An obvious case of injustice.
 

Richard Casady wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:20:42 -0000, Justin C
wrote:

what
sort of parents name their child Bismark?!

Justin.

Battleship builders? Admirers of the "Iron Chancellor?"

No, just the one battleship, pride of the German navy, which was
sunk by the British during WWII.

There were actually two battleships. Bismarck's sister ship Tirpitz
was sunk by bombing in Norway.

Casady

You've forgotten Scharnhorst and Graf Spee, also the Gneisenau. The
destruction of these 5 ships, plus the Hood, Prince of Wales and Repulse,
changed the whole concept of naval warfare. The string-and-fabric biplane
aircraft which sank the Bismarck ended the myth of the big battleship
forever.

Dennis.

An obvious case of injustice.
 

"Dennis Pogson" wrote in message
...
Richard Casady wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:20:42 -0000, Justin C
wrote:

what
sort of parents name their child Bismark?!

Justin.

Battleship builders? Admirers of the "Iron Chancellor?"

No, just the one battleship, pride of the German navy, which was
sunk by the British during WWII.

There were actually two battleships. Bismarck's sister ship Tirpitz
was sunk by bombing in Norway.

Casady

You've forgotten Scharnhorst and Graf Spee, also the Gneisenau. The
destruction of these 5 ships, plus the Hood, Prince of Wales and Repulse,
changed the whole concept of naval warfare. The string-and-fabric biplane
aircraft which sank the Bismarck ended the myth of the big battleship
forever.

Dennis.


The Bismarck was not sunk by aerial launched torpedoes. She was sunk out in
the Atlantic ocean by attacks from a number of British surface ships after a
torpedo fired by one of them (The cruiser HMS Norfolk I think) jammed her
rudder so that she could only steam in circles while they all had a go at
her.

The'string and fabric' torpedo carrying aircraft, the Fairey Barracuda,
carried out an attack on the Scharnhorst and Gniesnau when they were trying
to steam up the English channel and it was decided that at all costs an
effort to stop them must be made. Most of the attacking planes were shot
down by concentrated AA fire from the heavily armed ships and their escorts.
The Barracudas were limited to flying straight and low at about 80/90 knots
when coming in to drop their torpedoes and so were sitting targets for the
Germans.
The brave young men who flew those slow planes into such concentrated fire
knew already in the briefing room that they had just been handed their death
warrants, yet they went out and carried out their orders and most of them
did indeed die. Such courage.

An obvious case of injustice.
 

Edgar wrote:
"Dennis Pogson" wrote in message
...
Richard Casady wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:20:42 -0000, Justin C
wrote:

what
sort of parents name their child Bismark?!

Justin.

Battleship builders? Admirers of the "Iron Chancellor?"
No, just the one battleship, pride of the German navy, which was
sunk by the British during WWII.
There were actually two battleships. Bismarck's sister ship Tirpitz
was sunk by bombing in Norway.

Casady
You've forgotten Scharnhorst and Graf Spee, also the Gneisenau. The
destruction of these 5 ships, plus the Hood, Prince of Wales and Repulse,
changed the whole concept of naval warfare. The string-and-fabric biplane
aircraft which sank the Bismarck ended the myth of the big battleship
forever.

Dennis.


The Bismarck was not sunk by aerial launched torpedoes. She was sunk out in
the Atlantic ocean by attacks from a number of British surface ships after a
torpedo fired by one of them (The cruiser HMS Norfolk I think) jammed her
rudder so that she could only steam in circles while they all had a go at
her.

The'string and fabric' torpedo carrying aircraft, the Fairey Barracuda,
carried out an attack on the Scharnhorst and Gniesnau when they were trying
to steam up the English channel and it was decided that at all costs an
effort to stop them must be made. Most of the attacking planes were shot
down by concentrated AA fire from the heavily armed ships and their escorts.
The Barracudas were limited to flying straight and low at about 80/90 knots
when coming in to drop their torpedoes and so were sitting targets for the
Germans.
The brave young men who flew those slow planes into such concentrated fire
knew already in the briefing room that they had just been handed their death
warrants, yet they went out and carried out their orders and most of them
did indeed die. Such courage.


While they did not sink the Bismark, "The 'string and fabric' torpedo
carrying aircraft," were the one that actually disabled the Bismark. As
the Bismark circle trying to repair the rudder the surface ship closed
in and sank her.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq118-2.htm

At 1030 on the 26th a Catalina of the Coastal Command sighted the
Bismarck about 550 miles west of Land s End. The King George V, Rodney,
and Renown were now converging on the Bay of Biscay. Reconnaissance
planes from the Ark Royal took up the watch on the Bismarck, At 1500 an
air striking force was dispatched from the Ark Royal, but its attack was
ineffectual. The second and decisive attack was made by 15 Swordfish,
armed with torpedoes, and lasted from 2055 to 2125,

The 400 men assigned to the Bismarck's anti-aircraft guns maintained a
furious barrage, but the crews, which had been on watch almost
continuously for 5 days, were near exhaustion and their fire was not as
effective as previously. The planes attacked simultaneously from a
number of points, diving to the attack at an angle of about 50 .

One torpedo struck amidships on the port side, one on the starboard
quarter, and possibly a third on the port quarter; The torpedo which hit
the starboard quarter wrecked the steering gear, jamming the rudders and
causing the Bismarck to turn slowly in circles to the starboard. Frantic
efforts were made to repair the damage: It was announced that the man
who succeeded in freeing the rudders would be given the Knight Insignia
of the Iron Cross. Divers succeeded in centering one rudder, but the
other could not be freed, Efforts were made to steer the ship by her
engines, but after a short period, instead of proceeding on her intended
southeasterly course, the Bismarck was actually northwest of her
position when the attack was made. There appears to have been further
controversy among the officers. The captain, when asked by an officer
whether he should try to blow off the jammed rudder, is reported to have
replied, "Do what you like; I am through with it." The ship's best speed
was now reduced to 10 to 12 knots.

An obvious case of injustice.
 

The Bismarck was not sunk by aerial launched torpedoes. She was sunk out
in the Atlantic ocean by attacks from a number of British surface ships
after a torpedo fired by one of them (The cruiser HMS Norfolk I think)
jammed her rudder so that she could only steam in circles while they all
had a go at her.

Actually the steering compartment was hit by Fairey Swordfish aircraft from
the Arc Royal. The same string and fabric biplanes that were shot down in
the channel dash. She was finished off by the Rodney and the King George V
with an assist from the Norfolk and the Dorsetshire.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com

An obvious case of injustice.
 

And in the meantime, while we re-wing WW-II,
and innocent skipper is in jeopardy.

Has anyone here put up even a small donation to his defense?

An obvious case of injustice.
 

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:13:07 +0100, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote:


You've forgotten Scharnhorst and Graf Spee, also the Gneisenau.

Not exactly battleships. S&G have been called battle cruisers, but
with 11 inch guns they are hardly battleships. Graf Spey was a
cruiser. Only the turrets had enough armor to stop a six inch. The
Spee was the size of the eight inch gunned Prinz Eugen. Somewhat
larger than a treaty cruiser. Germany didn't sign that particular
treaty. The 11 inch shells were almost exactly one third as heavy as a
16 inch shell.

Casady

An obvious case of injustice.
 

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:18:45 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

The'string and fabric' torpedo carrying aircraft, the Fairey Barracuda,
carried out an attack on the Scharnhorst and Gniesnau when they were trying

I believe Swordfish did the dastardly deed.

Casady

An obvious case of injustice.
 

In article , cavelamb himself wrote:
And in the meantime, while we re-wing WW-II,
and innocent skipper is in jeopardy.

Has anyone here put up even a small donation to his defense?

I've only found one reference to this online, and I don't have much
faith in the details given. I'd be prepared to donate something if I
could be sure the destination was legitimate.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

An obvious case of injustice.
 

Justin C wrote:
In article , cavelamb himself wrote:
And in the meantime, while we re-wing WW-II,
and innocent skipper is in jeopardy.

Has anyone here put up even a small donation to his defense?

I've only found one reference to this online, and I don't have much
faith in the details given. I'd be prepared to donate something if I
could be sure the destination was legitimate.

Justin.

From Latitude 38, which has been reporting on this extensively:

"If you'd like to help a fellow sailor, you can donate to Dinius'
defense fund by sending checks made out to Bismarck Dinius, writing
“Bismarck Dinius Defense Fund” in the memo section, to Sierra Central
Credit Union, Attn: Brian Foxworthy, Branch Manager, 306 N. Sunrise
Ave., Roseville, CA 95661."
(http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/...5-23&dayid=117)

--Alan Gomes

An obvious case of injustice.
 

In article , Alan Gomes wrote:
Justin C wrote:
In article , cavelamb himself wrote:
And in the meantime, while we re-wing WW-II,
and innocent skipper is in jeopardy.

Has anyone here put up even a small donation to his defense?

I've only found one reference to this online, and I don't have much
faith in the details given. I'd be prepared to donate something if I
could be sure the destination was legitimate.

Justin.

From Latitude 38, which has been reporting on this extensively:

"If you'd like to help a fellow sailor, you can donate to Dinius'
defense fund by sending checks made out to Bismarck Dinius, writing
“Bismarck Dinius Defense Fund” in the memo section, to Sierra Central
Credit Union, Attn: Brian Foxworthy, Branch Manager, 306 N. Sunrise
Ave., Roseville, CA 95661."

That's what I found. Unfortunately I don't think they'd be too happy
receiving a cheque in pounds Sterling. Could really do with some account
details to which money could be transferred... but, again, it's
verifying authenticity that's the toughie.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.