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On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 01:04:36 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: In the interest of safe boating, I encourage anyone who is contemplating coastal cruising to contact their local USCG Group well in advance of the trip, and ask them for the estimated area of VHF and 2182 khz coverage along the route that they plan to take. An EPIRB is an important safety device in any cruising vessels inventory, but it cannot replace vital voice communications. ================================== Jack, does the USCG respond to "radio checks" on HF frequencies, and if so, what frequencies would you recommend? |
Radio checks on VHF are certainly discouraged. Asking for one
generally attracts a fairly nasty canned response. One has to wonder how the CG helps the average boater determine the operability of their VHF rig. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 01:04:36 -0500, "Jack Painter" wrote: In the interest of safe boating, I encourage anyone who is contemplating coastal cruising to contact their local USCG Group well in advance of the trip, and ask them for the estimated area of VHF and 2182 khz coverage along the route that they plan to take. An EPIRB is an important safety device in any cruising vessels inventory, but it cannot replace vital voice communications. ================================== Jack, does the USCG respond to "radio checks" on HF frequencies, and if so, what frequencies would you recommend? |
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote Thank You! A great and sensible answer! And I agree that the squelch doesn't work all that well on SSB. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "Me" wrote in message ... In article , "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: I don't know the actual answer to this, but it seems to me that the CG has clustered its monitoring stations for HF/MF along the coasts. What is the rationale behind this? It pretty much limits comms to groundwave in the covered areas. It would seems that a few stations spread out around the country would vastly expand coverage via skywave. Is it because the CG is limited in it's jusisdiction and can't establish stations inland? One of the advantages of using the ham bands is that station are stread out all over the world. At any given time day or night some station either via groundwave or skywave is going to be listening. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista It is because the USCG only deals with "Certain" Comms capability, so any skywave comms which depend on what the E and F layers are doing and what the GeoMagnetic Index is at the moment, aren't figured in. That is also why MF was basically given up as a Maritime Comms System when the switch to SSB from AM happened, by the USCG. Oh, the "Official Line" is that they have a 24/7 Watch on 2812 Khz, but in the REAL World, and not Jack's Universe, Most of those MF Receivers have the volume turn down, because the Operators can't deal with the white noise, when trying to hear something on one of the HF Receivers. Been that way for MANY years, even if Jack doesn't acknowledge it. Some of the best FCC Maritime Monitoring that was ever done was from the old Grand Island, Nebraska, Station....... Me Are you still interested in answers to your questions, or would you two just rather continue your back-slapping stories? Your replies to each other sound pretty cozy, and I don't want to barge in between your barstools while the two of you solve the world's problems. For the rest of the group still following G here is my universe: 1. "Squelch" is NEVER adjusted on any USCG guard receiver, VHF, MF, or HF. This applies equally to every Boat Station, Group, Sector, Activity, Communication Station and Communication Area Master Station. Anyone not drunk will also understand the following: 2. Volume is NEVER turned down, as was foolishly suggested above. Lets be serious for a moment. During critical SAR comms, volume will be turned UP on affected systems, this will have the same effect as turning others "down". That is not a long term condition, and SSB receivers are in a separate area from the VHF consoles anyway. This is something some of you could observe if you asked for a tour of a Group watchstanding system. 3. Boat Stations do NOT have SSB capability, their AOR is always within VHF range. 4. Some small patrol boats DO have SSB capability, namely all new 47' MLBs's which systematically replace the aging 41' patrol boats. Some 41's also have SSB. All aircraft have VHF/MF/HF systems. 5. Most Groups (or "Sectors" as they are transitioning to) and Activities have multiple towers (called "High Sites" ). Location of these high-sites normally allows significant overlap of the adjoining Group/Sector's AOR. 6. There are still areas of the Coastal-Continental United States that have small gaps in VHF coverage. Maine and Florida used to be the last ones on the East coast reporting this problem (there may be others we are not aware of). USCG AUX in Florida remedied that state's problem with volunteer funded, erected and maintained towers and repeater systems in the thousand islands area of SW Florida. 7. Rescue-21 when fully implemented, will maintain full VHF coverage in all areas, and between 20-40 miles seaward. The first Group to have this system completed is adjacent to me, on the Eastern Shore of Virginia. Even with Rescue-21 up and running there, that Group NOW has full MF-DSC-GMDSS capability on 2187.5 khz and of course monitors 2182 khz (the IMO-regulated adjoining voice channel to 2mhz-DSC) on a 24/7 basis, just as all USCG Groups do. 8. Each of a Group's several high-sites now has their own set of VHF receivers and transmitters. Group watchstanders monitor a guard receiver speaker from EACH high site, all playing "white noise" all the time. 9. The SSB/MF/HF systems of every GroupSector/Activity serves many other purposes than just guarding 2182 khz, which is required by International treaty for declared Sea Area A-2 (the range between VHF and HF shore coverage of guard frequencies). IMO regulations are beyond the scope of this discussion, but I will be happy to try to elaborate some that relate to ship to shore communications later. 9. Automatic Direction Finding equipment with display on computer-screen charts is selectable from all or individual high-sites. 10. Digital recording devices capture 100% of all incoming traffic to USCG Group receivers. 11. Auto-alarms received on 2182 khz (that are NOT during the testing-periods allowed) occur up to several times a week. In no case that I can remember, has the pleasure boat, fishing vessel or commercial ship that sounded them ever "cancelled" with apologies. Callouts and urgent marine information broadcasts across wide areas result. 12. Auto-alarms received on VHF-DSC Ch-70 (156.525 mhz) with no acknowledgement or cancellation occur at least weekly. Testing of VHF-DSC auto-alarms is illegal, so I guess it's no surprise that most don't acknowledge. I have heard a commercial fishing captain call us to say "the darn thing just went off". He was DF'd and hunted-down before he acknowledged this. It cost him nothing to apologize yet cost the Coast Guard an hour of SAR-callouts, boat-team launch, preparation for aircraft launch, etc. 13. Valid MAYDAY calls for USCG SAR-response are received on 2182 khz as the first communication used on average of once every two weeks or so along the Eastern seaboard. 14. HF is the ONLY 24hr skywave-reliable SSB system in use. MF is only for short range (20-200 miles), and only intended as a bridge between VHF line of sight and HF skywave. This doesn't stop us from completing hours of SAR-case communications exclusively on 2182 khz as long as it remains successful. Hope this clears some of the fog spreading from various barstool-scuttlebutt. Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
"Wayne.B" wrote On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 01:04:36 -0500, "Jack Painter" wrote: In the interest of safe boating, I encourage anyone who is contemplating coastal cruising to contact their local USCG Group well in advance of the trip, and ask them for the estimated area of VHF and 2182 khz coverage along the route that they plan to take. An EPIRB is an important safety device in any cruising vessels inventory, but it cannot replace vital voice communications. ================================== Jack, does the USCG respond to "radio checks" on HF frequencies, and if so, what frequencies would you recommend? Hi Wayne, USCG always responds to radio checks. And as Doug offered though, on VHF it is indeed strongly discouraged, and that becomes your "radio check". Channel 9 is allocated for both calling/hailing and as an alternate distress frequency (ship-to-ship only) in most areas now. This was done to alleviate the congestion in busy areas on Ch-16. It is also part of an experiment to move ALL calling/hailing from Ch-16 to Ch-9, leaving Ch-16 for urgency and distress only. Ch-9 is where ship to ship or ship to shore radio checks should take place. Radio operating procedures for VHF-marine do state that no "any station" type radio checks should ever be made. I paraphrased that so you would understand that calling the "USCG" is just like making an any-station call. We don't know if you are in distress, an urgency, safety issue, which Coast Guard unit is requested, etc. All of the above are valid reasons for just sayng "USCG", but doing that for a radio check in congested areas is NOT. Now if you called a SPECIFIC Coast Guard Group or Station, asking to switch to their wkg frequency for radio check, they should accomodate you in a courteous fashion, unless something else urgent is going on with their unit. On HF: Since HF duplex calling channels are no longer guarded (Jan-1-2005), and instead the associated simplex voice channels for 4,6,8, and 12 meg DSC-GMDSS are, I am not sure if that makes them the place for a radio check with USCG. It hasn't happened to me yet and I have not seen guidance on this. As I understand, a VESSEL USING CALLSIGN could make a HF radio check call to any particular ship or coastal-station (never any-station, same as above) on 4125, 6215, 8291 or 12290 which are now guarded by CAMSLANT and CAMSPAC and KODIAK. A USCG operator will answer any non-distress HF call on a case-available basis. I didn't tell you to do this, but I would answer you. The PURPOSE of guarding 4125, 6215, 8291 and 12290 is to be READY for distress traffic voice calls on the associated channel for most of the DSC-GMDSS channels. These newly guarded channels (US is the first nation to do so btw) are ALSO allocated for "Calling". We'll have to see how that part works out. [0322z sidebar: USCG Group St Pete loud and clear in Virginia Beach, VA on 2182, shifting to 2670 khz for offshore marine information broadcast] ;-) Maybe I can get back to you with a more definitive HF-answer later Wayne, sorry it's just too new a procedure to be sure yet. Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:30:01 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: Maybe I can get back to you with a more definitive HF-answer later Wayne, sorry it's just too new a procedure to be sure yet. ====================================== Thanks. I'm getting ready to have a new Icom M-802 installed and will surely be interested in a few brief tests without violating any written or un-written rules in that respect. I know that Bermuda Harbor Radio routinely responds to radio check requests prior to the start of the Newport-Bermuda sailing race but I don't recall which frequency is recommended. |
"Jack Painter" wrote in message news:Zo%Gd.18134$B95.16615@lakeread02... "Wayne.B" wrote On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 01:04:36 -0500, "Jack Painter" wrote: In the interest of safe boating, I encourage anyone who is contemplating coastal cruising to contact their local USCG Group well in advance of the trip, and ask them for the estimated area of VHF and 2182 khz coverage along the route that they plan to take. An EPIRB is an important safety device in any cruising vessels inventory, but it cannot replace vital voice communications. ================================== Jack, does the USCG respond to "radio checks" on HF frequencies, and if so, what frequencies would you recommend? Hi Wayne, USCG always responds to radio checks. No they don't. And as Doug offered though, on VHF it is indeed strongly discouraged, and that becomes your "radio check". So being chewed out by the CG is their form of a response to a request for a radio check? Isn't that sweet. That certainly encourages folks to check to see if their rig is working. Channel 9 is allocated for both calling/hailing and as an alternate distress frequency (ship-to-ship only) in most areas now. This was done to alleviate the congestion in busy areas on Ch-16. It is also part of an experiment to move ALL calling/hailing from Ch-16 to Ch-9, leaving Ch-16 for urgency and distress only. Ch-9 is where ship to ship or ship to shore radio checks should take place. That's good. Ch9 is where radio check should be made. Radio operating procedures for VHF-marine do state that no "any station" type radio checks should ever be made. You just said that Ch9 is now intended for that purpose! I paraphrased that so you would understand that calling the "USCG" is just like making an any-station call. How does that make sense? We don't know if you are in distress, an urgency, safety issue, which Coast Guard unit is requested, etc. Perhaps listening to the caller to understand what the nature of the call is. All of the above are valid reasons for just sayng "USCG", I've never heard one say USCG unless they are trying to contact the USCG. but doing that for a radio check in congested areas is NOT. I've never heard anyone ask for a radio check from the USCG. Usually they are asking for a response from anyone that can hear them. Now if you called a SPECIFIC Coast Guard Group or Station, asking to switch to their wkg frequency for radio check, they should accomodate you in a courteous fashion, unless something else urgent is going on with their unit. Fair enough. On HF: Since HF duplex calling channels are no longer guarded (Jan-1-2005), and instead the associated simplex voice channels for 4,6,8, and 12 meg DSC-GMDSS are, I am not sure if that makes them the place for a radio check with USCG. It hasn't happened to me yet and I have not seen guidance on this. So, if I am heading offshore, how do I find out if the USCG can copy me? As I understand, a VESSEL USING CALLSIGN could make a HF radio check call to any particular ship or coastal-station (never any-station, same as above) on 4125, 6215, 8291 or 12290 which are now guarded by CAMSLANT and CAMSPAC and KODIAK. A USCG operator will answer any non-distress HF call on a case-available basis. I didn't tell you to do this, but I would answer you. So if I am trying to check my gear as I am heading offshore, the USCG will answer if they feel like it? The PURPOSE of guarding 4125, 6215, 8291 and 12290 is to be READY for distress traffic voice calls on the associated channel for most of the DSC-GMDSS channels. Even though no mechanism is in place for a vessel to establish that their equipment is capable of said comms. These newly guarded channels (US is the first nation to do so btw) are ALSO allocated for "Calling". We'll have to see how that part works out. [0322z sidebar: USCG Group St Pete loud and clear in Virginia Beach, VA on 2182, shifting to 2670 khz for offshore marine information broadcast] ;-) Maybe I can get back to you with a more definitive HF-answer later Wayne, sorry it's just too new a procedure to be sure yet. Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:45:23 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote: 4. Some small patrol boats DO have SSB capability, namely all new 47' MLBs's which systematically replace the aging 41' patrol boats. Some 41's also have SSB. All aircraft have VHF/MF/HF systems. Don' tyou mean they are replacing the 44' MLBs? Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a "Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia |
"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:45:23 -0500, "Jack Painter" wrote: 4. Some small patrol boats DO have SSB capability, namely all new 47' MLBs's which systematically replace the aging 41' patrol boats. Some 41's also have SSB. All aircraft have VHF/MF/HF systems. Don' tyou mean they are replacing the 44' MLBs? Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a Those also, yes. Most if not all 44's should already be retired by now, and there were a lot less of them to begin with (100?). Stations with heavy-surf requirements had to have a 44, those without that requirement, and that was a larger number, got various smaller units, 36' & 41' etc. Many of them are still around. Washington State, notorious for the surf-school and the worst bar-crossings in the continent, still has a variety of older surf boats for training. But the new 47 is the mainstay of the med-range surf-boat and general purpose patrol boat. SAFE boats are the new aluminum cabintops with orange protective rigid-hulls, generally at 25' with some customs units at 21,23 and 27'. These two new designs were tested at ISC Portsmouth, VA all summer of '04. Exciting equipment. http://www.oceantech.com/whatsnew.htm Jack |
Man, you must have alot of spare time on your hands :)
So how does the USCG support skywave comms for stations not near the coast? Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "Jack Painter" wrote in message news:8L_Gd.18132$B95.563@lakeread02... "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote Thank You! A great and sensible answer! And I agree that the squelch doesn't work all that well on SSB. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista "Me" wrote in message ... In article , "Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote: I don't know the actual answer to this, but it seems to me that the CG has clustered its monitoring stations for HF/MF along the coasts. What is the rationale behind this? It pretty much limits comms to groundwave in the covered areas. It would seems that a few stations spread out around the country would vastly expand coverage via skywave. Is it because the CG is limited in it's jusisdiction and can't establish stations inland? One of the advantages of using the ham bands is that station are stread out all over the world. At any given time day or night some station either via groundwave or skywave is going to be listening. Doug, k3qt s/v Callista It is because the USCG only deals with "Certain" Comms capability, so any skywave comms which depend on what the E and F layers are doing and what the GeoMagnetic Index is at the moment, aren't figured in. That is also why MF was basically given up as a Maritime Comms System when the switch to SSB from AM happened, by the USCG. Oh, the "Official Line" is that they have a 24/7 Watch on 2812 Khz, but in the REAL World, and not Jack's Universe, Most of those MF Receivers have the volume turn down, because the Operators can't deal with the white noise, when trying to hear something on one of the HF Receivers. Been that way for MANY years, even if Jack doesn't acknowledge it. Some of the best FCC Maritime Monitoring that was ever done was from the old Grand Island, Nebraska, Station....... Me Are you still interested in answers to your questions, or would you two just rather continue your back-slapping stories? Your replies to each other sound pretty cozy, and I don't want to barge in between your barstools while the two of you solve the world's problems. For the rest of the group still following G here is my universe: 1. "Squelch" is NEVER adjusted on any USCG guard receiver, VHF, MF, or HF. This applies equally to every Boat Station, Group, Sector, Activity, Communication Station and Communication Area Master Station. Anyone not drunk will also understand the following: 2. Volume is NEVER turned down, as was foolishly suggested above. Lets be serious for a moment. During critical SAR comms, volume will be turned UP on affected systems, this will have the same effect as turning others "down". That is not a long term condition, and SSB receivers are in a separate area from the VHF consoles anyway. This is something some of you could observe if you asked for a tour of a Group watchstanding system. 3. Boat Stations do NOT have SSB capability, their AOR is always within VHF range. 4. Some small patrol boats DO have SSB capability, namely all new 47' MLBs's which systematically replace the aging 41' patrol boats. Some 41's also have SSB. All aircraft have VHF/MF/HF systems. 5. Most Groups (or "Sectors" as they are transitioning to) and Activities have multiple towers (called "High Sites" ). Location of these high-sites normally allows significant overlap of the adjoining Group/Sector's AOR. 6. There are still areas of the Coastal-Continental United States that have small gaps in VHF coverage. Maine and Florida used to be the last ones on the East coast reporting this problem (there may be others we are not aware of). USCG AUX in Florida remedied that state's problem with volunteer funded, erected and maintained towers and repeater systems in the thousand islands area of SW Florida. 7. Rescue-21 when fully implemented, will maintain full VHF coverage in all areas, and between 20-40 miles seaward. The first Group to have this system completed is adjacent to me, on the Eastern Shore of Virginia. Even with Rescue-21 up and running there, that Group NOW has full MF-DSC-GMDSS capability on 2187.5 khz and of course monitors 2182 khz (the IMO-regulated adjoining voice channel to 2mhz-DSC) on a 24/7 basis, just as all USCG Groups do. 8. Each of a Group's several high-sites now has their own set of VHF receivers and transmitters. Group watchstanders monitor a guard receiver speaker from EACH high site, all playing "white noise" all the time. 9. The SSB/MF/HF systems of every GroupSector/Activity serves many other purposes than just guarding 2182 khz, which is required by International treaty for declared Sea Area A-2 (the range between VHF and HF shore coverage of guard frequencies). IMO regulations are beyond the scope of this discussion, but I will be happy to try to elaborate some that relate to ship to shore communications later. 9. Automatic Direction Finding equipment with display on computer-screen charts is selectable from all or individual high-sites. 10. Digital recording devices capture 100% of all incoming traffic to USCG Group receivers. 11. Auto-alarms received on 2182 khz (that are NOT during the testing-periods allowed) occur up to several times a week. In no case that I can remember, has the pleasure boat, fishing vessel or commercial ship that sounded them ever "cancelled" with apologies. Callouts and urgent marine information broadcasts across wide areas result. 12. Auto-alarms received on VHF-DSC Ch-70 (156.525 mhz) with no acknowledgement or cancellation occur at least weekly. Testing of VHF-DSC auto-alarms is illegal, so I guess it's no surprise that most don't acknowledge. I have heard a commercial fishing captain call us to say "the darn thing just went off". He was DF'd and hunted-down before he acknowledged this. It cost him nothing to apologize yet cost the Coast Guard an hour of SAR-callouts, boat-team launch, preparation for aircraft launch, etc. 13. Valid MAYDAY calls for USCG SAR-response are received on 2182 khz as the first communication used on average of once every two weeks or so along the Eastern seaboard. 14. HF is the ONLY 24hr skywave-reliable SSB system in use. MF is only for short range (20-200 miles), and only intended as a bridge between VHF line of sight and HF skywave. This doesn't stop us from completing hours of SAR-case communications exclusively on 2182 khz as long as it remains successful. Hope this clears some of the fog spreading from various barstool-scuttlebutt. Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote So being chewed out by the CG is their form of a response to a request for a radio check? Isn't that sweet. That certainly encourages folks to check to see if their rig is working. Doug, Unfortunately that's correct. Although the boating public often disagrees, it is not the USCG's responsibility to provide a means of testing their radio equipment. A reasonable person will understand that the boater is responsible and normally capable of making such equipment checks without interfering with a life-saving and homeland security service. This includes following the regulated use of marine radios, which prohibit making calls to a non-specific ("Any Station") unit or vessel for routine traffic, radio checks, etc. In local VHF use, there are few exceptions to this. One example could be in winter/heavy-wx, etc (imagine a condition when few pleasure or commercial activities might be active) and there are no other observed vessels or monitoring coastal stations available for a radio check prior to departing. We would all agree a vessel's communications equipment should be tested by any means available before such activity! Channel 9 is allocated for both calling/hailing and as an alternate distress frequency (ship-to-ship only) in most areas now. This was done to alleviate the congestion in busy areas on Ch-16. It is also part of an experiment to move ALL calling/hailing from Ch-16 to Ch-9, leaving Ch-16 for urgency and distress only. Ch-9 is where ship to ship or ship to shore radio checks should take place. That's good. Ch9 is where radio check should be made. Radio operating procedures for VHF-marine do state that no "any station" type radio checks should ever be made. You just said that Ch9 is now intended for that purpose! Indeed. That doesn't provide an excuse to ignore proper marine radio operating procedures, in which routine calls to unspecific stations are not permitted. This is not Amateur Radio! we do not "CQ" to chat or see how far anyone might hear us over the VHF or HF marine bands. If that activity is going to happen, and certainly it does, it should never be over the distress/hailing channel (16). I said the Coast Guard always answers radio checks. Let me be more specific. Over the years the policy on answering radio checks has changed at least a couple of times. It is current policy to discourage any vessel from using channel 16 to make radio checks. They should however be answered, and the sometimes inconsistent results are simply unfortunate. I've never heard anyone ask for a radio check from the USCG. Usually they are asking for a response from anyone that can hear them. See "This is not amateur radio!" above. Now if you called a SPECIFIC Coast Guard Group or Station, asking to switch to their wkg frequency for radio check, they should accomodate you in a courteous fashion, unless something else urgent is going on with their unit. Fair enough. I understand a boater ( I am one too btw) wants to know that the ones who would be called to help them should be able to hear them. It's also ignorant of the fact that it must be policy to discourage calling the Coast Guard anytime this emotional desire gets triggered (getting underway, tinkering with radio system, bored, etc). There are other more practical ways to test a radio when it is appropriate to do so, which do not interfere with life-saving and homeland security communications of the USCG. On HF: Since HF duplex calling channels are no longer guarded (Jan-1-2005), and instead the associated simplex voice channels for 4,6,8, and 12 meg DSC-GMDSS are, I am not sure if that makes them the place for a radio check with USCG. It hasn't happened to me yet and I have not seen guidance on this. So, if I am heading offshore, how do I find out if the USCG can copy me? As above, this is not a question that any indivdual vessel operator has a right to verify with the USCG directly. They can of course check their systems with any specific station (no "Any Station" calls) and if the USCG is able to answer, they might. USCG is not a marine telephone operator, and it would be purely the disgression of a watchstander, based on other priorities and guided by local command and service-policies, to respond to a radio check made specifically to his unit or station. I hope you find this helpful. Best regards, Jack Painter Virginia Beach, Virginia |
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