Proposed Discharge Permits
 

New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear this
could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the water
altogether.
On September 30th, the EPA is scheduled to begin court-ordered enforcement
of the Clean Water Act that controls all water discharged from boats during
its normal operation. Recreational boaters had been exempt from it for 34
years because it was meant for large, ocean-going ships.

Now, to comply with the law, the EPA has proposed permits for boaters; the
permits are free and automatic. The EPA says boaters will be required to
take "simple steps" to control water discharge from their boats, but didn't
give me any details about how to do that.

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"claus" wrote in message
. ..
New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the water
altogether.
On September 30th, the EPA is scheduled to begin court-ordered enforcement
of the Clean Water Act that controls all water discharged from boats
during its normal operation. Recreational boaters had been exempt from it
for 34 years because it was meant for large, ocean-going ships.

Now, to comply with the law, the EPA has proposed permits for boaters; the
permits are free and automatic. The EPA says boaters will be required to
take "simple steps" to control water discharge from their boats, but
didn't give me any details about how to do that.

For more info, click this link:
http://www.boatus.com/gov/documents/EPAPERMIT.pdf

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"claus" wrote in message
. ..
New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the water
altogether.
On September 30th, the EPA is scheduled to begin court-ordered enforcement
of the Clean Water Act that controls all water discharged from boats
during its normal operation. Recreational boaters had been exempt from it
for 34 years because it was meant for large, ocean-going ships.

Now, to comply with the law, the EPA has proposed permits for boaters; the
permits are free and automatic. The EPA says boaters will be required to
take "simple steps" to control water discharge from their boats, but
didn't give me any details about how to do that.




In some ways, this is similar to DHS' TWIC card requirements. If you've got
a CG license and use it, you're required by law to get a card for $132. They
can't/won't enforce it unless you're stopped while working and asked to
produce it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

On Jul 19, 5:21*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"claus" wrote in message

. ..

New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the water
altogether.
On September 30th, the EPA is scheduled to begin court-ordered enforcement
of the Clean Water Act that controls all water discharged from boats
during its normal operation. Recreational boaters had been exempt from it
for 34 years because it was meant for large, ocean-going ships.

Now, to comply with the law, the EPA has proposed permits for boaters; the
permits are free and automatic. The EPA says boaters will be required to
take "simple steps" to control water discharge from their boats, but
didn't give me any details about how to do that.

In some ways, this is similar to DHS' TWIC card requirements. If you've got
a CG license and use it, you're required by law to get a card for $132. They
can't/won't enforce it unless you're stopped while working and asked to
produce it.

--
"j" ganz

Ah yes, the wonderful transportation Worker ID Card..... Lets see to
get a MMD, Rate, or License you get to: have background check,
fingerprinted, photographed, letters of recomendation..

Now to get a TWIC AFTER you have the MMD, Rate, License. you will need
to: get ANOTHER background check, get finger printed AGAIN, and
ANOTHER foto.
Thank the Republicans and their public relations campaign that says NO
big govenment and NO taxes.... Im a Democrate and now days consider
myself a consevative!
Bob

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

On Jul 19, 4:30*pm, "claus" wrote:
New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear this
could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the water
altogether.
On September 30th, the EPA is scheduled to begin court-ordered enforcement
of the Clean Water Act that controls all water discharged from boats during
its normal operation. Recreational boaters had been exempt from it for 34
years because it was meant for large, ocean-going ships.

Now, to comply with the law, the EPA has proposed permits for boaters; the
permits are free and automatic. The EPA says boaters will be required to
take "simple steps" to control water discharge from their boats, but didn't
give me any details about how to do that.



Dear Santa Clause:

I read the link about the new EPA "MARPOL" regs....
Im already compliant. Its just good seamnaship. So what is the big
deal?
Bob

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

The EPA has some new regs about private craft discharging bilge water... any
bilge water vs. what MARPOL says. It's another boondoggle.

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Jul 19, 4:30 pm, "claus" wrote:
New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this
could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the water
altogether.
On September 30th, the EPA is scheduled to begin court-ordered enforcement
of the Clean Water Act that controls all water discharged from boats
during
its normal operation. Recreational boaters had been exempt from it for 34
years because it was meant for large, ocean-going ships.

Now, to comply with the law, the EPA has proposed permits for boaters; the
permits are free and automatic. The EPA says boaters will be required to
take "simple steps" to control water discharge from their boats, but
didn't
give me any details about how to do that.



Dear Santa Clause:

I read the link about the new EPA "MARPOL" regs....
Im already compliant. Its just good seamnaship. So what is the big
deal?
Bob




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

I just ran across another wrinkle in this situation today that requires some
local action. It's Real ID all over again. If your appropriate state
agency fails to send a letter to the EPA in Washington accepting the blanket
permit that is being issued and recongnizing Washington's authority then the
blanket permit does not apply to vessels in that state. I called Inland
Fisheries and Wildlife which handles boat registrations here in the land of
pointed firs and was told that they didn't know anything about it and would
transfer me over to the state DEP since it was clearly their problem. State
DEP knew nothing about it and said they would have to transfer me over to
Inland Fisheries and Wildlife since it was clearly in their jurisdiction. I
have a phone message and email into a legislative liason person whose name I
was given but no response yet.

If your state drops the ball on sending the necessary letter of tribute and
submission to Washington, all recreational vessels with that state
registration will be illegal simply for being in the water after September
30. You might want to ask what your state is doing.

--
Roger Long

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

I am personally getting tired of this government debacle. I will do
absolutely nothing about getting this permit even if turns out this
thing doesn't get over turned by Sept 30. I highly doubt the EPA will
be at any of the boat ramps I launch from to check if I have it or
not. if my own state can get the story straight who is responsible for
enforcement I doubt very much they will enforce it.

Our government at it's finest.

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Paul" wrote in message
...
I am personally getting tired of this government debacle. I will do
absolutely nothing about getting this permit even if turns out this
thing doesn't get over turned by Sept 30. I highly doubt the EPA will
be at any of the boat ramps I launch from to check if I have it or
not. if my own state can get the story straight who is responsible for
enforcement I doubt very much they will enforce it.

Our government at it's finest.


It will likely die a quiet death. It's unenforceable.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Paul" wrote in message
...
I am personally getting tired of this government debacle. I will do
absolutely nothing about getting this permit even if turns out this
thing doesn't get over turned by Sept 30. I highly doubt the EPA will
be at any of the boat ramps I launch from to check if I have it or
not. if my own state can get the story straight who is responsible for
enforcement I doubt very much they will enforce it.

Our government at it's finest.


It will likely die a quiet death. It's unenforceable.


It could be turned into a jobs program. Think of all those good paying jobs
for enforcement personnel and how good it would be for the economy.

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:32:09 -0700, "claus" said:

New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the
water
altogether.

BoatUS is playing it for all the PR it's worth, but anyone with modest
ability to read and think should realize that what the EPA has done by
providing "automatic" and free licenses is to abolish any requirement for
a
license for vessels under 79 feet.

Not necessarily so. One can just as well read it as these "automatic and
free licenses" still carry certain obligations. The question is can one
REJECT these licenses and remain unencumbered?

Or better yet does the license have standing if it is automatic and free?

Wilbur Hubbard

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in
easolutions:

Dear Santa Clause:

I read the link about the new EPA "MARPOL" regs....
Im already compliant. Its just good seamnaship. So what is the big
deal?


Can we still **** over the side of the floating docks if that lady that
always screams and reports us to the office isn't looking and we're not
****ing on someone's overpriced gelcoat? How about in our dingies hanging
it out to LEEWARD THIS TIME, PLEASE? When you gotta go you GOTTA GO...EPA
or no EPA!

I think she was trying to look at my willie and figured, rightly, I'd turn
around towards the screaming when I heard it.....I did, nearly peeing on
Lloyd who was also peeing to lee!

Why do men pee off a dock?

BECAUSE WE CAN!

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Roger Long" wrote in
:

If your state drops the ball on sending the necessary letter of
tribute and submission to Washington, all recreational vessels with
that state


The last time the damned Yankees pulled this kind of crap, the Citadel
Cadets in Ft Moultrie caused a helluva ruckus by firing the cannons on Ft
Sumter, where the Yankee Army was holed up at the entrance to the harbor.

We all know what happened then!

Someone needs to remind Washington Bureaucrats the Citadel Cadets can STILL
aim a big pounder pretty accurately and know how to use it!

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Thomas Flores" wrote in
:

It could be turned into a jobs program. Think of all those good paying
jobs for enforcement personnel and how good it would be for the
economy.




Do we have enough foreign government employees to cover all the boatramps??

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:32:09 -0700, "claus" said:

New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the
water
altogether.

BoatUS is playing it for all the PR it's worth, but anyone with modest
ability to read and think should realize that what the EPA has done by
providing "automatic" and free licenses is to abolish any requirement for
a
license for vessels under 79 feet.


It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what the
Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can enforce
them.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Capt. JG" wrote

It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what the
Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can enforce
them.


You've hit the nail on the head. That is exactly where we are headed. A
police state is one where anyone in a uniform can pull you in on a whim any
time they feel like it. That can't be done here because we have this thing
called a constitution. However, if you can get the public to accept all
sorts of laws on the "Oh, they'll never bother enforcing that." basis, then
the police can invoke them any time.

Boaters are gradually making some progress in the anchoring battle that has
been going on in Florida for years. What do you think the towns and police
will do when they figure out that they have these EPA permit regulations to
work with?

0400 There is the clomping of heavy boots on your deck. "It's been
reported that a water discharge was seen coming from your boat. We're here
to inspect your dish detergent and piping system. Ah, we see that you are
using Joy instead of the best available non-phosphate brand. You've been
anchored here two weeks. Your fine will be $384,000. Your EPA permit is now
revoked and we are towing your boat to the nearest shipyard to be removed
from the water."

Nobody is going to enforce this stuff because they give a **** about water
quality. It will be used like a lot of laws to pursue other agendas. It
won't happen often and it won't be a significant risk to any individual
boater, probably less than the hazards we routinely accept. But, doesn't it
disturb people here to see this nation which is creating so much death and
suffering in the name of "freedom" going down this path? This EPA stuff is
just one example.

--
Roger Long

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote

It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what
the Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can
enforce them.


You've hit the nail on the head. That is exactly where we are headed. A
police state is one where anyone in a uniform can pull you in on a whim
any time they feel like it. That can't be done here because we have this
thing called a constitution. However, if you can get the public to accept
all sorts of laws on the "Oh, they'll never bother enforcing that." basis,
then the police can invoke them any time.

Boaters are gradually making some progress in the anchoring battle that
has been going on in Florida for years. What do you think the towns and
police will do when they figure out that they have these EPA permit
regulations to work with?

0400 There is the clomping of heavy boots on your deck. "It's been
reported that a water discharge was seen coming from your boat. We're
here to inspect your dish detergent and piping system. Ah, we see that
you are using Joy instead of the best available non-phosphate brand.
You've been anchored here two weeks. Your fine will be $384,000. Your EPA
permit is now revoked and we are towing your boat to the nearest shipyard
to be removed from the water."

Nobody is going to enforce this stuff because they give a **** about water
quality. It will be used like a lot of laws to pursue other agendas. It
won't happen often and it won't be a significant risk to any individual
boater, probably less than the hazards we routinely accept. But, doesn't
it disturb people here to see this nation which is creating so much death
and suffering in the name of "freedom" going down this path? This EPA
stuff is just one example.

--
Roger Long



Law abiding citizens have nothing to fear. Can I see your free speech
permit?

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote

It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what
the Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can
enforce them.


You've hit the nail on the head. That is exactly where we are headed. A
police state is one where anyone in a uniform can pull you in on a whim
any time they feel like it. That can't be done here because we have this
thing called a constitution. However, if you can get the public to accept
all sorts of laws on the "Oh, they'll never bother enforcing that." basis,
then the police can invoke them any time.

Boaters are gradually making some progress in the anchoring battle that
has been going on in Florida for years. What do you think the towns and
police will do when they figure out that they have these EPA permit
regulations to work with?

0400 There is the clomping of heavy boots on your deck. "It's been
reported that a water discharge was seen coming from your boat. We're
here to inspect your dish detergent and piping system. Ah, we see that
you are using Joy instead of the best available non-phosphate brand.
You've been anchored here two weeks. Your fine will be $384,000. Your EPA
permit is now revoked and we are towing your boat to the nearest shipyard
to be removed from the water."

Nobody is going to enforce this stuff because they give a **** about water
quality. It will be used like a lot of laws to pursue other agendas. It
won't happen often and it won't be a significant risk to any individual
boater, probably less than the hazards we routinely accept. But, doesn't
it disturb people here to see this nation which is creating so much death
and suffering in the name of "freedom" going down this path? This EPA
stuff is just one example.

--
Roger Long

I think we're a ways off from this, but it's a slippery slope. People tend
to think, for example, that scum like terrorists should be hanged
immediately or held indefinitely without a trial (e.g., gitmo), but this is
the precipice of a very slippery slope that may start with good intentions
and ends with jackboots.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

In article lutions,
"Capt. JG" wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:32:09 -0700, "claus" said:

New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the
water
altogether.

BoatUS is playing it for all the PR it's worth, but anyone with modest
ability to read and think should realize that what the EPA has done by
providing "automatic" and free licenses is to abolish any requirement for
a
license for vessels under 79 feet.


It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what the
Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can enforce
them.

'Not knowing the laws is no excuse for violating them'

LOL

--
Molesworth

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Molesworth" wrote in message
...
In article lutions,
"Capt. JG" wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:32:09 -0700, "claus"
said:

New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters
fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the
water
altogether.

BoatUS is playing it for all the PR it's worth, but anyone with modest
ability to read and think should realize that what the EPA has done by
providing "automatic" and free licenses is to abolish any requirement
for
a
license for vessels under 79 feet.


It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what
the
Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can
enforce
them.

'Not knowing the laws is no excuse for violating them'

LOL

--
Molesworth


Almost funny, but not quite...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

http://www.sitnews.us/0708news/07220...ngvessels.html

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Paul" wrote in message
...
http://www.sitnews.us/0708news/07220...ngvessels.html


Well, I guess I don't have to save my nickels...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"Paul" wrote in message
...
http://www.sitnews.us/0708news/07220...fishingvessels.


GREAT NEWS!!!

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

"claus" wrote in message
. ..
New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the water
altogether.
On September 30th, the EPA is scheduled to begin court-ordered enforcement
of the Clean Water Act that controls all water discharged from boats
during its normal operation. Recreational boaters had been exempt from it
for 34 years because it was meant for large, ocean-going ships.

Now, to comply with the law, the EPA has proposed permits for boaters; the
permits are free and automatic. The EPA says boaters will be required to
take "simple steps" to control water discharge from their boats, but
didn't give me any details about how to do that.


Congress acts: Recreational boaters won't have to follow strict clean air
standards
By Jim Morris

Staff Writer

Tuesday, July 22, 2008

In a remarkable display of bipartisan support for recreational boating, both
the House and Senate today, July 22, passed S. 2766, "The Clean Boating Act
of 2008" that will permanently restore a long-standing exemption for
recreational boats from permitting requirements under the Clean Water Act.
The legislation now goes to the White House for the President's signature.

Congressional action was spawned by a U.S. District Court decision in
September 2006 under which an estimated 17 million recreational boats would
have fallen under Clean Water Act permit requirements effective Sept. 30,
2008.

The permit would have dictated maintenance and operation procedures and
potentially subjected boaters to citizen lawsuits as well as a penalty
system designed for industrial polluters.

"This is a fabulous victory for common sense and it just goes to show what
can be done when the boating public, the marine industry and its
representatives in Congress row together in a bipartisan way," said BoatU.S.
President Nancy Michelman.

BoatU.S. Government Affairs Director Margaret Podlich was quick to shower
praise on a boatload of legislators who did much of the heavy lifting
including Sens. Bill Nelson (D-FL) and Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and
Representatives Jim Oberstar (D-MN), Steve LaTourette (R-OH), Candice Miller
(R-MI) and Gene Taylor (D-MS).

A complete listing of all legislators involved will be available at
http://www.BoatUS.com/gov soon.

BoatU.S. has worked for more than a year with the National Marine
Manufacturers Association and a broad coalition of stakeholders to resolve
the problem before the permitting deadline.

"One of the real keys to success here was our collective ability to activate
the grassroots," said Podlich, noting that tens of thousands of letters and
e-mails were generated by boaters and anglers over the course of the past 12
months.

BoatU.S. is the nation's leading advocate for recreational boat owners with
over 650,000 members.

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:32:23 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what the
Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can enforce
them.


"Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and for the strict
adherence by fools" - Anon

Peter

Proposed Discharge Permits
 

Nobody is going to enforce this stuff because they give a **** about water
quality. It will be used like a lot of laws to pursue other agendas. It
won't happen often and it won't be a significant risk to any individual
boater, probably less than the hazards we routinely accept. But, doesn't
it disturb people here to see this nation which is creating so much death
and suffering in the name of "freedom" going down this path? This EPA
stuff is just one example.

--
Roger Long



Law abiding citizens have nothing to fear. Can I see your free speech
permit?


The USA is not the only country to have freedom of speech enshrined in
legislation. The 3 million people of the city state of Singapore also
have it.

There is one place where one can see it in action - Speaker's corner
in a public park. Any citizen can obtain a permit to speak on any
topic provided his written speech is submitted to authorities and
approval as to the content authorised beforehand.

A past leader of the opposition party was imprisoned for speaking
without a permit.

Peter.