crash boom bucks!
 

Oh, I like this! Quoting the man who wrote a book titled "Mine's bigger
than yours.",

""right-of-way" doesn't apply when one of the vessels is restricted by sheer
size."

That's not in any rules I ever read. If MF was in a channel and unable to
change course then he would have a defense. OTOH, if the smaller vessel
tacked into a right of way position before MF could reasonably respond,
which is somewhat a size issue, than she was not actually the stand on
vessel.

I hope those of you on the west coast will keep us updated on this.

--
Roger Long

crash boom bucks! Dumb question
 

Roger Long wrote:
Oh, I like this! Quoting the man who wrote a book titled "Mine's bigger
than yours.",

""right-of-way" doesn't apply when one of the vessels is restricted by
sheer size."

That's not in any rules I ever read. If MF was in a channel and unable
to change course then he would have a defense. OTOH, if the smaller
vessel tacked into a right of way position before MF could reasonably
respond, which is somewhat a size issue, than she was not actually the
stand on vessel.

I hope those of you on the west coast will keep us updated on this.


Based on the fact that the MF is a square rigged boat, it appears that
based on the set of the sails the wind is coming from the rear on the
port beam or about 220 to 230 degrees from the bow. In the pictures it
looks like the smaller boat is tacking into the wind on a tight reach.

If so from a simple boat to boat rules the smaller boat has the right of
way. Thing change when considering the size, channel, etc.

Is my wind analysis wrong?

crash boom bucks!
 

On Oct 15, 2:09*pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
...OTOH, if the smaller vessel
tacked into a right of way position before MF could reasonably respond,
which is somewhat a size issue, than she was not actually the stand on
vessel....

AFIK, "Stand By" didn't tack. The photos show her on stb for the
entire collision. I'm guessing that some of the folks who said she
tacked saw her spin after she made contact -- and perhaps because the
sound was delayed thought she spun before the collision.

I also don't think MF is claiming rule 9 rights so it is a little
theoretical, but do folks think that 9(b) means that a sailing vessel
can't have rule 9 rights at all or that a sailing vessel that can only
navigate in a narrow channel has rights but still gives way to non-
sailing vessels?

--Tom.

crash boom bucks!
 

wrote

AFIK, "Stand By" didn't tack. The photos show her on stb for the entire
collision.

Yes, but you can't alter course into a right of way position when the other
vessel doesn't have time to respond. Given the size and response time of
MF, the smaller vessel could have been carrying it's burdened status from a
tack that occured well before the photos begin. It's a little different
when a vessel has to tack because of shore or obstruction. If the smaller
vessel was tacking off a shore, the MF should have anticipated that it would
need to do so. Such a situation is a good time to use the radio.

--
Roger Long

crash boom bucks! Dumb question
 

Hard to say. Looking at the sails of both boats I think MF was close
reaching but not necessarily close hauled. If her sails were square to the
wind, the smaller boats sails would be aback. I'd like to be able to stop
the animation though to be sure.

--
Roger Long

crash boom bucks!
 

On Oct 15, 3:03*pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
wrote

AFIK, "Stand By" didn't tack. *The photos show her on stb for the entire
collision.

Yes, but you can't alter course into a right of way position when the other
vessel doesn't have time to respond. *...

Amen. The crux of the question seems to be if SB turned and hit MF or
if MF turned and cut off SB. This is the set-up according to the
owner of MF:

quote
The "stann By" was originally on a roughly reciprocal course to that
of the Falcon. Prior to the photos shown here, "Stann By" was bearing
away, and the two yachts were on safe courses to pass roughly with a
distance of 200 feet separation.
unquote

Everyone agrees on this part. The question is if this:

quote
After the "Stann By" had sailed past the Falcon's bow, the smaller
vessel suddenly rounded up, possibly to tack in order to follow the
Falcon, when she lost control, and with her main sheeted hard in, the
smaller boat was unable to bear away to avoid a collision.
unquote

I don't think the photos support that assertion, but they're telephoto
from a long way off. SB says MF rounded up in front of them and
caused the collision -- this seems plausible photographically, but
again photos can lie... If you look at the photo sequences they have
time stamps and it is clear that MF began a major turn to port in the
two minute period before SB comes into frame. It is clear that SB
didn't intend to tack as the jib is still fast to port after they get
spun by the collision. SB's sails are luffing for the entire time
they are in frame but the collision is hard enough to do major damage
which makes me wonder if the MF was still altering port and thus
swinging towards SB.

--Tom.

crash boom bucks! Dumb question
 

"Roger Long" wrote
I'd like to be able to stop the animation though to be sure.

There's a link under the animation that will take you to the still images.
http://lyonsimaging.smugmug.com/gall...86640001_ojnQx

crash boom bucks! Dumb question
 

On Oct 15, 2:45*pm, Keith nuttle wrote:
....
Based on the fact that the MF is a square rigged boat, it appears that
based on the set of the sails the wind is coming from the rear on the
port beam or about 220 to 230 degrees from the bow. *In the pictures it
looks like the smaller boat is tacking into the wind on a tight reach.

I think MF is a little different than your "typical" square rigged
boat because the yards are bent and the sails are set to develop
lift. For our needs I think it is close enough to say that the
weather end of the each yard is pointing into the apparent wind. The
foremast will be in clear air and the apparent wind will be like that
of a sloop sailing at similar speeds. The main and mizzen will be
progressively headed and so will be trimmed closer than they would be
on a sloop. The wind was westerly. On this frame:
http://lyonsimaging.smugmug.com/gall...86639934_y45aP
MF was heading roughly North and in the next frame was heading more or
less NW I think. In the first frame she was reaching and in the
second about as close as she is likely able to get to beating to my
eye. The frames are at at about 3 second intervals.

If so from a simple boat to boat rules the smaller boat has the right of
* way. *Thing change when considering the size, channel, etc.

Yes. MF is on port SB is on stb. Rule 12 a(i) makes MF the give way
vessel and SB stand on. But, of course, everyone must avoid
collisions per Rule 8.


Is my wind analysis wrong?

Seems close enough to me.

--Tom.

crash boom bucks! Dumb question
 

I found the still photos and I think your are is right. MF was turning to
port, away from SB, and nearly close hauled at the point of collision.
Since she was turning away at the time of collision and giving SB more room,
she might well be blameless. Imagine facing a rub rail repair that costs
more than your whole boat! OTOH, if the original course would have taken MF
astern of SB and SB had maintained a straight course the bulk of the blame
would be on MF.

My best guess at this point would be misjudgement by SB due to the size of
MR combined with a desire to make a close pass. The degree of stern swing
in a turn of a vessel that large will enormous compared to what the SB
operator might expect thinking of her as a "sailboat". A vessel of that
size is of necessity rather shoal in proportion to length. Turning from a
reach to close hauled, it will take a while to accellerate to a speed where
the underbody is fully effective and there will be a few boat lengths of
greater leeway. This could add up to where MF was quickly half a boat
length, a huge amount at this scale, closer to SB than anticipated. Throw
in a few moments of deer in the headlights indecision about whether to head
up or fall off and CRASH!

--
Roger Long

crash boom bucks! Dumb question
 

ummm......my thought was how stupid do you actually have to be to run
a 40' boat into the side of a 200' boat in day time with good
visability.
Then i read this page and yall act as if the guy in the 200' boat that
got nailed in the SIDE was at fault. most boats dont move sideways
throught the water nor do they instantly make full speed. what it
looks to me is yet another gawker was going by and was not paying
attention to the helm (I assume he was looking in a camera or
something) and smashed into some one elses boat. happens all the
bloody time.