"Larry" wrote in message
...
"mmc" wrote in
ng.com:


"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Charles Momsen" wrote in
news:2a53p5.4mg.17.1 @news.alt.net:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epz6BBZm__0

How utterly great! Thanks!

I didn't notice the retrieval lines that controlled the moment of the
ballast until they hauled it back in. Very ingenious....(c;

If Roger's research vessel had these balls.....he'd be home by
now....(c;

I figured out the retrieval, but how he get the bags out there in the
first place? Help from shore?




If he filled the bags at the hand rail, that would be more than enough
moment to haul the boat over from vertical by winching on the halyards.
Once the boat started over, the moment arm increases because the mast
tilts out, dragging the bags further and further away from the boat,
increasing their torque on the roll to equal the increasing torque in
the other direction from the increasing moment of the keel bulb ballast
going further and further away from centerline. It wouldn't require
anyone off the boat to roll it over. The slack lines from the boat
directly to the bags to retrieve them back towards the boat, gives him
the decreased moment and torque so the bulb ballast will self right it
after the bridge passage (or after you got the damned thing off the
sandbar...(c

Just winch the bags back into the handrail while slackening the halyards
to prevent the mast from hauling them off the water and she'll stand
right back up again.....very nicely.

I'm more interested in their use to recover from groundings than bridge
passages. To have the self-contained power to lay the boat on its side
to unstick the keel from the pluff mud around here and simply back
yourself off the mud, is worth its weight in gold! This is especially
true when Towboat/US tells you then can get to you in 2 hours while
you're WATCHING THE TIDE GO OUT while aground...(c;

I helped a nice 44' cruiser off the mud by using my 175hp jetboat to
pull on the top of his mainmast to starboard, freeing his bulb so he
could power the ketch off the mud with the handrail in the water...as
the tide was going out, by the way. I kept the pressure on as his 6-cyl
Perkins dragged us both out into the channel where I slacked off to self
right it. Worked great...levers and high school physics....



Thanks for the explanation Larry. Makes sense.

On 29 Oct 2008 14:12:47 GMT, Larry wrote:

I'm more interested in their use to recover from groundings than bridge
passages. To have the self-contained power to lay the boat on its side
to unstick the keel from the pluff mud around here and simply back
yourself off the mud, is worth its weight in gold!


Me too Larry. I'm in a situation where I need to move Valkyrie to
another marina that's a bit shallow for my 6-1/2 ft. draft. It is
soft, silted mud. Experience tells me I can push through as much as 2
ft of it, which is about what I'll be lacking.

However....

I rigged up 3 25-gal "buckets". I figured 20 gal each, so a total of
500 lbs. Hooked 'um up to the spinaker halyard and started hoisting.
WHEW, it gets difficult, then impossible. Ran the halyard to the
manual anchor windless. Lots of tension with creaking and groaning,
then got worried when bucket # 3 was half out the water.

I think my pulley up there must be binding because it was puting a
HECK of a lot of tension on the halyard, then a second or two later
the buckets would move up, then seem to kind of "creep" up an inch or
two. Seems to me 500 lbs shouldn't take that much effort, especially
using a 2-speed anchor windless????

I was in the slip, stuck there in fact since the water was waaaay low.
Shoved the buckets out about 8 ft. from the boat with a spinaker pole
and heeled over about 3 deg according to the inclinometer.

All in all, not a very sucessful experiment.

Rick



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On 2008-10-31 06:56:36 -0400, Rick Morel said:

On 29 Oct 2008 14:12:47 GMT, Larry wrote:

I'm more interested in their use to recover from groundings than bridge
passages. To have the self-contained power to lay the boat on its side
to unstick the keel from the pluff mud around here and simply back
yourself off the mud, is worth its weight in gold!


Me too Larry. I'm in a situation where I need to move Valkyrie to
another marina that's a bit shallow for my 6-1/2 ft. draft. It is
soft, silted mud. Experience tells me I can push through as much as 2
ft of it, which is about what I'll be lacking.

However....

I rigged up 3 25-gal "buckets". I figured 20 gal each, so a total of
500 lbs. Hooked 'um up to the spinaker halyard and started hoisting.
WHEW, it gets difficult, then impossible. Ran the halyard to the
manual anchor windless. Lots of tension with creaking and groaning,
then got worried when bucket # 3 was half out the water.

I think my pulley up there must be binding because it was puting a
HECK of a lot of tension on the halyard, then a second or two later
the buckets would move up, then seem to kind of "creep" up an inch or
two. Seems to me 500 lbs shouldn't take that much effort, especially
using a 2-speed anchor windless????

I was in the slip, stuck there in fact since the water was waaaay low.
Shoved the buckets out about 8 ft. from the boat with a spinaker pole
and heeled over about 3 deg according to the inclinometer.

All in all, not a very sucessful experiment.

Seems you need to run the spinnaker halyard differently as it shouldn't
bind like that.

Once that's sorted out, try pulling the weight further out with another
boat or a dink. 8' doesn't give much moment.

OR wait until you get a blow from the right direction to give you
higher water. I forget where you're sailing, but 'round here, a strong
southerly will give us a couple of extra feet, a northerly can make it
impossible to move from our slip (we draw 4'2")

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:11:29 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

Seems you need to run the spinnaker halyard differently as it shouldn't
bind like that.

Once that's sorted out, try pulling the weight further out with another
boat or a dink. 8' doesn't give much moment.

OR wait until you get a blow from the right direction to give you
higher water. I forget where you're sailing, but 'round here, a strong
southerly will give us a couple of extra feet, a northerly can make it
impossible to move from our slip (we draw 4'2")

--
Jere Lull


Thanks Jere. I was a bit disgusted, but now am thinking of hoisting up
a _good_ block on the spinnaker halyard and giving another go. When I
tried it, the water was really low, stuck on bottom, and couldn't get
out of the slip, so not much room to play with the buckets. I'm sure
it'll swing out in a turn, like the "boat balls" guy does.

Yes, same here re wind direction. North wind and we ain't going
nowhere, South wind and as much as 3 ft above normal. The forecast for
Tuesday is SE at 10-15 kts. Hopefully that'll do it. Of course high
tide at almost midnight. Grrrrrrr...

Rick

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Rick Morel wrote in
:

I was in the slip, stuck there in fact since the water was waaaay low.
Shoved the buckets out about 8 ft. from the boat with a spinaker pole
and heeled over about 3 deg according to the inclinometer.



The trouble with this idea alongside a dock is that if the bulb is in the
mud and you roll the boat with ballast bags, the CG of the boat moves
SIDEWAYS, either towards or away from the dock. The fulcrum for the roll
is in the mud UNTIL the boat pops free of it, which may cause a violent
lateral movement of the hull as the pressure is released from the mud
fulcrum! That might not be too healthy alongside a dock. If you roll the
boat towards the dock, the deck will try to go UNDER the dock as it tilts
that way. If you roll the boat away from the dock, you'll be pulling the
boat over away from the dock and if you have dock lines holding the boat to
the dock that can't be good for the cleats/lines/dock itself with all that
pressure pulling it away.

I don't think using this ballast is a good idea stuck in the mud alongside
a dock as it may result in unpredictable sideways movement of the
hull...smashing very expensive gelcoat eggshell against the dock...after
crushing and exploding the fenders, perhaps...(c;

On 2008-10-31 11:31:34 -0400, Rick Morel said:

Of course high tide at almost midnight. Grrrrrrr...

and Noon....

Or do you only get one tide? Never have figured that out, quite.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Sat, 01 Nov 2008 03:12:54 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-10-31 11:31:34 -0400, Rick Morel said:

Of course high tide at almost midnight. Grrrrrrr...

and Noon....

Or do you only get one tide? Never have figured that out, quite.

Kind of hard to read because it wrapped around, but yes one tide a few
days.


Date Day Time Height Time Height Time
Height Time Height Time Height
11/01/2008 Sat 03:04PM LDT 0.1 L 11:21PM LDT 1.8 H
11/02/2008 Sun 02:23AM LST 1.7 L 03:31AM LST 1.8 H 02:45PM LST 0.2
L
11/03/2008 Mon 03:51AM LST 1.8 H 03:32PM LST 0.2 L
11/04/2008 Tue 03:56AM LST 1.8 H 04:24PM LST 0.3 L
11/05/2008 Wed 02:12AM LST 1.7 H 05:21PM LST 0.4 L
11/06/2008 Thu 02:14AM LST 1.7 H 06:23PM LST 0.5 L
11/07/2008 Fri 02:20AM LST 1.7 H 07:29PM LST 0.7 L
11/08/2008 Sat 02:25AM LST 1.6 H 09:50AM LST 1.1 L 01:55PM LST 1.4
H 08:36PM LST 0.9 L
11/09/2008 Sun 02:29AM LST 1.5 H 09:43AM LST 0.7 L 03:25PM LST 1.5
H 09:43PM LST 1.1 L
11/10/2008 Mon 02:31AM LST 1.5 H 10:02AM LST 0.4 L 04:36PM LST 1.7
H 10:47PM LST 1.3 L
11/11/2008 Tue 02:31AM LST 1.5 H 10:33AM LST 0.1 L 05:38PM LST 1.9
H 11:47PM LST 1.5 L
11/12/2008 Wed 02:33AM LST 1.6 H 11:11AM LST -0.2 L 06:36PM LST 2.0
H



Actually, wind direction and speed make a very much larger difference.
The problem now is watching out for Southerly winds and moving it
then.

Oh yeah, I'm in South Lousiana. The Port of Iberia at the moment, but
hoping to move to Intracoastal City.

Rick
coo-coo with a case of the flu.... YUCK

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **