"Rick" wrote
Larry W4CSC wrote:

To operate GMDSS/DSC, you are required to be a licensed GMDSS OPERATOR,
having passed elements 1 and 7 of the General Radio Operator's License
examinations (GROL).

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html


Just because a VHF with DSC is part of the suite of equipment that makes
up a GMDSS installation does not mean that a GMDSS operator's ticket is
needed to own or use one. Perhaps you should read your own links.Those
radio salesmen know more than you do about their customers and their
needs.

There is not even a requirement for a ship station license for that
vessel. The MMSI will be issued without a station or operators license.

Rick

I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is
required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue come
up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed equipment. I
can say that the equipment is certainly different where HF is concerned, but
not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with your position and channel
on VHF-DSC.

Jack

Jack Painter wrote:


I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is
required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue come
up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed equipment. I
can say that the equipment is certainly different where HF is concerned, but
not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with your position and channel
on VHF-DSC.

There is no requirement for a commercial radio operator's license to
carry or use an HF or a VHF set on a US recreational vessel. In the US a
restricted radio operator's permit and a ship station license is all
that is required to operate HF. If the recreational vessel makes no
international voyages then no license of any sort is required for
VHF/DSC installations or use.

Like I wrote earlier, just because a radio incorporates one of the
features that comprise part of a GMDSS suite does not mean that the
operator hold a GMDSS license.

Rick

Rick wrote in
ink.net:

Jack Painter wrote:


I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license
is required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue
come up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed
equipment. I can say that the equipment is certainly different where
HF is concerned, but not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with
your position and channel on VHF-DSC.

There is no requirement for a commercial radio operator's license to
carry or use an HF or a VHF set on a US recreational vessel. In the US
a restricted radio operator's permit and a ship station license is all
that is required to operate HF. If the recreational vessel makes no
international voyages then no license of any sort is required for
VHF/DSC installations or use.

Like I wrote earlier, just because a radio incorporates one of the
features that comprise part of a GMDSS suite does not mean that the
operator hold a GMDSS license.

Rick



The use of ANY HF equipment aboard ANY recreational boat DOES require a
Ship Station License, even if it's in a backyard pond....because the HF
station is INTERNATIONAL on any channel, as required by ITU.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/gmdss.html


http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html
Another note of interest from this website:
"If your vessel requires licensing by the FCC after you have obtained an
MMSI from BoatUS, MariTEL or Sea Tow Service that MMSI cannot be used
during the application/licensing process when you file FCC Form 159 and 605
with the FCC. MMSIs issued by other authorized entities are valid only for
ship stations that do not have FCC-issued licenses. Since the ULS will not
accept the MMSI that was issued by another entity, you should not enter
anything in item 10 on FCC Form 605, Schedule B. Leave this field blank and
the FCC will issue you a new MMSI."

Boat/US MMSIs are useless with FCC licensed stations.....(sigh)

Also from this fctsht14 website is an answer about your unlicensed VHF
walkie talkie being used as a CB on the dock, home, car, etc.:
"MAY I USE MY HAND-HELD MARINE VHF RADIO ON LAND?

You must have a special license, called a marine utility station license,
to operate a hand-held marine radio from land -- a ship station license IS
NOT sufficient. You may apply for this license by filing FCC Form 601 with
the FCC. To be eligible for a marine utility station license, you must
generally provide some sort of service to ships or have control over a
bridge or waterway. Additionally, you must show a need to communicate using
hand-held portable equipment from both a ship and from coast locations.
Each unit must be capable of operation while being hand-carried by an
individual. The station operates under the rules applicable to ship
stations when the unit is aboard a ship, and under the rules applicable to
private coast stations when the unit is on land."

You CANNOT, legally, call your boat from your VHF marine radio on the
beach. You don't have a "Marine Utility License"....

As to the rules about the Commercial Operator's Licenses (GROL with GMDSS
operator's endorsement), the rules are on:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr13_00.html

You'll need, also, a copy of the maritime mobile radio service rules:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_00.html

Voluntary ship license operators under 400 W PEP (all the SSB radios at
150W PEP you guys have), need Restricted Radio Telephone Operator Permits
to operate VOICE on HF.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-
cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=80&SECTION=165&YEAR=2000&TYP E=TEXT

Now......about the GMDSS operator on your LICENSED SHIP STATION.....

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-
cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=80&SECTION=1073&YEAR=2000&TY PE=TEXT

IT says, and I quote:

"[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5, Parts 80 to End]
[Revised as of October 1, 2000]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR80.1073]

[Page 170-171]

TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 80--STATIONS IN THE MARITIME SERVICES--Table of Contents

Subpart W--Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS)

Sec. 80.1073 Radio operator requirements for ship stations.

(a) Ships must carry at least two persons holding GMDSS Radio
Operator's Licenses as specified in Sec. 13.2 of this chapter for
distress and safety radiocommunications purposes. The GMDSS Radio
Operator's License qualifies personnel as GMDSS radio operator for the
purposes of operating GMDSS radio installation, including basic
equipment adjustments as denoted in knowledge requirements specified in
Sec. 13.21 of this chapter.
(1) One of the qualified GMDSS radio operators must be designated to
have

[[Page 171]]

primary responsiblility for radiocommunications during distress
incidents.
(2) A second qualified GMDSS radio operator must be designated as
backup for distress and safety radiocommunications.
(b) A qualified GMDSS radio operator, and a qualified backup, as
specified in paragraph (a) of this section must be:
(1) Available to act as the dedicated radio operator in cases of
distress as described in Sec. 80.1109(a);
(2) Designated to perform as part of normal routine each of the
applicable communications described in Sec. 80.1109(b);
(3) Responsible for selecting HF DSC guard channels and receiving
scheduled maritime safety information broadcasts;
(4) Designated to perform communications described in
Sec. 80.1109(c);
(5) Responsible for ensuring that the watches required by
Sec. 80.1123 are properly maintained; and
(6) Responsible for ensuring that the ship's navigation position is
entered, either manually or automatically through a navigation receiver,
into all installed DSC equipment at least every four hours while the
ship is underway."

Notice that NO PLEASURE BOAT exemptions of any kind exist for the casual
captain with an HF/SSB radio that has GMDSS/DSC radio equipment on the HF
bands (below 30 Mhz) with a Ship License, which is MANDATORY for every boat
with HF/SSB marine band equipment.

'Tis not to poopoo, "Oh, we don't need that because we are a little
sailboat with a GMDSS-equipped HF/SSB radio." By international agreement,
and ITU regulations, ALL GMDSS-EQUIPPED HF/SSB radios are REQUIRED to have,
not one, but TWO LICENSED GMDSS OPERATORS aboard, one of which is, and I
quote once again,

"Available to act as the dedicated radio operator in cases of
distress as described in Sec. 80.1109(a)"

No mention in the GMDSS regulations says anything about a casual "voluntary
ship" (your sailboat) being exempt that I can find. Please quote it if you
find it to enlighten us all.

In the GMDSS question section, it says:

"Can I use my current FCC operator license aboard GMDSS ships?

No. Any person who wants to become a GMDSS radio operator must pass a new
examination to receive the GMDSS license."

This would, also, include the yachtie with a Restricted Radio Telephone
Operator's Permit. GMDSS must NOT be operated by anyone UNTIL he has taken
the element exams for GMDSS operator and has that license in his hands.

Conclusion - Unless you are willing to go to this extreme, do NOT buy an
HF/SSB radio with GMDSS/DSC capabilities for your yacht. You cannot
operate it until two of you have GMDSS Operator Licenses.

Larry

Still interested in getting your GMDSS Operator's License? It's not rocket
science:

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html

Don't press the red button without it....(c;

"Jack Painter" wrote in
news:_nKGc.8282$pY2.8013@lakeread01:



I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is
required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue
come up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed
equipment. I can say that the equipment is certainly different where
HF is concerned, but not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with
your position and channel on VHF-DSC.

Jack


I was referring to the HF GMDSS system, which goes along with the Icom M800
HF/SSB rig of this thread, although it does not have GMDSS.....

NOT UNLICENSED VHF....

To operate HF GMDSS aboard your sailboat, a GMDSS OPERATORS license IS
required, no matter what the Waste Marine salesman told you...

Larry

"Larry W4CSC" wrote
"Jack Painter" wrote in
I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is
required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue
come up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed
equipment. I can say that the equipment is certainly different where
HF is concerned, but not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with
your position and channel on VHF-DSC.

Jack


I was referring to the HF GMDSS system, which goes along with the Icom
M800
HF/SSB rig of this thread, although it does not have GMDSS.....

NOT UNLICENSED VHF....

To operate HF GMDSS aboard your sailboat, a GMDSS OPERATORS license IS
required, no matter what the Waste Marine salesman told you...

Larry, it's a confusing matter, and I don't want in the middle of something
I cannot offer evidence for. So I will just add that when Rick quoted or
refeernced the NavCenter pages, I will caution that we have not done a
bang-up job of maintainng that website. I have had to clairify boater's
questions there about watchstanding before as it is very confusing in some
areas.

Like this (NavCenter)
For MF Radios the watch is maintained on 2182 kHz and for MF-DSC radios on
2187.5 kHz. There are similar requirements that voluntary vessels with
HF-DSC radios and Inmarsat Satellite terminals cruise with the radios turned
on and watching the emergency channels
--
Realize that 5 years after that was published, we STILL don't have a Sea
Area A-2 yet! And we do a somewhat less than credible job of monitoring 2182
from lousy whips antennas at Groups. And where I work, we missed the 2187.5
GMDSS distress call sent by the exploded T/V Bow Mariner some 80 miles away
from our main DSC antenna.. So if it's an FCC rule we are talking about,
then I would recommend avoiding the USCG websites as a source of conclusive
information. We'll try to answer questions about our own rules, not the
FCC's thank you.

Best,

jack