In article ,
(Larry W4CSC) wrote:

protected by a gas tube

That had a tiny bit of Strontium 90 in it to set a bias
for the Ionization of the T/R tube. Couldn't just toss
those Bad Boys in the trash, as they were a Radiation
Hazard if the were broke open.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Hee hee....funny you should mention that, Bruce......

We did a REFTRA in Gitmo back in 66 aboard USS Everglades (AD-24).
She was an old WW2/Korean War destroyer tender with a single screw
turned by two steam turbines and 4 boilers.

The inspectors came into my little cal lab and broke a tube marked
"radioactive" on the deck and said, "Broken Radioactive Tube!", to
which we were supposed to respond with this silly kit to put tape on
the remnants and seal it all up in a can for disposal, probably with
major reactor parts.

Ol' Larry whips out his radiation counter from a nearby bin, passes it
over the tube guts and declares it non-radioactive....sweeps it up and
dumps it in the sh!tcan.....(c;

"OK, smart boy, I'll be back!", declares the 1st class PO doing the
test......

That poor guy broke half the tubes on the ship, all the way up to the
major hydrogen thyratrons out of radars we didn't even have trying to
find a tube that would make my geiger counter show SOME
reaction.....NO-GO.

He finally says, "Well, if we COULD have found a radioactive tube,
what would you have done?" "Oh, now you ask. I'd have got out this
kit (producing kit from its place) and done this.", I declared.

I didn't have the heart to tell him NONE of the tube PARTS is
radioactive....just the gas that WAS in it before he broke it. The
gas was gone so it was a non-issue.....(c;

Try it for yourself. Get a hydrogen thyratron that's been firing a
10MW beast for a few years and measure it for yourself.

I don't know where NAV gets these crazy, paranoid ideas.....(sigh)

The big klystrons and maggies stop radiating Xrays as soon as you turn
'em off, too. Asst Chief Engineer at WTAT-24, our Fox affiliate
running 5MW ERP from a 160KW UHF transmitter has 2 klystrons over 7'
tall to the top of the boiler that cools 'em. They run 'em until the
filament fails at $32K/copy.....



On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:58:27 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

In article ,
(Larry W4CSC) wrote:

protected by a gas tube

That had a tiny bit of Strontium 90 in it to set a bias
for the Ionization of the T/R tube. Couldn't just toss
those Bad Boys in the trash, as they were a Radiation
Hazard if the were broke open.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @


Larry W4CSC
POWER is our friend!

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
Hee hee....funny you should mention that, Bruce......

Ol' Larry whips out his radiation counter from a nearby bin, passes it
over the tube guts and declares it non-radioactive....sweeps it up and
dumps it in the sh!tcan.....(c;
/
I didn't have the heart to tell him NONE of the tube PARTS is
radioactive....just the gas that WAS in it before he broke it. The
gas was gone so it was a non-issue.....(c;
/
I don't know where NAV gets these crazy, paranoid ideas.....(sigh)

Larry, very funny story! ...but not at all accurate w/r to detection of
radioactive material, the type and emissions of which your "geiger counter"
was never designed to detect.

While we could have played similar games with inspectors, the weapons and
propulsion engineers that inspected my old missile submarine would probably
have missed the humour. ;-)

Jack in Virginia Beach

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:24:25 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
Hee hee....funny you should mention that, Bruce......

Ol' Larry whips out his radiation counter from a nearby bin, passes it
over the tube guts and declares it non-radioactive....sweeps it up and
dumps it in the sh!tcan.....(c;
/
I didn't have the heart to tell him NONE of the tube PARTS is
radioactive....just the gas that WAS in it before he broke it. The
gas was gone so it was a non-issue.....(c;
/
I don't know where NAV gets these crazy, paranoid ideas.....(sigh)

Larry, very funny story! ...but not at all accurate w/r to detection of
radioactive material, the type and emissions of which your "geiger counter"
was never designed to detect.

Which type of emissions is that? The Synctillation counter I had was
the same one used on nuke subs at the time. Are there quarks or
exotic isotopes of Cornucopium radiating from plain old thyratrons??


While we could have played similar games with inspectors, the weapons and
propulsion engineers that inspected my old missile submarine would probably
have missed the humour. ;-)

Our ship was powered by sweat and bunker C oil you had to boil before
you could spray it into the 1945 boilers. We had some clocks with
radium dials, though...(c;


Larry W4CSC
POWER is our friend!

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
Hee hee....funny you should mention that, Bruce......

Ol' Larry whips out his radiation counter from a nearby bin, passes it
over the tube guts and declares it non-radioactive....sweeps it up and
dumps it in the sh!tcan.....(c;
/
I didn't have the heart to tell him NONE of the tube PARTS is
radioactive....just the gas that WAS in it before he broke it. The
gas was gone so it was a non-issue.....(c;
/
I don't know where NAV gets these crazy, paranoid ideas.....(sigh)

Larry, very funny story! ...but not at all accurate w/r to detection of
radioactive material, the type and emissions of which your "geiger
counter"
was never designed to detect.

Which type of emissions is that? The Synctillation counter I had was
the same one used on nuke subs at the time. Are there quarks or
exotic isotopes of Cornucopium radiating from plain old thyratrons??


While we could have played similar games with inspectors, the weapons and
propulsion engineers that inspected my old missile submarine would
probably
have missed the humour. ;-)

Our ship was powered by sweat and bunker C oil you had to boil before
you could spray it into the 1945 boilers. We had some clocks with
radium dials, though...(c;
Larry W4CSC
POWER is our friend!

They were slightly radioactive, even broken, but not so much that any
"geiger counter" could detect anything. We used instrument hundreds of times
more sensitive on submarines, and measured air, urine and swipe samples for
alpha, beta and gamma detection, accordingly. Some of those processes
involved superheating the pressurized samples in equipment that detected
levels to small to be discussed. And of course we wore two different types
of personal-detectors, according to the area of work performed on the boat.

As to disposal of broken tubes, even today, your method seems acceptable to
everyone except the frantic and frustrated emergency drill inspector, who
I'm sure never forgot you.

FAA radar tube disposure methods: I had a good laugh when I saw your idea
here ;-)

(1) Handling. There is no external radiation hazard due to normal handling
of radioactive electron tubes.

(2) Storage. Exercise judgment and caution to avoid large quantity storage
and possible breakage. Under no condition shall random storage in boxes or
bins be permitted. All storage areas for large quantities of radioactive
tubes, such as the FAA Depot, shall be clearly marked with radiation warning
signs as described in paragraph 24.d.

(3) Decontamination. In the event of breakage, decontamination shall proceed
as follows:

(a) Dust. Avoid agitation of dust in order to minimize dispersion of the
radioactive material. Internal exposure by ingestion and/or inhalation
should be avoided. Should either or both occur, contact the cognizant
Aviation Medicine Office.

(b) Tube Fragments. Retrieve tube fragments with forceps or pliers and
dispose of them as normal waste. Clean instruments with a dampened cloth. If
forceps or pliers are not available, use gloves and dispose of them
immediately after use. Do not handle tube fragments with bare hands.

Jack
former mushroom-cloud farmer

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:59:54 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

I suppose my point to them was that the radioactivity in a
"radioactive tube" wasn't any where near the radioactivity of the
little counter check source on the side of its box. As noone was
going to eat the "radioactive" parts of the tube, it was really no
stretch of the imagination to believe it was a hazard to humans, as it
was many times lower than the background radiation from the Big Bang
we COULD easily measure....



Larry W4CSC
POWER is our friend!

Be aware that both regulation agencies in Canada and the US have
de-regulated certain amounts of radioactive material.

Our TR-limiters at work were de-regulated. We didn't have to worry about
signage or breakage (leave the room for the day if you're worried). As far
as I know they could be toss in the dump. I don't htink you could
incinerate them though (don't know about that!).

sb

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Larry W4CSC) wrote:

protected by a gas tube

That had a tiny bit of Strontium 90 in it to set a bias
for the Ionization of the T/R tube. Couldn't just toss
those Bad Boys in the trash, as they were a Radiation
Hazard if the were broke open.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Oh ya....you have strontium 90 in those old watches who's hands glowed in
teh dark too!


"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Larry W4CSC) wrote:

protected by a gas tube

That had a tiny bit of Strontium 90 in it to set a bias
for the Ionization of the T/R tube. Couldn't just toss
those Bad Boys in the trash, as they were a Radiation
Hazard if the were broke open.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:12:13 GMT, "SB" wrote:

Oh ya....you have strontium 90 in those old watches who's hands glowed in
teh dark too!

Back in the 1960's, Moravia Central School (Moravia, NY) had an
NRC-licensed tiny Cobalt 60 source kept in the school safe in a
lead-lined box our physics teacher, Mr Dewey, used to use as a source
to irradiate all the Junior classes.

Mr Dewey was an old WW2 B-17 pilot who could tell us fascinated kids
some real war stories of bombers and Germany. He had the schrapnel
scars and Purple Hearts to prove it. The other fascinating thing he
had was his flyer's radium-dial wris****ch, which was so "hot" he had
to put it in the lead-lined box so you could detect the radiation from
the NRC-licensed Cobalt 60 source.

Mr Dewey died of old age, not from the burn spot on his wrist from the
Gamma rays coming through the back of that watch. His arm looked
slightly sunburned around the watch, but was still darker color right
through the back of it.....

I'll never forget all the great things he taught me in physics and
chemistry....over 40 years later.



Larry W4CSC
POWER is our friend!

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:12:13 GMT, "SB" wrote:

Oh ya....you have strontium 90 in those old watches who's hands glowed in
teh dark too!

Back in the 1960's, Moravia Central School (Moravia, NY) had an
NRC-licensed tiny Cobalt 60 source kept in the school safe in a
lead-lined box our physics teacher, Mr Dewey, used to use as a source
to irradiate all the Junior classes.

Mr Dewey was an old WW2 B-17 pilot who could tell us fascinated kids
some real war stories of bombers and Germany. He had the schrapnel
scars and Purple Hearts to prove it. The other fascinating thing he
had was his flyer's radium-dial wris****ch, which was so "hot" he had
to put it in the lead-lined box so you could detect the radiation from
the NRC-licensed Cobalt 60 source.

Mr Dewey died of old age, not from the burn spot on his wrist from the
Gamma rays coming through the back of that watch. His arm looked
slightly sunburned around the watch, but was still darker color right
through the back of it.....

I'll never forget all the great things he taught me in physics and
chemistry....over 40 years later.



Larry W4CSC
POWER is our friend!


A quick overview of Radium dial-painting can be found at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr6/radiumdials.htm

And here's a set of pictures of luminescent products. Wow, glow-in-the-dark
buttons!
http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/r...uminescent.htm

Clearly, it was more hazardous to make these items than to use them.

Ed