by the guys who use it and "trawl information
systems" by the marketing people who sell it. It has a "third
wire" to transmit data to a screen in the wheel house. Here is a
little history. How do you tell if a boat is trawling? Yes, green over
white but......... Its also got two wires leading into the water over
the stern that is attached to a net that is flying along. Now this new
technology shows up in the 80s but nobody knows what to do with this
other wire that the trawl sonar uses to send the data back to the
house. Hey, lets hang it off the gantry and call it the ..........
Third Wire. The new stuff is of course wireless.

There are also non technical ways to insure compliance but would need
someone knowledgably with local cultural beliefs-values-attitudes and
morays. Maybe a cultural anthologist or ex Peace Corp Volunteer could
help. There may be a simple "cultural" answerer. So why do the
fishers feel compelled to sell their catch else where? Okay the
obvious........ better price or maybe? Gotta find the correct
Antecedent to that under the table Behavior. Then maybe you can add a
Consequence. Its as simple as (A-B-C).

The fish counting is not a problem. Just have the boats brail, dump,
suck, pike the buggers onto a scale on the dock. The real issue is
compliance to local law. Or in other words, how do you secure a border
and monitor vessel movement?

So my third question now is......How much do you have to spend?

Kinda like asking how much does a boat cost?

Bob.