"Charlie J" wrote in message
...
Gary-
The ideas that you are advancing may work...however they absolutely fly in
the face of all conventional wisdom wrt installing an end fed antenna
system
on a non-steel boat using a modern antenna coupler/tuner. ....

You're both right. Manufacturers of land-based vertical HF antennas (eg
Butternut) mount the radiator very close to the ground (ie, inches) with
radials to properly couple it's image to the soil. The same would be true
of HF verticals on boats were it not for the problem of waves. Ideally, the
ground terminal of the antenna would be touching the water and the antenna
attached to its top, sort of like a "bugcatcher" but we instead have to put
the bottom of the radiator undesireably high to keep it from being
periodically drown - and that's where the compromises begin. These
compromises work, some amazingly well.

Conventional wisdom puts the antenna as high as possible. That's because
most boaters and their tech's are used to VHF, which propagates line of
sight, and thus needs height for max range. But HF is a different beast. It
propagates by ground wave, NVIS and ducting so HF antenna height doesn't
really matter. But don't say that here!! Half the "experts" here believe
that electrons have no mass or inertia (c:

Regards, K3DWW

In article ,
"Vito" wrote:

You're both right.

Well not really. There is a "Giant Difference" between Land Based HF and
MF Rf Ground systems and those that can be constructed aboard ANY Vessel.
Radials in a Land Based Antenna System aren't designed to "properly
couple it's image to the soil." They are to provide that image for the
antenna system. The soil has very little to do with the Rf Gound System
in a conventional Marconi Antenna System. If it were otherwise one
would expect to see a lot more "Soil Remediation" going on around such
Antenna sites, like adding Salt to the area, or Chicken wire, bonded to
the radial system. Waves also really don't have a lot to do with
Antenna systemm in the Marine Enviorment.

"Conventional wisdom puts the antenna as high as possible."

Nope, not really. The antenna just needs to have sufficent length,
so as to be able to resonate at the Lowest Frequency, of desired
communications. Likely 2182.0 Khz for most folks. That would be a bit
longer that 75 Feet, for most common Endfeed Wire Antenna tuners built
since the early 70's. Now stringing 75 feet of wire and whip means
going up very high on most small vessels, and that is why "As High as
Possible" is the CV for MF systems.

Other than that, you are in the Ball Park.


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote

Well not really. There is a "Giant Difference" between Land Based HF and
MF Rf Ground systems and those that can be constructed aboard ANY Vessel.

Yes

Radials in a Land Based Antenna System aren't designed to "properly
couple it's image to the soil." They are to provide that image for the
antenna system. The soil has very little to do with the Rf Gound System
in a conventional Marconi Antenna System. If it were otherwise one
would expect to see a lot more "Soil Remediation" going on around such
Antenna sites, like adding Salt to the area, or Chicken wire, bonded to
the radial system.

On the contrary. They (buried radials) provide coupling. The soil itself
provides the image. That's why there is, in fact, a lot of "Soil
Remediation" - like adding salts and chicken wire and grin even radials.

Waves also really don't have a lot to do with Antenna system in the Marine
Enviorment.

Unless they put the bottom xx feet of the antenna under water (c:


"Conventional wisdom puts the antenna as high as possible."

Nope, not really. The antenna just needs to have sufficent length,....

Trouble is few boat owners or installation techs understand what you are
saying. They believe higher is better as a matter of faith. Thus .....