On Aug 20, 4:38*am, "Skip Gundlach" wrote:

We have charts, and you know it. We have paper charts, we have chart
kits, and both Cap'n and MaxSea (along with the complete selection
from Maine to Venezuela and into the canal, as well as NOAA's entire
catalog) electronically in addition to our chartplotter. *We have a
cubic yard, dammit, of charts, which is interesting to store. *I also
have a RDF and a handheld bearing compass, just because, in addition
to all those lovely charting tools (that we know how to use). *No, we
don't own, nor do we anticipate ever having, a sextant...

Skip


ARRGG !
Skip

A couple thoughs....

First, ADF very interesting. Old school and very useful still for near
coast work. I support the use of ADF.

Second, RE currents. Both Wilbur and Wayne B are correct. I would like
to add combined with the reference materials you have(books n charts)
will give you a good idea of tyical MEAN currents. Now ya need to take
your INTENDED course compared to your ACTUAL course and the diffrence
most likly will be the CURRENT ya ya drift n lee way too but...

If ya get real fancy take a WATER TEMP reading and that can tell ya
what CURRENT diagnoses too. Does your depth sounder transducer have
water temp??


Reading you post a second time Skip It seems like you got a HUGE
amount of INFORMATION input. I recomend getting back to the basics.
Keep it simple. Dont over whelm yourself with info sorces. Its pretty
simple If ya wanted to got to spot A and ended up in spot C the stuff
that made ya drift off course is mostlikly a current.

On a last note, since you are licensed OUPV I assume you were required
tolift your had and take the USCG Oath. Part of the Oath was to OBEY
THE ORDERS OF YOUR SUPERIOR OFFICERS.....


Well since I have a 50 grt NC license does that mean you got to do
what I say **** just wait till I get my 90 days approp recency
tonnage in a few months and get the 100 ton. Then Ill really be an
asshole...... ya think Ill start sounding just like that kno it all
on the ill fated Red Clown.....?

Argg !

Have fun Skip and remember................. keep it simple !
Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
...
snipped a bunch of good stuff
Well since I have a 50 grt NC license does that mean you got to do
what I say **** just wait till I get my 90 days approp recency
tonnage in a few months and get the 100 ton. Then Ill really be an
asshole...... ya think Ill start sounding just like that kno it all
on the ill fated Red Clown.....?


If you start sounding like the Red Clown, know-it-all,
yellow-stripe-up-his-back blowhard, who has proven he just doesn't have what
it takes, you'll have to learn how to make realistic fart sounds on command.
It's called blowin' in the wind. Bwaahahahhahahahahhhhahah!

Even Skippy is a better sailor than Joe. At least he hasn't abandoned his
boat (yet) for no valid reason. A fake sprained ankle and lots whining, fear
and trepidation because of borderline gale force winds and smallish waves of
ten to fifteen feet does not a valid reason make. Such things are mere
routine sailing conditions to us real and experienced sailors. But, then
again, real and experienced sailors don't chose weak and inept females as
working crew on a commercial venture.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Aug 21, 11:44*am, "Wilbur Hubbard" AKA town Clown Neal
wrote:


Such things are mere
routine sailing conditions to us real and experienced sailors. But, then
again, real and experienced sailors don't chose weak and inept females as
working crew on a commercial venture.

Wilbur Hubbard

Quick Question?
How would you know anything about real sailing and commerical
ventures?
IIRC you had a useless 10gt near coastal and never made a dime with
it. If I'm wrong correct me.

I think that its typical of your total sea experience. You can make a
near perfect score on a book test but you have never been anywhere
sailing.

Also IIRC that poor female has a 100 ton oceans and has earned a
living with it.
How many commerical boats have you operated Neal? None.

I think it's funny as hell the way Joe and Skip and Zac intimidate
you so.

And Neal, you're such a know-it-all please explain what happened to
these boats
http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_casualties.php

It's a couple hundred the last few mo, but since you can explain so
much about Joes boat and crew you can tells us all about these
people.

I think Dale had you in mind Neal when talking about the sure thing
boat. "The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is
willing to do and dare. The sure-thing boat never gets far from
shore."


Fred

wrote in message
...

Quick Question?
How would you know anything about real sailing and commerical
ventures?
IIRC you had a useless 10gt near coastal and never made a dime with
it. If I'm wrong correct me.

You're wrong - consider yourself corrected.

I think that its typical of your total sea experience. You can make a
near perfect score on a book test but you have never been anywhere
sailing.

You're wrong again - consider yourself corrected again.

Also IIRC that poor female has a 100 ton oceans and has earned a
living with it.

Sounds to me like she makes a living faking sprained ankles because she
can't take a few 10-15 foot seas. Sounds to me she knows how to make a wimp
out of her husband. She's got him right where she want's him - wrapped right
around her finger. Yes, it's called being pussy-whipped, Joe!

How many commerical boats have you operated Wilbur? None.

Wrong again - consider yourself corrected for the third time . . .

I think it's funny as hell the way me and Skip and Zac intimidate
you so.

Intimidate? Bwaaaaaahahahhahahahahhhahahahhah! I guess a sure sign of
intimidation in your book is when somebody laughs their ass off at you? And,
at any other so-called sailors who put the bragging first and the successful
voyage as an afterthought.

And Wilbur, you're such a know-it-all please explain what happened to
these boats http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_casualties.php

It's a couple hundred the last few mo, but since you can explain so
much about the prematurely abandoned Red Cloud and her inept
crew you can tells us all about these people.

That's right, Joe, go ahead and try to make yourself feel better by citing
plenty of examples of failure. But, you know in your heart that no matter
how many other so-called sailors fail it doesn't make your own failure
acceptable. That dog don't hunt, boy!

I think Dale had you in mind Wilbur when talking about the sure thing
boat. "The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is
willing to do and dare. The sure-thing boat never gets far from
shore."

Sorry but since these admonitions come from somebody whose boat is now
laying somewhere on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexica a couple hundred miles
offshore after being ill-advisedly and prematurely abandoned because of a
case of cold feet and an amateur rescue mentality attitude, I just have to
enquire, "Where's the beef?"

If you really wish to redeem yourself after your humiliating failure
compounded by all your beforehand bragging you have but one choice. That is
just shut your pie hole next time you attempt such a thing. Don't say a word
about it until and unless you get the job done next time you try. I, Wilbur
Hubbard, don't expect there will never be a foundering and I know full well
that an occasional foundering may well be due to an 'act of God' but I never
will accept a foundering because of crew ignorance, inexperience and fear
which is the only reason Red Cloud foundered. The state of the wind and sea
were nothing exceptional and the conditions were such that any real seaman
would have taken them in stride.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Aug 22, 12:09*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

Quick Question?
How would you know anything about real sailing and commerical
ventures?
*IIRC you had a useless 10gt near coastal and never made a dime with
it. If I'm wrong correct me.

You're wrong - consider yourself corrected.

I think that its typical of your total sea experience. You can make a
near perfect score on a book test but you have never been anywhere
sailing.

You're wrong again - consider yourself corrected again.

Also IIRC that poor female has a 100 ton oceans and has earned a
living with it.

Sounds to me like she makes a living faking sprained ankles because she
can't take a few 10-15 foot seas. Sounds to me she knows how to make a wimp
out of her husband. She's got him right where she want's him - wrapped right
around her finger. Yes, it's called being pussy-whipped, Joe!

How many commerical boats have you operated Wilbur? *None.

Wrong again - consider yourself corrected for the third time . . .

*I think it's funny as hell the way me and Skip and Zac intimidate
you so.

Intimidate? Bwaaaaaahahahhahahahahhhahahahhah! I guess a sure sign of
intimidation in your book is when somebody laughs their ass off at you? And,
at any other so-called sailors who put the bragging first and the successful
voyage as an afterthought.

And Wilbur, you're such a know-it-all please explain what happened to
these boats *http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_casualties.php

It's a couple hundred the last few mo, but since you can explain so
much about the prematurely abandoned Red Cloud and her inept
crew you can tells us all about these people.

That's right, Joe, go ahead and try to make yourself feel better by citing
plenty of examples of failure. But, you know in your heart that no matter
how many other so-called sailors fail it doesn't make your own failure
acceptable. That dog don't hunt, boy!

I think Dale had you in mind Wilbur when talking about the sure thing
boat. "The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is
willing to do and dare. The sure-thing boat never gets far from
shore."

Sorry but since these admonitions come from somebody whose boat is now
laying somewhere on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexica a couple hundred miles
offshore after being ill-advisedly and prematurely abandoned because of a
case of cold feet and an amateur rescue mentality attitude, I just have to
enquire, "Where's the beef?"

If you really wish to redeem yourself after your humiliating failure
compounded by all your beforehand bragging you have but one choice. That is
just shut your pie hole next time you attempt such a thing. Don't say a word
about it until and unless you get the job done next time you try. I, Wilbur
Hubbard, don't expect there will never be a foundering and I know full well
that an occasional foundering may well be due to an 'act of God' but I never
will accept a foundering because of crew ignorance, inexperience and fear
which is the only reason Red Cloud foundered. The state of the wind and sea
were nothing exceptional and the conditions were such that any real seaman
would have taken them in stride.

Wilbur Hubbard

Gee Nealbur, could you please cite one example of Joe "bragging"
perhaps you mistake working on boats as bragging? Not sure where you
got that, I looked and could not find it.

Again you're a liar as usual. You know you have never used your
licences for anything other than wall paper.
Care to provide proof? Naaaa just dream up another lie, say that
beneth you or something, we all know you are a failure at anything to
do with sailing.

Your boat is a perfect example of your failing to do well at
anything. No one in his right mind would live on such a small little
cheap flimsy boat with a broken boom and **** bucket for a head unless
thats the best they could do.

Fred

wrote in message
...
snipped a bunch

Gee Wilbur, could you please cite one example of Joe "bragging"
perhaps you mistake working on boats as bragging? Not sure where you
got that, I looked and could not find it.

I guess you don't remember the boasting about running a OSV to the rigs and
all the rough weather your were required to slog through all the time
delivering supplies? Though you tried to act like you were the captain it
was evident you were just a lowly deck hand.



Again you're a liar as usual. You know you have never used your
licences for anything other than wall paper.
Care to provide proof? Naaaa just dream up another lie, say that
beneth you or something, we all know you are a failure at anything to
do with sailing.

Moi? A liar? Perish the thought! It's just that my personal boat work
history is nobody's business but my own or potential employer's which there
will be no more of since I have officially retired having made my fortune.

Never had a sinking. Never had an abandonment. Never abided a weak crew.
Never failed to complete a voyage. Never felt the need to share all the
mundane details. Unlike the majority of those these days who call themselves
sailors, I don't require an audience. Sailing is the means and the end, the
alpha and the omega and all you wannabes be damned!

You're no sailor until you understand this.

Tonnage??? Pahteuy! Means nothing if you can't even reach your destination
without foundering. A 10 GT captain who makes a successful passage is 100
times the sailor as the 1000 GT captain who fails to complete the voyage and
founders.


Your boat is a perfect example of your failing to do well at
anything. No one in his right mind would live on such a small little
cheap flimsy boat with a broken boom and **** bucket for a head unless
thats the best they could do.

You must be thinking about the world famous Capt. Neal. He was a fictional
character. I am Wilbur Hubbard and I sail an Allied Seawind 32 ketch.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:41:41 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
snipped a bunch

Gee Wilbur, could you please cite one example of Joe "bragging"
perhaps you mistake working on boats as bragging? Not sure where you
got that, I looked and could not find it.

I guess you don't remember the boasting about running a OSV to the rigs and
all the rough weather your were required to slog through all the time
delivering supplies? Though you tried to act like you were the captain it
was evident you were just a lowly deck hand.



Again you're a liar as usual. You know you have never used your
licences for anything other than wall paper.
Care to provide proof? Naaaa just dream up another lie, say that
beneth you or something, we all know you are a failure at anything to
do with sailing.

Moi? A liar? Perish the thought! It's just that my personal boat work
history is nobody's business but my own or potential employer's which there
will be no more of since I have officially retired having made my fortune.

Never had a sinking. Never had an abandonment. Never abided a weak crew.
Never failed to complete a voyage. Never felt the need to share all the
mundane details. Unlike the majority of those these days who call themselves
sailors, I don't require an audience. Sailing is the means and the end, the
alpha and the omega and all you wannabes be damned!

You're no sailor until you understand this.

Tonnage??? Pahteuy! Means nothing if you can't even reach your destination
without foundering. A 10 GT captain who makes a successful passage is 100
times the sailor as the 1000 GT captain who fails to complete the voyage and
founders.


Your boat is a perfect example of your failing to do well at
anything. No one in his right mind would live on such a small little
cheap flimsy boat with a broken boom and **** bucket for a head unless
thats the best they could do.

You must be thinking about the world famous Capt. Neal. He was a fictional
character. I am Wilbur Hubbard and I sail an Allied Seawind 32 ketch.

Wilbur Hubbard


Kind of like the guy bragging about his two circumnavigatins on hi 68
foot boat, isn't it? ****head!

bob

Dear Fred:
Your reference to 100 ton Oceans license caught my eye. Under the
current uscg license structure there is no such thing as an OCEANS 100
grt license. Once ya go beyond 200 miles you are now must compy to
STCW-95, an international agreement the US has signed. Stcw-95 DOES
NOT reconize anything smaller than 200 GRT (500 ITC)

Now for your hot gf to have worked 100 ton oceans she will also need
Officer INcharge of a Navigation Watch (OICNW) which means about
$15,000-$20,000 and 5 months of classes. So......... two things come
to mind: 1) youre talking about somthing that happened 25+ years ago
or 2) youre full of ****.

Which is it?


Next try this link for 100 grt ALL ROUTES check list.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/master_100.pdf

Notice it does not mention OCEANS...............
Bob



http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/ldcr_deckreq.asp

On Aug 22, 12:38*pm, Bob wrote:
Dear Fred:
Your reference to 100 ton Oceans license caught my eye. Under the
current uscg license structure there is no such thing as an OCEANS 100
grt license. Once ya go beyond 200 miles you are now must compy to
STCW-95, an international agreement the US has signed. Stcw-95 DOES
NOT reconize anything smaller than 200 GRT (500 ITC)

Now for your hot gf to have worked 100 ton oceans she will also need
Officer INcharge of a Navigation Watch (OICNW) which means about
$15,000-$20,000 and 5 months of classes. So......... two things come
to mind: 1) youre talking about somthing that happened 25+ years ago
or 2) youre full of ****.

Which is it?

Next try this link for 100 grt ALL ROUTES check list.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/master_100.pdf

Notice it does not mention OCEANS...............
Bob

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/ldcr_deckreq.asp

Uhh Bob,

She's not my GF. I saw a picture of her 100 ton a few years ago when
Neal said she did not ever have one, and Joe's 1600 ton freight and
towing ticket.

The point is Bob , nealbur said he was a know-it-all as far as
commerical ventures and sailing when he is neither. **** his useless
10Gt is almost as useless as a 50+ yo getting a lifeboat endorsement,
as both most likely will never be used.

If Neal had been anything of a success in commerical ventures or as a
Captain he would not be eeking out an existance on a **** yellow day
sailor with a bucket for a head. That simple.

Have you gotten a job on a boat yet Bob? Are you following that noble
dream to scrub the ****ters?

Fred