Mad Dog,

Nothing in your post is correct. Best leave this to the E techs and
engineers.

Ron

Well Ron, please be so kind as to correct me..........
--
Mad Dog

"Ron Thornton" wrote in message
...
Mad Dog,

Nothing in your post is correct. Best leave this to the E techs and
engineers.

Ron

I'm still waiting with baited breath.........
I've been wrong before and i probably will be again,
but prove yourself please!
--
Mad Dog

"Mad Dog" wrote in message
...
Well Ron, please be so kind as to correct me..........
--
Mad Dog

"Ron Thornton" wrote in message
...
Mad Dog,

Nothing in your post is correct. Best leave this to the E techs and
engineers.

Ron

Mad Dog,

I was hoping one of the younger guys would step up to the plate cause I
don't think deeply about this stuff any more and I hate writing long
posts, but here goes.

Using a 6 volt battery can be done quite simply with a double pole
double throw switch. When in charge mode the 6v negative is connected
to the 12v negative and the 6v positive is connected to the 12v positive
thru a dropping resistor of suitable size. When in the 18v supply mode
the 6v negative is switched to the 12v positive and the 6v positive is
switched to the 18v output. Monitor the 6v on charge and switch to 18v
output when the 6v is charged. One of the 6v Kiddy car batteries at
WalMart would probably be enough.

The source of the interference, according to Tony, is the inverter.
This has nothing to due with the alternator.

A full wave bridge rectifier has four diodes.

AC ripple is the primary frequency of the alternating current source
used for conversion of AC to DC. Virtually all power supplies have some
of it no matter how much filtering is done and most appliances and
components will handle it unless it is at ridiculous levels which
usually means something in the power supply failed. The "dirty DC" as
you call it, has little or no thru put in an inverter. It is quite
isolated by the circuitry and the toroidal transformer used in most
modern inverters.

For about the last 75 years condensers have been components of
refrigeration equipment. In electronics, condenser and capacitor are
now the same thing. Only the auto industry still calls them condensers
(supprise, supprise).
Capacitors do not store AC. A capacitor does not block AC, it blocks DC
and passes AC.

The current flow thru the battery is irrelevant. Equal current flows
thru the negative (ground) and the positive.

A properly designed filter would dramatically reduce your need for such
large oil filled capacitors. A DC filter is comprised of capacitance
(C), reactance (R) and inductance (L). You get some filtering at low
loads with large C only because the circuit has some residual R and L,
but not much. The C component could be cut down considerably by adding
R and L but this requires some specific knowledge of electronics design
to achieve.

I believe you are confusing ripple with switching transients that come
from solid state junctions such as the transistors used in inverters and
the diodes in the alternator. These are much higher in frequency than
the 60 hertz of the AC line or the 15 to 20 thousand hertz of most
inverters (alternators are in between I believe) and will propagate as
radio waves. These frequencies could be coming into Tony's ssb by air
as easily as on the supply line. The cures, short of buying another
(probably more expensive) inverter could be to make sure the inverter
case has a good ground path ( in the engineering lab, we used braid
instead of wire, something to do with the way rf propogates on wire),
shield the inverter with another grounded enclosure and add small
capacitors (.001, .0001 mmf) between the output to ground hopefully
shunting to ground the offending interference.

Regards, Ron

(The source of the interference, according to Tony, is the inverter.
This has nothing to due with the alternator.)

Since the inverter produces a modified square-wave from the DC
coming off the alternator it certainly could....

(A full wave bridge rectifier has four diodes.)

I said it uses trio diodes...

(AC ripple is the primary frequency of the alternating current source
used for conversion of AC to DC.)

Standard AC cycles at the rate of 60 cycles per second,
AC ripple voltage is a small amount of AC mixed in with DC source,
usually 700 millivolts or less.

( The "dirty DC" as you call it, has little or no thru put in an inverter.
It is quite
isolated by the circuitry and the toroidal transformer used in most
modern inverters.)

The output from a amplifier or inverter can only be as clean as the input...

(The current flow thru the battery is irrelevant. Equal current flows
thru the negative (ground) and the positive.)

Current flows in 1 direction thru a circuit :negative to positive...

(A properly designed filter would dramatically reduce your need for such
large oil filled capacitors. )

I needed a large bank for the high current draw in my circuit...
not intended for use in this matter, just an example.

( The cures, short of buying another (probably more expensive) inverter
could be to make sure the inverter case has a good ground path ( in the
engineering lab, we used braid
instead of wire, something to do with the way rf propogates on wire),

I agree 100%, chassis grounds are critical, especially on inverters and
transceivers or any piece of electronics for that matter.
Copper braid is used because RF current travels on the surface of a
conductor rather than thru it like AC/DC.
They call it the "skin effect".

Thank you for your reply, it is nice to converse with someone of equal
talent
and interest.
I feel we have knowledge that could bestow the fellow group members,
However i am new here and i will lay low with open ears.
--
Mad Dog
KG4LBD

714 Sandpile,
The Mad Dog wavin' good bye
"Ron Thornton" wrote in message
...
Mad Dog,

I was hoping one of the younger guys would step up to the plate cause I
don't think deeply about this stuff any more and I hate writing long
posts, but here goes.

Using a 6 volt battery can be done quite simply with a double pole
double throw switch. When in charge mode the 6v negative is connected
to the 12v negative and the 6v positive is connected to the 12v positive
thru a dropping resistor of suitable size. When in the 18v supply mode
the 6v negative is switched to the 12v positive and the 6v positive is
switched to the 18v output. Monitor the 6v on charge and switch to 18v
output when the 6v is charged. One of the 6v Kiddy car batteries at
WalMart would probably be enough.

The source of the interference, according to Tony, is the inverter.
This has nothing to due with the alternator.

A full wave bridge rectifier has four diodes.

AC ripple is the primary frequency of the alternating current source
used for conversion of AC to DC. Virtually all power supplies have some
of it no matter how much filtering is done and most appliances and
components will handle it unless it is at ridiculous levels which
usually means something in the power supply failed. The "dirty DC" as
you call it, has little or no thru put in an inverter. It is quite
isolated by the circuitry and the toroidal transformer used in most
modern inverters.

For about the last 75 years condensers have been components of
refrigeration equipment. In electronics, condenser and capacitor are
now the same thing. Only the auto industry still calls them condensers
(supprise, supprise).
Capacitors do not store AC. A capacitor does not block AC, it blocks DC
and passes AC.

The current flow thru the battery is irrelevant. Equal current flows
thru the negative (ground) and the positive.

A properly designed filter would dramatically reduce your need for such
large oil filled capacitors. A DC filter is comprised of capacitance
(C), reactance (R) and inductance (L). You get some filtering at low
loads with large C only because the circuit has some residual R and L,
but not much. The C component could be cut down considerably by adding
R and L but this requires some specific knowledge of electronics design
to achieve.

I believe you are confusing ripple with switching transients that come
from solid state junctions such as the transistors used in inverters and
the diodes in the alternator. These are much higher in frequency than
the 60 hertz of the AC line or the 15 to 20 thousand hertz of most
inverters (alternators are in between I believe) and will propagate as
radio waves. These frequencies could be coming into Tony's ssb by air
as easily as on the supply line. The cures, short of buying another
(probably more expensive) inverter could be to make sure the inverter
case has a good ground path ( in the engineering lab, we used braid
instead of wire, something to do with the way rf propogates on wire),
shield the inverter with another grounded enclosure and add small
capacitors (.001, .0001 mmf) between the output to ground hopefully
shunting to ground the offending interference.

Regards, Ron

Thanks Mad Dog. It's nice to have an exchange of ideas and disagreement
without being called a moron. I appreciate your civility.

I don't think your garbage in, garbage out theory applies to inverters
as it does with amplifiers. In the next week or so I'll run some
inverters off a trashy DC supply and let you know what comes out. Now
where did I put that oscilloscope?

Regards, Ron

Ten-4 neighbor..keep me posted
--
, Mad Dog

"Ron Thornton" wrote in message
...
Thanks Mad Dog. It's nice to have an exchange of ideas and disagreement
without being called a moron. I appreciate your civility.

I don't think your garbage in, garbage out theory applies to inverters
as it does with amplifiers. In the next week or so I'll run some
inverters off a trashy DC supply and let you know what comes out. Now
where did I put that oscilloscope?

Regards, Ron