| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
IC-751 for onboard use
Dear All
Does anyone have any experience/comments on the suitability of the Icom IC-751 for use on board both for ham and marine SSB work - I believe they can easily be opened to transmit outside the ham bands. Is there any way to use for email by SSB? Thanks |
If you have a General or above ham license, you can use winlink 2000
stations and airmail client for email. If you are not a ham there is sailmail available for a $250 annual fee. You need a SSB tranceiver and a Pactor TNC. Kelton W4IND wrote: Dear All Does anyone have any experience/comments on the suitability of the Icom IC-751 for use on board both for ham and marine SSB work - I believe they can easily be opened to transmit outside the ham bands. Is there any way to use for email by SSB? Thanks |
|
I believe that most newer ham rigs are now type accepted for
Marine SSB use. I know that the SGC SG-2000 was the only one for a long time but I'm pretty sure there are others. Not sure about the IC-751 specifically. Easy enough to find out though. Doug, k3qt "Me" wrote in message ... In article .com, wrote: Dear All Does anyone have any experience/comments on the suitability of the Icom IC-751 for use on board both for ham and marine SSB work - I believe they can easily be opened to transmit outside the ham bands. Is there any way to use for email by SSB? Thanks Ok, are you ready for the inevitable FLAME, for suggesting that it is OK to use a NON-TYPE ACCEPTED Radio on Frequencies that Require TYPE ACCEPTED Radio Equipment? Better get you Asbestos Suit ON, as they are sure to be coming your way. Me who knows better than to ask "THAT" Stupid question around here..... |
Thanks for these. I am in the process of obtaining a 'full' ham
licence. I am aware that the set is not type-approved for marine SSB. Its principle function will be for ham use - but it would seem foolish not to have the option to access both sets of frequencies should the need arise. I was really hoping for information along the lines of, 'its fandoogle is very sensitive to damp and it will immediately loose its transmodulatory capability in a marine environment'. (I am aware of its potential for brain death due to its volatile ROM) |
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: I believe that most newer ham rigs are now type accepted for Marine SSB use. I know that the SGC SG-2000 was the only one for a long time but I'm pretty sure there are others. Not sure about the IC-751 specifically. Easy enough to find out though. Doug, k3qt Actually, that is not the case. The SG-2000 was a commercial MF/HF Radio that some hams actually got conned into buying. "Peeair" still can't design HIS way out of a wet paper bag. I can't think of ONE radio sold into the Ham market, that is TYPE ACCEPTED for commercial use. The design criteria is different for commercial radios, and to be TYPE ACCEPTED they can't have a Continious Tuning VFO type operational system. Me |
"Me" wrote in message ... In article , "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: I believe that most newer ham rigs are now type accepted for Marine SSB use. I know that the SGC SG-2000 was the only one for a long time but I'm pretty sure there are others. Not sure about the IC-751 specifically. Easy enough to find out though. Doug, k3qt Actually, that is not the case. The SG-2000 was a commercial MF/HF Radio that some hams actually got conned into buying. "Peeair" still can't design HIS way out of a wet paper bag. I can't think of ONE radio sold into the Ham market, that is TYPE ACCEPTED for commercial use. The design criteria is different for commercial radios, and to be TYPE ACCEPTED they can't have a Continious Tuning VFO type operational system. I know what it means. Perhaps someone else has a definitive answer but I'm sure that someone in a position to know confirmed that some ham rigs are type accepted. May have been an ICOM rep at one of the boat shows. I seem to remember that the rationale was that digital synthesized rigs are plenty stable enough to be relied upon to openate on frequency. Me |
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: I seem to remember that the rationale was that digital synthesized rigs are plenty stable enough to be relied upon to openate on frequency. That's not the point at all. It is, that commercial Type Accepted radios are all channelized frequencies as specified by the ITU, and therefore the frequency control system must be channelized with just ITU Frequencies avalable for selection, in order to meet Type Acceptance. That is just one of the technical differences between the two radio types. Stability hasn't been the issue for about 10 years. IMD on the otherhand IS a very big issue for Type Acceptance, and most Ham type radios can't meet the IMD spec, or even get in the same ballpark. Me |
|
|
Hello Larry,
You might want to qualify that statement. Ham rigs tend to use finer tuning steps in their VFOs than type-accepted marine radios (with the general frequency transmit option) use in their VFOs, but it is just a matter of degree. Both radios technically have VFOs that allow them to tune between channels. As you know, there is absolutely nothing in an "open", type-accepted Icom marine transceiver that would prevent anyone from transmitting on any frequency covered by the radio. And of course, there is the SGC 2000. We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Larry W4CSC wrote: No radio with a VFO will get type acceptance for commercial use. It's how the FCC keeps unqualified, non-technical operators away from other services..... |
I'm not familiar with the "full" ham class :)
wrote in message oups.com... Thanks for these. I am in the process of obtaining a 'full' ham licence. I am aware that the set is not type-approved for marine SSB. Its principle function will be for ham use - but it would seem foolish not to have the option to access both sets of frequencies should the need arise. I was really hoping for information along the lines of, 'its fandoogle is very sensitive to damp and it will immediately loose its transmodulatory capability in a marine environment'. (I am aware of its potential for brain death due to its volatile ROM) |
My ICOM-M710 can be tuned off frequency on the Marine SSB
channels. Not sure why that might be type accepted but a ham rig doing the same thing is not. That's the general logic from the folks that told me that many hams rigs are essentually type accepted. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "chuck" wrote in message ... Hello Larry, You might want to qualify that statement. Ham rigs tend to use finer tuning steps in their VFOs than type-accepted marine radios (with the general frequency transmit option) use in their VFOs, but it is just a matter of degree. Both radios technically have VFOs that allow them to tune between channels. As you know, there is absolutely nothing in an "open", type-accepted Icom marine transceiver that would prevent anyone from transmitting on any frequency covered by the radio. And of course, there is the SGC 2000. We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Larry W4CSC wrote: No radio with a VFO will get type acceptance for commercial use. It's how the FCC keeps unqualified, non-technical operators away from other services..... |
In article ,
Larry W4CSC wrote: Most ham radios can tell when your local AM stations are out of tolerance, now...(c; My Yaesu FT-990 with the high stability master oscillator doesn't vary off WWV on 15 Mhz over a couple of cycles in a year! This has absolulty nothing to do with the IMD Spec for Type Acceptance. IMD is not Frequency Stability. Like I stated before Frequency Stability hasn't been the probelm for 15 years. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
In article , chuck
wrote: We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance" by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........ Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue...... -- add a 2 before @ |
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: My ICOM-M710 can be tuned off frequency on the Marine SSB channels. Not sure why that might be type accepted but a ham rig doing the same thing is not. That's the general logic from the folks that told me that many hams rigs are essentually type accepted. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista Type Acceptance is a "Legal Designation" that states that this particular Radio Model has passed the required Testing and Design Criteria to meet that requirement. This is done by the OEM, and they submit the results of that testing, along with two actual production Radios to the "Office of the Chief Engineer" for testing in his Lab. "essentually type accepted" is an OEM's cop-out, for I don't want to spend the MONEY it would take to get this model into compliance, and so I just sell it into a non-Type Acceptance market, and save myself the grief of proving that the radio is as good as I say it is. Yea, there are a lot of the "Type Acceptance" spec that most ham radios can pass, with no problem, but there are a few important ones that they just can't make, because they aren't designed to make that spec. IMD is one of these Biggies. Operational Control Design is another requirement that keeps these ham radios from being acceptable. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Hello Bruce,
Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the law then? Appreciate the info, Bruce. Regards, Chuck Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , chuck wrote: We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance" by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........ Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue...... |
Hello again Bruce,
Just a quick clarification of my post of a minute ago. It is Icom who sells these open radios for use on marine frequencies. If they are not type accepted, is Icom in violation of FCC rules? Thanks. Chuck chuck wrote: Hello Bruce, Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the law then? Appreciate the info, Bruce. Regards, Chuck Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , chuck wrote: We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance" by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........ Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue...... |
It is interesting that the SG-2000 is type accepted and is "open"
yet an "open" ICOM is not. I don't really believe this is true. Doug, k3qt s/v CAllista "chuck" wrote in message ... Hello Bruce, Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the law then? Appreciate the info, Bruce. Regards, Chuck Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , chuck wrote: We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance" by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........ Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue...... |
Doug,
The Icom M710 (since 2002) and the M802 both have the ham bands as standard. krj Doug Dotson wrote: It is interesting that the SG-2000 is type accepted and is "open" yet an "open" ICOM is not. I don't really believe this is true. Doug, k3qt s/v CAllista "chuck" wrote in message ... Hello Bruce, Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the law then? Appreciate the info, Bruce. Regards, Chuck Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , chuck wrote: We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance" by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........ Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue...... |
In the case of ICOM, I suspect that was a marketing move and a
good one. Paying an extra $200 for the ham enabled version was silly, especially since the method of enabling the ham bands was just a simple software upload. The cloning cable was simple to make and the required software became generally available for nothing. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "krj" wrote in message ... Doug, The Icom M710 (since 2002) and the M802 both have the ham bands as standard. krj Doug Dotson wrote: It is interesting that the SG-2000 is type accepted and is "open" yet an "open" ICOM is not. I don't really believe this is true. Doug, k3qt s/v CAllista "chuck" wrote in message ... Hello Bruce, Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the law then? Appreciate the info, Bruce. Regards, Chuck Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , chuck wrote: We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance" by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........ Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue...... |
But it is type accepted for both marine and ham.
krj Doug Dotson wrote: In the case of ICOM, I suspect that was a marketing move and a good one. Paying an extra $200 for the ham enabled version was silly, especially since the method of enabling the ham bands was just a simple software upload. The cloning cable was simple to make and the required software became generally available for nothing. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "krj" wrote in message ... Doug, The Icom M710 (since 2002) and the M802 both have the ham bands as standard. krj Doug Dotson wrote: It is interesting that the SG-2000 is type accepted and is "open" yet an "open" ICOM is not. I don't really believe this is true. Doug, k3qt s/v CAllista "chuck" wrote in message ... Hello Bruce, Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the law then? Appreciate the info, Bruce. Regards, Chuck Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , chuck wrote: We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance" by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........ Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue...... |
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:40:33 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote: This has absolulty nothing to do with the IMD Spec for Type Acceptance. IMD is not Frequency Stability. ===================================== Bruce, does the IMD spec speak to audio clarity, off channel interference or both? |
In article , chuck
wrote: Hello Bruce, Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the law then? Appreciate the info, Bruce. Regards, Chuck Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , chuck wrote: We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance" by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........ Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue...... Lets make this very clear. The SGC-2000 IS Type Accepted and therefor can be used legally in both the Marine and Ham Radio Services, as long as it is UNMODIFIED from the original factory configuration. Any other Marine Radio that is Type Accepted can be used in Marine or Ham Radio Service, as long as it is UNMODIFIED from it's original factory configuration. If a Marine Radio that is Type Accepted is then subsequently MODIFIED by anyone other than the OEM, it is NOT considered Type Accepted any longer, by the FCC, as it is now MODIFIED, and therefor must go thru the Type Acceptance Procedure again to qualify for Type Acceptance. Any MODIFICATION to the radio that changes it's basic configuration or Operating Charactoristics would invalidate the Type Acceptance for that radio. "Opening" a radio is considered such a MODIFACTION, as it requires one to actually take the covers off and change something mechanically inside the radio, itself, thus altering the FACTORY OEM Configuration. There are ways around this Type Acceptace modifacation issue. Mostly it is thru Undocumented Control Features that are built in to the User Interface that "open" the radio without any MODIFICATION to it. The SEA Radios all have a "TEST Mode" that is entered into via a Special Key Sequence from the front panel. This is allowable, as the Test Mode is not a MODIFICATION of the radio, but an "Undocumented Feature" as the radio is still in "FACTORY" OEM condition. There, NOW that should be VERY Clear for anyone who can read, and comprehend, the King's English. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: It is interesting that the SG-2000 is type accepted and is "open" yet an "open" ICOM is not. I don't really believe this is true. Doug, k3qt s/v CAllista "chuck" wrote in message ... Hello Bruce, Don't mean to be picking but I'd like to be very clear on this. Are you saying that all of the owners of "open" Icom "type accepted" radios who operate these radios on marine frequencies are operating illegally because the radios are "open"? Are you certain that the type acceptance does not include an open version? Is the SGC 2000 being sold in violation of the law then? Appreciate the info, Bruce. Regards, Chuck Bruce in Alaska wrote: In article , chuck wrote: We probably need a more carefully worded statement of just what type acceptance means in this regard (VFOs). Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Regards, Chuck Yes I am stating that as a "Fact", that "opened" versions of "Type Accepted" Radios are not still Type Accepted. The owner, or operator, is not allowed to change ANY Major Operational Charactoristic of a "Type Accepted" radio and still have a "Valid Claim" of Type Acceptance. This is so stated in the FCC's Rules that detail what is allowed and what spec's are required to meet "Type Acceptance" by the FCC Chief Engineer, and his Lab. Just doing the required testing of a radio, takes a couple of months, for MF/HF SSB Radios, and that doesn't include any Modifications required to get the radio into compliance. Been there, Done that, and it AIN't EASY........ Bruce in alaska who has worked BOTH sides of this issue...... You can believe anything that you want, but the facts are against you. Me |
In article ,
krj wrote: But it is type accepted for both marine and ham. krj Ham Radios are NOT Type Accepted. They just need to be in compliance with 47CFRPart 15, like all other RF Radiation Sources. That is to say Ham Radios, but Ham Radio Amplifiers in the MF/HF Range MUST be Type Accepted to be sold in the USA. Bruce in Alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
In article ,
Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:40:33 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote: This has absolulty nothing to do with the IMD Spec for Type Acceptance. IMD is not Frequency Stability. ===================================== Bruce, does the IMD spec speak to audio clarity, off channel interference or both? IMD = Intermodulation Distortion A Spec for Transmitters, and it is a very HARD Spec to design for, and PROVE, via Type Acceptance Testing for General Coverage (1.8 - 30 Mhz) transmitters. There is a significant variation in parts used in the post Power Amplifier Filtering Systems, of these radios, and to get the required IMD Spec, for all these various filters and bands, for all the production radios isn't an easy trick, especially for the radios that you MUST submit to the FCC Lab for Type Acceptance. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 19:50:19 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote: In article , Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:40:33 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote: This has absolulty nothing to do with the IMD Spec for Type Acceptance. IMD is not Frequency Stability. ===================================== Bruce, does the IMD spec speak to audio clarity, off channel interference or both? IMD = Intermodulation Distortion A Spec for Transmitters, and it is a very HARD Spec to design for, and PROVE, via Type Acceptance Testing for General Coverage (1.8 - 30 Mhz) transmitters. There is a significant variation in parts used in the post Power Amplifier Filtering Systems, of these radios, and to get the required IMD Spec, for all these various filters and bands, for all the production radios isn't an easy trick, especially for the radios that you MUST submit to the FCC Lab for Type Acceptance. Bruce in alaska A little clarification: Intermod distortion is usually refered to as unwanted inband products produced by the mixing of different rf frequencies that are closely spaced (audio produced). Mixing together that produce unwanted signals within the audio pass band and in adjacent channels. The main contributor to this type of distortion is non linearity in one or more RF power amplifier stages. This type of distortion can cause rough sounding audio on a signal. The bigger problem is that it causes splatter on adjacent channels. The post amplifier filters do nothing for this type of intermod reduction. They do however reduce second and third harmonics of the wanted signal which is another strict requirement of commercial type accepted radios. There can also be other unwanted mixing products produced in a radio as the result of other types of intermod. These are commonly referred to as spurious signals. These usually result from non linear stages mixing signals to produce signals significantly removed from the wanted signal. The output filter may or may not help with this type of unwanted product depending on where it falls. These can be tough to get rid of at times. The spec for commercial type accepted radios is tougher on this also. Regards Gary |
chuck wrote in :
And of course, there is the SGC 2000. Yeah, but SGC doesn't count because you can't keep one of them out of the shop long enough to be a problem....(c; Just stirring the pot. Every one I've seen just sucked. |
chuck wrote in :
Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Hmm....Sorry I didn't see this sooner. We had Riley Hollingsworth, Chief Council for Amateur Radio of the FCC Enforcement Division at our hamfest last weekend. I could have put this question to him. My feeling is that any radio that will transmit out-of-band for a particular service PROBABLY is no longer acceptable in the eyes of the FCC, especially radios designed to be operated by non-technical operators.....taxi drivers, firemen, cops, boaters, etc. The entire reason the radios are type accepted this way is to prevent these radios from interfering with other services they are not licensed to transmit on. I do, however, think all Marine HF radios should be channlized in such a way that they CAN transmit on the ham radio marine defacto net channels, for use in emergencies, such as 14.300. The Icom M-802 has this channel, and others, in the ham bands but will not transmit on them until you open the transmitter up, probably in violation of some FCC regs. Mr Hollingsworth's speech was most interesting at the hamfest. Ham radio's greatest threat, right now, is Broadband Over Powerline interference, which just wipes out whole ham bands in the HF spectrum from use anywhere it has been implemented. This should also be of interest to boaters in distress as ham stations monitoring the maritime ham nets won't be able to hear your distress calls over the racket from the local power company broadband internet provider. How stupid and awful. They zap a cable operator if his coax radiates, but not some big bribing power company conglomerate. Go figure....follow the money? |
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in
: 'm not familiar with the "full" ham class :) That's one that operates on more frequencies than from 26.9 to 28.9 Mhz....(c; It usually also means the station is less than 1.5KW, too! The head ARRL tester, who also gives GROL tests, here, used to be a 10KW CB operator....They're not all bad, after being "turned"....(c; |
The SGC-2000 IS Type Accepted and therefor can be used legally in both
the Marine and Ham Radio Services, as long as it is UNMODIFIED from the original factory configuration. Any other Marine Radio that is Type Accepted can be used in Marine or Ham Radio Service, as long as it is UNMODIFIED from it's original factory configuration. If a Marine Radio that is Type Accepted is then subsequently MODIFIED by anyone other than the OEM, it is NOT considered Type Accepted any longer, by the FCC, as it is now MODIFIED, and therefor must go thru the Type Acceptance Procedure again to qualify for Type Acceptance. Any MODIFICATION to the radio that changes it's basic configuration or Operating Charactoristics would invalidate the Type Acceptance for that radio. "Opening" a radio is considered such a MODIFACTION, as it requires one to actually take the covers off and change something mechanically inside the radio, itself, thus altering the FACTORY OEM Configuration. Not all that clear. The ICOM M-710 is "opened" by uploading software mods. Are you saying that if these mods are uploaded by the factory or a dealer then it is still Type Accepted, but if I do it myself then it is not? BTW, your shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Better have it checked by a qualified technician :) Doug, k3qt s/v Callista |
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... chuck wrote in : And of course, there is the SGC 2000. Yeah, but SGC doesn't count because you can't keep one of them out of the shop long enough to be a problem....(c; I have a friend that has been cruising now for 7 years and has had no problems with his SG-2000. Go figure. Just stirring the pot. Every one I've seen just sucked. You should lay off the pot. The one I had worked very well. But I only had it for a short time before I sold it. Doug. k3qt s/v Callista |
BOP is a terrible idea! Just shows how our colleges are graduating
idiot EEs. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... chuck wrote in : Or are you suggesting that "open" versions of the type-accepted marine radios are no longer type-accepted? Hmm....Sorry I didn't see this sooner. We had Riley Hollingsworth, Chief Council for Amateur Radio of the FCC Enforcement Division at our hamfest last weekend. I could have put this question to him. My feeling is that any radio that will transmit out-of-band for a particular service PROBABLY is no longer acceptable in the eyes of the FCC, especially radios designed to be operated by non-technical operators.....taxi drivers, firemen, cops, boaters, etc. The entire reason the radios are type accepted this way is to prevent these radios from interfering with other services they are not licensed to transmit on. I do, however, think all Marine HF radios should be channlized in such a way that they CAN transmit on the ham radio marine defacto net channels, for use in emergencies, such as 14.300. The Icom M-802 has this channel, and others, in the ham bands but will not transmit on them until you open the transmitter up, probably in violation of some FCC regs. Mr Hollingsworth's speech was most interesting at the hamfest. Ham radio's greatest threat, right now, is Broadband Over Powerline interference, which just wipes out whole ham bands in the HF spectrum from use anywhere it has been implemented. This should also be of interest to boaters in distress as ham stations monitoring the maritime ham nets won't be able to hear your distress calls over the racket from the local power company broadband internet provider. How stupid and awful. They zap a cable operator if his coax radiates, but not some big bribing power company conglomerate. Go figure....follow the money? |
"Me" wrote in message ... In article , "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: I believe that most newer ham rigs are now type accepted for Marine SSB use. I know that the SGC SG-2000 was the only one for a long time but I'm pretty sure there are others. Not sure about the IC-751 specifically. Easy enough to find out though. Doug, k3qt Actually, that is not the case. The SG-2000 was a commercial MF/HF Radio that some hams actually got conned into buying. "Peeair" still can't design HIS way out of a wet paper bag. I can't think of ONE radio sold into the Ham market, that is TYPE ACCEPTED for commercial use. The design criteria is different for commercial radios, and to be TYPE ACCEPTED they can't have a Continious Tuning VFO type operational system. Me "Peeair" has been a Silent Key for over a year, so he won't be trying much designing in this world anymore. 73 Doug K7ABX |
In article . net,
"Doug" wrote: "Me" wrote in message ... In article , "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: I believe that most newer ham rigs are now type accepted for Marine SSB use. I know that the SGC SG-2000 was the only one for a long time but I'm pretty sure there are others. Not sure about the IC-751 specifically. Easy enough to find out though. Doug, k3qt Actually, that is not the case. The SG-2000 was a commercial MF/HF Radio that some hams actually got conned into buying. "Peeair" still can't design HIS way out of a wet paper bag. I can't think of ONE radio sold into the Ham market, that is TYPE ACCEPTED for commercial use. The design criteria is different for commercial radios, and to be TYPE ACCEPTED they can't have a Continious Tuning VFO type operational system. Me "Peeair" has been a Silent Key for over a year, so he won't be trying much designing in this world anymore. 73 Doug K7ABX Oh, Darn, Now who am I going to dump on, when I "Rant" about SGC???? I wonder who their Chief Engineer is now? Maybe Finn Christiansen? Me |
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: Not all that clear. The ICOM M-710 is "opened" by uploading software mods. Are you saying that if these mods are uploaded by the factory or a dealer then it is still Type Accepted, but if I do it myself then it is not? BTW, your shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Better have it checked by a qualified technician :) Doug, k3qt s/v Callista Geeez Doug, What does it take for you to understand, here? The software that is running in the radio, IS part of the Operational Interface, and if it is different than what was submitted to the FCC during the Type Acceptance Proceedure, and different than the software that was in the two submitted Representative Radios, then it is considered a MODIFICATION by the FCC and would incalidate the Type Acceptance of that radio when subsequently loaded in the radio by ANYONE, even the OEM. The Radio isn't the same, when the different software is loaded, unless that software was included in the Original, or Subsequent Type Acceptance Proceedure by the OEM. You can't modify the radio, in ANY substatial way after Type Acceptance has been granted, and still have that Type Acceptance be Valid. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
On 2005-02-10 05:31:55 +1100, Bruce in Alaska said:
In article , "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: Not all that clear. The ICOM M-710 is "opened" by uploading software mods. Are you saying that if these mods are uploaded by the factory or a dealer then it is still Type Accepted, but if I do it myself then it is not? BTW, your shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Better have it checked by a qualified technician :) Doug, k3qt s/v Callista Geeez Doug, What does it take for you to understand, here? The software that is running in the radio, IS part of the Operational Interface, and if it is different than what was submitted to the FCC during the Type Acceptance Proceedure, and different than the software that was in the two submitted Representative Radios, then it is considered a MODIFICATION by the FCC and would incalidate the Type Acceptance of that radio when subsequently loaded in the radio by ANYONE, even the OEM. The Radio isn't the same, when the different software is loaded, unless that software was included in the Original, or Subsequent Type Acceptance Proceedure by the OEM. You can't modify the radio, in ANY substatial way after Type Acceptance has been granted, and still have that Type Acceptance be Valid. Bruce in alaska -- Bruce, don't be too hard on Doug. This is a perception thing. Generally people don't see software as the same thing as hardware. It is somehow different because it is "just a file of 1's and 0's". As more and more equipment is mushware (hardware and software combined to give a reconfigurable device) that perception will have to change. Rather than call it software if we were to call it firmware (which it may be) then most people would consider it as tied to the hardware and see it in the same light. And yes, the firmware and hardware combination is type approved as a whole entity. Theoretically a new release of the firmware would need to be certified as well but I expect the FCC as a matter of convenience does not require a retest on each new release of the firmware. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
How about an answer for a change. IS THE ICOM-M710 WITH THE
ICOM SUPPLIED SOFTWARE UPDATE TO ENABLE HAM BANDS TYPE ACCEPTED? IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN M710 PURCHASED WITH THE MOD DIFFERENT THAN A RIG THAT HAD THE MOD DONE LATER? I haven't a clue what ICOM submitted to the FCC. It doesn;t seem to appear in the manual. Can you wrap your head around this question? Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message ... In article , "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: Not all that clear. The ICOM M-710 is "opened" by uploading software mods. Are you saying that if these mods are uploaded by the factory or a dealer then it is still Type Accepted, but if I do it myself then it is not? BTW, your shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Better have it checked by a qualified technician :) Doug, k3qt s/v Callista Geeez Doug, What does it take for you to understand, here? The software that is running in the radio, IS part of the Operational Interface, and if it is different than what was submitted to the FCC during the Type Acceptance Proceedure, and different than the software that was in the two submitted Representative Radios, then it is considered a MODIFICATION by the FCC and would incalidate the Type Acceptance of that radio when subsequently loaded in the radio by ANYONE, even the OEM. The Radio isn't the same, when the different software is loaded, unless that software was included in the Original, or Subsequent Type Acceptance Proceedure by the OEM. You can't modify the radio, in ANY substatial way after Type Acceptance has been granted, and still have that Type Acceptance be Valid. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Cut me some slack John. I've been an EE and SE for 30 years specializing
mostly in embedded systems. I know the difference between hardware, software, formware and underware :) Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "John Proctor" wrote in message news:2005021007410416807%lost@nowhereorg... On 2005-02-10 05:31:55 +1100, Bruce in Alaska said: In article , "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: Not all that clear. The ICOM M-710 is "opened" by uploading software mods. Are you saying that if these mods are uploaded by the factory or a dealer then it is still Type Accepted, but if I do it myself then it is not? BTW, your shift key seems to be malfunctioning. Better have it checked by a qualified technician :) Doug, k3qt s/v Callista Geeez Doug, What does it take for you to understand, here? The software that is running in the radio, IS part of the Operational Interface, and if it is different than what was submitted to the FCC during the Type Acceptance Proceedure, and different than the software that was in the two submitted Representative Radios, then it is considered a MODIFICATION by the FCC and would incalidate the Type Acceptance of that radio when subsequently loaded in the radio by ANYONE, even the OEM. The Radio isn't the same, when the different software is loaded, unless that software was included in the Original, or Subsequent Type Acceptance Proceedure by the OEM. You can't modify the radio, in ANY substatial way after Type Acceptance has been granted, and still have that Type Acceptance be Valid. Bruce in alaska -- Bruce, don't be too hard on Doug. This is a perception thing. Generally people don't see software as the same thing as hardware. It is somehow different because it is "just a file of 1's and 0's". As more and more equipment is mushware (hardware and software combined to give a reconfigurable device) that perception will have to change. Rather than call it software if we were to call it firmware (which it may be) then most people would consider it as tied to the hardware and see it in the same light. And yes, the firmware and hardware combination is type approved as a whole entity. Theoretically a new release of the firmware would need to be certified as well but I expect the FCC as a matter of convenience does not require a retest on each new release of the firmware. -- Regards, John Proctor VK3JP, VKV6789 S/V Chagall |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:11 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com