Larry W4CSC wrote in message ...
(Steve) wrote in
om:

Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the IC-M800 to operate on
Ham freqs ?

Any pointers to instructions ?

Thanks

Simon


We have the M-802 on Lionheart. To open its transmit up to 2-30 Mhz
transmit, simply hold down MODE and TX buttons together while pressing the
2 button. This toggles the radio between marine channels only and wide
open frequency transmit.

To keep my captain from being arrested, when I leave the boat, I toggle it
back to marine-channels-only transmit...(c;

73, Larry W4CSC/MM

Thanks for this, does that mean I can assume the M800 is the same as
your 802 ?

It would be great if it was 'toggleable' becuase like you we will have
a mix of people with different qualifications using the vessel and I
absolutely must ensure that we stay legal. Although it seems to me
that as a means of routine shore contact, a full ham licence at both
ends is virtually essential - is that correct ?

Thanks

Simon

What do you mean by a "full ham license"? To use most HF
frequencies a General class license is required. An Extra
class give you access to all ham frequencies but is really
not necessary. And yes, both ends need a license.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Steve" wrote in message
om...
Larry W4CSC wrote in message
...
(Steve) wrote in
om:

Does anyone know if it is possible to modify the IC-M800 to operate on
Ham freqs ?

Any pointers to instructions ?

Thanks

Simon


We have the M-802 on Lionheart. To open its transmit up to 2-30 Mhz
transmit, simply hold down MODE and TX buttons together while pressing
the
2 button. This toggles the radio between marine channels only and wide
open frequency transmit.

To keep my captain from being arrested, when I leave the boat, I toggle
it
back to marine-channels-only transmit...(c;

73, Larry W4CSC/MM

Thanks for this, does that mean I can assume the M800 is the same as
your 802 ?

It would be great if it was 'toggleable' becuase like you we will have
a mix of people with different qualifications using the vessel and I
absolutely must ensure that we stay legal. Although it seems to me
that as a means of routine shore contact, a full ham licence at both
ends is virtually essential - is that correct ?

Thanks

Simon

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message ...
What do you mean by a "full ham license"? To use most HF
frequencies a General class license is required. An Extra
class give you access to all ham frequencies but is really
not necessary. And yes, both ends need a license.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

...
...
...
The UK has a new 3-tier licence system, only the top tier - the
'advanced' license - allows transmission on all amateur freqs with
400W and is internationally acceptable.

We also have a new 3-tier system. The top 2 allow use of the HF
bands at 2000W.


Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Steve" wrote in message
om...
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
What do you mean by a "full ham license"? To use most HF
frequencies a General class license is required. An Extra
class give you access to all ham frequencies but is really
not necessary. And yes, both ends need a license.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

..
..
..
The UK has a new 3-tier licence system, only the top tier - the
'advanced' license - allows transmission on all amateur freqs with
400W and is internationally acceptable.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

We also have a new 3-tier system. The top 2 allow use of the HF
bands at 2000W.


Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista


2000 watts? You mean I have to turn it DOWN?!!

73, Larry W4CSC

(Steve) wrote in
om:



Thanks for this, does that mean I can assume the M800 is the same as
your 802 ?

I don't think so. The M800 isn't listed on Icom's manuals website so must
be old. Sorry I can't help more.

It would be great if it was 'toggleable' becuase like you we will have
a mix of people with different qualifications using the vessel and I
absolutely must ensure that we stay legal. Although it seems to me
that as a means of routine shore contact, a full ham licence at both
ends is virtually essential - is that correct ?


Here I'll give you some help. The ONLY people who should operate the HF
SSB radio are those who are WELL EDUCATED in its use. Each operator in the
USA is REQUIRED to have a "Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit" to
be legal.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/rp.html

This is a nothing license that simply gives the FCC someone to prosecute
who is under their jurisdiction because of how the Communications Act of
1934 is written. There's no skills test at all.


To operate GMDSS/DSC, you are required to be a licensed GMDSS OPERATOR,
having passed elements 1 and 7 of the General Radio Operator's License
examinations (GROL).

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html

(I'll probably get slammed for pointing this out, but you can read it for
yourself on the webpages.) Radio salesmen selling GMDSS equipment to
yachties never mention any of this, of course, as it would stop sales of
expensive equipment. It's NOT a cellphone.

To repair GMDSS equipment, there's a repairman's license, too. I hold both
so have an operator/maintainer's license (elements 1,3,7 and 9) called a DB
license.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/dm.html

As to the ham license, everyone who's going to operate the radio should go
get his General Class ham radio license. The code testing that turned
everyone off has NEARLY gone away and you only have to learn 5 wpm Morse
code, now, to get the General and have HF/SSB priviledges on the choice ham
bands. If you're gonna be at sea, having ham buddies ashore to handle
message traffic is well worth the effort. Local ham radio clubs in your
area hold classes to teach code and the written tests. I've gotten
children as young as 9 to pass the General tests, but that's no where near
the record of 4 or 5 years old. I recently lost $10 betting a 12-year-old
he couldn't pass his Extra Class ham license test before he became a
teenager. Losing that $10 was such a pleasure just to see the beaming
smile on his face....(c;

Now, IN AN EMERGENCY WHERE LIVES ARE IN DANGER....there are NO RADIO LAWS
in force! While I was helping the local mechanic figure out where the
water came from that flooded Lionheart's Perkins 4-108 diesel down in
Daytona Beach, I had our M-802 tuned to the Maritime Service Net on 14.300
Mhz. (RECORD THAT FREQUENCY...VERY IMPORTANT). This net runs nearly
24/7/365 on 14.300 Mhz USB to help boaters at sea. As we were working on
the engine, the captain of a Honduran commercial fishing vessel contacted
the hams on the net to try to get help for one of his crewmen who had been
in a fight and had a 7" knife stuck in his back between some vital organs.
He was in shock, of course, and his life was threatened. This captain was
NOT A HAM RADIO OPERATOR...which is FINE WHEN LIFE IS IN DANGER! Do not
hesitate to let ANYONE operate the radio during these emergencies,
especially on 14.300 Mhz where the hams will work day and night to save
lives and boats! A Canadian ham who is very active on this net contacted
the USCG to try to get help to the boat. USCG contacted the Honduran Air
Force who subsequently got a boat out to this slow fishing boat to get the
injured crewman off and to a hospital in Honduras. HE SURVIVED!! Makes ya
feel proud to be a ham...(c;

Hope this info and the webpages helps you get it all running. You really
need to learn the Element 1 practices and procedures for using HF radio
before getting on HF/SSB.

By the way, if you're interested in getting your GMDSS operator's license
or more, we make it SO easy because we give you all the questions and
answers to all the tests, now, instead of making you sit in front of the
steely-eyed FCC examiner from the Radio Gestapo WRITING out your answers to
the old tests back when the First Class FCC Radiotelephone License proudly
displayed on my wall meant you knew what you were doing. You can download
all these commercial test elements from:
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/eqp.html
memorize the answers and just go take the test from a volunteer examiner,
who is probably a local ham operator in your area.

Larry W4CSC and other fine old calls since 1957 (I was 11 when I got my ham
license.)

Larry W4CSC wrote:

To operate GMDSS/DSC, you are required to be a licensed GMDSS OPERATOR,
having passed elements 1 and 7 of the General Radio Operator's License
examinations (GROL).

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html

(I'll probably get slammed for pointing this out, but you can read it for
yourself on the webpages.) Radio salesmen selling GMDSS equipment to
yachties never mention any of this, of course, as it would stop sales of
expensive equipment. It's NOT a cellphone.

Larry, where do you get the stuff you post? Is there an exhaust leak on
your old bread truck or something?

For American recreational vessels under 20 meters operating only in
American waters, no license of any sort is required to operate a DSC
equipped VHF radio. For those who travel abroad a simple no test
Restricted ticket and a ship station license is still all that is needed.

Just because a VHF with DSC is part of the suite of equipment that makes
up a GMDSS installation does not mean that a GMDSS operator's ticket is
needed to own or use one. Perhaps you should read your own links.Those
radio salesmen know more than you do about their customers and their needs.

There is not even a requirement for a ship station license for that
vessel. The MMSI will be issued without a station or operators license.

I am sure we are all impressed to no end that you hold GMDSS operator
and maintainer tickets but that obviously has no bearing on how much you
know about the rules for using them. Besides, 99.999 percent of small
boaters probably could care less about "maintaining" their DSC radios.

Rick

"Rick" wrote
Larry W4CSC wrote:

To operate GMDSS/DSC, you are required to be a licensed GMDSS OPERATOR,
having passed elements 1 and 7 of the General Radio Operator's License
examinations (GROL).

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html


Just because a VHF with DSC is part of the suite of equipment that makes
up a GMDSS installation does not mean that a GMDSS operator's ticket is
needed to own or use one. Perhaps you should read your own links.Those
radio salesmen know more than you do about their customers and their
needs.

There is not even a requirement for a ship station license for that
vessel. The MMSI will be issued without a station or operators license.

Rick

I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is
required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue come
up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed equipment. I
can say that the equipment is certainly different where HF is concerned, but
not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with your position and channel
on VHF-DSC.

Jack

Jack Painter wrote:


I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license is
required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue come
up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed equipment. I
can say that the equipment is certainly different where HF is concerned, but
not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with your position and channel
on VHF-DSC.

There is no requirement for a commercial radio operator's license to
carry or use an HF or a VHF set on a US recreational vessel. In the US a
restricted radio operator's permit and a ship station license is all
that is required to operate HF. If the recreational vessel makes no
international voyages then no license of any sort is required for
VHF/DSC installations or use.

Like I wrote earlier, just because a radio incorporates one of the
features that comprise part of a GMDSS suite does not mean that the
operator hold a GMDSS license.

Rick

Rick wrote in
ink.net:

Jack Painter wrote:


I believe the thread has been dealing only with HF, where a license
is required. I operate under NTIA not FCC so I haven't had that issue
come up...but Larry certainly would on a sail yacht with licensed
equipment. I can say that the equipment is certainly different where
HF is concerned, but not as much fun as pinging your buddy's GPS with
your position and channel on VHF-DSC.

There is no requirement for a commercial radio operator's license to
carry or use an HF or a VHF set on a US recreational vessel. In the US
a restricted radio operator's permit and a ship station license is all
that is required to operate HF. If the recreational vessel makes no
international voyages then no license of any sort is required for
VHF/DSC installations or use.

Like I wrote earlier, just because a radio incorporates one of the
features that comprise part of a GMDSS suite does not mean that the
operator hold a GMDSS license.

Rick



The use of ANY HF equipment aboard ANY recreational boat DOES require a
Ship Station License, even if it's in a backyard pond....because the HF
station is INTERNATIONAL on any channel, as required by ITU.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/gmdss.html


http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html
Another note of interest from this website:
"If your vessel requires licensing by the FCC after you have obtained an
MMSI from BoatUS, MariTEL or Sea Tow Service that MMSI cannot be used
during the application/licensing process when you file FCC Form 159 and 605
with the FCC. MMSIs issued by other authorized entities are valid only for
ship stations that do not have FCC-issued licenses. Since the ULS will not
accept the MMSI that was issued by another entity, you should not enter
anything in item 10 on FCC Form 605, Schedule B. Leave this field blank and
the FCC will issue you a new MMSI."

Boat/US MMSIs are useless with FCC licensed stations.....(sigh)

Also from this fctsht14 website is an answer about your unlicensed VHF
walkie talkie being used as a CB on the dock, home, car, etc.:
"MAY I USE MY HAND-HELD MARINE VHF RADIO ON LAND?

You must have a special license, called a marine utility station license,
to operate a hand-held marine radio from land -- a ship station license IS
NOT sufficient. You may apply for this license by filing FCC Form 601 with
the FCC. To be eligible for a marine utility station license, you must
generally provide some sort of service to ships or have control over a
bridge or waterway. Additionally, you must show a need to communicate using
hand-held portable equipment from both a ship and from coast locations.
Each unit must be capable of operation while being hand-carried by an
individual. The station operates under the rules applicable to ship
stations when the unit is aboard a ship, and under the rules applicable to
private coast stations when the unit is on land."

You CANNOT, legally, call your boat from your VHF marine radio on the
beach. You don't have a "Marine Utility License"....

As to the rules about the Commercial Operator's Licenses (GROL with GMDSS
operator's endorsement), the rules are on:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr13_00.html

You'll need, also, a copy of the maritime mobile radio service rules:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...7cfr80_00.html

Voluntary ship license operators under 400 W PEP (all the SSB radios at
150W PEP you guys have), need Restricted Radio Telephone Operator Permits
to operate VOICE on HF.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-
cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=80&SECTION=165&YEAR=2000&TYP E=TEXT

Now......about the GMDSS operator on your LICENSED SHIP STATION.....

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-
cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=80&SECTION=1073&YEAR=2000&TY PE=TEXT

IT says, and I quote:

"[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5, Parts 80 to End]
[Revised as of October 1, 2000]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR80.1073]

[Page 170-171]

TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 80--STATIONS IN THE MARITIME SERVICES--Table of Contents

Subpart W--Global Maritime Distress and Safety System (GMDSS)

Sec. 80.1073 Radio operator requirements for ship stations.

(a) Ships must carry at least two persons holding GMDSS Radio
Operator's Licenses as specified in Sec. 13.2 of this chapter for
distress and safety radiocommunications purposes. The GMDSS Radio
Operator's License qualifies personnel as GMDSS radio operator for the
purposes of operating GMDSS radio installation, including basic
equipment adjustments as denoted in knowledge requirements specified in
Sec. 13.21 of this chapter.
(1) One of the qualified GMDSS radio operators must be designated to
have

[[Page 171]]

primary responsiblility for radiocommunications during distress
incidents.
(2) A second qualified GMDSS radio operator must be designated as
backup for distress and safety radiocommunications.
(b) A qualified GMDSS radio operator, and a qualified backup, as
specified in paragraph (a) of this section must be:
(1) Available to act as the dedicated radio operator in cases of
distress as described in Sec. 80.1109(a);
(2) Designated to perform as part of normal routine each of the
applicable communications described in Sec. 80.1109(b);
(3) Responsible for selecting HF DSC guard channels and receiving
scheduled maritime safety information broadcasts;
(4) Designated to perform communications described in
Sec. 80.1109(c);
(5) Responsible for ensuring that the watches required by
Sec. 80.1123 are properly maintained; and
(6) Responsible for ensuring that the ship's navigation position is
entered, either manually or automatically through a navigation receiver,
into all installed DSC equipment at least every four hours while the
ship is underway."

Notice that NO PLEASURE BOAT exemptions of any kind exist for the casual
captain with an HF/SSB radio that has GMDSS/DSC radio equipment on the HF
bands (below 30 Mhz) with a Ship License, which is MANDATORY for every boat
with HF/SSB marine band equipment.

'Tis not to poopoo, "Oh, we don't need that because we are a little
sailboat with a GMDSS-equipped HF/SSB radio." By international agreement,
and ITU regulations, ALL GMDSS-EQUIPPED HF/SSB radios are REQUIRED to have,
not one, but TWO LICENSED GMDSS OPERATORS aboard, one of which is, and I
quote once again,

"Available to act as the dedicated radio operator in cases of
distress as described in Sec. 80.1109(a)"

No mention in the GMDSS regulations says anything about a casual "voluntary
ship" (your sailboat) being exempt that I can find. Please quote it if you
find it to enlighten us all.

In the GMDSS question section, it says:

"Can I use my current FCC operator license aboard GMDSS ships?

No. Any person who wants to become a GMDSS radio operator must pass a new
examination to receive the GMDSS license."

This would, also, include the yachtie with a Restricted Radio Telephone
Operator's Permit. GMDSS must NOT be operated by anyone UNTIL he has taken
the element exams for GMDSS operator and has that license in his hands.

Conclusion - Unless you are willing to go to this extreme, do NOT buy an
HF/SSB radio with GMDSS/DSC capabilities for your yacht. You cannot
operate it until two of you have GMDSS Operator Licenses.

Larry

Still interested in getting your GMDSS Operator's License? It's not rocket
science:

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/do.html

Don't press the red button without it....(c;