Dennis Pogson wrote:

If the dollar contiues it's downward plunge, I'll soon be able to afford
one!

I think the 802.11b and Bluetooth will become a VHS vs. Betamax battle, with
Bluetooth well in the driving seat at present. Anyone disagree?


I disagree. They are apples and oranges. Wireless is for networking
and Bluetooth for connectivity. Both are useful, but they are for very
different purposes. More info he

http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/...cles/art_1.htm
http://www.palowireless.com/infotooth/tutorial.asp

"Wired" magazine has an interesting article in the current issue about
the vulnerabilities of Bluetooth. Pretty easy to steal data from or
plant viruses on Bluetooth devices (phones, pda's, etc.).

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com

"Jack Erbes" wrote in message
...
I disagree. They are apples and oranges. Wireless is for networking
and Bluetooth for connectivity. Both are useful, but they are for very
different purposes. More info he

You can also setup a Piconet with Bluetooth.

http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/...cles/art_1.htm
http://www.palowireless.com/infotooth/tutorial.asp

"Wired" magazine has an interesting article in the current issue about
the vulnerabilities of Bluetooth. Pretty easy to steal data from or
plant viruses on Bluetooth devices (phones, pda's, etc.).

Being able to plant a virus on a phone is not the fault of bluetooth. It's
the fault of the phone designers who let java stuff to be downloaded onto a
phone.

Meindert

I think the 802.11b and Bluetooth will become a VHS vs. Betamax
battle, with
Bluetooth well in the driving seat at present. Anyone disagree?

Hi Dennis,

When we built the device we considered both Bluetooth and 802.11. One
of our requirements was supporting multiple devices simultaneously
wirelessly (mainly laptops but also PDA's). Bluetooth can't do that
using the serial profile. You can only have one device (with the serial
profile) connected to the server at a time (like a virtual serial
cable).

At around the same time we were talking with some interested parties
(mostly in the US) and all of them already had laptops with 802.11 and
a few had wireless PDA's, the majority with 802.11. In the US Bluetooth
hasn't taken off nearly as much as I would have hoped. We also wanted a
strong transmitter for good reception on larger yachts and commodity
802.11 200mW transmitters and external antenna's are more readily
available in the US.

Anyhow, if the bluetooth serial profile had supported a special 1 to
many mode I think we would have gone with Bluetooth. Once we realized
we were going to probably do it over TCP/IP anyhow (since our next
planned product is a dual wireless instruments server and wireless
access client to connect to shoreside internet while at anchor), then
802.11 became a more natural fit for us.

Anyhow, that's the background of why we ended up going 802.11 instead
of Bluetooth.

-Todd
http://www.marinewireless.us

"thuss" wrote in message
ups.com...
When we built the device we considered both Bluetooth and 802.11. One
of our requirements was supporting multiple devices simultaneously
wirelessly (mainly laptops but also PDA's). Bluetooth can't do that
using the serial profile. You can only have one device (with the serial
profile) connected to the server at a time (like a virtual serial
cable).

Yes and no. The serial profile is indeed a point to point connection. But a
BT module as we use, can setup multiple serial profile connections at the
same time, thus making it possible to "connect" more than one device.

At around the same time we were talking with some interested parties
(mostly in the US) and all of them already had laptops with 802.11 and
a few had wireless PDA's, the majority with 802.11. In the US Bluetooth
hasn't taken off nearly as much as I would have hoped.

A pity indeed. Especially if you know how 802.11 drains the batteries of a
PDA. Using a 802.11 connection on a PDA for continuous navigation will give
you 2 hours of service maximum.

Meindert

They are targetted at different markets/requirements. It is invalid to
compare them.

Doug
s/v Callista


"Dennis Pogson" wrote in message
...
thuss wrote:
It's over a year later (and thanks to our beta testers that
couragously installed it on their boats and your ideas on this
newsgroup) but we've finally launched our 802.11 wireless NMEA server
for the general public.

http://www.marinewireless.us/

One of our more extravegant boats has numerous wireless laptops (1 at
the helm drives the autopilot and the others are display only) so that
the owner and guests can see the electronic chart and virtual
instruments anywhere on the boat.

I know our device is on the expensive side so if you're looking for a
less expensive alternative you should also checkout ShipModul's
Bluetooth MUX:

http://www.shipmodul.com/en/

-Todd

Todd wrote:
I just want to say a big thanks to everyone on this group who
responded to my post last year regarding a wireless NMEA navigation
server. Based on your ideas and suggestions we've turned it into a
real product and are currently beta testing it with a number of
boats:

http://www.marinewireless.us

Anyhow, thanks again for all the feedback and help in turning this
idea into reality. Now we'll just have to see if there is any real
market demand for wireless navigation ;-)

-Todd

If the dollar contiues it's downward plunge, I'll soon be able to afford
one!

I think the 802.11b and Bluetooth will become a VHS vs. Betamax battle,
with
Bluetooth well in the driving seat at present. Anyone disagree?

Remove "nospam" from return address.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.798 / Virus Database: 542 - Release Date: 18/11/2004

"thuss" wrote in message
oups.com...
It's over a year later (and thanks to our beta testers that couragously
installed it on their boats and your ideas on this newsgroup) but we've
finally launched our 802.11 wireless NMEA server for the general
public.

http://www.marinewireless.us/

One of our more extravegant boats has numerous wireless laptops (1 at
the helm drives the autopilot and the others are display only) so that
the owner and guests can see the electronic chart and virtual
instruments anywhere on the boat.

I know our device is on the expensive side so if you're looking for a
less expensive alternative you should also checkout ShipModul's
Bluetooth MUX:

http://www.shipmodul.com/en/

-Todd

Todd wrote:
I just want to say a big thanks to everyone on this group who
responded to my post last year regarding a wireless NMEA navigation
server. Based on your ideas and suggestions we've turned it into a
real product and are currently beta testing it with a number of
boats:

http://www.marinewireless.us

Anyhow, thanks again for all the feedback and help in turning this
idea into reality. Now we'll just have to see if there is any real
market demand for wireless navigation ;-)

-Todd


Also consider using a Bluetooth USB-serial replacement cable, the cheapest
and most flexible solution of all.
Connect your GPS or your multiplexer of choice (e.g. a Brookhouse mux) to
your computer via bluetooth. The computer-end plugs in a USB connection, no
blue tooth support in computer required, as this a true "cable replacement".
Other serial connections are also possible, e.g. with your autopilot. A
number of "aircables" can be connected simultaneously.
Wout

"thuss" wrote in
oups.com:

http://www.marinewireless.us/

Wow! $800 is kinda PRICEY! PAY, BOATERS, PAY!

I've had a wireless LAN on board Lionheart, an Amel Sharki 41' ketch, for
some time. A Compaq Latitude notebook runs The Cap'n nav software. The
router is a Netgear 802.11b WEP-protected wireless unit. The serial to
Ethernet interface is plugged directly into it. It's a WebFoot WF-1 serial
to Ethernet interface with full DHCP-enabled automatic IP assignment from
the Netgear router's DHCP server to all its LAN devices. Here's the little
device:
http://www.stayonline.com/serial_to_ethernet/3311.asp
I see it's price here is about $60 more than I paid for ours. The serial
port is hooked to the boat's NMEA multiplexer serial port. Webfoot
includes a "virtual serial port" program that runs on the notebook through
the network. NMEA-enabled programs merely connect to this faux-serial-port
dll spoofing them as COM3 on Windoze 2000. The Cap'n comes online thinking
the virtual serial port is connected directly to the multiplexer. No
interface setup is necessary.

It's a LOT less than $800!!

WebFoot - $110
Netgear Wireless Router - $90
Software virtual serial port - free

We also use a network-shared little HP printer plugged into the same
router's 4-port Ethernet hub. If you're laying on a beanbag in the bow (on
lookout, of course) steering the boat by LAN to the B&G autopilot with The
Cap'n.....you can printout the chart by remote control via the network
router for the person at our nav table....who's plotting on paper chart
with the B&G Yeoman electronic plotting board I stuck to the plotting
table's lift top. I can send that Yeoman waypoints from the wireless
notebook as we toodle along, too....(c;

Hi Larry,

I agree about your comments regarding price, $800 puts it out of the
price range of your average budget cruiser. I would love to see more
people (like you've done) coming out posting HOWTO's on how to create
an inexpensive wireless navigation solution on-board.

We can't compete (nor are we trying to) with hobbyists or highly
technical folks rolling their own using commodity components. For
example our cost on the 200mW 802.11 transmitter and high gain antenna
we include in the unit (which is one of the best out there but only a
small portion of the total unit) costs more than the entire Netgear
wireless access point you make reference to.

Our objective was to create a very high quality single 12-24V unit that
connects to the multiplexer and makes the NMEA data available to
multiple laptops running at the same time. Due to the size of the
market and our costs (including customer support) $800 makes it a break
even proposition for us at the moment. I wish we had the budget and
potential market size of a Netgear or Linksys, in which case we could
offer it for $100.

For folks who want to use Bluetooth or who are on a budget, you can't
go wrong to checkout Shipmodul's Bluetooth multiplexer, it's very cool.
Either way, I'm excited by products of the likes of TackTick and
Shipmodul that are making out of the box wireless navigation a reality
today!

Best,
Todd

--
Marine Wireless
http://www.marinewireless.us


Larry W4CSC wrote:
"thuss" wrote in
oups.com:

http://www.marinewireless.us/

Wow! $800 is kinda PRICEY! PAY, BOATERS, PAY!

I've had a wireless LAN on board Lionheart, an Amel Sharki 41' ketch,
for
some time. A Compaq Latitude notebook runs The Cap'n nav software.
The
router is a Netgear 802.11b WEP-protected wireless unit. The serial
to
Ethernet interface is plugged directly into it. It's a WebFoot WF-1
serial
to Ethernet interface with full DHCP-enabled automatic IP assignment
from
the Netgear router's DHCP server to all its LAN devices. Here's the
little
device:
http://www.stayonline.com/serial_to_ethernet/3311.asp
I see it's price here is about $60 more than I paid for ours. The
serial
port is hooked to the boat's NMEA multiplexer serial port. Webfoot
includes a "virtual serial port" program that runs on the notebook
through
the network. NMEA-enabled programs merely connect to this
faux-serial-port
dll spoofing them as COM3 on Windoze 2000. The Cap'n comes online
thinking
the virtual serial port is connected directly to the multiplexer. No

interface setup is necessary.

It's a LOT less than $800!!

WebFoot - $110
Netgear Wireless Router - $90
Software virtual serial port - free

We also use a network-shared little HP printer plugged into the same
router's 4-port Ethernet hub. If you're laying on a beanbag in the
bow (on
lookout, of course) steering the boat by LAN to the B&G autopilot
with The
Cap'n.....you can printout the chart by remote control via the
network
router for the person at our nav table....who's plotting on paper
chart
with the B&G Yeoman electronic plotting board I stuck to the plotting

table's lift top. I can send that Yeoman waypoints from the wireless
notebook as we toodle along, too....(c;

"thuss" wrote in
ups.com:



For folks who want to use Bluetooth or who are on a budget, you can't
go wrong to checkout Shipmodul's Bluetooth multiplexer, it's very cool.
Either way, I'm excited by products of the likes of TackTick and
Shipmodul that are making out of the box wireless navigation a reality
today!

Best,
Todd


Now, if we could just DUMP all this old serial, one talker, crap and get
"them" to put in a DHCP compatible TCP/IP addressable port on every piece
of marine electronics....oh wouldn't that be nice....(c;

Talking to marine electronics reminds me of talking to a Commodore 64 with
no tape drive....

I'm not sure Bluetooth is the answer. Bluetooth doesn't have enough RANGE,
made for 32 ft like it is. That's 32 ft of FREE space, not 32 ft buried in
the wiring of a boat with all the noises generated by all the unshielded,
plastic-encased electronic transmitters square-waving the spectrum.

No, just bury the Ethernet cabling into the hull to a nice router/hub
system and plug all the toys into it. Any toy can talk to any other toy
through the IP addresses the router has a virtual unlimited (not 16) number
of. No conflicts with too many talkers and the packets are all taken care
of by the system. 802.11x wireless is fine. All the operational notebooks
are already configured to let the ship's DHCP server automatically
configure them, whether they be hard plugged into a port in your stateroom,
the bridge, the salon or on wireless laid out next to you in your deck
chair. No "interface" is necessary and the world is already full of off-
the-shelf stuff to make it happen.

Hell, we can even connect the ship's VoIP phones and Satphone data ports to
everything. Who would need the mostly-nonfunctional GMDSS, which I don't
think will ever work properly, because of its idiotic limitations? Got an
emergency aboard? No problem. Press the red-button and the ShipLAN calls
USCG's server...DIRECTLY...to report our position. Pickup any phone on the
boat and talk from our VoIP phones to the USCG operator-on-duty. That
wouldn't be new technology. It's already installed! All I need to make it
happen is Ethernet-enabled marine instruments.....like industry has been
using for years.

Of course, this would require NMEA's manufacturers to stop leaving
unshielded, unbalanced wires hanging out of some $50, proprietary rubber
plug noone can get after the manufacturer loses interest in this
model.....(c;

Bluetooth is too weak to depend upon for life-or-death data. All the
important instruments need to be hard wired with Ethernet to a central
router, or even redundant routers. Being able to have a hub any place you
like connected to just ONE Ethernet between points, such as the hub at the
helm to the hub at the nav station someplace else makes sense, too.

Just dreaming.....We'll be stuck with NMEA or some other proprietary
nonsense like Raymarine's or B&G's or other non-compatible stuff forever.

As long as they'll keep BUYING IT......

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"thuss" wrote in
ups.com:


serial rant/ethernet promotion snipped

Just dreaming.....We'll be stuck with NMEA or some other proprietary
nonsense like Raymarine's or B&G's or other non-compatible stuff forever.

As long as they'll keep BUYING IT......

Imagine what it would to to the prices of all fairly cheap instruments the
moment they need a more powerfull processor and more memory to run a TCP/IP
stack......

Meindert