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VHF radio recommendation
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"Wayne.B" wrote On 11 Mar 2005 05:35:59 -0800, wrote: I would suggest stepping up enough to get DSC. ============================= Is there a test process for VHF/DSC? My latest boat came with two DSC capable ICOMs but I have no idea if the feature is even hooked up, let alone working. Also, I have no idea what vessel ID is programmed, if any. There is no license or test required to be a voluntarily-equipped DSC-GMDSS vessel, the category which most recreational boaters fall into. But you must register an MMSI (Maritime Mobile Service Identifier) number to YOUR vessel. The number (if any) that was in the used radio is not valid any longer. Also, a U.S. vessel that plans to dock (or communicate) at a non-US port of call, must have a restricted radiotelephone operators license. This good for life (of the vessel you own and operate) and also does not involve any exam. The license covers vhf, hf, gmdss and radars with no description of equipments required. It will include applying for an MMSI to be used internationally. Changing the MMSI on a radio can be done by the owner, providing you have the owner's operation manual which provides these instructions. Many radio manufacturers provide manuals online. BOAT-US has an 800 # for you to call where an experienced associate can walk you through the procedures involved. That number is: 1-800-566-1536 (working hours). Or you can simply walk-in to any BOAT-US store with your radio(s) and do the same. Also be advised that BOAT-US provided registration of MMSI (free to all who apply) does NOT register your MMSI for international voyages. Americans must apply to the FCC for an MMSI to be used in conjunction with a restricted operators license and international travel. Best regards, Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
In article 5UpYd.61628$7z6.35203@lakeread04,
"Jack Painter" wrote: Also, a U.S. vessel that plans to dock (or communicate) at a non-US port of call, must have a restricted radiotelephone operators license. This good for life (of the vessel you own and operate) and also does not involve any exam. The license covers vhf, hf, gmdss and radars with no description of equipments required. It will include applying for an MMSI to be used internationally. Again, jackie is extending information that he doesn't understand....... HEY JACK, How about you "GET A CLUE before you confuse folks with your uninformed information. First: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be an operator. Second: A US Flagged vessel, if it is to operate outside US Territorial Waters, AND communicate with non-US Coast Stations, must have a valid Ship Radio Station License issued by the FCC. Third: If, and only if, the vessel has fitted, only VHF Radios and, or, a Marine S or Xband Radar, and does not communicated with non-US Coast Stations, it MAY be covered by the Blanket License issued by the FCC, which covers all such vessels in perpituity, and does not require any action on the owners, or operators parts as far as licensing is concerened. Fourth: If, and only if, the vessel is operating under the Blanket License, an Operator Permit is NOT Required to operate the fitted equipment. Fifth: If, and only if, the vessel is operating under the Blanket License, the owner/operator MAY request a MMSI from the dually appointed Voluntary MMSI Registrant, and that MMSI will be recorded against the Documentation Number (either US or State) of the Vessel. Sixth: When a vessel is issued a Ship Radio Station License the FCC will issue a MMSI along with the Callsign, which is recorded against the Documentation Number (either US or State) of the Vessel. Now that we got that straight....... Carry on....... Bruce in alaska who wishes that USCG would refrain from distributing uninformed information....... -- add a 2 before @ |
"Bruce in Alaska" slid off his stool and shouted: "Jack Painter" wrote: Also, a U.S. vessel that plans to dock (or communicate) at a non-US port of call, must have a restricted radiotelephone operators license. This good for life (of the vessel you own and operate) and also does not involve any exam. The license covers vhf, hf, gmdss and radars with no description of equipments required. It will include applying for an MMSI to be used internationally. Again, jackie is extending information that he doesn't understand....... HEY JACK, How about you "GET A CLUE before you confuse folks with your uninformed information. First: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be an operator. I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow up or go back to your barstool. Second: A US Flagged vessel, if it is to operate outside US Territorial Waters, AND communicate with non-US Coast Stations, must have a valid Ship Radio Station License issued by the FCC. Here you go mixing up licenses again, forgetting the title and topic of this newsgroup is RECREATIONAL boating. Only a Restricted Operators permit is required for a recreational boater who wants to visit a foreign port. His boat can remain "covered by the rule" which means no station license for VHF-only, and the ROP covers his carriage of the radio, whether he uses it OR NOT, in a foreign port. Third: If, and only if, the vessel has fitted, only VHF Radios and, or, a Marine S or Xband Radar, and does not communicated with non-US Coast Stations, it MAY be covered by the Blanket License issued by the FCC, which covers all such vessels in perpituity, and does not require any action on the owners, or operators parts as far as licensing is concerened. That's called being "covered by the rule" and does not permit a vessel to dock in a foreign port, which is why it's another of your useless comments that serves only the interests of your strange ego. Fourth: /snipped unadulterated blabber .. Fifth: /snipped unadulterated blabber Sixth: /snipped unadulterated blabber Now that we got that straight....... Carry on....... Bruce in alaska who wishes that USCG would refrain from distributing uninformed information....... "Straight" is a concept difficult to apply to your posts. The information I posted is current, accurate, and applies to the questions posted by Wayne B. The rules have changed since the time you claimed to have once been a field-rep for the FCC. Try to remember the "recreational" concept of the newsgroup, please. Best regards, Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be an operator. I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow up or go back to your barstool. // Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia I don't think that's right Jack. An operators license follows the operator. Brian W |
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:31:06 GMT, Brian Whatcott wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter" wrote: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be an operator. I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow up or go back to your barstool. // Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia I don't think that's right Jack. An operators license follows the operator. Brian W That's what I thought too...unless the rules have changed since I got mine. Norm B |
"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ... On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter" wrote: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be an operator. I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow up or go back to your barstool. // Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia I don't think that's right Jack. An operators license follows the operator. Brian W You're Right. On the FCC website; If you have a RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT, you should retain it for future use since it is authorized for your lifetime. It's the station license, applies to equipment on specific boat. It is only when applying for that license, as I explained earlier before Bruce's tirade, can a boater obtain an FCC-issued MMSI, which registers his MMSI internationally. BOAT-US continues to fulfill the MMSI requirements of all domestic-only voyagers. Their volunteer-provided database, while useable by the USCG, is unfortunately not compatible with either the FCC's or ITU's. So much for no good deed going unpunished. Jack |
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:48:50 -0800, engsol
wrote: On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:31:06 GMT, Brian Whatcott wrote: On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter" wrote: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be an operator. I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow up or go back to your barstool. // Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia I don't think that's right Jack. An operators license follows the operator. Brian W That's what I thought too...unless the rules have changed since I got mine. Norm B Bruce is 100% correct on all he posted. Jack has a habit of becoming an expert every time he reads a blurb of something whether he understands it or not. A restricted operators license has nothing to do with a vessel at all. It only has to do with an individual. The holder of that restricted license can operate a radio on any vessel that qualifies. It is a lifetime permit for the individual. The ship license is only good for the ship and the owner it was issued to. It is not a lifetime license and needs to be renewed every 10 years, unless that has recently changed. If the vessel is sold to a new owner the ship license becomes invalid. It does not stay with the vessel or the old owner. The new owner must obtain a new ship license if he is to operate the radios with a need. Regards Gary |
"Gary Schafer" wrote Bruce is 100% correct on all he posted. Jack has a habit of becoming an expert every time he reads a blurb of something whether he understands it or not. A restricted operators license has nothing to do with a vessel at all. It only has to do with an individual. The holder of that restricted license can operate a radio on any vessel that qualifies. It is a lifetime permit for the individual. The ship license is only good for the ship and the owner it was issued to. It is not a lifetime license and needs to be renewed every 10 years, unless that has recently changed. If the vessel is sold to a new owner the ship license becomes invalid. It does not stay with the vessel or the old owner. The new owner must obtain a new ship license if he is to operate the radios with a need. Regards Gary Gary, perhaps you want to weigh-in on the new Restricted Operators Permit application. It requires a STATED vessel or aircraft name and ID. If that changes, an amended license (but with no additional fee) must be filed, resulting in a new license according to the instructions on the application. http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605main.pdf Wrt Bruce's comments about MMSI, it is incorrect to assume that the "duly appointed voluntary registrant" will record the vessel against US or (state) records. I explained what a predicament BOAT-US got themselves into when they took the lead in volunteering to record MMSI data for US boaters. FCC, and possibly ITU, although it wasn't their problem, never provided specific database requirements for BOAT-US recordkeeping. About a half million registrations later, it became apparent that FCC and ITU would not recognize BOAT-US issued MMSI's. That's not an issue for US-only boaters who want their VHF DSC-capable radios to have an MMSI registered to them. The FCC was not ready and had no provision for issuing voluntarily-equipped boats (exempt and "licensed under the rule" an MMSI, so BOAT-US took on a massive voluntary undertaking to make it possible. Now, the old databases are not compatible, and boaters can either reapply or accept that their old MMSI's cannot be used internationally. This might not have been a big issue in Alaska, but it sure was for boaters all over Northwestern US border, the Great Lakes, and Florida. Regards, Jack |
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In article 1cHYd.62360$7z6.6536@lakeread04,
"Jack Painter" wrote: I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow up or go back to your barstool. Wrong again Jackie..... the Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit is a PERSONAL Operators License and does NOT go with any Radio Station License, one may, or may not have issued to a vessel or aircraft they may own. It is also REQUIRED to be in the possession of any Pilot who makes an International Flight, or who flys outside US airspace and under a Non-US Flight Control Center. It is NOT tied to any vessel or aircraft, and is a Lifetime Permit, for that reason. You may change vessels or aircraft and Station Licenses for them, but you NEVER need to change your Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit. Here you go mixing up licenses again, forgetting the title and topic of this newsgroup is RECREATIONAL boating. Only a Restricted Operators permit is required for a recreational boater who wants to visit a foreign port. His boat can remain "covered by the rule" which means no station license for VHF-only, and the ROP covers his carriage of the radio, whether he uses it OR NOT, in a foreign port. Jackie, you need a bit of a refresher in your International Radio Law, son.. If a US Flagged vessel is fitted with a VHF radio, and Licensed under the Blanket License Rule, and leaves US Waters and enters a foreign port, it is as if he had NO Authorization for the fitted Radio. Said radio would not be covered under International Law to transmit under any circiumstance, baring a Distress Transmission. It doesn't matter if it is a "recreational boater" or not. I am not "mixing up" anything, just presenting the FACTS of International Maritime Radio Law, which you seem to not be able to grasp. A Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit is NOT a Station License, and confers no Authority to Fit, or imply Legality of Carriage, that requires a Station License. Station and Operator Licenses are two DIFFERENT things. How hard can this be to graps? That's called being "covered by the rule" and does not permit a vessel to dock in a foreign port, which is why it's another of your useless comments that serves only the interests of your strange ego. This has absolutly nothing to do with "dock in a foreign port" in anyway. A US Flagged vessel may certainly "dock in a foreign port" with a fitted VHF Radio that would be Licensed in US waters under the Blanket License Rule, the Operator just could not legally make any Transmissions from inside the waters of another country, or communicate with any station, once he entered the waters of another country. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? Actually, in some countries, it is a CRIME to have a Radiotelephone fitted, and no Internationally Recognized License for such a Radio, and they maybe impounded by the Government, whos water your in. The Rules have not changed, since the last time I reveiwed the IMO Annual Meeting Minutes. I was never a "field-rep", in fact I was Field Agant dually sworn, with the same Oath that you took, upon entering the USCG, no claim, just FACT. I still have my Badge, and cancelled Credentials, as do all Retired and RIF'd Field Agants. Bruce in alaska -- Bruce (semiretired powderman & exFCC Field Inspector for Southeastern Alaska) add a 2 before @ Bruce Gordon * Debora Gordon R.N. Bruce's Trading Post P.O. Box EXI Excursion Inlet South Juneau, Alaska 99850 Excursion Inlet, Alaska 99850 www.btpost.net www.99850.net |
"Bruce Gordon" wrote /snip/ Wrong again Jackie..... the Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit is a PERSONAL Operators License and does NOT go with any Radio Station License, one may, or may not have issued to a vessel or aircraft they may own. It is also REQUIRED to be in the possession of any Pilot who makes an International Flight, or who flys outside US airspace and under a Non-US Flight Control Center. It is NOT tied to any vessel or aircraft, and is a Lifetime Permit, for that reason. You may change vessels or aircraft and Station Licenses for them, but you NEVER need to change your Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit. Allright Bruce, if that is so, then please explain why the FCC requires specific ship information on the application form (605 main) for an RR license, and why same instructions include use of the same form for later modifying ships (or aircraft) information (no fee required for the mod) ? Sure looks like the "operator" is tied to a specific vessel.. The 605 form is not a ship's license application form, so what possible reason could there be for including the vessel data (and requiring it's modification if changed) on the RR application, if the RR permit was not tied to a particular vessel? And why in the supplemental information forms required with 605,, there is included a temporary restricted radiotelephone operator permit that uses the vessels documentation number as the callsign? If the vessel changes (sold, replaced with new boat, etc), do these instructions not specifically require amending the restricted radiotelephone operators permit? I read that they do, and it looks plain to me that if you applied for an RR for international voyages (the only reason for having it on a pleasure/voluntary vessel per the form itself), then you must maintain current vessel information related to that RR permit, and file a modification when the vessel changes.. Temporary permit: http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605f.pdf Instructions for Temporary Operator Permit for the Ship, Aircraft, Restricted Radiotelephone, Restricted Radiotelephone-Limited Use, and GMRS Radio Services Do Not Use if Applying for Ship Exemption DO NOT MAIL THIS SCHEDULE TO THE FCC - KEEP IT FOR YOUR RECORDS Form FCC 605, Schedule F, is a supplementary schedule for use with the FCC Quick-Form Application for Authorization in the Ship, Aircraft, Amateur, Restricted and Commercial Operator, and the General Mobile Radio Services, FCC 605 Main Form. This schedule is to be used as a Temporary Operator Permit for the Ship, Aircraft, Restricted Radiotelephone, Restricted Radiotelephone-Limited Use, and GMRS Radio Services while your application is being processed by the FCC. In order for this Temporary Operator Permit to be valid, you must complete the FCC 605 Main Form and the appropriate Additional Data Schedule and submit them to the FCC. Main form-605 for Restricted Operator http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605main.pdf Best regards, Jack |
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:23:07 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: "Gary Schafer" wrote Bruce is 100% correct on all he posted. Jack has a habit of becoming an expert every time he reads a blurb of something whether he understands it or not. A restricted operators license has nothing to do with a vessel at all. It only has to do with an individual. The holder of that restricted license can operate a radio on any vessel that qualifies. It is a lifetime permit for the individual. The ship license is only good for the ship and the owner it was issued to. It is not a lifetime license and needs to be renewed every 10 years, unless that has recently changed. If the vessel is sold to a new owner the ship license becomes invalid. It does not stay with the vessel or the old owner. The new owner must obtain a new ship license if he is to operate the radios with a need. Regards Gary Gary, perhaps you want to weigh-in on the new Restricted Operators Permit application. It requires a STATED vessel or aircraft name and ID. If that changes, an amended license (but with no additional fee) must be filed, resulting in a new license according to the instructions on the application. http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605main.pdf Read the heading on form 605. It is a multiple use form. It is used for several different type license. For the restricted radiotelephone license you also need schedule E. The only time a restricted license is tied to a ship is if you are an alien applying for a restricted operator license. It is good for only the ship you applied for and or for a specific voyage. That is entirely different from the regular restricted radiotelephone permit, which has nothing to do with any ship, aircraft or call sign. Regards Gary |
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: The information I posted is current, accurate, and applies to the questions posted by Wayne B. ================================= Actually not. My question was, "How can I ensure that my DSC radio is actually hooked up and working, i.e, is the position information and identifier being sent correctly?" The licensing information and issuance of an identifier is an entirely different topic. |
"Wayne.B" wrote Actually not. My question was, "How can I ensure that my DSC radio is actually hooked up and working, i.e, is the position information and identifier being sent correctly?" The licensing information and issuance of an identifier is an entirely different topic. You posted these questions: "Is there a test process for VHF/DSC? My latest boat came with two DSC capable ICOMs but I have no idea if the feature is even hooked up, let alone working. Also, I have no idea what vessel ID is programmed, if any." -- Testing the distress-signal feature of a vhf radio with the "Distress" button on front panel is never permitted. The radio has other dsc features which your owner's manual will describe, and vary from model to model. You can operate your dsc-capable radio according to it's individual capabilities with other dsc-capable radios, according to their capabilities. Several different versions of dsc are on the water. All this is covered in the owner's manual. -- I did remind you that " you must register an MMSI (Maritime Mobile Service Identifier) number to YOUR vessel. The number (if any) that was in the used radio is not valid any longer." and "Changing the MMSI on a radio can be done by the owner, providing you have the owner's operation manual which provides these instructions. Many radio manufacturers provide manuals online. BOAT-US has an 800 # for you to call where an experienced associate can walk you through the procedures involved. That number is: 1-800-566-1536 (working hours). Or you can simply walk-in to any BOAT-US store with your radio(s) and do the same" -- Is this clear what your first steps should be, ie: obtaining an owner's manual, determining what your radio is capable of, then registering an MMSI via phone and programming or letting a BOAT-US associate do it for you, then hooking up your GPS according to the instruction manuals, and operating your radio in accordance with it's instruction manuals? Jack |
In article ,
Wayne.B wrote: Actually not. My question was, "How can I ensure that my DSC radio is actually hooked up and working, i.e, is the position information and identifier being sent correctly?" The licensing information and issuance of an identifier is an entirely different topic. If you knew someone with a ROSS DSC Vhf from a few years back, it will display the data transmitted from a DSC Radio. This could be done with the test radio on a "Dummy Load" so as to not radiate a False Distress Signal. Or, just about any full GMDSS Suite could display the data transmitted. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
In article m0jZd.63327$7z6.25479@lakeread04,
"Jack Painter" wrote: You posted these questions: "Is there a test process for VHF/DSC? My latest boat came with two DSC capable ICOMs but I have no idea if the feature is even hooked up, let alone working. Also, I have no idea what vessel ID is programmed, if any." -- Testing the distress-signal feature of a vhf radio with the "Distress" button on front panel is never permitted. The radio has other dsc features which your owner's manual will describe, and vary from model to model. You can operate your dsc-capable radio according to it's individual capabilities with other dsc-capable radios, according to their capabilities. Several different versions of dsc are on the water. All this is covered in the owner's manual. -- I did remind you that " you must register an MMSI (Maritime Mobile Service Identifier) number to YOUR vessel. The number (if any) that was in the used radio is not valid any longer." and "Changing the MMSI on a radio can be done by the owner, providing you have the owner's operation manual which provides these instructions. Many radio manufacturers provide manuals online. BOAT-US has an 800 # for you to call where an experienced associate can walk you through the procedures involved. That number is: 1-800-566-1536 (working hours). Or you can simply walk-in to any BOAT-US store with your radio(s) and do the same" -- Is this clear what your first steps should be, ie: obtaining an owner's manual, determining what your radio is capable of, then registering an MMSI via phone and programming or letting a BOAT-US associate do it for you, then hooking up your GPS according to the instruction manuals, and operating your radio in accordance with it's instruction manuals? Jack What Jack really meant is: "Read your Radio's Manual" Brevity is not Jacks strong suite, and he still doesn't 'Get" what you really wanted in your original question. Oh well, there are a lot of things that Jack doesn't "Get"........ Me one wonders if Jack actually "Gets" anything....... |
In article re4Zd.62623$7z6.38138@lakeread04,
"Jack Painter" wrote: Allright Bruce, if that is so, then please explain why the FCC requires specific ship information on the application form (605 main) for an RR license, and why same instructions include use of the same form for later modifying ships (or aircraft) information (no fee required for the mod) ? Sure looks like the "operator" is tied to a specific vessel.. The 605 form is not a ship's license application form, so what possible reason could there be for including the vessel data (and requiring it's modification if changed) on the RR application, if the RR permit was not tied to a particular vessel? And why in the supplemental information forms required with 605,, there is included a temporary restricted radiotelephone operator permit that uses the vessels documentation number as the callsign? If the vessel changes (sold, replaced with new boat, etc), do these instructions not specifically require amending the restricted radiotelephone operators permit? I read that they do, and it looks plain to me that if you applied for an RR for international voyages (the only reason for having it on a pleasure/voluntary vessel per the form itself), then you must maintain current vessel information related to that RR permit, and file a modification when the vessel changes.. Temporary permit: http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605f.pdf Instructions for Temporary Operator Permit for the Ship, Aircraft, Restricted Radiotelephone, Restricted Radiotelephone-Limited Use, and GMRS Radio Services Do Not Use if Applying for Ship Exemption DO NOT MAIL THIS SCHEDULE TO THE FCC - KEEP IT FOR YOUR RECORDS Form FCC 605, Schedule F, is a supplementary schedule for use with the FCC Quick-Form Application for Authorization in the Ship, Aircraft, Amateur, Restricted and Commercial Operator, and the General Mobile Radio Services, FCC 605 Main Form. This schedule is to be used as a Temporary Operator Permit for the Ship, Aircraft, Restricted Radiotelephone, Restricted Radiotelephone-Limited Use, and GMRS Radio Services while your application is being processed by the FCC. In order for this Temporary Operator Permit to be valid, you must complete the FCC 605 Main Form and the appropriate Additional Data Schedule and submit them to the FCC. Main form-605 for Restricted Operator http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605main.pdf Best regards, Jack You know Jackieboy, if you could actually read, it would save you, from folks hanging the "Dufus Lable" on you, so often......... See Gary S's post..... He explains it to you in "Small Words" that you MAY be able to comprehend. Yes, I acknowledge that the FCC Form 605 is a monsterious cludge of a form, and beyond what meer mortals can decphyer, but Jeeeze Louise, Jack they write the instructions for 6th Graders....... I get paid lots of money to help folks find their way through the FCC Licensing System, but not ususally for Resrticted Radiotelephone Operator Permits. If you really can't make your way thru that filing, I guess I could actully entertain the idea of doing one for you Pro Bono, seeing as you are "Intelectually challenged", and since it is a Lifetime Permit I would only have to do it once. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
In article ,
Gary Schafer wrote: Read the heading on form 605. It is a multiple use form. It is used for several different type license. For the restricted radiotelephone license you also need schedule E. The only time a restricted license is tied to a ship is if you are an alien applying for a restricted operator license. It is good for only the ship you applied for and or for a specific voyage. That is entirely different from the regular restricted radiotelephone permit, which has nothing to do with any ship, aircraft or call sign. Regards Gary Hi, again Gary, I just finished a post to jackieboy, refering him to your above post, which sets out in "Small Words", the answer to his Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit question. I hope that he will be able to comprehend the answer, and let this thread die a fast death. It seems that navigating FCC Form 605 is just beyond his abilities, and from past cases it would seem that the 605 can be confusing to alot of the boating world. I appreciate you efforts to interpret form 605 to those folks. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Bruce,
We both made errors in interpreting the law here, as described on the FCC website and the CFR. to wit: "Bruce Gordon" wrote "Jack Painter" wrote: Here you go mixing up licenses again, forgetting the title and topic of this newsgroup is RECREATIONAL boating. Only a Restricted Operators permit is required for a recreational boater who wants to visit a foreign port. His boat can remain "covered by the rule" which means no station license for VHF-only, and the ROP covers his carriage of the radio, whether he uses it OR NOT, in a foreign port. (I was wrong, the Station license is indeed also required) Jackie, you need a bit of a refresher in your International Radio Law, son.. If a US Flagged vessel is fitted with a VHF radio, and Licensed under the Blanket License Rule, and leaves US Waters and enters a foreign port, it is as if he had NO Authorization for the fitted Radio. Said radio would not be covered under International Law to transmit under any circiumstance, baring a Distress Transmission. (You were wrong, according to the rules, voluntary equipped or not, vessels with radios may not enter or dock foreign port w/o RO & SL.) --------------------------- That's called being "covered by the rule" and does not permit a vessel to dock in a foreign port This has absolutly nothing to do with "dock in a foreign port" in anyway. A US Flagged vessel may certainly "dock in a foreign port" with a fitted VHF Radio that would be Licensed in US waters under the Blanket License Rule, the Operator just could not legally make any Transmissions from inside the waters of another country, or communicate with any station, once he entered the waters of another country. (You were wrong, the rules clearly describe "dock in foreign port" and "enter foreign port" as the requirement for a RO in addition to SL. Only "sailing in international waters and not comunicating with a foreign station" are exempt.) Shown he http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html#SEC2 WHO NEEDS A SHIP STATION LICENSE? You do not need a license to operate a marine VHF radio, radar, or EPIRBs aboard voluntary ships operating domestically. The terms "voluntary" and "domestic" are defined below. WHAT IS DOMESTIC OPERATION? Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations. Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands) a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit as described in Section III. DO I NEED A RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT? If you plan to dock in a foreign port (e.g., Canada or the Bahamas) or if you communicate with foreign coast or ship stations, you must have a RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT (sometimes referred to by boaters as an "individual license") in addition to your ship radio station license. Section IV outlines the procedure for obtaining a permit. However, if (1) you merely plan to sail in domestic or international waters without docking in any foreign ports and without communicating with foreign coast stations, and (2) your radio operates only on VHF frequencies, you do not need an operator permit. ** note the multiple references to "travel to foreign port", and "dock in foreign port". And the form-605 instructions insists that all fields under "ship" be completed, with no written exemption (or "N/A") for the vessel name/documentation if application for an RO only. While that may be allowed from your experience, the form does not leave that option to the applicant. I would be happy to have your help when I need an FCC license. Jack |
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:32:18 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: Is this clear what your first steps should be, ie: obtaining an owner's manual, determining what your radio is capable of, then registering an MMSI via phone and programming or letting a BOAT-US associate do it for you, then hooking up your GPS according to the instruction manuals, and operating your radio in accordance with it's instruction manuals? =========================== It's very clear thanks, but it doesn't really address my concern. My concern is that there doesn't seem to be anyway to test it and see if it's actually working as intended. My 40+ years of experience with things electronic has lead me to believe that nothing should be assumed to work unless it gets tested periodically. |
Jack you are not correct. A third Class is for the person
and it is good for any radio use. I had to have one when I was on a Police Dept. before I could use either the station radio or the radios in the patrol cars and it go where ever I go. All it is is a license that says you are familial with the rules on talking on a radio as to language as to what you can say and what you can not. "Jack Painter" wrote in message news:1cHYd.62360$7z6.6536@lakeread04... "Bruce in Alaska" slid off his stool and shouted: "Jack Painter" wrote: Also, a U.S. vessel that plans to dock (or communicate) at a non-US port of call, must have a restricted radiotelephone operators license. This good for life (of the vessel you own and operate) and also does not involve any exam. The license covers vhf, hf, gmdss and radars with no description of equipments required. It will include applying for an MMSI to be used internationally. Again, jackie is extending information that he doesn't understand....... HEY JACK, How about you "GET A CLUE before you confuse folks with your uninformed information. First: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be an operator. I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow up or go back to your barstool. Second: A US Flagged vessel, if it is to operate outside US Territorial Waters, AND communicate with non-US Coast Stations, must have a valid Ship Radio Station License issued by the FCC. Here you go mixing up licenses again, forgetting the title and topic of this newsgroup is RECREATIONAL boating. Only a Restricted Operators permit is required for a recreational boater who wants to visit a foreign port. His boat can remain "covered by the rule" which means no station license for VHF-only, and the ROP covers his carriage of the radio, whether he uses it OR NOT, in a foreign port. Third: If, and only if, the vessel has fitted, only VHF Radios and, or, a Marine S or Xband Radar, and does not communicated with non-US Coast Stations, it MAY be covered by the Blanket License issued by the FCC, which covers all such vessels in perpituity, and does not require any action on the owners, or operators parts as far as licensing is concerened. That's called being "covered by the rule" and does not permit a vessel to dock in a foreign port, which is why it's another of your useless comments that serves only the interests of your strange ego. Fourth: /snipped unadulterated blabber .. Fifth: /snipped unadulterated blabber Sixth: /snipped unadulterated blabber Now that we got that straight....... Carry on....... Bruce in alaska who wishes that USCG would refrain from distributing uninformed information....... "Straight" is a concept difficult to apply to your posts. The information I posted is current, accurate, and applies to the questions posted by Wayne B. The rules have changed since the time you claimed to have once been a field-rep for the FCC. Try to remember the "recreational" concept of the newsgroup, please. Best regards, Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
"Wayne.B" wrote "Jack Painter" wrote: Is this clear what your first steps should be, ie: obtaining an owner's manual, determining what your radio is capable of, then registering an MMSI via phone and programming or letting a BOAT-US associate do it for you, then hooking up your GPS according to the instruction manuals, and operating your radio in accordance with it's instruction manuals? =========================== It's very clear thanks, but it doesn't really address my concern. My concern is that there doesn't seem to be anyway to test it and see if it's actually working as intended. My 40+ years of experience with things electronic has lead me to believe that nothing should be assumed to work unless it gets tested periodically. Understandably. And aside from finding equipment such as Bruce mentioned that could "read" the output sent to a dummy-load, there is no way to know if your distress button will really take a valid output from your GPS, add it to the programmed MMSI, and transmit it on Ch-70. That's the way it is, and if you can come up with a convincing argument to change that, which won't overload the whole system, by all means do so. When HF-DSC was tested daily by the rule, it overwhelmed the whole HF-DSC system worldwide. It took ITU a long time to amend that to require weekly testing, and several months later, the system is still inundated with testing. There is a fair amount of "testing" VHF-DSC that goes on anyway, and unless the boater or ship who did it acknowledges it was a test (almost never happens), the USCG must devote significant time and effort before it can finally be classified as an uncorrelated mayday and cancelled. While it is unauthorized use of a transmitter to make any kind of live VHF-DSC distress testing, the cost to the USCG in search time when the sender does not acknowledge his "test" can be substantial. I don't know of a case in 5th District where anyone was prosecuted even for not acknowledging their "test", and we often do find them. So at least admitting to a "test" would be an honorable thing to do, and probably not result in any repercussions unless it became a habit. Jack |
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:02:50 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote "Jack Painter" wrote: snippage It's very clear thanks, but it doesn't really address my concern. My concern is that there doesn't seem to be anyway to test it and see if it's actually working as intended. My 40+ years of experience with things electronic has lead me to believe that nothing should be assumed to work unless it gets tested periodically. Understandably. And aside from finding equipment such as Bruce mentioned that could "read" the output sent to a dummy-load, there is no way to know if your distress button will really take a valid output from your GPS, add it to the programmed MMSI, and transmit it on Ch-70. That's the way it is, and if you can come up with a convincing argument to change that, which won't overload the whole system, by all means do so. Most VHF DSC radios will show the position received from the local GPS if they have not received a DSC call, so that will check that the GPS is correctly connected to the radio. If you have friends with a DSC radio, you can exchange routine DSC calls and position requests, which should test most functions, without needing to send an actual distress alert. -- Peter Bennett VE7CEI email: peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca GPS and NMEA info and programs: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter/index.html Newsgroup new user info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq |
"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , Wayne.B wrote: Actually not. My question was, "How can I ensure that my DSC radio is actually hooked up and working, i.e, is the position information and identifier being sent correctly?" The licensing information and issuance of an identifier is an entirely different topic. If you knew someone with a ROSS DSC Vhf from a few years back, it will display the data transmitted from a DSC Radio. This could be done with the test radio on a "Dummy Load" so as to not radiate a False Distress Signal. Or, just about any full GMDSS Suite could display the data transmitted. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ I spent a lot of time about a year ago calling the various technical support people at Standard Horizon, ICOM, SEA, etc., about proper service shop testing of DSC. What I found out was the "factory" service guys use two radios, dummy loaded, to talk to each other, just as an on the air chat between two DSC radios would do. The Distress function may not be done dummy loaded only. The USCG has issued direction that a shield room or shield box be used in addition to the dummy load for the recreational type radios. Remember, dummy loads are not perfect and plastic box radios do radiate also. The bottom line...there is not proper way for a recreational boat owner to test the Distress button function, other than built in self test non-radiating functions some radios have built in. The DSC function itself can be tested by talking to another DSC, MMSI registered station. The GPS location shows on the display of modern DSC radio. The GPS location received from another vessel can be shown on a chart plotter that have the NMEA OUTPUT from the DSC radio connected to a plotter input (only top of the line recreational radios have that feature). I have no actual experience with the $25K full GMDSS test sets used on the commercial high seas equipment. 73 Doug K7ABX |
In article .net,
"Doug" wrote: "Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , Wayne.B wrote: Actually not. My question was, "How can I ensure that my DSC radio is actually hooked up and working, i.e, is the position information and identifier being sent correctly?" The licensing information and issuance of an identifier is an entirely different topic. If you knew someone with a ROSS DSC Vhf from a few years back, it will display the data transmitted from a DSC Radio. This could be done with the test radio on a "Dummy Load" so as to not radiate a False Distress Signal. Or, just about any full GMDSS Suite could display the data transmitted. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ I spent a lot of time about a year ago calling the various technical support people at Standard Horizon, ICOM, SEA, etc., about proper service shop testing of DSC. What I found out was the "factory" service guys use two radios, dummy loaded, to talk to each other, just as an on the air chat between two DSC radios would do. The Distress function may not be done dummy loaded only. The USCG has issued direction that a shield room or shield box be used in addition to the dummy load for the recreational type radios. Remember, dummy loads are not perfect and plastic box radios do radiate also. The bottom line...there is not proper way for a recreational boat owner to test the Distress button function, other than built in self test non-radiating functions some radios have built in. The DSC function itself can be tested by talking to another DSC, MMSI registered station. The GPS location shows on the display of modern DSC radio. The GPS location received from another vessel can be shown on a chart plotter that have the NMEA OUTPUT from the DSC radio connected to a plotter input (only top of the line recreational radios have that feature). I have no actual experience with the $25K full GMDSS test sets used on the commercial high seas equipment. 73 Doug K7ABX Very good post Doug.... I would add, that part of the SOLAS Inspoection of any GMDSS Suite is the testing of the Distree Signal Transmitter RF Output Data Stream to prove that the required data is correct and encoded correctly. this happens into a Dummy Load, and NOT during Silent Periods. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
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