portable generator
 

On 18 Apr 2004 20:53:12 GMT, in message

(Drumm Law) wrote:

I have thought that the best way to hook up the generator would be to take a
standard shore cord set, and have the one end replaced with a plug that could
plug into the Honda/Yamaha . . . which should then use all systems that I use
when hooked up to shore power.

Won't this work? Or . . . am I missing something?

First off, There are manufactured pigtails that will allow you to plug
your boat into a regular three pronged plug or extension cord -- well
worth having for all sorts of applications.

Secondly, that approach should work fine for anything that's happy
plugged directly into the generator, provided you are powering the
boat only from the generator -- trying to simultaneously match it with
another AC source, like shore power or an inverter, would be asking
for significant problems.

Ryk

portable generator
 

Please help me understand. MyYamaha manual says" be sure to ground (
earth) the generator" and the picture is showing a wire connected to the
generator and the other end is a nail burried to the earth ground. How
to I do that on a boat?
I have a 26 foot Monterey with shore power.I purchased a boat shore
power adapter to regular household plug ( 3 prong) and I was thingking
of pluging that to the generator. I am confuse about grounding of the
generator to the earth ground ( the nailing to ground thing) ????

portable generator
 

Please help me understand. MyYamaha manual says" be sure to ground (
earth) the generator" and the picture is showing a wire connected to the
generator and the other end is a nail burried to the earth ground. How
to I do that on a boat?
I have a 26 foot Monterey with shore power.I purchased a boat shore
power adapter to regular household plug ( 3 prong) and I was thingking
of pluging that to the generator. I am confuse about grounding of the
generator to the earth ground ( the nailing to ground thing) ????

portable generator
 

Every portable generator I have seen has this situation. I have
2 portable generators and never setup the ground as they say.
Just visit a construction site and see haw many generators
are grounded. I've also seen many portable generators on
boats. None have an earth ground. Just plug it in and go.

Doug
s/v Callista

wrote in message
...
Please help me understand. MyYamaha manual says" be sure to ground (
earth) the generator" and the picture is showing a wire connected to the
generator and the other end is a nail burried to the earth ground. How
to I do that on a boat?
I have a 26 foot Monterey with shore power.I purchased a boat shore
power adapter to regular household plug ( 3 prong) and I was thingking
of pluging that to the generator. I am confuse about grounding of the
generator to the earth ground ( the nailing to ground thing) ????

portable generator
 

Every portable generator I have seen has this situation. I have
2 portable generators and never setup the ground as they say.
Just visit a construction site and see haw many generators
are grounded. I've also seen many portable generators on
boats. None have an earth ground. Just plug it in and go.

Doug
s/v Callista

wrote in message
...
Please help me understand. MyYamaha manual says" be sure to ground (
earth) the generator" and the picture is showing a wire connected to the
generator and the other end is a nail burried to the earth ground. How
to I do that on a boat?
I have a 26 foot Monterey with shore power.I purchased a boat shore
power adapter to regular household plug ( 3 prong) and I was thingking
of pluging that to the generator. I am confuse about grounding of the
generator to the earth ground ( the nailing to ground thing) ????

portable generator
 

They should be grounded.

In a typical generator. The user would run a cord to say a power tool. If
the tool shorts out to the case you want the easiest path to ground through
the ground wire back to the generator's GFI. The GFI would sense the short
and open. Without the ground the user may provide the path bypassing the
GFI. The GFI would not sense the short and this could be a shocking
experience.

In a boat with the generator connected as shore power you run through the
boats distribution panel and that panel provides the protection. In the
strictest electrical terms the generator should be grounded and if you want
to do this I would use a zinc "Guppy" overboard. However, if your AC system
is grounded to the boats motor or the through hulls then due to stray
currents I would not ground. Electrolysis may cause damage to the
underwater metal parts of your boat. If the boat's AC system is not
grounded then the "Guppy" is a reasonable approach.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
Every portable generator I have seen has this situation. I have
2 portable generators and never setup the ground as they say.
Just visit a construction site and see haw many generators
are grounded. I've also seen many portable generators on
boats. None have an earth ground. Just plug it in and go.

Doug
s/v Callista

wrote in message
...
Please help me understand. MyYamaha manual says" be sure to ground (
earth) the generator" and the picture is showing a wire connected to the
generator and the other end is a nail burried to the earth ground. How
to I do that on a boat?
I have a 26 foot Monterey with shore power.I purchased a boat shore
power adapter to regular household plug ( 3 prong) and I was thingking
of pluging that to the generator. I am confuse about grounding of the
generator to the earth ground ( the nailing to ground thing) ????

portable generator
 

They should be grounded.

In a typical generator. The user would run a cord to say a power tool. If
the tool shorts out to the case you want the easiest path to ground through
the ground wire back to the generator's GFI. The GFI would sense the short
and open. Without the ground the user may provide the path bypassing the
GFI. The GFI would not sense the short and this could be a shocking
experience.

In a boat with the generator connected as shore power you run through the
boats distribution panel and that panel provides the protection. In the
strictest electrical terms the generator should be grounded and if you want
to do this I would use a zinc "Guppy" overboard. However, if your AC system
is grounded to the boats motor or the through hulls then due to stray
currents I would not ground. Electrolysis may cause damage to the
underwater metal parts of your boat. If the boat's AC system is not
grounded then the "Guppy" is a reasonable approach.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
Every portable generator I have seen has this situation. I have
2 portable generators and never setup the ground as they say.
Just visit a construction site and see haw many generators
are grounded. I've also seen many portable generators on
boats. None have an earth ground. Just plug it in and go.

Doug
s/v Callista

wrote in message
...
Please help me understand. MyYamaha manual says" be sure to ground (
earth) the generator" and the picture is showing a wire connected to the
generator and the other end is a nail burried to the earth ground. How
to I do that on a boat?
I have a 26 foot Monterey with shore power.I purchased a boat shore
power adapter to regular household plug ( 3 prong) and I was thingking
of pluging that to the generator. I am confuse about grounding of the
generator to the earth ground ( the nailing to ground thing) ????

portable generator
 

"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in
:

They should be grounded.

In a typical generator. The user would run a cord to say a power
tool. If the tool shorts out to the case you want the easiest path to
ground through the ground wire back to the generator's GFI. The GFI
would sense the short and open. Without the ground the user may
provide the path bypassing the GFI. The GFI would not sense the short
and this could be a shocking experience.


Huh?? Which generators have GFIs in them? I have a Honda EG5000X, EU1000i
and EU3000is THIS is the one to get!

None of them have GFIs in them.....????? I've never seen a portable
generator with a GFI built into it.

Grounding the generator is the manufacturer's way of covering his ass
against your lawyer's trying to get into his pocket if someone gets shocked
or killed. They told you to ground it. You didn't. The kid died. It's
not their fault, no matter what they did, because YOU can be blamed.

Unless you'll be using some AC appliance while over the side swimming,
there's no reason to ground the genset to the ocean, CREATING SOME INTENSE
CURRENT PATHS FOR THE DAMNED ZINCS TO DISSOLVE, FIZZING AWAY LIKE
ALKASELTZERS. Plugging in the cord ground has grounded all the appliances
that have grounds to the genset.

Now, if you REALLY want to worry about the MOST IMPORTANT PROBLEM of using
that portable generator on your boat....we'll need to change the header of
this thread to an intense discussion of CARBON MONOXIDE POISONING, which is
FAR, FAR more DANGEROUS than any possible shock you could get, aside from
sticking your tongue into the genset's electrical outlets! ANY carbon
monoxide from the genset's engine is HEAVIER THAN AIR and will FILL YOUR
HULL unless you can get it far away from the bathtub you're sleeping in!
No electrical worry can compare to waking up dead from the FUMES!

Larry W4CSC

PS - I got a nice Honda EU1000i 1KW inverter genset (29 pounds) with a pipe
nipple welded to its exhaust so you can plumb the CO gas away from the boat
and family for sale....(c; New carb has 2 hours on it, just tuned and
ready to go by Champion Honda, Charleston, SC. Retail $900, I'll sell for
half that.
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...delName=EU1000

I also have a Honda EG5000X 5KW 120/240VAC commercial genset that sells
around $1800 in perfect condition for $800.
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...delName=EG5000
It's been used for house power backup here in Hurricane Hugo country since
1989 where it just sits in my lawn building....just in case. It has about
70 hours on it and runs perfectly, always stored inside.

I don't need these as I have the new 3KW inverter, super-quiet Honda
EU3000is, the generator you'll all buy if you have any brains.
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...delName=EU3000
http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu3000is.htm
http://www.northwestpowertools.com/g...ors/eu3000.htm

Here's the website of some rock band that uses an EU3000is to power the big
amps at concerts. You can listen to the Honda in the back of the sound
check on this website and read what they think of it:
http://www.funkyfresh.com/toys/revie...generator.html

The EU3000is is mounted on a bracket on the back door of my 1988 retired
Air Force, Union City Body/Chevy stepvan electronics shop. It's powering
TWO 8000 Btu Goldstar Korean air conditioners and my electronic equipment.
With BOTH AC units running, the EU3000is DOESN'T COME OFF LOW SPEED,
cruising along at a mere 1200 RPM where its 3.4 gallon tank will run OVER
two, 8-hour, workdays providing my shop continuous power. It's an amazing
piece of gear. Electric start is kinda overkill, but nice.

The technology of the EU3000is is a high-frequency, 400VAC alternator
that's built INSIDE the flywheel and its big magnets, just like the stator
on an outboard motor except bigger windings and lots of them. The 400VAC
is simply full-wave rectified into high voltage DC, filtered and fed to a
3000 watt solid state inverter controlled by a microcomputer mounted under
the power panel with a massive heat sink. The microcomputer controls the
engine's throttle, opening it only to supply replacement power-on-demand to
the DC power supply feeding the inverter. The output is ROCK SOLID at
130VAC, a very nice-looking synthesized sine wave at EXACTLY 60 Hz, no
matter what speed the engine is running. YOU have two choices, on the
Economy Switch. If you put Econo to ON, the engine runs 1200 RPM up to
about 1800 watts of load, whereby the computer increases RPM to fill the
need for power to its inverter. This is most economical (at 750W load, 3.4
gallons runs TWENTY HOURS!) If you set Econo to OFF, the engine speed is
higher, around 3200 RPM. This uses more fuel BUT the inverter output won't
"blink" if someone suddenly puts on a heavy load, which is better for
computers and sensitive loads. I never run it Econo OFF. Air conditioners
starting hardly make the output blink, and then only for a fraction of a
second. Econo mode runs great! At 1200 RPM, the 6.5 HP Honda OHV engine,
widely used in lawn mowers, pumps, gensets, industrial applications, should
last a VERY long time.

You can't hurt it, either......

The inverter INSTANTLY drops offline into a fault mode if you short it,
vastly overload it or do something else stupid. You must shut down the
engine, correct the problem, then restart to resume operation. This
function is so fast the magnetic breakers on the outlets don't trip! If
you overload the inverter, like putting a 3800 watt load on it (we tried),
the green output LED turns to yellow then red warning you of the overloaded
condition, the engine goes to full throttle and it WILL put out much more
than its rated output for brief periods of times (minutes, not seconds).
Mine kicks the breaker, eventually, in this condition. It's very well
protected. The computer also watches the oil level in the unpressurized
engine. If the sensor detects low oil, the computer simply shuts down the
engine before anything bad can happen to it. Forget to put oil in it? No
problem, it simply won't start and and the bright red LOW OIL LED stays lit
laughing at your stupidity.

By the way, on your way home, stop by Autozone and buy one of those big,
red, rubber battery electrolyte baster bulbs with the long red plastic
nozzle on it. This is the BEST and EASIEST way to change the oil! Baste
out the old oil through the big oil fill hole (no tipping up, no oil
drizzling all over making a mess. Takes about 4 or 5 good squeezes to dry
the sump. Use the same battery bulb to baste IN the new oil, eliminating
any chance to spill oil all over the place....same number of "loads" going
back in. Makes changing oil on it a snap....(c;

The EU3000is makes HALF as much (ear measurement of low speed against high
speed) noise as my EU1000i tiny genset, which is also quiet but runs faster
making higher freq noise. Speaking in a normal tone to someone makes MORE
noise level than a half-loaded-up EU3000is does!

Larry W4CSC
Stop by my mobile shop....it's COOL inside!

portable generator
 

"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in
:

They should be grounded.

In a typical generator. The user would run a cord to say a power
tool. If the tool shorts out to the case you want the easiest path to
ground through the ground wire back to the generator's GFI. The GFI
would sense the short and open. Without the ground the user may
provide the path bypassing the GFI. The GFI would not sense the short
and this could be a shocking experience.


Huh?? Which generators have GFIs in them? I have a Honda EG5000X, EU1000i
and EU3000is THIS is the one to get!

None of them have GFIs in them.....????? I've never seen a portable
generator with a GFI built into it.

Grounding the generator is the manufacturer's way of covering his ass
against your lawyer's trying to get into his pocket if someone gets shocked
or killed. They told you to ground it. You didn't. The kid died. It's
not their fault, no matter what they did, because YOU can be blamed.

Unless you'll be using some AC appliance while over the side swimming,
there's no reason to ground the genset to the ocean, CREATING SOME INTENSE
CURRENT PATHS FOR THE DAMNED ZINCS TO DISSOLVE, FIZZING AWAY LIKE
ALKASELTZERS. Plugging in the cord ground has grounded all the appliances
that have grounds to the genset.

Now, if you REALLY want to worry about the MOST IMPORTANT PROBLEM of using
that portable generator on your boat....we'll need to change the header of
this thread to an intense discussion of CARBON MONOXIDE POISONING, which is
FAR, FAR more DANGEROUS than any possible shock you could get, aside from
sticking your tongue into the genset's electrical outlets! ANY carbon
monoxide from the genset's engine is HEAVIER THAN AIR and will FILL YOUR
HULL unless you can get it far away from the bathtub you're sleeping in!
No electrical worry can compare to waking up dead from the FUMES!

Larry W4CSC

PS - I got a nice Honda EU1000i 1KW inverter genset (29 pounds) with a pipe
nipple welded to its exhaust so you can plumb the CO gas away from the boat
and family for sale....(c; New carb has 2 hours on it, just tuned and
ready to go by Champion Honda, Charleston, SC. Retail $900, I'll sell for
half that.
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...delName=EU1000

I also have a Honda EG5000X 5KW 120/240VAC commercial genset that sells
around $1800 in perfect condition for $800.
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...delName=EG5000
It's been used for house power backup here in Hurricane Hugo country since
1989 where it just sits in my lawn building....just in case. It has about
70 hours on it and runs perfectly, always stored inside.

I don't need these as I have the new 3KW inverter, super-quiet Honda
EU3000is, the generator you'll all buy if you have any brains.
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/M...delName=EU3000
http://www.hayesequipment.com/eu3000is.htm
http://www.northwestpowertools.com/g...ors/eu3000.htm

Here's the website of some rock band that uses an EU3000is to power the big
amps at concerts. You can listen to the Honda in the back of the sound
check on this website and read what they think of it:
http://www.funkyfresh.com/toys/revie...generator.html

The EU3000is is mounted on a bracket on the back door of my 1988 retired
Air Force, Union City Body/Chevy stepvan electronics shop. It's powering
TWO 8000 Btu Goldstar Korean air conditioners and my electronic equipment.
With BOTH AC units running, the EU3000is DOESN'T COME OFF LOW SPEED,
cruising along at a mere 1200 RPM where its 3.4 gallon tank will run OVER
two, 8-hour, workdays providing my shop continuous power. It's an amazing
piece of gear. Electric start is kinda overkill, but nice.

The technology of the EU3000is is a high-frequency, 400VAC alternator
that's built INSIDE the flywheel and its big magnets, just like the stator
on an outboard motor except bigger windings and lots of them. The 400VAC
is simply full-wave rectified into high voltage DC, filtered and fed to a
3000 watt solid state inverter controlled by a microcomputer mounted under
the power panel with a massive heat sink. The microcomputer controls the
engine's throttle, opening it only to supply replacement power-on-demand to
the DC power supply feeding the inverter. The output is ROCK SOLID at
130VAC, a very nice-looking synthesized sine wave at EXACTLY 60 Hz, no
matter what speed the engine is running. YOU have two choices, on the
Economy Switch. If you put Econo to ON, the engine runs 1200 RPM up to
about 1800 watts of load, whereby the computer increases RPM to fill the
need for power to its inverter. This is most economical (at 750W load, 3.4
gallons runs TWENTY HOURS!) If you set Econo to OFF, the engine speed is
higher, around 3200 RPM. This uses more fuel BUT the inverter output won't
"blink" if someone suddenly puts on a heavy load, which is better for
computers and sensitive loads. I never run it Econo OFF. Air conditioners
starting hardly make the output blink, and then only for a fraction of a
second. Econo mode runs great! At 1200 RPM, the 6.5 HP Honda OHV engine,
widely used in lawn mowers, pumps, gensets, industrial applications, should
last a VERY long time.

You can't hurt it, either......

The inverter INSTANTLY drops offline into a fault mode if you short it,
vastly overload it or do something else stupid. You must shut down the
engine, correct the problem, then restart to resume operation. This
function is so fast the magnetic breakers on the outlets don't trip! If
you overload the inverter, like putting a 3800 watt load on it (we tried),
the green output LED turns to yellow then red warning you of the overloaded
condition, the engine goes to full throttle and it WILL put out much more
than its rated output for brief periods of times (minutes, not seconds).
Mine kicks the breaker, eventually, in this condition. It's very well
protected. The computer also watches the oil level in the unpressurized
engine. If the sensor detects low oil, the computer simply shuts down the
engine before anything bad can happen to it. Forget to put oil in it? No
problem, it simply won't start and and the bright red LOW OIL LED stays lit
laughing at your stupidity.

By the way, on your way home, stop by Autozone and buy one of those big,
red, rubber battery electrolyte baster bulbs with the long red plastic
nozzle on it. This is the BEST and EASIEST way to change the oil! Baste
out the old oil through the big oil fill hole (no tipping up, no oil
drizzling all over making a mess. Takes about 4 or 5 good squeezes to dry
the sump. Use the same battery bulb to baste IN the new oil, eliminating
any chance to spill oil all over the place....same number of "loads" going
back in. Makes changing oil on it a snap....(c;

The EU3000is makes HALF as much (ear measurement of low speed against high
speed) noise as my EU1000i tiny genset, which is also quiet but runs faster
making higher freq noise. Speaking in a normal tone to someone makes MORE
noise level than a half-loaded-up EU3000is does!

Larry W4CSC
Stop by my mobile shop....it's COOL inside!

portable generator
 

I've had 5 generators over the past years. Still have 2 of them.
None have built-in GFCIs. The genset I have on my boat does
not even have a provision for an earth ground. The manual
does mention that an option is to connect neutral to ground but
I believe that may be in violation of ABYC guidelines.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Rick & Linda Bernard" wrote in message
...
They should be grounded.

In a typical generator. The user would run a cord to say a power tool.
If
the tool shorts out to the case you want the easiest path to ground
through
the ground wire back to the generator's GFI. The GFI would sense the
short
and open. Without the ground the user may provide the path bypassing the
GFI. The GFI would not sense the short and this could be a shocking
experience.

In a boat with the generator connected as shore power you run through the
boats distribution panel and that panel provides the protection. In the
strictest electrical terms the generator should be grounded and if you
want
to do this I would use a zinc "Guppy" overboard. However, if your AC
system
is grounded to the boats motor or the through hulls then due to stray
currents I would not ground. Electrolysis may cause damage to the
underwater metal parts of your boat. If the boat's AC system is not
grounded then the "Guppy" is a reasonable approach.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
Every portable generator I have seen has this situation. I have
2 portable generators and never setup the ground as they say.
Just visit a construction site and see haw many generators
are grounded. I've also seen many portable generators on
boats. None have an earth ground. Just plug it in and go.

Doug
s/v Callista

wrote in message
...
Please help me understand. MyYamaha manual says" be sure to ground (
earth) the generator" and the picture is showing a wire connected to
the
generator and the other end is a nail burried to the earth ground.
How
to I do that on a boat?
I have a 26 foot Monterey with shore power.I purchased a boat shore
power adapter to regular household plug ( 3 prong) and I was thingking
of pluging that to the generator. I am confuse about grounding of the
generator to the earth ground ( the nailing to ground thing) ????