KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

I"ve got a good engine,, but it is gas.

Have thought about going the diesel route..

Since the fall is just starting :: where would/should I start looking for
a
good 20hp diesel for a sailboat? Would like to find a good used one,,
but it not used .. where is the best new dealer place?

Seems like everyone I know has a Yanmar.

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:10:53 GMT, "Thomas, Spring Point Light"
wrote:

I"ve got a good engine,, but it is gas.

Have thought about going the diesel route..

Since the fall is just starting :: where would/should I start looking for
a
good 20hp diesel for a sailboat? Would like to find a good used one,,
but it not used .. where is the best new dealer place?

Seems like everyone I know has a Yanmar.



I assume you have an Atomic 4? If it's running well I'd leave it
alone. You will never find a more reliable, easy to work on engine.

A new Yanmar, dealer installed, will probably be more than $10K. Mack
Boring is one of their main distributors in the North East but any
good diesel mechanic in your area should know how to get one. Used
prices are all over the place but you have to be suspicious about
condition. Unless the boat has been totaled (without sinking), why
would anyone get rid of a good running diesel?

One possible used source is a generator shop. People sometimes
replace generators for reasons other than a worn out engine. You will
have to locate a matching transmission, control panel, engine mounts,
etc. Unless you can get it close to free, probably more trouble than
it's worth.

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

On 2008-08-24 09:10:53 -0400, "Thomas, Spring Point Light"
said:

I"ve got a good engine,, but it is gas.

Have thought about going the diesel route..

Since the fall is just starting :: where would/shæould I start
looking for a good 20hp diesel for a sailboat? Would like to find a
good used one,, but it not used .. where is the best new dealer place?

Seems like everyone I know has a Yanmar.

We repowered with a Yanmar and couldn't be happier 16 seasons later.

BUT, if I were to do it again, I'd upgrade a working gas engine or
switch to a rebuilt drop-in diesel, as the Yanmar, professionally
installed, would cost somewhat upwards of $15k these days.

IF you can justify the cost over your expected use of the boat, I'd go
for a modern diesel, but expect to replace everything from the
batteries and cables to the exhaust.

If you want to improve an existing engine, perhaps the best investment
is a new prop. The new ones are considerably better than those of 20-30
years ago. CDI's composite props are SWEET!

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

"Gogarty" wrote in message
...
Friend of ours had an Atomic 4 in a Triton yawl. Even had a Monel fuel
tank. However, the engine kepy giving all kinds of problems, mostly
leaking gasoline, even though he swapped out his original engine for a
newer used one from another boat. (That owner planned the Pardee thing --
cruising without an engine.) Eventually my friend bought a Yanmar at a
boat show for a show-special $5,000 and installed it himself over a
winter. Gave away the Atomic 4. That boat has been to the Canaries and
back and is still going strong.

==

Gogarty,, I have had excellent luck with my AT4. This is the third one
I've owned.
But::: As anyone who has ever sailed onboard a boat with an AT4 can
attest, things
can go wrong. Mostly, electric. The AT4 being a gas engine, has spark
plugs,
dist cap, ... etc. That stuff does not like moisture. The other big issue
which is new to
us gas engine owners, is the gasoline.. ethanol .. situation. This spring I
pumped out
my tank, the eth made the gas dirty, or at least helped it become dirty.
What a pain.
I had to pump out the gas, change the fuel pump, on and on...

Another reason for looking at a Yanmar, is the simplicity of operation and
the fact that there
are so many of them out there. The boatyard where I store? Almost every
sailboat there
has a Yanmar diesel.

So... I will start the lets see what's out there period.

I did find a place out at the Great Lakes,, the guy rebuilds diesels for
sailboats.
He has a bunch of Universals diesels.

Who knows... I haven't really finished this season yet.

Thanks for the input.

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:10:52 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

Friend of ours had an Atomic 4 in a Triton yawl. Even had a Monel fuel
tank. However, the engine kepy giving all kinds of problems, mostly
leaking gasoline, even though he swapped out his original engine for a
newer used one from another boat. (That owner planned the Pardee thing --
cruising without an engine.) Eventually my friend bought a Yanmar at a
boat show for a show-special $5,000 and installed it himself over a
winter. Gave away the Atomic 4. That boat has been to the Canaries and
back and is still going strong.

When I was in the USAF at Charleston, I met a guy at the marina. He
had a wooden ex Channel pilot boat. He had crossed the Atlantic,
single handed, to get his hands on a used Atomic Four for free.

Casady

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

"Gogarty" wrote in message
...
Friend of ours had an Atomic 4 in a Triton yawl. Even had a Monel fuel
tank. However, the engine kepy giving all kinds of problems, mostly
leaking gasoline, even though he swapped out his original engine for a
newer used one from another boat. (That owner planned the Pardee thing --
cruising without an engine.) Eventually my friend bought a Yanmar at a
boat show for a show-special $5,000 and installed it himself over a
winter. Gave away the Atomic 4. That boat has been to the Canaries and
back and is still going strong.


That is good because Yanmar spares are very expensive.

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:56:45 GMT, "Thomas, Spring Point Light"
wrote:

As anyone who has ever sailed onboard a boat with an AT4 can
attest, things
can go wrong. Mostly, electric. The AT4 being a gas engine, has spark
plugs,
dist cap, ... etc. That stuff does not like moisture.

All true but they are inexpensive and easy to replace. Nothing on a
diesel is inexpensive or easy to replace once you get past the fuel
filter and raw water impeller.

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:22:17 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:56:45 GMT, "Thomas, Spring Point Light"
wrote:

As anyone who has ever sailed onboard a boat with an AT4 can
attest, things
can go wrong. Mostly, electric. The AT4 being a gas engine, has spark
plugs,
dist cap, ... etc. That stuff does not like moisture.

All true but they are inexpensive and easy to replace. Nothing on a
diesel is inexpensive or easy to replace once you get past the fuel
filter and raw water impeller.


Wonder if that will soon change. Seems to me there's really nothing
special about manufacturing diesels over gas engines. Sure, they're
different, but the big cost difference doesn't make sense except in
terms of volume reducing costs maybe, and lack of competition.
I guess the demand side is just too low now.
Larry picked up a pretty cheap Chinese genset, but air-cooled.
I thought Europe had a lot of diesel cars, and I wonder what the price
premium over a gas engine if for those.
Those Yanmar prices just seem out of whack.

--Vic

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

Vic Smith wrote in
:

Those Yanmar prices just seem out of whack.



If stupid Yanmar weren't so greedy in the USA, we'd be driving around with
YANMAR diesel OUTBOARDS. But, alas, even people with money balk when you
want $12K for 27hp....how stupid.

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:52:23 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Wonder if that will soon change. Seems to me there's really nothing
special about manufacturing diesels over gas engines.

Actually I don't believe that is entirely correct. For one, the
injection systems are built to very high degree of precision. Also
the compression ratio is much higher which requires much beefier
engineering of bearings, cranks, head gaskets, etc.

You might recall that General Motors tried to build diesel cars like
automotive engines back in the early 80s. They were a disaster.

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:09:30 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:52:23 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Wonder if that will soon change. Seems to me there's really nothing
special about manufacturing diesels over gas engines.

Actually I don't believe that is entirely correct. For one, the
injection systems are built to very high degree of precision. Also
the compression ratio is much higher which requires much beefier
engineering of bearings, cranks, head gaskets, etc.

You might recall that General Motors tried to build diesel cars like
automotive engines back in the early 80s. They were a disaster.

Yeah, I know all that, but besides the beef there's not much
difference. That GM "diesel" was just a converted 350 cid
as I recall. Think they threw them in Oldsmobiles.
Pretty laughable for GM to attempt that.
No question diesels have to be engineered from the ground up.
Well, I looked around for the "diesel premium" and quickly
found this:
"The fact that all of the volume truck makers are getting into this
game means that there will be strong price competition which will help
bring the premium down over time. When I look at family car prices in
Europe it looks like the premium for a diesel over a similar sized
gasoline engine is similar to the premium for an automatic
transmission instead of a manual, around ?1000. Don?t make the mistake
of simply using currency conversions to say what that means in $US,
because that isn?t how the real consumer market works. A Mondeo starts
at about ?17,245 in the UK. The similar sized Fusion starts at
$17,770.
I expect that once the market stabilizes we will see a diesel premium
in the US of around $1000. It may take several years for supply,
demand and competition balances to work out and get there. Higher
volumes mean lower production costs. GM and Ford are both bringing
their next generation diesel development and manufacturing in house,
which if they do it right should result in lower costs than buying
from Isuzu and Navistar."

Here's another with similar numbers:
"James Healey: Mercedes-Benz holds its diesel premium to $1,000 vs.
similar gasoline models. VW's sold diesel for as little as
$400-something more than gasoline, but its new line will be
$2,000-plus higher than the gasoline versions."

Since these support what I initially said, no sense looking further
(-:
Anyway, I'm not interested enough now to study deeper.
And I know the boat and car markets are different, marine engines are
cooled differently, etc.
Just thought the Yanmar prices are out of whack. Crazy.

--Vic

KInda a maybe question .. new diesel ??
 

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:01:29 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Just thought the Yanmar prices are out of whack. Crazy.

They probably are very profitable, no question about that. They seem
to have a tight lock on the small marine diesel market and no amount
of development in the automotive or trucking industry will change
that.

I also suspect that it's not a very large market compared to other
applications like generators, pumps, tractors, etc. I have a 20 kw
genset on my trawler which contains a marinized Yanmar 35 hp
industrial engine. The whole thing with fresh water cooling,
generator head, automated control systems, digital alarm panel, sound
shield, cost about $12K plus installation.