Well, I had a tech come out and check out my system. M-802 with the
automatic antenna tuner. He said that the radio is only putting out about 50
watts, and should be putting out 100-150 watts, so he thinks something is
wrong with the radio (new, right outta the box...)

He also mentioned that the automatic antenna tuner should be closer to the
ground plate. In the Icom manuals, they said to mount it as close to the
antenna as possible, so it's on the flying bridge, and the conductor from
the tuner to the antenna is about 3'. I can move it about halfway between
the antenna and the ground plate in the engine room. Who's right?

The final thing is that I ran a 2" ground foil strip from the radio to the
ground plate as well, as required by the ICOM manual... he said this isn't
necessary and should be disconnected. I'm really confused now.

Help!

At this point, I'm going to take the radio in to the dealer and have it
checked out and anything corrected as needed, then see how things work
before I start moving the tuner around.

I recently setup one of these for a friend now on his way to Hawaii. I found
that the autotune was turned off as it came from the box. Make sure it is on
or it will not use the tuner. Did the tech say what the SWR was between the
radio and tuner? Was the radio set for full power?

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Well, I had a tech come out and check out my system. M-802 with the
automatic antenna tuner. He said that the radio is only putting out about
50
watts, and should be putting out 100-150 watts, so he thinks something is
wrong with the radio (new, right outta the box...)

He also mentioned that the automatic antenna tuner should be closer to the
ground plate. In the Icom manuals, they said to mount it as close to the
antenna as possible, so it's on the flying bridge, and the conductor from
the tuner to the antenna is about 3'. I can move it about halfway between
the antenna and the ground plate in the engine room. Who's right?

The final thing is that I ran a 2" ground foil strip from the radio to the
ground plate as well, as required by the ICOM manual... he said this isn't
necessary and should be disconnected. I'm really confused now.

Help!

At this point, I'm going to take the radio in to the dealer and have it
checked out and anything corrected as needed, then see how things work
before I start moving the tuner around.

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:35:11 -0800, "David K6DLW"
wrote:

I recently setup one of these for a friend now on his way to Hawaii. I found
that the autotune was turned off as it came from the box. Make sure it is on
or it will not use the tuner. Did the tech say what the SWR was between the
radio and tuner? Was the radio set for full power?

I agree with David. Make sure the display says TUNE not THRU, which
look too similar for comfort. Try it on different frequencies across
the bands, too.

When you press the TUNE button, make sure it tunes, too. If the
display WON'T go into TUNE and you don't hear relays clicking away
madly in the tuner, the problem is the cheap-assed inline connectors
that hook up the control cables. I've had to redo our control plugs,
already, and have raised hell with Icom over this cheapness crap.

I assume you have the AT-140 with the pigtail control cable, right?
If so, get your technician back to the boat and eliminate it before it
strands you. Stupid ICOM, STUPID. Have him take the tuner cover off
and unsolder the control cable pigtail wires from the main PC board.
He can do it very easily as there are soldering loops in the main
board. You can replace the pigtail without taking the main board out
of the tuner. Now, run the control cable through the watertight
fitting and solder the appropriate wires straight to the appropriate 4
solder loops, eliminating this stupid, sure-to-fail board plug made to
corrode. Unfortunately, the one on the radio is still there (same
connector stupidity). Damned Icom Cheapskates. As the boat vibrates
around or something bends the control cable connector against the plug
in the radio, it will open up and have to be tightened inside the
connector again. They're way too fragile! If I have to do ours
again, I'm gonna solder the damned wires together to stop it,
bypassing this plug.

I'd bet your tuner isn't engaging......

Another thing I've noticed on our M802 is RF interference into the
microphone on certain frequencies. It's easy to see. Key the mic and
whistle loudly into it. The LED power output display should all light
up and STAY lit until you stop the whistle. When the RF gets into the
mic jack, you'll whistle and see this display pulsing in power output
as the RF jams the mic circuit with interference. I know it's the mic
circuit because I can wad the coilcord up in my hand and get a good
report and display reading. People on the air will report your audio
is all distorted. You may be experiencing some effects from this RF
feedback problem, too, reducing power output. On our boat, it seems
worse in the lower frequencies, below 4 Mhz. The radio is about 9'
from the tuner at the bottom of the insulated backstay. The
connecting lead from backstay to tuner is about 1' long.

DO NOT MOVE THE TUNER away from the antenna! I don't know where he
got this nonsense, but the tuner needs to be as close to the antenna
as possible. The more ground connections to the ground terminal on
the tuner, the better. Broadcast AM stations with similar antennas
use 36 ground radials laid out around 360 degrees, 1/4 wavelength
long, to get a great ground. On a boat, of course, this isn't
possible. What IS possible and works really great is to use a
trailing ground radial, about 100' long is great. Use insulated wire
sealed at the trailing end to keep the seawater out and as big a guage
as you can. I'm using 120' of #12 bright orange wire with a little
plastic cup on the end as a sort of sea anchor to pull on it as the
boat moves through the water. That holds it out flat very nicely.
The effect is you have created a huge L antenna with the vertical your
insulated backstay (or whip or whatever) and the horizontal part
trailing 120' out behind the boat, with the tuner at the feedpoint.
My ham radio signal reports increase nearly 10 dB with the trailing
ground deployed. Of course, don't forget to reel it in before you
back down or drag it over those obstructions. It works great, also,
at anchor. Ground the tuner to your anchor chain rode with a jumper
cable. The trailing wire will wrap up the anchor in the tide. At the
dock, if you like to play as I do, simply drop a ground wire over the
side and let it lay on the bottom with a sinker to hold it.
Otherwise, Lionheart's tuner is hooked to the engine block below it
with a piece of painted copper flashing from the hardware store.



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"

In article ,
"Keith" wrote:

Well, I had a tech come out and check out my system. M-802 with the
automatic antenna tuner. He said that the radio is only putting out about 50
watts, and should be putting out 100-150 watts, so he thinks something is
wrong with the radio (new, right outta the box...)

He also mentioned that the automatic antenna tuner should be closer to the
ground plate. In the Icom manuals, they said to mount it as close to the
antenna as possible, so it's on the flying bridge, and the conductor from
the tuner to the antenna is about 3'. I can move it about halfway between
the antenna and the ground plate in the engine room. Who's right?

The final thing is that I ran a 2" ground foil strip from the radio to the
ground plate as well, as required by the ICOM manual... he said this isn't
necessary and should be disconnected. I'm really confused now.

Help!

At this point, I'm going to take the radio in to the dealer and have it
checked out and anything corrected as needed, then see how things work
before I start moving the tuner around.



Hello Keith,


I don't know the guy you hired to do your HF Radio work, but from the
sounds of things, he isn't one of the greatest Tech's to walk down the
dock. First thing, is to transmit into a Dummy Load, and see if the
radio is capable of putting out it's rated power, into a perfect antenna.
If yes, the problem isn't in the radio. If no, then the radio needs to
be realigned. (tuned) Second, understand that any SSB Radio maybe
transmitting rated power, and it doesn't nessesarily show up on a
non-peak reading Wattmeter. There are many reasons to have the
autotuner mounted at this polace or that place. Most are related to
what type of RF Ground System your vessel has. From a strictly RF
standopoint, closer to the Ground Plate is better, and 2" copper foil
is minimal for any connection to a RF Ground System. what is the length
of the copper foil in feet? The longer the foil, the worse the ground
impedance will be, and the harder the tuner will have to work to tune
the antenna. You don't tell us anything about the vessel construction,
RF Ground System, or antenna system. Knoing these would be critical
in advising you on your installation.
Points of interest.
1. If your foil is longer than 3 or 4 Feet, then what you are asking
that autotuner to do the almost impossible. Think it as if the tuner
wan't sitting at ground but at some point above ground and that point is
the length of the copper foil. Lets say 15 Ft, as you say it is on the
Flying Bridge, and that is say 15 Ft above Waterline. Now you
effectivly have the tuner in the middle of a diopole antenna and trying
to reconcile impedances on both antenna and ground at the same time.
BAD IDEA. The firmware in the tuner only looks at the antenna
impedance, with refernce to the Ground lug on the tuner. If the ground
lug isn't at RF Ground, then the tuner firmware gets REALLY FUNNY DATA
from it's internal sensers and it doesn't deal with funny data well.
2. If the tuner is moved to a place, say 3 ft from the RF Ground, then
you must add wire to the antenna, and that wire becomes part of the
antenna, and therefore gets tuned by the tuner. This is a GOOD THING,
if people, or Ground don't come to close to it while you are
transmitting. By adding wire (length) to the antenna you are effectivly
lowering the frequency that the tuner will tune. This again is a GOOD
THING, on a plastic or wood vessel.
3. As Larry and Jim have stated, check and BE SURE, that the radio is
in TUNER MODE, and not THRU MODE. If your in THRU MODE, the tuner isn't
even going look at your antenna, let alone try and tune it.


More information!


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Leave the tuner as close to the antenna as practical. That's much
more important than the distance to the ground plate.

OK, let's see if I can give feedback to all of your notes.

Yes, the radio is set to "tune", and on full power. I will double check to
make sure the tech didn't change either of the settings. I do not know what
the SWR's were. The bad part was that I had been trying to hook up with this
guy for awhile... and I wasn't here when he did the checks.

When I hit "tune", I sure don't hear any clicks or any other evidence that
it's doing anything. The control cable was the one thing I DIDN'T do myself,
so I'm beginning to suspect that as Larry pointed out. I remember that topic
on here before. The little pins were so tiny I couldn't hardly see them much
less solder them! I think I'll work on this as Larry suggests.

The Antenna is a Digital fiberglass... don't remember the exact length, but
what the folks around here recommended... The boat is fiberglass, a Krogen
42. The 2" copper foil runs about 12-15' from the tuner on the flying bridge
down to a big Wunderbar (sp?). The bar is a scintered bronze plate, about
24" x 6" or so. Nothing else is connected or grounded to this, except that I
also have a 2" foil strip that runs to the radio and connects to the ground
on the back, as shown in in ICOM installation manual.

I think I'm going to redo the control cable as Larry suggests, and go from
there.

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith" wrote:

Well, I had a tech come out and check out my system. M-802 with the
automatic antenna tuner. He said that the radio is only putting out
about 50
watts, and should be putting out 100-150 watts, so he thinks something
is
wrong with the radio (new, right outta the box...)

He also mentioned that the automatic antenna tuner should be closer to
the
ground plate. In the Icom manuals, they said to mount it as close to the
antenna as possible, so it's on the flying bridge, and the conductor
from
the tuner to the antenna is about 3'. I can move it about halfway
between
the antenna and the ground plate in the engine room. Who's right?

The final thing is that I ran a 2" ground foil strip from the radio to
the
ground plate as well, as required by the ICOM manual... he said this
isn't
necessary and should be disconnected. I'm really confused now.

Help!

At this point, I'm going to take the radio in to the dealer and have it
checked out and anything corrected as needed, then see how things work
before I start moving the tuner around.



Hello Keith,


I don't know the guy you hired to do your HF Radio work, but from the
sounds of things, he isn't one of the greatest Tech's to walk down the
dock. First thing, is to transmit into a Dummy Load, and see if the
radio is capable of putting out it's rated power, into a perfect antenna.
If yes, the problem isn't in the radio. If no, then the radio needs to
be realigned. (tuned) Second, understand that any SSB Radio maybe
transmitting rated power, and it doesn't nessesarily show up on a
non-peak reading Wattmeter. There are many reasons to have the
autotuner mounted at this polace or that place. Most are related to
what type of RF Ground System your vessel has. From a strictly RF
standopoint, closer to the Ground Plate is better, and 2" copper foil
is minimal for any connection to a RF Ground System. what is the length
of the copper foil in feet? The longer the foil, the worse the ground
impedance will be, and the harder the tuner will have to work to tune
the antenna. You don't tell us anything about the vessel construction,
RF Ground System, or antenna system. Knoing these would be critical
in advising you on your installation.
Points of interest.
1. If your foil is longer than 3 or 4 Feet, then what you are asking
that autotuner to do the almost impossible. Think it as if the tuner
wan't sitting at ground but at some point above ground and that point is
the length of the copper foil. Lets say 15 Ft, as you say it is on the
Flying Bridge, and that is say 15 Ft above Waterline. Now you
effectivly have the tuner in the middle of a diopole antenna and trying
to reconcile impedances on both antenna and ground at the same time.
BAD IDEA. The firmware in the tuner only looks at the antenna
impedance, with refernce to the Ground lug on the tuner. If the ground
lug isn't at RF Ground, then the tuner firmware gets REALLY FUNNY DATA
from it's internal sensers and it doesn't deal with funny data well.
2. If the tuner is moved to a place, say 3 ft from the RF Ground, then
you must add wire to the antenna, and that wire becomes part of the
antenna, and therefore gets tuned by the tuner. This is a GOOD THING,
if people, or Ground don't come to close to it while you are
transmitting. By adding wire (length) to the antenna you are effectivly
lowering the frequency that the tuner will tune. This again is a GOOD
THING, on a plastic or wood vessel.
3. As Larry and Jim have stated, check and BE SURE, that the radio is
in TUNER MODE, and not THRU MODE. If your in THRU MODE, the tuner isn't
even going look at your antenna, let alone try and tune it.


More information!


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Keith,

I'm trying to visualize where the base of your antenna is. Ideally
the tuner should be mounted at or below the base. If the tuner is on
the flybridge and the base is down near deck level, then your antenna
feed is running down, and more or less parallel to the antenna itself.
If so, this may be the source of your problem.

On the other hand, if the antenna base is on the fly bridge near the
antenna tuner, it should be OK assuming a good ground and proper hook
up with the tuner control cable.

=============================================

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:37:04 -0600, "Keith"
wrote:

OK, let's see if I can give feedback to all of your notes.

Yes, the radio is set to "tune", and on full power. I will double check to
make sure the tech didn't change either of the settings. I do not know what
the SWR's were. The bad part was that I had been trying to hook up with this
guy for awhile... and I wasn't here when he did the checks.

When I hit "tune", I sure don't hear any clicks or any other evidence that
it's doing anything. The control cable was the one thing I DIDN'T do myself,
so I'm beginning to suspect that as Larry pointed out. I remember that topic
on here before. The little pins were so tiny I couldn't hardly see them much
less solder them! I think I'll work on this as Larry suggests.

The Antenna is a Digital fiberglass... don't remember the exact length, but
what the folks around here recommended... The boat is fiberglass, a Krogen
42. The 2" copper foil runs about 12-15' from the tuner on the flying bridge
down to a big Wunderbar (sp?). The bar is a scintered bronze plate, about
24" x 6" or so. Nothing else is connected or grounded to this, except that I
also have a 2" foil strip that runs to the radio and connects to the ground
on the back, as shown in in ICOM installation manual.

I think I'm going to redo the control cable as Larry suggests, and go from
there.

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith" wrote:

Well, I had a tech come out and check out my system. M-802 with the
automatic antenna tuner. He said that the radio is only putting out
about 50
watts, and should be putting out 100-150 watts, so he thinks something
is
wrong with the radio (new, right outta the box...)

He also mentioned that the automatic antenna tuner should be closer to
the
ground plate. In the Icom manuals, they said to mount it as close to the
antenna as possible, so it's on the flying bridge, and the conductor
from
the tuner to the antenna is about 3'. I can move it about halfway
between
the antenna and the ground plate in the engine room. Who's right?

The final thing is that I ran a 2" ground foil strip from the radio to
the
ground plate as well, as required by the ICOM manual... he said this
isn't
necessary and should be disconnected. I'm really confused now.

Help!

At this point, I'm going to take the radio in to the dealer and have it
checked out and anything corrected as needed, then see how things work
before I start moving the tuner around.



Hello Keith,


I don't know the guy you hired to do your HF Radio work, but from the
sounds of things, he isn't one of the greatest Tech's to walk down the
dock. First thing, is to transmit into a Dummy Load, and see if the
radio is capable of putting out it's rated power, into a perfect antenna.
If yes, the problem isn't in the radio. If no, then the radio needs to
be realigned. (tuned) Second, understand that any SSB Radio maybe
transmitting rated power, and it doesn't nessesarily show up on a
non-peak reading Wattmeter. There are many reasons to have the
autotuner mounted at this polace or that place. Most are related to
what type of RF Ground System your vessel has. From a strictly RF
standopoint, closer to the Ground Plate is better, and 2" copper foil
is minimal for any connection to a RF Ground System. what is the length
of the copper foil in feet? The longer the foil, the worse the ground
impedance will be, and the harder the tuner will have to work to tune
the antenna. You don't tell us anything about the vessel construction,
RF Ground System, or antenna system. Knoing these would be critical
in advising you on your installation.
Points of interest.
1. If your foil is longer than 3 or 4 Feet, then what you are asking
that autotuner to do the almost impossible. Think it as if the tuner
wan't sitting at ground but at some point above ground and that point is
the length of the copper foil. Lets say 15 Ft, as you say it is on the
Flying Bridge, and that is say 15 Ft above Waterline. Now you
effectivly have the tuner in the middle of a diopole antenna and trying
to reconcile impedances on both antenna and ground at the same time.
BAD IDEA. The firmware in the tuner only looks at the antenna
impedance, with refernce to the Ground lug on the tuner. If the ground
lug isn't at RF Ground, then the tuner firmware gets REALLY FUNNY DATA
from it's internal sensers and it doesn't deal with funny data well.
2. If the tuner is moved to a place, say 3 ft from the RF Ground, then
you must add wire to the antenna, and that wire becomes part of the
antenna, and therefore gets tuned by the tuner. This is a GOOD THING,
if people, or Ground don't come to close to it while you are
transmitting. By adding wire (length) to the antenna you are effectivly
lowering the frequency that the tuner will tune. This again is a GOOD
THING, on a plastic or wood vessel.
3. As Larry and Jim have stated, check and BE SURE, that the radio is
in TUNER MODE, and not THRU MODE. If your in THRU MODE, the tuner isn't
even going look at your antenna, let alone try and tune it.


More information!


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

The ground plate that you have should provide a good ground for the
tuner but you need to move the tuner to within a couple of feet of the
ground plate.
Run your antenna lead down to the tuner. As Bruce said "it will become
part of the antenna".

Trying to use a 15 foot 2" copper strap as a ground lead will not work
well on any frequency. It is much too long and has too much
inductance.

Your antenna has an impedance of only a few ohms on some frequencies.
Your 15 foot ground lead can have an impedance of many times that
depending on the frequency being used. The power gets divided between
your antenna feed impedance and the ground impedance. If the ground
impedance is equal to the antenna impedance, your power is divided
equally between the two. 1/2 of the power is dissipated in the ground
lead and not the antenna. If the ground lead impedance is higher than
the antenna impedance then most of the power goes to the ground lead
and not the antenna.

With the long ground lead that you have you are going to get lots of
RF that gets into wires that you don't want it to. Some of it can make
its way back into the radio, power leads etc. and partially shut down
the radio.

You may have other problems with the radio or system also but you
surly have a too long ground lead problem.

Regards
Gary






On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:37:04 -0600, "Keith"
wrote:

OK, let's see if I can give feedback to all of your notes.

Yes, the radio is set to "tune", and on full power. I will double check to
make sure the tech didn't change either of the settings. I do not know what
the SWR's were. The bad part was that I had been trying to hook up with this
guy for awhile... and I wasn't here when he did the checks.

When I hit "tune", I sure don't hear any clicks or any other evidence that
it's doing anything. The control cable was the one thing I DIDN'T do myself,
so I'm beginning to suspect that as Larry pointed out. I remember that topic
on here before. The little pins were so tiny I couldn't hardly see them much
less solder them! I think I'll work on this as Larry suggests.

The Antenna is a Digital fiberglass... don't remember the exact length, but
what the folks around here recommended... The boat is fiberglass, a Krogen
42. The 2" copper foil runs about 12-15' from the tuner on the flying bridge
down to a big Wunderbar (sp?). The bar is a scintered bronze plate, about
24" x 6" or so. Nothing else is connected or grounded to this, except that I
also have a 2" foil strip that runs to the radio and connects to the ground
on the back, as shown in in ICOM installation manual.

I think I'm going to redo the control cable as Larry suggests, and go from
there.

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith" wrote:

Well, I had a tech come out and check out my system. M-802 with the
automatic antenna tuner. He said that the radio is only putting out
about 50
watts, and should be putting out 100-150 watts, so he thinks something
is
wrong with the radio (new, right outta the box...)

He also mentioned that the automatic antenna tuner should be closer to
the
ground plate. In the Icom manuals, they said to mount it as close to the
antenna as possible, so it's on the flying bridge, and the conductor
from
the tuner to the antenna is about 3'. I can move it about halfway
between
the antenna and the ground plate in the engine room. Who's right?

The final thing is that I ran a 2" ground foil strip from the radio to
the
ground plate as well, as required by the ICOM manual... he said this
isn't
necessary and should be disconnected. I'm really confused now.

Help!

At this point, I'm going to take the radio in to the dealer and have it
checked out and anything corrected as needed, then see how things work
before I start moving the tuner around.



Hello Keith,


I don't know the guy you hired to do your HF Radio work, but from the
sounds of things, he isn't one of the greatest Tech's to walk down the
dock. First thing, is to transmit into a Dummy Load, and see if the
radio is capable of putting out it's rated power, into a perfect antenna.
If yes, the problem isn't in the radio. If no, then the radio needs to
be realigned. (tuned) Second, understand that any SSB Radio maybe
transmitting rated power, and it doesn't nessesarily show up on a
non-peak reading Wattmeter. There are many reasons to have the
autotuner mounted at this polace or that place. Most are related to
what type of RF Ground System your vessel has. From a strictly RF
standopoint, closer to the Ground Plate is better, and 2" copper foil
is minimal for any connection to a RF Ground System. what is the length
of the copper foil in feet? The longer the foil, the worse the ground
impedance will be, and the harder the tuner will have to work to tune
the antenna. You don't tell us anything about the vessel construction,
RF Ground System, or antenna system. Knoing these would be critical
in advising you on your installation.
Points of interest.
1. If your foil is longer than 3 or 4 Feet, then what you are asking
that autotuner to do the almost impossible. Think it as if the tuner
wan't sitting at ground but at some point above ground and that point is
the length of the copper foil. Lets say 15 Ft, as you say it is on the
Flying Bridge, and that is say 15 Ft above Waterline. Now you
effectivly have the tuner in the middle of a diopole antenna and trying
to reconcile impedances on both antenna and ground at the same time.
BAD IDEA. The firmware in the tuner only looks at the antenna
impedance, with refernce to the Ground lug on the tuner. If the ground
lug isn't at RF Ground, then the tuner firmware gets REALLY FUNNY DATA
from it's internal sensers and it doesn't deal with funny data well.
2. If the tuner is moved to a place, say 3 ft from the RF Ground, then
you must add wire to the antenna, and that wire becomes part of the
antenna, and therefore gets tuned by the tuner. This is a GOOD THING,
if people, or Ground don't come to close to it while you are
transmitting. By adding wire (length) to the antenna you are effectivly
lowering the frequency that the tuner will tune. This again is a GOOD
THING, on a plastic or wood vessel.
3. As Larry and Jim have stated, check and BE SURE, that the radio is
in TUNER MODE, and not THRU MODE. If your in THRU MODE, the tuner isn't
even going look at your antenna, let alone try and tune it.


More information!


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Why do you say that?
The lead that goes from the antenna tuner to the antenna becomes just
as much a part of the antenna as the rest of the antenna wire.

It is much more important to have a low inductance (short) ground
lead.

Regards
Gary



On 15 Nov 2003 12:10:55 -0800, (Mark Reichow)
wrote:

Leave the tuner as close to the antenna as practical. That's much
more important than the distance to the ground plate.

Why does "the tuner need to be as close to the antenna as possible"?
The antenna lead is always part of the antenna. If the tuner is far
away from the ground the ground is part of the antenna which is
unwanted.

It doesn't matter how long the lead from the tuner to the antenna is
but it does matter how long the ground lead is.

By the way, most AM broadcast stations use 120 radials not 36. And
they are DIRECTLY under the antenna tuner! Very short ground lead.
Hint, Hint.

Trailing a 120 foot wire behind the boat is like soldering a 120 foot
long piece of wire to a sheet of copper a mile or so square, to try
and make a lower resistance connection to the copper.

A small plate a few inches into the sea water will provide as low an
impedance as you are going to get. Sea water is a much better
conductor providing a much lower inductance than a long piece of wire
ever will.

The important thing is to have the lead between your water connection
as short and as large as possible to keep its inductance down.

Regards
Gary



On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 14:29:18 GMT, (Larry W4CSC) wrote:

DO NOT MOVE THE TUNER away from the antenna! I don't know where he
got this nonsense, but the tuner needs to be as close to the antenna
as possible. The more ground connections to the ground terminal on
the tuner, the better. Broadcast AM stations with similar antennas
use 36 ground radials laid out around 360 degrees, 1/4 wavelength
long, to get a great ground. On a boat, of course, this isn't
possible. What IS possible and works really great is to use a
trailing ground radial, about 100' long is great. Use insulated wire
sealed at the trailing end to keep the seawater out and as big a guage
as you can. I'm using 120' of #12 bright orange wire with a little
plastic cup on the end as a sort of sea anchor to pull on it as the
boat moves through the water. That holds it out flat very nicely.
The effect is you have created a huge L antenna with the vertical your
insulated backstay (or whip or whatever) and the horizontal part
trailing 120' out behind the boat, with the tuner at the feedpoint.
My ham radio signal reports increase nearly 10 dB with the trailing
ground deployed. Of course, don't forget to reel it in before you
back down or drag it over those obstructions. It works great, also,
at anchor. Ground the tuner to your anchor chain rode with a jumper
cable. The trailing wire will wrap up the anchor in the tide. At the
dock, if you like to play as I do, simply drop a ground wire over the
side and let it lay on the bottom with a sinker to hold it.
Otherwise, Lionheart's tuner is hooked to the engine block below it
with a piece of painted copper flashing from the hardware store.



Larry W4CSC

"Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!"