I now have a small boat (17 ft.) on Lake Oachita in Arkansas. I have
Lowrance Sonar and need to equip this boat with a GPS Mapping unit since
where I have my boat is very close to timber "Stickups". So to navigate into
the clear waterway, I want to be able to have fairly accurate Mapping
information. I have been looking at both the Garmin 168 and the Lowrance
LMS-480M.. I would apprecite any suggestions anyone may be able to
offer.Also is there any major benefit to Color over Greyscale.I would be
using a Laptop to record all of my routes. Thanks for any insight you may be
able to offer.
Hayward

Bill Rhine wrote:

snip Also is there any major benefit to Color over Greyscale.I would be
using a Laptop to record all of my routes. Thanks for any insight you may be
able to offer.

I have not used a Lowrance yet. The Garmin 168 uses 4 levels of gray to
differentiate details whereas some of the newer models like the 188 and
238 use 10 levels of gray.

The 10 gray level models show details better than the 4 level. Of the
two, I like the 10 level grayscale models best and find both the 4 and
10 usable in daylight or at night. For use at night, the grayscale
models have adjustable backlighting that works well.

The 188 and 238 can also use dual frequency transponders which is a nice
feature. It gives you some options for covering broader areas or going
for better detail at deeper depths.

Color is nice. It seems sort of like an eye candy issue at first but
after you use them a while you'll probably find you can discern certain
specifics more quickly at a glance because of the color distinction.
You can come to like them more real quickly.

I would try to look at the color model in direct sunlight if I could
before I bought one to make sure it is bright enough to work well in
direct sunlight. If you will be using it at night, see if the
brightness is controllable, the ones that work good in daylight need to
be turned way down at night to keep from overwhelming your night vision
and just being a general annoyance.

If you're wearing polarized sunglasses, you will have trouble seeing
things on any LCD. You will pretty much have to take the sunglasses off
to read the LCD.

Downloading marks and routes with an accessory PC cable works well, the
newer ones (188, 238) also use a data card (proprietary to Garmin) that
can be used for up and down loads. You can get a USB port reader/writer
so that you can use the data cards to move map data, waypoints, and
routes, between the GPS/sounder and a PC.

If you go for the Garmins with the data cards you will be locked into
buying your charts from them (on CD-ROM's or pre-programmed data cards)
if you're going to be on waters for which charting is available.

The prices on the Garmin 188 and 238 are coming down some since they
introduced the newer, bigger, color displays. If I were going to buy a
new GPS/sounder now I'd compare the cost difference between a 168 and a
188 or even 238 to see if I couldn't gain the 10 level display, dual
frequency transponder, and data card features at a nominal increase in
price. Check the internet prices or eBay for the best deals.

Good luck!

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

wrote:
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:53:42 -0400, Jack Erbes
wrote:


If you're wearing polarized sunglasses, you will have trouble seeing
things on any LCD. You will pretty much have to take the sunglasses
off to read the LCD.


Baloney!

I can see my LCD radar just fine, and I can even read my Garmin
Map76s from 6 feet away. I'm old and very nearsighted with severe
astigmatism. You must have defective glasses. If I turn my head
sideways 90 degrees, the screen goes blank, but I rarely turn my head
sideways 90 degrees, so that isn't an issue.

BB

Best sunscreen is the helmet used by F16 fighter pilots with built-in UV
filtering and a head-up display! (Full colour)

You should be able to pick up an old one from the USAF for around $10,000,
and work out the connections!

Your crew will be suitably impressed!


Remove "nospam" from return address.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 05/10/2004

wrote:

Baloney!

I can see my LCD radar just fine, and I can even read my Garmin Map76s from 6
feet away. I'm old and very nearsighted with severe astigmatism. You must have
defective glasses. If I turn my head sideways 90 degrees, the screen goes blank,
but I rarely turn my head sideways 90 degrees, so that isn't an issue.


Maybe I mis-described the type of display that it happens with?

But it is not baloney when it actually happens. I have seen it first
hand (with my eyes and the display oriented normally) on Furuno (1751?)
and Northstar (952x) color displays.

I have a Viewsonic VX900 monitor on this computer, just put the same
sunglasses on, and the display is not affected until you rotate your
head 90 degrees.

So I wonder if it is a case of some displays are built with vertical
polarization and others are horizontal?

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

Dennis Pogson wrote:

snip
Best sunscreen is the helmet used by F16 fighter pilots with built-in UV
filtering and a head-up display! (Full colour)

You should be able to pick up an old one from the USAF for around $10,000,
and work out the connections!

Your crew will be suitably impressed!


No good. It will mess up your suntan! :)

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

You're using a laptop on a 17' boat? Why not just use a chartplotter program
like Nobeltec or The Cap'n? Hook it up to the cheapest Garmin GPS you can
find for input.

If you really want a GPS/Chartplotter combo, stick with Garmin, and get
color if you can afford it. If not, good grayscale is fine.

--


Keith
__
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his
fools."--Ernest Hemingway
"Bill Rhine" wrote in message
...
I now have a small boat (17 ft.) on Lake Oachita in Arkansas. I have
Lowrance Sonar and need to equip this boat with a GPS Mapping unit since
where I have my boat is very close to timber "Stickups". So to navigate
into the clear waterway, I want to be able to have fairly accurate Mapping
information. I have been looking at both the Garmin 168 and the Lowrance
LMS-480M.. I would apprecite any suggestions anyone may be able to
offer.Also is there any major benefit to Color over Greyscale.I would be
using a Laptop to record all of my routes. Thanks for any insight you may
be able to offer.
Hayward

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:59:06 -0500, Bill Rhine wrote:

I now have a small boat (17 ft.) on Lake Oachita in Arkansas. I have
Lowrance Sonar and need to equip this boat with a GPS Mapping unit since
where I have my boat is very close to timber "Stickups". So to navigate into
the clear waterway, I want to be able to have fairly accurate Mapping
information. I have been looking at both the Garmin 168 and the Lowrance
LMS-480M.. I would apprecite any suggestions anyone may be able to
offer.Also is there any major benefit to Color over Greyscale.I would be
using a Laptop to record all of my routes. Thanks for any insight you may be
able to offer.
Hayward

I have a Garmin 168 which I just replaced with a Garmin 188. The old one
is about 1 year old and is available for sale with mapping software and a
computer cable. It works perfectly. However, I would be less than honest
if I didn't tell you that I replaced the 168 because I could not read it
with the sun in front of me. My boat is a Utopia 185, an 18.5' jet boat
with an open cockpit of the "bowrider" design. If I put the top up, it was
easier to read, but I like the sun. I am 63 and have reasonably good eyes
(I wear reading glasses, but not while boating).

The biggest benefit to color is the brightness of the screen. The 188 is
much brighter than the 168.

I don't think the accuracy of ANY GPS device is sufficient to navigate in
close to obstructions. However, you can make notes and place them on the
electronic charts, particularly with the mapping software.

I am gone most of today, but will check email tonight if this interests
you.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
10/18/04 10:49:20 AM

Thank you very much Jack for your detailed information,particulary on the
Gray Scale levels which I was not awareof from reading the published specs.
Thanks again-Bill Rhine, Hot Springs"Jack Erbes"
wrote in message ...
Bill Rhine wrote:

snip Also is there any major benefit to Color over Greyscale.I would be
using a Laptop to record all of my routes. Thanks for any insight you may
be able to offer.

I have not used a Lowrance yet. The Garmin 168 uses 4 levels of gray to
differentiate details whereas some of the newer models like the 188 and
238 use 10 levels of gray.

The 10 gray level models show details better than the 4 level. Of the
two, I like the 10 level grayscale models best and find both the 4 and 10
usable in daylight or at night. For use at night, the grayscale models
have adjustable backlighting that works well.

The 188 and 238 can also use dual frequency transponders which is a nice
feature. It gives you some options for covering broader areas or going
for better detail at deeper depths.

Color is nice. It seems sort of like an eye candy issue at first but
after you use them a while you'll probably find you can discern certain
specifics more quickly at a glance because of the color distinction. You
can come to like them more real quickly.

I would try to look at the color model in direct sunlight if I could
before I bought one to make sure it is bright enough to work well in
direct sunlight. If you will be using it at night, see if the brightness
is controllable, the ones that work good in daylight need to be turned way
down at night to keep from overwhelming your night vision and just being a
general annoyance.

If you're wearing polarized sunglasses, you will have trouble seeing
things on any LCD. You will pretty much have to take the sunglasses off
to read the LCD.

Downloading marks and routes with an accessory PC cable works well, the
newer ones (188, 238) also use a data card (proprietary to Garmin) that
can be used for up and down loads. You can get a USB port reader/writer
so that you can use the data cards to move map data, waypoints, and
routes, between the GPS/sounder and a PC.

If you go for the Garmins with the data cards you will be locked into
buying your charts from them (on CD-ROM's or pre-programmed data cards) if
you're going to be on waters for which charting is available.

The prices on the Garmin 188 and 238 are coming down some since they
introduced the newer, bigger, color displays. If I were going to buy a
new GPS/sounder now I'd compare the cost difference between a 168 and a
188 or even 238 to see if I couldn't gain the 10 level display, dual
frequency transponder, and data card features at a nominal increase in
price. Check the internet prices or eBay for the best deals.

Good luck!

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:42:07 GMT, wrote:
Yes, that is the case. However, I think it is your glasses and the viewsonic
monitor that are out of step with the standard practice. I have a Furuno radar
and a Garmin GPS, and a handful of other LCD devices and never see the problem
that you are having.

================================

I've seen the problem many times with different displays and different
polarized sunglasses. I've found more displays that I can't read with
sunglasses than those that I can.

wrote:

Hi Jack,

Yes, that is the case. However, I think it is your glasses and the viewsonic
monitor that are out of step with the standard practice. I have a Furuno radar
and a Garmin GPS, and a handful of other LCD devices and never see the problem
that you are having. snip

No, the Viewsonic monitor is fine with the glasses. Unless I have
fallen out of my chair and am laying on my side.

The Furuno was fine unless I was standing in front of it normally
oriented and holding my head erect. So I now assume that particular
Furuno was vertically polarized.

And there is no doubt about the issue with that particular Furuno, I was
on that boat 3 weeks and saw the problem every time I looked at the
display with my sunglasses on.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com