Who can offer advice on trying to do a full upgrade on electronics while
underway? Do I need more than what follows?
24Mile radar, Autopilot linked to GPS, Fishfinder/depthfinder, possbily
replace gauges and cables where needed, charging system, inverter, VHF. I
try and avoid buying on price, where quality and performance are affected.
How big a job, would one person or a shop be able to do this 4 me since it
is in the USA and I am in Canada. What would the approx $ budget number to
start with. And, I would also need to know what effect on price if all work
done at both stations.
Any volunteers for a winter contract job?

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:39:14 GMT, "Tom Koehler"
wrote:

Who can offer advice on trying to do a full upgrade on electronics while
underway? Do I need more than what follows?
24Mile radar,

Are you power or sail, Tom? A 24 mile radar on a sailboat is a waste
of power that's limited. A 2KW 12 mile makes more sense and stretches
the batteries farther. Unless they are TALL targets that stick out
over the horizon, you won't be able to "see" them on the radar past
about 8 miles, anyways. Think CLOSE....that bouy you can't find in
the fog, those fishing boats that just disappeared at 1/2 mile because
your bigshot radar at 50' is shooting over the top of them. THAT's
when a radar is MOST useful. Even a powerboat going 30 knots is going
to take most of an hour to get to a 24 mile target, while it runs over
that center console that disappeared at 1/2 mile because the radar
beam was too aimed at 24 miles. A low radar to see that bouy is more
important....especially just before you run over its anchor
chain...(c;

Autopilot linked to GPS, Fishfinder/depthfinder, possbily
replace gauges and cables where needed, charging system, inverter, VHF. I
try and avoid buying on price, where quality and performance are affected.
How big a job, would one person or a shop be able to do this 4 me since it
is in the USA and I am in Canada. What would the approx $ budget number to
start with. And, I would also need to know what effect on price if all work
done at both stations.
Any volunteers for a winter contract job?

Without knowing what boat you have and what kind of boating you do,
it's pretty tough to know what you need. I'm outfitting and
commissioning an extensive electronics suite aboard a friend's Amel
Sharki 41' ketch for offshore cruising. So far, I've installed and
integrated into the data network:

Raymarine RL70CRC Plus radar/chart plotter with WAAS-GPS receiver,
Smart Heading Sensor (gyro-compass) (both Seatalk)

Garmin 185 GPS/chartplotter/recording Sonar
(backup GPS and fishfinder to see bottom "trends")

Brookes & Gatehouse "Network" Wind, Speed, Depth, Data instruments
feeding NMEA network and Brookes & Gatehouse "Network" Pilot
electro-hydraulic autopilot direct to rudder post bell crank. Even
provides backup manual steering..... The autopilot has its own
fluxgate compass to back up the Raymarine gyro-compass. It steers in
compass mode, nav mode from the network and wind mode from B&G Network
Wind sailing instrument like a steering vane.

Yeoman chart table drafting device which interfaces paper chart
plotting with the NMEA network (as soon as I get the Yeoman's NMEA I/O
repaired, that is) data. The Yeoman will put your current position on
the paper chart, do all chart plotting to pencil width precision and
send out new waypoints to all NMEA plotters at the click of its
drafting puck "mouse". If it all goes to hell, we still have that
chart. I mounted it under the mahogany chart table's flip top and the
puck reads its signals right through a whole chart book great!

NMEA talkers feed a Noland Engineering NMEA multiplexer to store and
dispense NMEA data to all listeners either from the multiplexer direct
or the Dell Pentium 4 notebook computer running The Cap'n nav
software, and through its soundcard connections to the HF radio, all
conceivable digital modes like email, packet radio, SITOR, NAVTEX,
WEFAX weather charts, and all ham radio digital modes. It even sends
and receives Morse code.

Communications equipment I just installed is:
Icom M802 HF SSB/CW/FSK/GMDSS/DSC with NMEA network input and AT-140
antenna tuner feeding insulated backstay on the mainmast....marine and
ham radio with HF email capabilities.

Icom M602 VHF with full DSC capabilities with NMEA In and out to the
network. VHF Ch 70 emergencies and calls to the boat show up on the
chart plotters and computer directly from this radio. Antenna is 1/2
wave Shakespeare on to of mainmast at 52'

Icom M59 VHF, backup radio for M602 with 1/2 wave Shakespeare antenna
on to of mizzen mast at about 40'

Hmm....Winter the boat in Charleston's Ashley Marina and I'll build
you one, too! No need to winterize and worry about it freezing up
here. We still got two air conditioners running on Lionheart!
Helluva nice place to fly down to on the weekends....(c;



Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?

Without knowing how big the boat is and where Tom is going, I think
Larry's blanket recommendation of a 12 mile radar falls short.

Certainly it's fine for a very small coastal cruiser whose principal
need is to keep out of trouble in limited visibility.

For a larger or offshore boat, however, consider:

1) Swee****er's radar, mounted on a post only 14' off the water, saw
big ships easily at 15-20 miles. If there's a big ship on your bow
doing 25 knots, you have a closing rate around 2 minutes per mile.
The difference between 24 minutes with the twelve mile radar and 30-40
minutes with the twenty-four is real and important. This applies
especially in waters that have high speed catamaran ferries.

2) A radar easily sees rain at a distance. Rain clouds are high
enough so the horizon is not a limit. Avoiding or finding rain (for
catching water) is often desirable.

3) The larger radar will usually have a longer antenna. This means
better resolution, which can help a lot when you're trying to
determine the target's relative motion early on, when the changes in
bearing are small.

4) The larger radar will have more power (and higher power
consumption, but radars don't use much) which will make cutting
through light rain easier and will provide better images of small
boats.

5) Larry's assumption is that the larger radar will be mounted higher
and therefore miss some close targets has some holes. First, there's
no reason you have to mount the bigger radar higher. Second, even a
radar fifty feet up hits the water 225' away (12.5 degree vertical
beam half-angle), which is pretty close, even in dense fog.

Other random thoughts:
Don't forget your heading source. This will usually be a fluxgate
compass, but these come in varying flavors. A more stable source will
make your radar easier to use in course-up or north-up modes. I
expect GPS compasses to come down in price dramatically over the next
couple of years and be the heading source of choice for most yachts
that are now using fluxgate.

I like Nexus (Silva) instruments much better than B&G. They're
cheaper, easier to install and use, and excellent for all use. We
took them around the world on Swee****er and I race with them (as
navigator) on a winning boat....

I don't like a fixed mount GPS -- I find it hard to push all the
necessary buttons. We used Garmin 45s on Swee****er, with the
antenna, power, and data wires in one shrink wrap going off to the far
right corner of the chart table. I find it much easier to have the
unit in your hand, up close and personal, than having to reach across
the chart table peering at it with bifocals.

A big yes to good VHF antenna(s) on the masthead. The cheap little
wires you usually see are nowhere near as good as an eight foot whip.
West recommends using only a 3db antenna on sailboats on the grounds
that a heeling boat will transmit into the water if you use more gain,
but I think a 6db eight footer works fine -- you're rarely using the
radio while hard on the wind, after all.

The Yeoman is a neat gadget. As someone who will always have a paper
chart (we own around 600), I like its ability to give you some of the
advantage of a chartplotter without springing for an electronic chart
that duplicates your paper and that you may use only once.

Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


(Larry W4CSC) wrote in message ...
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:39:14 GMT, "Tom Koehler"
wrote:

Who can offer advice on trying to do a full upgrade on electronics while
underway? Do I need more than what follows?
24Mile radar,

Are you power or sail, Tom? A 24 mile radar on a sailboat is a waste
of power that's limited. A 2KW 12 mile makes more sense and stretches
the batteries farther. Unless they are TALL targets that stick out
over the horizon, you won't be able to "see" them on the radar past
about 8 miles, anyways. Think CLOSE....that bouy you can't find in
the fog, those fishing boats that just disappeared at 1/2 mile because
your bigshot radar at 50' is shooting over the top of them. THAT's
when a radar is MOST useful. Even a powerboat going 30 knots is going
to take most of an hour to get to a 24 mile target, while it runs over
that center console that disappeared at 1/2 mile because the radar
beam was too aimed at 24 miles. A low radar to see that bouy is more
important....especially just before you run over its anchor
chain...(c;

Autopilot linked to GPS, Fishfinder/depthfinder, possbily
replace gauges and cables where needed, charging system, inverter, VHF. I
try and avoid buying on price, where quality and performance are affected.
How big a job, would one person or a shop be able to do this 4 me since it
is in the USA and I am in Canada. What would the approx $ budget number to
start with. And, I would also need to know what effect on price if all work
done at both stations.
Any volunteers for a winter contract job?

Without knowing what boat you have and what kind of boating you do,
it's pretty tough to know what you need. I'm outfitting and
commissioning an extensive electronics suite aboard a friend's Amel
Sharki 41' ketch for offshore cruising. So far, I've installed and
integrated into the data network:

Raymarine RL70CRC Plus radar/chart plotter with WAAS-GPS receiver,
Smart Heading Sensor (gyro-compass) (both Seatalk)

Garmin 185 GPS/chartplotter/recording Sonar
(backup GPS and fishfinder to see bottom "trends")

Brookes & Gatehouse "Network" Wind, Speed, Depth, Data instruments
feeding NMEA network and Brookes & Gatehouse "Network" Pilot
electro-hydraulic autopilot direct to rudder post bell crank. Even
provides backup manual steering..... The autopilot has its own
fluxgate compass to back up the Raymarine gyro-compass. It steers in
compass mode, nav mode from the network and wind mode from B&G Network
Wind sailing instrument like a steering vane.

Yeoman chart table drafting device which interfaces paper chart
plotting with the NMEA network (as soon as I get the Yeoman's NMEA I/O
repaired, that is) data. The Yeoman will put your current position on
the paper chart, do all chart plotting to pencil width precision and
send out new waypoints to all NMEA plotters at the click of its
drafting puck "mouse". If it all goes to hell, we still have that
chart. I mounted it under the mahogany chart table's flip top and the
puck reads its signals right through a whole chart book great!

NMEA talkers feed a Noland Engineering NMEA multiplexer to store and
dispense NMEA data to all listeners either from the multiplexer direct
or the Dell Pentium 4 notebook computer running The Cap'n nav
software, and through its soundcard connections to the HF radio, all
conceivable digital modes like email, packet radio, SITOR, NAVTEX,
WEFAX weather charts, and all ham radio digital modes. It even sends
and receives Morse code.

Communications equipment I just installed is:
Icom M802 HF SSB/CW/FSK/GMDSS/DSC with NMEA network input and AT-140
antenna tuner feeding insulated backstay on the mainmast....marine and
ham radio with HF email capabilities.

Icom M602 VHF with full DSC capabilities with NMEA In and out to the
network. VHF Ch 70 emergencies and calls to the boat show up on the
chart plotters and computer directly from this radio. Antenna is 1/2
wave Shakespeare on to of mainmast at 52'

Icom M59 VHF, backup radio for M602 with 1/2 wave Shakespeare antenna
on to of mizzen mast at about 40'

Hmm....Winter the boat in Charleston's Ashley Marina and I'll build
you one, too! No need to winterize and worry about it freezing up
here. We still got two air conditioners running on Lionheart!
Helluva nice place to fly down to on the weekends....(c;



Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?