Doug

What is the distance between the base of the antenna and the support
clamp. I only have about 3 ft. Does the antenna bounce around much in
rough seas.

Roger



"Doug Dotson" wrote in message ...
Roger,

We have the 23' whip and it works great. Also have a split
backstay, but since the whip was on the boat when we bought
it, I decided to stick with it. I'm not familiar with the 17' whip
you mention. It would appear to me that you may not be
abot to get good tuning acrosss the bands. The specs for the
tuner say that a 23' minimum length is required if I recall
correctly.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Roger" wrote in message
om...
I am installing an Icom 802 ssb with a 140 tuner. I am looking for
advice/experience on the difference in performance between
Shakespeare's 17'6" whip vs. the 23' whip.

I have a sloop with a split backstay and probably will go with a
whip.I only have about 3' between the antenna base and the mounting
clamp on the transom. Insulating the backstay and running the feed
wire along the split (through the bimini) is my second choice.

Contrary to popular myth, an antenna does not radiate one bit better
or worse if it is resonant or not.

With a short antenna the impedance gets to be really low. In the order
of an ohm or so with a typical 2 mhz antenna. The problem is getting
power to the low impedance antenna. Partly because of losses in
matching networks and partly because of ground impedance losses.

If you could get all the power into a 6" short antenna it would
radiate just as well as a full quarter wave length antenna.

The current is not less with a short antenna it is greater. That is
the reason for the higher loss. With a very short antenna the high
current in the antenna also causes losses. The current has to be
greater because the impedance is lower.
Nothing to do with the kind of fields that form around it.

Another myth is that you can change the electrical length of an
antenna by adding loading coils or other means.
Electrical length of an antenna is the same as it's physical length.
Plus a slight amount for propagation delay over it.

The physical length of an antenna IS also it's electrical length. You
can't change that.
What you can change is the matching to that antenna with inductors and
capacitors (or transmission line matching devices) to make the
antennas impedance and reactance match your transmitter.

There is no such thing as making a short antenna "look" like a quarter
wave antenna by adding a coil to it. Example: If you have a physical
1/8 wave length antenna you can not make it into a quarter wave length
antenna "electrically" by adding a loading coil to it. The coil may
serve to help match the antenna to the transmitter but you still have
an 1/8 wave length antenna electrically and physically.

And again: if you can get the same amount of power into the 1/8 wave
length antenna as you can get into a quarter wave length antenna, they
will radiate equally as well.

As far as using an antenna that is a quarter wave length long with a
tuner, you are probably better off with an antenna that is something
other than a quarter wave length as most tuners have a hard time
dealing with resonant antennas.

Regards
Gary

Contrary to popular myth, an antenna does not radiate one bit better
or worse if it is resonant or not.

With a short antenna the impedance gets to be really low. In the order
of an ohm or so with a typical 2 mhz antenna. The problem is getting
power to the low impedance antenna. Partly because of losses in
matching networks and partly because of ground impedance losses.

If you could get all the power into a 6" short antenna it would
radiate just as well as a full quarter wave length antenna.

The current is not less with a short antenna it is greater. That is
the reason for the higher loss. With a very short antenna the high
current in the antenna also causes losses. The current has to be
greater because the impedance is lower.
Nothing to do with the kind of fields that form around it.

Another myth is that you can change the electrical length of an
antenna by adding loading coils or other means.
Electrical length of an antenna is the same as it's physical length.
Plus a slight amount for propagation delay over it.

The physical length of an antenna IS also it's electrical length. You
can't change that.
What you can change is the matching to that antenna with inductors and
capacitors (or transmission line matching devices) to make the
antennas impedance and reactance match your transmitter.

There is no such thing as making a short antenna "look" like a quarter
wave antenna by adding a coil to it. Example: If you have a physical
1/8 wave length antenna you can not make it into a quarter wave length
antenna "electrically" by adding a loading coil to it. The coil may
serve to help match the antenna to the transmitter but you still have
an 1/8 wave length antenna electrically and physically.

And again: if you can get the same amount of power into the 1/8 wave
length antenna as you can get into a quarter wave length antenna, they
will radiate equally as well.

As far as using an antenna that is a quarter wave length long with a
tuner, you are probably better off with an antenna that is something
other than a quarter wave length as most tuners have a hard time
dealing with resonant antennas.

Regards
Gary

Gary Schafer wrote in
:

Contrary to popular myth, an antenna does not radiate one bit better
or worse if it is resonant or not.

It won't radiate much if it is not resonant. Try operating that 17' whip
with no tuner. The only thing a tuner does is resonate the antenna.


With a short antenna the impedance gets to be really low. In the order
of an ohm or so with a typical 2 mhz antenna. The problem is getting
power to the low impedance antenna. Partly because of losses in
matching networks and partly because of ground impedance losses.

Backwards. A 2' piece of wire on 2 Mhz has a feed point impedance damned
near infinity. A resonant wire 117' long, on the other hand, has a
feedpoint impedance of about 12-18 ohms if it's vertical close to ground.
The reason the 2' wire won't radiate on 2 Mhz is its impedance along its
entire length is so HIGH there isn't any antenna current to create an H-
field to radiate.


If you could get all the power into a 6" short antenna it would
radiate just as well as a full quarter wave length antenna.

Oh, if it were only true! All radio stations in the world could tear down
those big beautiful towers that are so costly. I can get 50KW into a 6"
antenna, but the voltage would be so high from the HIGH impedance we'd have
trouble trying to keep it from flashing over. Been there, done that.

The current is not less with a short antenna it is greater. That is
the reason for the higher loss. With a very short antenna the high
current in the antenna also causes losses. The current has to be
greater because the impedance is lower.
Nothing to do with the kind of fields that form around it.

Would you like to lay your boat's title on that? A very short antenna has
no current in it to speak of. Current in any radiator occurs at odd-
multiples of 1/4 wavelength back from the open end (insulator).

Another myth is that you can change the electrical length of an
antenna by adding loading coils or other means.
Electrical length of an antenna is the same as it's physical length.
Plus a slight amount for propagation delay over it.

Where DO you get this information? The entire purpose of adding series
coils and parallel capacitor hats is to vary the ELECTRICAL length of a
radiator, to make it electrically longer! The feedpoint impedance of my
15' long heavily-loaded (both with series coils and a large capacitor hat)
on 3.9 Mhz is around 12 ohms....just like a 1/4 wavelength vertical
radiator that is over 60 FEET long! The physical length is 15', the
electrical length is 64 FEET!


The physical length of an antenna IS also it's electrical length. You
can't change that.
What you can change is the matching to that antenna with inductors and
capacitors (or transmission line matching devices) to make the
antennas impedance and reactance match your transmitter.

There is no such thing as making a short antenna "look" like a quarter
wave antenna by adding a coil to it. Example: If you have a physical
1/8 wave length antenna you can not make it into a quarter wave length
antenna "electrically" by adding a loading coil to it. The coil may
serve to help match the antenna to the transmitter but you still have
an 1/8 wave length antenna electrically and physically.

And again: if you can get the same amount of power into the 1/8 wave
length antenna as you can get into a quarter wave length antenna, they
will radiate equally as well.

As far as using an antenna that is a quarter wave length long with a
tuner, you are probably better off with an antenna that is something
other than a quarter wave length as most tuners have a hard time
dealing with resonant antennas.

Regards
Gary

Gary, which university did you learn this from? What schooling in RF
engineering do you have? I'd like to take the course to expose them.

Larry W4CSC

"Boat electronics has nothing to do with PHYSICS and common sense."

Gary Schafer wrote in
:

Contrary to popular myth, an antenna does not radiate one bit better
or worse if it is resonant or not.

It won't radiate much if it is not resonant. Try operating that 17' whip
with no tuner. The only thing a tuner does is resonate the antenna.


With a short antenna the impedance gets to be really low. In the order
of an ohm or so with a typical 2 mhz antenna. The problem is getting
power to the low impedance antenna. Partly because of losses in
matching networks and partly because of ground impedance losses.

Backwards. A 2' piece of wire on 2 Mhz has a feed point impedance damned
near infinity. A resonant wire 117' long, on the other hand, has a
feedpoint impedance of about 12-18 ohms if it's vertical close to ground.
The reason the 2' wire won't radiate on 2 Mhz is its impedance along its
entire length is so HIGH there isn't any antenna current to create an H-
field to radiate.


If you could get all the power into a 6" short antenna it would
radiate just as well as a full quarter wave length antenna.

Oh, if it were only true! All radio stations in the world could tear down
those big beautiful towers that are so costly. I can get 50KW into a 6"
antenna, but the voltage would be so high from the HIGH impedance we'd have
trouble trying to keep it from flashing over. Been there, done that.

The current is not less with a short antenna it is greater. That is
the reason for the higher loss. With a very short antenna the high
current in the antenna also causes losses. The current has to be
greater because the impedance is lower.
Nothing to do with the kind of fields that form around it.

Would you like to lay your boat's title on that? A very short antenna has
no current in it to speak of. Current in any radiator occurs at odd-
multiples of 1/4 wavelength back from the open end (insulator).

Another myth is that you can change the electrical length of an
antenna by adding loading coils or other means.
Electrical length of an antenna is the same as it's physical length.
Plus a slight amount for propagation delay over it.

Where DO you get this information? The entire purpose of adding series
coils and parallel capacitor hats is to vary the ELECTRICAL length of a
radiator, to make it electrically longer! The feedpoint impedance of my
15' long heavily-loaded (both with series coils and a large capacitor hat)
on 3.9 Mhz is around 12 ohms....just like a 1/4 wavelength vertical
radiator that is over 60 FEET long! The physical length is 15', the
electrical length is 64 FEET!


The physical length of an antenna IS also it's electrical length. You
can't change that.
What you can change is the matching to that antenna with inductors and
capacitors (or transmission line matching devices) to make the
antennas impedance and reactance match your transmitter.

There is no such thing as making a short antenna "look" like a quarter
wave antenna by adding a coil to it. Example: If you have a physical
1/8 wave length antenna you can not make it into a quarter wave length
antenna "electrically" by adding a loading coil to it. The coil may
serve to help match the antenna to the transmitter but you still have
an 1/8 wave length antenna electrically and physically.

And again: if you can get the same amount of power into the 1/8 wave
length antenna as you can get into a quarter wave length antenna, they
will radiate equally as well.

As far as using an antenna that is a quarter wave length long with a
tuner, you are probably better off with an antenna that is something
other than a quarter wave length as most tuners have a hard time
dealing with resonant antennas.

Regards
Gary

Gary, which university did you learn this from? What schooling in RF
engineering do you have? I'd like to take the course to expose them.

Larry W4CSC

"Boat electronics has nothing to do with PHYSICS and common sense."

(Roger) wrote in
om:

Larry

Thanks for the informative message. Your suggestion on feeding the
backstay from both chainplates is interesting. Unfortunately I have a
hydraulic backstay tensioner on one leg and a backstay radar mount on
the other. Sooo I guess my alternatives a

running the wire from the tuner along one leg of the split backstay
(with stand-offs) to an insulated backstay

going with a 23 ft whip

BTY - I have already used up one chance on the MMSI code. I registered
by VHF radio with Boat US prior to getting the SSB (thus now needing
an FCC license). The FCC requires an new MMSI code.



Putting a good-quality insulator designed for the strain near the top of a
shroud is every bit as good as the backstay antenna IF there are no OTHER
shrouds running right next to it. There would be more mast loading effects
because the mast is much closer to the shrouds than the backstay, but
everything here is a compromise.

"Lionheart's" main backstay is a crank-operated tensioner, a big screw
affair at the bottom of the stay you put a winch handle in to change it.
I'm feeding the tuner in right at the top of this device, which keeps the
device from being part of the antenna length up to the top. Fed as low in
the impedance path as it is, it doesn't change the tuning appreciably.
Getting that main boom topping lift changed from stainless cable to nylon
line was the BIG improvement up towards the high impedance end.

I know it would be a pain-in-the-ass and against all "boat instinct"
because you'd have to go out and TUNE the coil, but that Henry Allen
bugcatcher coil in the middle of a 23' long whip with no "tuner" at the
base, would just whip the pants off an automatic or manual tuner on a
simpleton 23' wire whip on signal strength at the receiver. You only need
to tune the antenna when you change BANDS, not move a few channels in the
same band (like going from Channel 602 to 608 on the 6 Mhz band). Once you
found the "sweet spot" for the coil tap for each band, you can change
frequency bands in 15 seconds and have a commanding signal if your
grounding system is any good.... If I had to have a "whip", I'd have a
stainless steel base section about 6 feet long, a Henry Allen 6" diameter
coil and a top section made of a 102" stainless steel CB whip. That'll
resonate way down into 2 Mhz with great signals....once you tuned it. Mine
does....(c;

Simply spraying WD-40 on the coil would keep it from corroding. Mine does.

Larry W4CSC
S/V "Lionheart"
WDB6254 366920680

PS - Wait until you have to cancel one FCC license for the OLD
boat....yecch!

(Roger) wrote in
om:

Larry

Thanks for the informative message. Your suggestion on feeding the
backstay from both chainplates is interesting. Unfortunately I have a
hydraulic backstay tensioner on one leg and a backstay radar mount on
the other. Sooo I guess my alternatives a

running the wire from the tuner along one leg of the split backstay
(with stand-offs) to an insulated backstay

going with a 23 ft whip

BTY - I have already used up one chance on the MMSI code. I registered
by VHF radio with Boat US prior to getting the SSB (thus now needing
an FCC license). The FCC requires an new MMSI code.



Putting a good-quality insulator designed for the strain near the top of a
shroud is every bit as good as the backstay antenna IF there are no OTHER
shrouds running right next to it. There would be more mast loading effects
because the mast is much closer to the shrouds than the backstay, but
everything here is a compromise.

"Lionheart's" main backstay is a crank-operated tensioner, a big screw
affair at the bottom of the stay you put a winch handle in to change it.
I'm feeding the tuner in right at the top of this device, which keeps the
device from being part of the antenna length up to the top. Fed as low in
the impedance path as it is, it doesn't change the tuning appreciably.
Getting that main boom topping lift changed from stainless cable to nylon
line was the BIG improvement up towards the high impedance end.

I know it would be a pain-in-the-ass and against all "boat instinct"
because you'd have to go out and TUNE the coil, but that Henry Allen
bugcatcher coil in the middle of a 23' long whip with no "tuner" at the
base, would just whip the pants off an automatic or manual tuner on a
simpleton 23' wire whip on signal strength at the receiver. You only need
to tune the antenna when you change BANDS, not move a few channels in the
same band (like going from Channel 602 to 608 on the 6 Mhz band). Once you
found the "sweet spot" for the coil tap for each band, you can change
frequency bands in 15 seconds and have a commanding signal if your
grounding system is any good.... If I had to have a "whip", I'd have a
stainless steel base section about 6 feet long, a Henry Allen 6" diameter
coil and a top section made of a 102" stainless steel CB whip. That'll
resonate way down into 2 Mhz with great signals....once you tuned it. Mine
does....(c;

Simply spraying WD-40 on the coil would keep it from corroding. Mine does.

Larry W4CSC
S/V "Lionheart"
WDB6254 366920680

PS - Wait until you have to cancel one FCC license for the OLD
boat....yecch!

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:05:15 -0000, Larry W4CSC
wrote:

Gary Schafer wrote in
:

Contrary to popular myth, an antenna does not radiate one bit better
or worse if it is resonant or not.

It won't radiate much if it is not resonant. Try operating that 17' whip
with no tuner. The only thing a tuner does is resonate the antenna.

No, what the tuner does is match your feed line to your antenna.


With a short antenna the impedance gets to be really low. In the order
of an ohm or so with a typical 2 mhz antenna. The problem is getting
power to the low impedance antenna. Partly because of losses in
matching networks and partly because of ground impedance losses.

Backwards. A 2' piece of wire on 2 Mhz has a feed point impedance damned
near infinity. A resonant wire 117' long, on the other hand, has a
feedpoint impedance of about 12-18 ohms if it's vertical close to ground.
The reason the 2' wire won't radiate on 2 Mhz is its impedance along its
entire length is so HIGH there isn't any antenna current to create an H-
field to radiate.

Your 2' piece of wire has a high capacitive REACTANCE. In order to get
power into it you need an equal inductive reactance (coil) to cancel
the capactive reactance to make it appear resistive. That resistance
will be a very low value.

A quarter wave vertical antenna has an impedance of around 36 ohms by
the way.


If you could get all the power into a 6" short antenna it would
radiate just as well as a full quarter wave length antenna.

Oh, if it were only true! All radio stations in the world could tear down
those big beautiful towers that are so costly. I can get 50KW into a 6"
antenna, but the voltage would be so high from the HIGH impedance we'd have
trouble trying to keep it from flashing over. Been there, done that.

Please tell us how you can get 50 kw into a 6" antenna at HF? This is
the problem that I am telling you. Losses are so high in the antenna
and matching network that little power makes it to the antenna.

But what power you do get into it will radiate just as well as the
same amount of power in a larger antenna.


The current is not less with a short antenna it is greater. That is
the reason for the higher loss. With a very short antenna the high
current in the antenna also causes losses. The current has to be
greater because the impedance is lower.
Nothing to do with the kind of fields that form around it.

Would you like to lay your boat's title on that? A very short antenna has
no current in it to speak of. Current in any radiator occurs at odd-
multiples of 1/4 wavelength back from the open end (insulator).

You are confusing reactive power with real power.

Remember in tech school when they showed you an inductor and a
capacitor in series and applied a specific amount of AC voltage. You
were asked if the voltage across the inductor or capacitor could be
higher than the applied voltage?


Another myth is that you can change the electrical length of an
antenna by adding loading coils or other means.
Electrical length of an antenna is the same as it's physical length.
Plus a slight amount for propagation delay over it.

Where DO you get this information? The entire purpose of adding series
coils and parallel capacitor hats is to vary the ELECTRICAL length of a
radiator, to make it electrically longer! The feedpoint impedance of my
15' long heavily-loaded (both with series coils and a large capacitor hat)
on 3.9 Mhz is around 12 ohms....just like a 1/4 wavelength vertical
radiator that is over 60 FEET long! The physical length is 15', the
electrical length is 64 FEET!

If that were true then why wouldn't the feed point impedance of your
15 foot antenna be around 36 ohms like the full quarter wave length
vertical?

Sorry but your electrical length is only 15 feet. The same as the
physical length.
Your coil only serves as a matching device between the two sections of
antenna. It is canceling out the capacitive reactance.


The physical length of an antenna IS also it's electrical length. You
can't change that.
What you can change is the matching to that antenna with inductors and
capacitors (or transmission line matching devices) to make the
antennas impedance and reactance match your transmitter.

There is no such thing as making a short antenna "look" like a quarter
wave antenna by adding a coil to it. Example: If you have a physical
1/8 wave length antenna you can not make it into a quarter wave length
antenna "electrically" by adding a loading coil to it. The coil may
serve to help match the antenna to the transmitter but you still have
an 1/8 wave length antenna electrically and physically.

And again: if you can get the same amount of power into the 1/8 wave
length antenna as you can get into a quarter wave length antenna, they
will radiate equally as well.

As far as using an antenna that is a quarter wave length long with a
tuner, you are probably better off with an antenna that is something
other than a quarter wave length as most tuners have a hard time
dealing with resonant antennas.

Regards
Gary

Gary, which university did you learn this from? What schooling in RF
engineering do you have? I'd like to take the course to expose them.

Read any of your mobile radio antenna handbooks. They will explain the
basics in there on short antennas.

Also in your regular antenna handbook read about an all band 112'
dipole fed with open wire feed line. Not resonent on ANY band.

Regards
Gary

Larry W4CSC

"Boat electronics has nothing to do with PHYSICS and common sense."

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:05:15 -0000, Larry W4CSC
wrote:

Gary Schafer wrote in
:

Contrary to popular myth, an antenna does not radiate one bit better
or worse if it is resonant or not.

It won't radiate much if it is not resonant. Try operating that 17' whip
with no tuner. The only thing a tuner does is resonate the antenna.

No, what the tuner does is match your feed line to your antenna.


With a short antenna the impedance gets to be really low. In the order
of an ohm or so with a typical 2 mhz antenna. The problem is getting
power to the low impedance antenna. Partly because of losses in
matching networks and partly because of ground impedance losses.

Backwards. A 2' piece of wire on 2 Mhz has a feed point impedance damned
near infinity. A resonant wire 117' long, on the other hand, has a
feedpoint impedance of about 12-18 ohms if it's vertical close to ground.
The reason the 2' wire won't radiate on 2 Mhz is its impedance along its
entire length is so HIGH there isn't any antenna current to create an H-
field to radiate.

Your 2' piece of wire has a high capacitive REACTANCE. In order to get
power into it you need an equal inductive reactance (coil) to cancel
the capactive reactance to make it appear resistive. That resistance
will be a very low value.

A quarter wave vertical antenna has an impedance of around 36 ohms by
the way.


If you could get all the power into a 6" short antenna it would
radiate just as well as a full quarter wave length antenna.

Oh, if it were only true! All radio stations in the world could tear down
those big beautiful towers that are so costly. I can get 50KW into a 6"
antenna, but the voltage would be so high from the HIGH impedance we'd have
trouble trying to keep it from flashing over. Been there, done that.

Please tell us how you can get 50 kw into a 6" antenna at HF? This is
the problem that I am telling you. Losses are so high in the antenna
and matching network that little power makes it to the antenna.

But what power you do get into it will radiate just as well as the
same amount of power in a larger antenna.


The current is not less with a short antenna it is greater. That is
the reason for the higher loss. With a very short antenna the high
current in the antenna also causes losses. The current has to be
greater because the impedance is lower.
Nothing to do with the kind of fields that form around it.

Would you like to lay your boat's title on that? A very short antenna has
no current in it to speak of. Current in any radiator occurs at odd-
multiples of 1/4 wavelength back from the open end (insulator).

You are confusing reactive power with real power.

Remember in tech school when they showed you an inductor and a
capacitor in series and applied a specific amount of AC voltage. You
were asked if the voltage across the inductor or capacitor could be
higher than the applied voltage?


Another myth is that you can change the electrical length of an
antenna by adding loading coils or other means.
Electrical length of an antenna is the same as it's physical length.
Plus a slight amount for propagation delay over it.

Where DO you get this information? The entire purpose of adding series
coils and parallel capacitor hats is to vary the ELECTRICAL length of a
radiator, to make it electrically longer! The feedpoint impedance of my
15' long heavily-loaded (both with series coils and a large capacitor hat)
on 3.9 Mhz is around 12 ohms....just like a 1/4 wavelength vertical
radiator that is over 60 FEET long! The physical length is 15', the
electrical length is 64 FEET!

If that were true then why wouldn't the feed point impedance of your
15 foot antenna be around 36 ohms like the full quarter wave length
vertical?

Sorry but your electrical length is only 15 feet. The same as the
physical length.
Your coil only serves as a matching device between the two sections of
antenna. It is canceling out the capacitive reactance.


The physical length of an antenna IS also it's electrical length. You
can't change that.
What you can change is the matching to that antenna with inductors and
capacitors (or transmission line matching devices) to make the
antennas impedance and reactance match your transmitter.

There is no such thing as making a short antenna "look" like a quarter
wave antenna by adding a coil to it. Example: If you have a physical
1/8 wave length antenna you can not make it into a quarter wave length
antenna "electrically" by adding a loading coil to it. The coil may
serve to help match the antenna to the transmitter but you still have
an 1/8 wave length antenna electrically and physically.

And again: if you can get the same amount of power into the 1/8 wave
length antenna as you can get into a quarter wave length antenna, they
will radiate equally as well.

As far as using an antenna that is a quarter wave length long with a
tuner, you are probably better off with an antenna that is something
other than a quarter wave length as most tuners have a hard time
dealing with resonant antennas.

Regards
Gary

Gary, which university did you learn this from? What schooling in RF
engineering do you have? I'd like to take the course to expose them.

Read any of your mobile radio antenna handbooks. They will explain the
basics in there on short antennas.

Also in your regular antenna handbook read about an all band 112'
dipole fed with open wire feed line. Not resonent on ANY band.

Regards
Gary

Larry W4CSC

"Boat electronics has nothing to do with PHYSICS and common sense."

Roger,

They way mine is installed is the base is secured to the transom
with a standard mounting, but there is a clamp on the side of the radar
arch that secures the lower portion about 6 feet above the base.
No problems with excessive movement in a seaway. If you don't have
an arch, them perhaps a couple of braces bay do the trick.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Roger" wrote in message
m...
Doug

What is the distance between the base of the antenna and the support
clamp. I only have about 3 ft. Does the antenna bounce around much in
rough seas.

Roger



"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
Roger,

We have the 23' whip and it works great. Also have a split
backstay, but since the whip was on the boat when we bought
it, I decided to stick with it. I'm not familiar with the 17' whip
you mention. It would appear to me that you may not be
abot to get good tuning acrosss the bands. The specs for the
tuner say that a 23' minimum length is required if I recall
correctly.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Roger" wrote in message
om...
I am installing an Icom 802 ssb with a 140 tuner. I am looking for
advice/experience on the difference in performance between
Shakespeare's 17'6" whip vs. the 23' whip.

I have a sloop with a split backstay and probably will go with a
whip.I only have about 3' between the antenna base and the mounting
clamp on the transom. Insulating the backstay and running the feed
wire along the split (through the bimini) is my second choice.