"Me" wrote in message
...
this is where the Practical and empirical evidence shows that
the math isn't showing what really is hapopeneing.

I have two 1 watt Vhf handhelds, with rubber antennas.
I can talk 16 miles over water with these two radios.
Both myself and my wife are less than 6.5 ft tall.
We are both standing at sealevel. (water lapping at our feet)
Now how does you MATH explain this empirical DATA?

VHF waves tend to follow the curvature of the earth slightly (just like
light diffracts around sharp corners), which indeed gives you more range
than the maths tells you.

Meindert

In article ,
"Meindert Sprang" wrote:

"Me" wrote in message
...
this is where the Practical and empirical evidence shows that
the math isn't showing what really is hapopeneing.

I have two 1 watt Vhf handhelds, with rubber antennas.
I can talk 16 miles over water with these two radios.
Both myself and my wife are less than 6.5 ft tall.
We are both standing at sealevel. (water lapping at our feet)
Now how does you MATH explain this empirical DATA?

VHF waves tend to follow the curvature of the earth slightly (just like
light diffracts around sharp corners), which indeed gives you more range
than the maths tells you.

Meindert



Yes, Meindert (the engineer) come up with the answer. Vhf does indeed
extend beyond Line of Sight, in all cases, and your math does not take
this into account. The straight that I live on, is 16 Statute Miles
wide, and my wife stands on one side, at the end of a road, at a boat
ramp, and I stand on the other side, in front of my cabin, on the beach.
Both our feet, are being lapped at by the water, at exactly Sea Level,
at that moment, and YES, we do communicate with one watt, Motorola
handheld radios with rubber antennas, and have for the last 15 years.

You made a BAD Assumption, when you stated that VHF (156Mhz) RF
Propigation was only Line of Sight. This is the downfall of your whole
construction. When you have as many years as I have in RF
Communications, you should, by then, have a better understanding of the
basic Laws of Physics, that underpin the technology that your espousing.

Me who knows the difference between Theory and Practice....

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 20:12:43 GMT, Me wrote:

In article ,
"Meindert Sprang" wrote:

"Me" wrote in message
...
this is where the Practical and empirical evidence shows that
the math isn't showing what really is hapopeneing.

I have two 1 watt Vhf handhelds, with rubber antennas.
I can talk 16 miles over water with these two radios.
Both myself and my wife are less than 6.5 ft tall.
We are both standing at sealevel. (water lapping at our feet)
Now how does you MATH explain this empirical DATA?

VHF waves tend to follow the curvature of the earth slightly (just like
light diffracts around sharp corners), which indeed gives you more range
than the maths tells you.

Meindert



Yes, Meindert (the engineer) come up with the answer. Vhf does indeed
extend beyond Line of Sight, in all cases, and your math does not take
this into account. The straight that I live on, is 16 Statute Miles
wide, and my wife stands on one side, at the end of a road, at a boat
ramp, and I stand on the other side, in front of my cabin, on the beach.
Both our feet, are being lapped at by the water, at exactly Sea Level,
at that moment, and YES, we do communicate with one watt, Motorola
handheld radios with rubber antennas, and have for the last 15 years.

You made a BAD Assumption, when you stated that VHF (156Mhz) RF
Propigation was only Line of Sight. This is the downfall of your whole
construction. When you have as many years as I have in RF
Communications, you should, by then, have a better understanding of the
basic Laws of Physics, that underpin the technology that your espousing.

Me who knows the difference between Theory and Practice....


The old saying by the Motorola salesman selling low band radios to the
farmers was "100 watts goes 100 miles".
It would do that on many days but you dare not design a system around
those figures.

Regards
Gary

Salesman's name was P.T. Barnum as I recall

"Gary Schafer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 20:12:43 GMT, Me wrote:

In article ,
"Meindert Sprang" wrote:

"Me" wrote in message
...
this is where the Practical and empirical evidence shows that
the math isn't showing what really is hapopeneing.

I have two 1 watt Vhf handhelds, with rubber antennas.
I can talk 16 miles over water with these two radios.
Both myself and my wife are less than 6.5 ft tall.
We are both standing at sealevel. (water lapping at our feet)
Now how does you MATH explain this empirical DATA?

VHF waves tend to follow the curvature of the earth slightly (just like
light diffracts around sharp corners), which indeed gives you more range
than the maths tells you.

Meindert



Yes, Meindert (the engineer) come up with the answer. Vhf does indeed
extend beyond Line of Sight, in all cases, and your math does not take
this into account. The straight that I live on, is 16 Statute Miles
wide, and my wife stands on one side, at the end of a road, at a boat
ramp, and I stand on the other side, in front of my cabin, on the beach.
Both our feet, are being lapped at by the water, at exactly Sea Level,
at that moment, and YES, we do communicate with one watt, Motorola
handheld radios with rubber antennas, and have for the last 15 years.

You made a BAD Assumption, when you stated that VHF (156Mhz) RF
Propigation was only Line of Sight. This is the downfall of your whole
construction. When you have as many years as I have in RF
Communications, you should, by then, have a better understanding of the
basic Laws of Physics, that underpin the technology that your espousing.

Me who knows the difference between Theory and Practice....


The old saying by the Motorola salesman selling low band radios to the
farmers was "100 watts goes 100 miles".
It would do that on many days but you dare not design a system around
those figures.

Regards
Gary

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 20:12:43 GMT, Me wrote:

In article ,
"Meindert Sprang" wrote:

"Me" wrote in message
...
this is where the Practical and empirical evidence shows that
the math isn't showing what really is hapopeneing.

I have two 1 watt Vhf handhelds, with rubber antennas.
I can talk 16 miles over water with these two radios.
Both myself and my wife are less than 6.5 ft tall.
We are both standing at sealevel. (water lapping at our feet)
Now how does you MATH explain this empirical DATA?

VHF waves tend to follow the curvature of the earth slightly (just like
light diffracts around sharp corners), which indeed gives you more range
than the maths tells you.

Meindert



Yes, Meindert (the engineer) come up with the answer. Vhf does indeed
extend beyond Line of Sight, in all cases, and your math does not take
this into account. The straight that I live on, is 16 Statute Miles
wide, and my wife stands on one side, at the end of a road, at a boat
ramp, and I stand on the other side, in front of my cabin, on the beach.
Both our feet, are being lapped at by the water, at exactly Sea Level,
at that moment, and YES, we do communicate with one watt, Motorola
handheld radios with rubber antennas, and have for the last 15 years.

You made a BAD Assumption, when you stated that VHF (156Mhz) RF
Propigation was only Line of Sight. This is the downfall of your whole
construction. When you have as many years as I have in RF
Communications, you should, by then, have a better understanding of the
basic Laws of Physics, that underpin the technology that your espousing.

Me who knows the difference between Theory and Practice....


By the way, the difference between radio line of sight and optical
line of sight at 5 miles is only about .7 miles at that distance.

The factor to multiply the height of the antenna by is about 1.33 for
radio over optical. The difference is not great.

There are phenomenon's such as ducting that take place on a regular
basis over some radio paths. Usually not over 24 hours though.

I can assure you that I can show you many places where hand held to
hand held will not produce anywhere near 16 miles of range even over
water but on rare occasions.

Regards
Gary