Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

Common knowledge is that we should top up our fuel tank for the winter
sleep. Argument is that otherwise the temp changes will continuously
condense water into the tank, as moist air is pulled in, condensed,
and then expelled.

I have no doubt that the effect is real, but wonder how big it
actually is. How much water per gallon (or liter) of air would
condense in one cycle of some plausible temperature range and some
plausible outside dew point?

(I think I know how to calculate this, but wonder if its already been done?)

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

Common knowledge is entirely faulty.

Fuel oil when manufactured (cracked, etc.) is rendered essentially
'dry'. Water (vapor in the air) 'equilibrates' eventually until the
oil is saturated with water from the atmosphere ..... and only after
the oil is SATURATED with water does the 'condensation' become
apparent. Simple speak: if your fuel is condensing water it means
that its laid around with an open vent too long and its now LOADED
with water.

The BEST is to totally empty the tank for the winter, take home the
fuel and burn it in your heater.
EMPTY tanks dont magically fill up with water because of a mysterious
'condensation process'. :-)

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

"RichH" wrote in message ...
Common knowledge is entirely faulty.

Fuel oil when manufactured (cracked, etc.) is rendered essentially
'dry'. Water (vapor in the air) 'equilibrates' eventually until the
oil is saturated with water from the atmosphere ..... and only after
the oil is SATURATED with water does the 'condensation' become
apparent. Simple speak: if your fuel is condensing water it means
that its laid around with an open vent too long and its now LOADED
with water.

The BEST is to totally empty the tank for the winter, take home the
fuel and burn it in your heater.
EMPTY tanks dont magically fill up with water because of a mysterious
'condensation process'. :-)

No doubt that emptying the tank and the fuel system may be a good thing to do.

Since 1982 I have always stored the boat for winter (Canadian Maritime) with a full tank. At time I did add some diesel conditioner.

I never had any fuel problem. The water separator must have worked well. Now with the new boat the water separator is more Hi-Tech and I do not know if I should add some fuel stabilizer.

Last year I did not add any and I had no fuel problem. This year I am thinking about adding some stabilizer.

BTW. Over here during the winter the sun may shine on the boat and the temperature may get up and when the night drives in it gets way below freezing. I wonder what takes place in the empty full tank and conduits?

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On 2008-11-12 18:03:00 -0500, Marc Auslander
said:

Common knowledge is that we should top up our fuel tank for the winter
sleep. Argument is that otherwise the temp changes will continuously
condense water into the tank, as moist air is pulled in, condensed,
and then expelled.

I have no doubt that the effect is real, but wonder how big it
actually is. How much water per gallon (or liter) of air would
condense in one cycle of some plausible temperature range and some
plausible outside dew point?

(I think I know how to calculate this, but wonder if its already been done?)

I've seen an expert analysis by a surveyor fairly recently, but can't
find it now.

Essentially, he proved (at least to me) that the water isn't from
condensation but primarily from leaky fuel caps, both on the boat and
on the marina's tanks.

The volume of water than can be condensed out of the volume of air
contained in a fuel tank isn't significant, especially since air flow
in a typical tank is trivial.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

Marc Auslander wrote in
:

Common knowledge is that we should top up our fuel tank for the winter
sleep. Argument is that otherwise the temp changes will continuously
condense water into the tank, as moist air is pulled in, condensed,
and then expelled.

I have no doubt that the effect is real, but wonder how big it
actually is. How much water per gallon (or liter) of air would
condense in one cycle of some plausible temperature range and some
plausible outside dew point?

(I think I know how to calculate this, but wonder if its already been
done?)


You can't calculate it because you can't calculate the humidity of the air
from hour to hour, an immense variable.

It doesn't matter how much....it happens. EVERY airplane at the airport
hangar has tanks filled to the lip because of it. Water in their fuel
spells disaster.

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

Larry wrote:


It doesn't matter how much....it happens. EVERY airplane at the
airport hangar has tanks filled to the lip because of it. Water in
their fuel spells disaster.

Once again, this simply isn't true and in cases where it is it is because
common knowledge is faulty as Rich says. As a pilot and manager of an
aircraft for a flying club, I checked fuel in an aircraft through the bottom
drain nearly daily year round for a decade and never found a drop except
once after driving rain when the fill cap was not tightened. Like many
aircraft, this one was kept with slack tanks because only two people could
fly it with full tanks and baggage and we didn't want someone to arrive at
the airport and be unable to take off without spending hundreds of dollars
to dispose of drained fuel. This was an aircraft tied down about 200 yards
from the ocean.

There are some "wet wing" aircraft constructions where condensation is more
of a problem but the wings of my plane were similar to a boat in that they
were aluminum inside the wing structure with an air space.

Filling the tanks for the long winter storage, which I have been doing,
helps because it dramatically reduces the surface area of fuel exposed to
air. This works only if you fill up into the vents slightly. I would drain
except I can't get the last inch of fuel out of my tanks. This year, I'm
going to take Rich's suggestion and pipe my sounding tube to a container of
Silica Gel after taping over the vent. In this climate, I haven't had
enough trouble with water problems to make this a permanent installation but
it's a neat idea for southern boats.

--
Roger Long

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:45:06 -0800 (PST), RichH
wrote:

Common knowledge is entirely faulty.

Fuel oil when manufactured (cracked, etc.) is rendered essentially
'dry'. Water (vapor in the air) 'equilibrates' eventually until the
oil is saturated with water from the atmosphere ..... and only after
the oil is SATURATED with water does the 'condensation' become
apparent. Simple speak: if your fuel is condensing water it means
that its laid around with an open vent too long and its now LOADED
with water.

The BEST is to totally empty the tank for the winter, take home the
fuel and burn it in your heater.
EMPTY tanks dont magically fill up with water because of a mysterious
'condensation process'. :-)

Oh, but they DO. Any variation in temperature of the air surrounding
the tank will cause a pumping action. Temp goes up, the air in the
tank expands and finds a way out to create equilibrium. Temp goes
down, the tank inhales air containing moisture.

Unless of course you think your tank is completely pressure sealed, of
course.

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:09:13 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-11-12 18:03:00 -0500, Marc Auslander
said:

Common knowledge is that we should top up our fuel tank for the winter
sleep. Argument is that otherwise the temp changes will continuously
condense water into the tank, as moist air is pulled in, condensed,
and then expelled.

I have no doubt that the effect is real, but wonder how big it
actually is. How much water per gallon (or liter) of air would
condense in one cycle of some plausible temperature range and some
plausible outside dew point?

(I think I know how to calculate this, but wonder if its already been done?)

I've seen an expert analysis by a surveyor fairly recently, but can't
find it now.

Essentially, he proved (at least to me) that the water isn't from
condensation but primarily from leaky fuel caps, both on the boat and
on the marina's tanks.

The volume of water than can be condensed out of the volume of air
contained in a fuel tank isn't significant, especially since air flow
in a typical tank is trivial.

But the small amount of water that enters each time the surroundings
cool, stays there and accumulates. Over a 4 or 6 month layup?

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:34:37 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:45:06 -0800 (PST), RichH
wrote:

Common knowledge is entirely faulty.

Fuel oil when manufactured (cracked, etc.) is rendered essentially
'dry'. Water (vapor in the air) 'equilibrates' eventually until the
oil is saturated with water from the atmosphere ..... and only after
the oil is SATURATED with water does the 'condensation' become
apparent. Simple speak: if your fuel is condensing water it means
that its laid around with an open vent too long and its now LOADED
with water.

The BEST is to totally empty the tank for the winter, take home the
fuel and burn it in your heater.
EMPTY tanks dont magically fill up with water because of a mysterious
'condensation process'. :-)

Oh, but they DO. Any variation in temperature of the air surrounding
the tank will cause a pumping action. Temp goes up, the air in the
tank expands and finds a way out to create equilibrium. Temp goes
down, the tank inhales air containing moisture.

Unless of course you think your tank is completely pressure sealed, of
course.


The variable is, of course, the volume of airspace in the tank. If, as
I do, you fill the tank full - right up to the filler outlet there is
very, very little pumping action. further, if the tank is filled into
the filler hose and the cap screwed down that access is now closed to
the atmosphere and the only access is through the breather hoses - say
1/2" hose about 3 ft. long, or about 7 cu inches. How much volume
change is going to occur in that space and even assuming a extremely
high humidity how much water accumulates?
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok
(bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:54:34 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Larry wrote:


It doesn't matter how much....it happens. EVERY airplane at the
airport hangar has tanks filled to the lip because of it. Water in
their fuel spells disaster.

Once again, this simply isn't true and in cases where it is it is because
common knowledge is faulty as Rich says. As a pilot and manager of an
aircraft for a flying club, I checked fuel in an aircraft through the bottom
drain nearly daily year round for a decade and never found a drop except
once after driving rain when the fill cap was not tightened. Like many
aircraft, this one was kept with slack tanks because only two people could
fly it with full tanks and baggage and we didn't want someone to arrive at
the airport and be unable to take off without spending hundreds of dollars
to dispose of drained fuel. This was an aircraft tied down about 200 yards
from the ocean.

There are some "wet wing" aircraft constructions where condensation is more
of a problem but the wings of my plane were similar to a boat in that they
were aluminum inside the wing structure with an air space.

Filling the tanks for the long winter storage, which I have been doing,
helps because it dramatically reduces the surface area of fuel exposed to
air. This works only if you fill up into the vents slightly. I would drain
except I can't get the last inch of fuel out of my tanks. This year, I'm
going to take Rich's suggestion and pipe my sounding tube to a container of
Silica Gel after taping over the vent. In this climate, I haven't had
enough trouble with water problems to make this a permanent installation but
it's a neat idea for southern boats.

For 20 years I was involved in aircraft maintenance, both big and
little airplanes. The common practice was to leave the tanks the way
they were when the plane landed as fuel loads were dependent on cargo
to be carried and length of flight. In fact this was most noticeable
with big aircraft - B-52's for example might take a full fuel load or
if they had an extremely heavy bomb load might take off with minimum
fuel and re-fuel immediately on reaching cruising altitude.

Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok
(bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

wrote

But the small amount of water that enters each time the surroundings
cool, stays there and accumulates. Over a 4 or 6 month layup?

Not necessarily. The surroundings have to cool differerentially or to the
extent that there is water on every surface. Even then, the water doesn't
necessarily fall off the surface and into the fuel. I was in my boat nearly
every day working on it last winter and I never saw conditions that made me
think that the tank top would have been covered with water drops. I also
kept my tanks drawn down most of the winter because I was installing my new
fuel system. My boat was in a shed that warmed up a lot with a very damp
floor so there was lots of temperature differential.

When in turmoil, when in doubt, always try a little perspective:

The "pumping action" of temperature changes is orders of magnitude less than
the pumping due to fuel sloshing around with boat motion.
The temperature differentials in summer with cool water and hot sun are much
greater than for a boat hauled out in the winter.
The cold air of winter is generally drier. Condensation happens because air
cools and can't hold as much moisture. Much of that process has already
happend by the time winter air gets into your tank.

If filling your tanks is really vital in winter, big time problems in summer
is what we would be discussing here.

It still a good, but not vital, idea to minimize fuel surface area contact
with air over long periods of storage. One way to do this is to fill the
tanks into the vents. Another is to empty the tanks. I can't do the latter
so I do the former. Not doing anything is unlikely to lead to problems so
severe they can't be dealt with with something like Startron.

My boat was laid up for six years near Detroit by the former owner with a
partially filled fuel tank and I had to deal with it after I bought it. The
fuel turned to partly to jelly that wouldn't go through the filters and
there was a mega clean up but there was no water in the bottom of the tank.
There was no real alge growth either. The fuel just evaporated off ligher
elements, oxidized, and aged.

--
Roger Long

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:02:01 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote:


When in turmoil, when in doubt, always try a little perspective:

Reminds me of the Honda owners who insist on changing brake fluid
every couple years because brake fluid is hygroscopic.
They love that word.
Doesn't matter that the braking system is closed to the atmosphere.
Change that brake fluid. And use Honda fluid to be "safe."
When I mentioned the 13-year old brake fluid in my Celebrity was
performing just fine I was accused of being a road menace.
That's why I love usenet.

--Vic

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:45:06 -0800 (PST), RichH
wrote:

EMPTY tanks dont magically fill up with water because of a mysterious
'condensation process'. :-)

There is a simple explanation. In a half full tank, the fuel will
overlie the water and keep it from evaporating, when it warms up
during the day.

Casady

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:34:37 -0500, wrote:

EMPTY tanks dont magically fill up with water because of a mysterious
'condensation process'. :-)

Oh, but they DO. Any variation in temperature of the air surrounding
the tank will cause a pumping action. Temp goes up, the air in the
tank expands and finds a way out to create equilibrium. Temp goes
down, the tank inhales air containing moisture.

In dry weather, the tank will breath dry air, and evaporate any water
that is there. Unless the tank is NOT empty and the fuel layer
prevents evaporation of the water. A teaspoon full is all it takes.

Unless of course you think your tank is completely pressure sealed, of
course.

why do the fuel caps on cars hiss at you when you open them, if they
are not sealed?

Casady

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_c...fuel_tanks.htm

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:02:01 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote:

My boat was laid up for six years near Detroit by the former owner with a
partially filled fuel tank and I had to deal with it after I bought it. The
fuel turned to partly to jelly that wouldn't go through the filters and
there was a mega clean up but there was no water in the bottom of the tank.
There was no real alge growth either. The fuel just evaporated off ligher
elements, oxidized, and aged.

Algae is a green plant, does photosynthesis and all that, and cannot
survive without light. Fungus can grow in fuel tanks, the stuff feeds
on the fuel, but it has to have water. They have antifungus, anti
water additives for jet fuel. The first Learjets lacked fuel heaters,
and you added Prist, from an pressurized can, through a hose clipped
to the fuel nozzle. That way it mixed.

If you evaporate all the light fractions, could this decrease the
solubility of the wax? Maybe wax had something to do with the jelly.
Cold fuel waxes out, and it plugs filters. [One solution is to mix
50/50 with #1 fuel. At least one station in Des Moines sells the
blend, during the Winter.]

Casady

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On 2008-11-13 10:56:30 -0500, Gordon said:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_c...fuel_tanks.htm

How did you find that? I went there first of course, but couldn't find it.

"Wasted" a bit of time, as usual, as I found a half-dozen articles of interest.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:45:06 -0800 (PST), RichH
wrote:

Common knowledge is entirely faulty.

Fuel oil when manufactured (cracked, etc.) is rendered essentially
'dry'. Water (vapor in the air) 'equilibrates' eventually until the
oil is saturated with water from the atmosphere ..... and only after
the oil is SATURATED with water does the 'condensation' become
apparent. Simple speak: if your fuel is condensing water it means
that its laid around with an open vent too long and its now LOADED
with water.

How much is "LOADED" in ppm?


The BEST is to totally empty the tank for the winter, take home the
fuel and burn it in your heater.
EMPTY tanks dont magically fill up with water because of a mysterious
'condensation process'. :-)

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

The threat of water in the fuel is real, but it shouldn't be a problem. You
must have a business process in place to manage the problem. The most likely
cause is being delivered fuel with already absorbed water. The second threat
is fuel is hygroscopic and absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. This is a
low threat in cold temperatures because the air will not contain much water.
However, this is a big problem in warm humid climes. The consequences are
tank corrosion, bacterial growth and fuel system failure. The decision to
fill your tanks are really fuel cost and saving opportunities based. Your
protection against the threat are corrosion proof tanks, biocide additives
and a centrifuge water/fuel separator (fuel polishing system). The risk
cannot be avoided, only mitigated.
Steve

"Marc Auslander" wrote in message
...
Common knowledge is that we should top up our fuel tank for the winter
sleep. Argument is that otherwise the temp changes will continuously
condense water into the tank, as moist air is pulled in, condensed,
and then expelled.

I have no doubt that the effect is real, but wonder how big it
actually is. How much water per gallon (or liter) of air would
condense in one cycle of some plausible temperature range and some
plausible outside dew point?

(I think I know how to calculate this, but wonder if its already been
done?)

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

50 ppm @20C ( 1ml / 20 litres)
fig.1 p11
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biof...bdgerpen96.pdf
Beware of biodiesel in boats..

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:07:51 -0500, wrote:

No, unfortunately, the moisture is heavier than air and settles in the
tank, where it remains.

Unfortunately, no. Water vapor has a molecular weight of 18, air is
29. Density varies directly with molecular weight.

Casady

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:12 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:43:37 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:07:51 -0500, wrote:

No, unfortunately, the moisture is heavier than air and settles in the
tank, where it remains.

Unfortunately, no. Water vapor has a molecular weight of 18, air is
29. Density varies directly with molecular weight.

Casady

So, if you fill a balloon with water, it will fly? Amazing! Does NASA
know about this?

What part of vapor didn't you understand?

Casady

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:38:14 +0000, Goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:

How much is "LOADED" in ppm?

Seventy ppm according to one reference to jet fuel. Enough for the
fungi and bacteria to get by. According to Flying magazine, if I
recall.

Casady

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On 12 Nov 2008 18:03:00 -0500, Marc Auslander
wrote:

Common knowledge is that we should top up our fuel tank for the winter
sleep. Argument is that otherwise the temp changes will continuously
condense water into the tank, as moist air is pulled in, condensed,
and then expelled.

I have no doubt that the effect is real, but wonder how big it
actually is. How much water per gallon (or liter) of air would
condense in one cycle of some plausible temperature range and some
plausible outside dew point?

(I think I know how to calculate this, but wonder if its already been done?)

Google groups is getting worse for finding stuff..

"
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:08:53 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

OK, worst case, 100% humidity at 80 F., and it all condenses out into the
tank. What volume of water are we talking about for each cubic foot of air?

1 cubic foot = 0.028 316 846 592 000 066 cubic meter
http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm
80 degree Fahrenheit = 26.6666667 degree Celsius
http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm
At sea level and at 20 °C, dry air has a density of approximately 1.2
kg/m3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_air
approx 20g h2o / kg air
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity

0.028 x 1.2 x 20 = 0.672 grams/ccs/ml of water.

"

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:13:46 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:38:14 +0000, Goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:

How much is "LOADED" in ppm?

Seventy ppm according to one reference to jet fuel. Enough for the
fungi and bacteria to get by. According to Flying magazine, if I
recall.

Casady

Nothing to shout about.. In Wales, at least.

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:10:46 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:12 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:43:37 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:07:51 -0500, wrote:

No, unfortunately, the moisture is heavier than air and settles in the
tank, where it remains.

Unfortunately, no. Water vapor has a molecular weight of 18, air is
29. Density varies directly with molecular weight.

Casady

So, if you fill a balloon with water, it will fly? Amazing! Does NASA
know about this?

What part of vapor didn't you understand?

Casady

Okay, so you are claiming that if I fill a balloon with water vapor
and let go of it, it will float upwards? Why didn't they fill the
Hindenburg with Water Vapor?

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:15:05 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote:

wrote:

So, if you fill a balloon with water, it will fly? Amazing! Does NASA
know about this?

No, but all pilots know that, when humidity, the amount of water in the air
(had to add that in view of the ignorance being displayed here), increases,
the air gets less dense. The plane can carry less weight and takeoffs will
be longer. Less dense is, uh, lighter.

Whoosh!

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:15:05 -0500, "Roger Long"
wrote:

wrote:

So, if you fill a balloon with water, it will fly? Amazing! Does NASA
know about this?

No, but all pilots know that, when humidity, the amount of water in the air
(had to add that in view of the ignorance being displayed here),

Mr. "I'm gonna make my boat lightning proof" is now calling others
ignorant?

Bwahahahahahaha!

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On 2008-11-13 14:10:50 -0500, Goofball_star_dot_etal
said:

http://www.journeytoforever.org/biof...bdgerpen96.pdf
Beware of biodiesel in boats..

Oh, be *very* aware.....
/sarcasm

Only conclusion that means anything to auxiliaries is to add biocide,
which most of us overdo anyway.

High-volume users don't have to change a thing.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_c...fuel_tanks.htm

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:23:26 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_c...fuel_tanks.htm

The fact that they can't convert from degrees C to F properly spoils
it a bit..

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:32:55 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:10:46 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:12 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:43:37 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:07:51 -0500, wrote:

No, unfortunately, the moisture is heavier than air and settles in the
tank, where it remains.

Unfortunately, no. Water vapor has a molecular weight of 18, air is
29. Density varies directly with molecular weight.

Casady

So, if you fill a balloon with water, it will fly? Amazing! Does NASA
know about this?

What part of vapor didn't you understand?

Casady

Okay, so you are claiming that if I fill a balloon with water vapor
and let go of it, it will float upwards? Why didn't they fill the
Hindenburg with Water Vapor?

Just make sure the temperature is above boiling point.

Casady

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

In article ,
wrote:

Okay, so you are claiming that if I fill a balloon with water vapor
and let go of it, it will float upwards? Why didn't they fill the
Hindenburg with Water Vapor?

Obviously SaltyDog has NEVER seen a CLOUD, floating by while he is out
sailing..... what are clouds made out of??? wait for it.....
Water Vapor..... do clouds go UP in elevation.... wait for it....
Yes, they do... therefor Water Vapor MUST be lighter than Air in some
circumstances..... Duh..... Grade School Science must have been on a
day Salty skipped school....

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

"You" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:

Okay, so you are claiming that if I fill a balloon with water vapor
and let go of it, it will float upwards? Why didn't they fill the
Hindenburg with Water Vapor?

Obviously SaltyDog has NEVER seen a CLOUD, floating by while he is out
sailing..... what are clouds made out of??? wait for it.....
Water Vapor..... do clouds go UP in elevation.... wait for it....
Yes, they do... therefor Water Vapor MUST be lighter than Air in some
circumstances..... Duh..... Grade School Science must have been on a
day Salty skipped school....

Clouds are a hoax. They are actually hydrogen-filled blimps covered with
cotton balls. Rain is caused by sprinkler systems attached to the blimps.
Thunder is what happens when two blimps collide.

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:16:33 GMT, You wrote:

Obviously SaltyDog has NEVER seen a CLOUD, floating by while he is out
sailing..... what are clouds made out of??? wait for it.....
Water Vapor.

The thing that makes clouds visible is droplets of liquid water. The
air is pretty much saturated with water vapor, of course. Usually
clouds rise because they are warmer. That means less dense. The water
vapor is in fact less dense, but the temperature effect is much
larger.

Casady

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

Well i had a masthead light which was sealed with rubber grommets, the top
was plastic and screwed from the base upwards with a long stainless screw,
therefore holding it down from the inside. About a year after fitting the
bulb blew so after climbing the mast i found to my surprise that there was
about an inch of water inside. So bearing in mind what has been said here
How did that water get there?


"Goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:23:26 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_c...fuel_tanks.htm

The fact that they can't convert from degrees C to F properly spoils
it a bit..

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On 2008-11-14 23:11:53 -0500, "Tony uk" said:

Well i had a masthead light which was sealed with rubber grommets, the top
was plastic and screwed from the base upwards with a long stainless screw,
therefore holding it down from the inside. About a year after fitting the
bulb blew so after climbing the mast i found to my surprise that there was
about an inch of water inside. So bearing in mind what has been said here
How did that water get there?

Wind-driven rain, most likely, and they forgot to put a drain hole in.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Full fuel tanks for the winter
 

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 04:11:53 -0000, "Tony uk"
wrote:

Well i had a masthead light which was sealed with rubber grommets, the top
was plastic and screwed from the base upwards with a long stainless screw,
therefore holding it down from the inside. About a year after fitting the
bulb blew so after climbing the mast i found to my surprise that there was
about an inch of water inside. So bearing in mind what has been said here
How did that water get there?


I confess. I climbed up your mast and PUT that water there in
aniticpation of this usenet thread. G


"Goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:23:26 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_c...fuel_tanks.htm

The fact that they can't convert from degrees C to F properly spoils
it a bit..