What do the helmsman do wrong?
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1o6...eature=related

What do the helmsman do wrong?
 

On Jul 3, 8:47*am, "Kapt Krunch" wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1o6...eature=related

Lets start with the not so obvious

Look at the helm's sun glasses. They should be a yellow-amber color to
increase contrast. The dark lense he has simply darkens his view and
deminshes contrast. Along with his very stylish clothing choices he
screams, "I am more concerned with style and looking good than
function. Right there I would place that guy in with all the rest of
the fu fu wanna look good girly men. When my sole means of motor
transportaiton was a Norton motorcycle we had a saying, "if it dont go
crome it" That is what the helm has accomplised. You wanna be impotant
ya gotta look impotant.

2 cant tell by the video quality but look at the dark line on the
horrizon. appears to be a "squall line" or front conditions. What
comes along with that condition?

3 sailing with seas on the STB quarter.

4 speed 10.8+ knots

5 at least the main was reefed

6 notice the sea conditions were not bad. infact, I would rate the
Beaufort Sea State as: a rather nice day for sailing. that is, no
breaking seas.

7 notice the constant helm corrections. this suggests a rather
squrrley boat... given the condition. probably has a fin keel and a
huge hung rudder. both designed for nimble turning :)

8 the planets aligne: an expected, larger than normal wave shows up,
the boat is all ready rounding up because of all of the above (1-7),
got on top of the wave and caught the wind in the main that finished
the job the helm put together.

The sun glasses are an accurate predictor of this event...........

Bob

What do the helmsman do wrong?
 

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Jul 3, 8:47 am, "Kapt Krunch" wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1o6...eature=related

Lets start with the not so obvious

Look at the helm's sun glasses. They should be a yellow-amber color to
increase contrast. The dark lense he has simply darkens his view and
deminshes contrast. Along with his very stylish clothing choices he
screams, "I am more concerned with style and looking good than
function. Right there I would place that guy in with all the rest of
the fu fu wanna look good girly men. When my sole means of motor
transportaiton was a Norton motorcycle we had a saying, "if it dont go
crome it" That is what the helm has accomplised. You wanna be impotant
ya gotta look impotant.

2 cant tell by the video quality but look at the dark line on the
horrizon. appears to be a "squall line" or front conditions. What
comes along with that condition?

3 sailing with seas on the STB quarter.

4 speed 10.8+ knots

5 at least the main was reefed

6 notice the sea conditions were not bad. infact, I would rate the
Beaufort Sea State as: a rather nice day for sailing. that is, no
breaking seas.

7 notice the constant helm corrections. this suggests a rather
squrrley boat... given the condition. probably has a fin keel and a
huge hung rudder. both designed for nimble turning :)

8 the planets aligne: an expected, larger than normal wave shows up,
the boat is all ready rounding up because of all of the above (1-7),
got on top of the wave and caught the wind in the main that finished
the job the helm put together.

The sun glasses are an accurate predictor of this event...........

Bob


You are a genius!

What do the helmsman do wrong?
 

On Jul 3, 10:34*am, "Kapt Krunch" wrote:

Bob

You are a genius!

Thank you..... thank you very much.

Senario No.2

The weight in the boat is all forward: chain in bow, holding tank full
of ****, water tanks 1/2 full with lots of free surface etc.
When on top of the wave given the weight distribution its a fast round
up and beam to the sea.......... Eeeek !

Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections.
somthing aint right.
Bob

What do the helmsman do wrong?
 

"Kapt Krunch" wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1o6...eature=related


What the helmsman did wrong is he broached. From the direction of the waves
it appears he was broad reaching. Yet he never even bothered looking behind
to check for rogue or misdirected waves. Instead he was posing for the
camera trying to look cool. In other words imagining how great he was going
to look on video and not paying attention to the real job at hand. When one
particularly large wave hit him on the quarter it slewed the boat around.

He should have been paying attention to the waves approaching on the
quarter. All he would have to have done is steered so as to have the wave
approach directly from astern. Dummy!

Wilbur Hubbard

What do the helmsman do wrong?
 

"Bob" wrote in message
...
Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections.
somthing aint right.
Bob


What ain't right is your absurd assumptions about the constant helm
corrections. There is no modern, high performance sailboat with fin
keel/spade rudder combo that doesn't need constant helm corrections when
running with the seas on or abaft the quarter. It's the nature of the beast.
Duh!

If there is anything physically wrong with that boat it's the gear ratio of
the wheel and the wheel itself. It needs to be rotated way too far to effect
any sort of meaningful course change. That broach would not have happened
with a tiller-steered vessel. A helmsman sitting sideways in the boat
doesn't have his back to weather like that fool has and a tiller moves the
rudder a significant amount instantaneously with great feedback.

Now, this brings up the even greater folly of a pilot house where the
helmsman is even more isolated from the elements.

Get back to basics for safe and successful sailing. Haven't any of you
learned anything from the unnecessary loss of the "Red Cloud?"


Wilbur Hubbard

What do the helmsman do wrong?
 

On Jul 3, 3:14*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message

Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections.
somthing aint right.
Bob

What ain't right is your absurd assumptions about the constant helm
corrections. There is no modern, high performance sailboat with fin
keel/spade rudder combo that doesn't need constant helm corrections when
running with the seas on or abaft the quarter. It's the nature of the beast.
Duh!

Wilbur Hubbard

two comments Wilbur:
1, I agree the boat type is absurd and simply not a safe designe for
most people. still a helm should not have to drive a boat that much.
It an indacation somthin aint ballanced right. my boat handled a bit
that way too. but i had 300+ pounds of chain and a 45lb anchor in the
bow.......

2., I belive the correct tem is simply "quarter". No other language is
needed to give that area on a vessel meaning.
but your use may be a local dialect. I other words, locate the
"quarters" on a vessel.
But i got your idea. those kind of boats are dangerous in an amature's
hands.
bob

What do the helmsman do wrong?
 

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Jul 3, 3:14 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message

Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections.
somthing aint right.
Bob

What ain't right is your absurd assumptions about the constant helm
corrections. There is no modern, high performance sailboat with fin
keel/spade rudder combo that doesn't need constant helm corrections when
running with the seas on or abaft the quarter. It's the nature of the
beast.
Duh!

Wilbur Hubbard

\ two comments Wilbur:
\ 1, I agree the boat type is absurd and simply not a safe designe for
\ most people. still a helm should not have to drive a boat that much.
\ It an indacation somthin aint ballanced right. my boat handled a bit
\ that way too. but i had 300+ pounds of chain and a 45lb anchor in the
\ bow.......
\
\ 2., I belive the correct tem is simply "quarter". No other language is
\ needed to give that area on a vessel meaning.
\ but your use may be a local dialect. I other words, locate the
\ "quarters" on a vessel.
\ But i got your idea. those kind of boats are dangerous in an amature's
\ hands.
\ bob

If you're suggesting I should have written "on or abaft quarter" then you
need to study your nautical terminology for that is simply incorrect
terminology.

But, the boat may have been trimmed badly as in down by the bows. That would
make it more likely that the stern would slew around in quartering seas as
the bows dug in. But, form factor of these modern hulls with minimal
buoyancy in the bows (even without a shot or two of chain stored there) and
a huge beam astern make them a real handful broad reaching. The best thing
you can do to tame them is strike the mainsail completely and run a storm
jib on the forestay. But you still have to be on the ball steering the
damned things.

--
Gregory Hall

What do the helmsman do wrong?
 

"Gregory Hall" wrote in message
...

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Jul 3, 3:14 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message

Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections.
somthing aint right.
Bob

What ain't right is your absurd assumptions about the constant helm
corrections. There is no modern, high performance sailboat with fin
keel/spade rudder combo that doesn't need constant helm corrections when
running with the seas on or abaft the quarter. It's the nature of the
beast.
Duh!

Wilbur Hubbard

\ two comments Wilbur:
\ 1, I agree the boat type is absurd and simply not a safe designe for
\ most people. still a helm should not have to drive a boat that much.
\ It an indacation somthin aint ballanced right. my boat handled a bit
\ that way too. but i had 300+ pounds of chain and a 45lb anchor in the
\ bow.......
\
\ 2., I belive the correct tem is simply "quarter". No other language is
\ needed to give that area on a vessel meaning.
\ but your use may be a local dialect. I other words, locate the
\ "quarters" on a vessel.
\ But i got your idea. those kind of boats are dangerous in an amature's
\ hands.
\ bob

If you're suggesting I should have written "on or abaft quarter" then you
need to study your nautical terminology for that is simply incorrect
terminology.

But, the boat may have been trimmed badly as in down by the bows. That
would make it more likely that the stern would slew around in quartering
seas as the bows dug in. But, form factor of these modern hulls with
minimal buoyancy in the bows (even without a shot or two of chain stored
there) and a huge beam astern make them a real handful broad reaching. The
best thing you can do to tame them is strike the mainsail completely and
run a storm jib on the forestay. But you still have to be on the ball
steering the damned things.

--
Gregory Hall



Good job, Gregory! Keep it up and you will be able to fill in for me when I
decide to go cruising again in the near future. This group needs my
brilliance and guidance. If you can provide it so much the better.

Do me a favor, though, never let the cowardly skipper of the scuttled "Red
Cloud" forget his folly. Keep after him until he publicly admits his
weakness in the face of a small ration of maritime adversity. Make the
limp-wristed, little, panty-waisted wimp realize that which made him chicken
out is nothing compared to the ocean in her full fury. We wouldn't want him
to underestimate the power of Neptune's play a second time. He can't stand
Neptune's play imagine his fright should he be treated to Neptune's wrath!
Let's hope he doesn't go off half-cocked again. Thank you.

He mentioned he was loading up his boat for a week-end cruise. Leaving from
Miami where he must have procured a replacement for his wimpishly abandoned
"Red Cloud." Let's hope he survives the Gulf Stream. Please pray for him.

Wilbur Hubbard

What do the helmsman do wrong?
 

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:49:03 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Gregory Hall" wrote in message
...

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Jul 3, 3:14 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message

Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections.
somthing aint right.
Bob

What ain't right is your absurd assumptions about the constant helm
corrections. There is no modern, high performance sailboat with fin
keel/spade rudder combo that doesn't need constant helm corrections when
running with the seas on or abaft the quarter. It's the nature of the
beast.
Duh!

Wilbur Hubbard

\ two comments Wilbur:
\ 1, I agree the boat type is absurd and simply not a safe designe for
\ most people. still a helm should not have to drive a boat that much.
\ It an indacation somthin aint ballanced right. my boat handled a bit
\ that way too. but i had 300+ pounds of chain and a 45lb anchor in the
\ bow.......
\
\ 2., I belive the correct tem is simply "quarter". No other language is
\ needed to give that area on a vessel meaning.
\ but your use may be a local dialect. I other words, locate the
\ "quarters" on a vessel.
\ But i got your idea. those kind of boats are dangerous in an amature's
\ hands.
\ bob

If you're suggesting I should have written "on or abaft quarter" then you
need to study your nautical terminology for that is simply incorrect
terminology.

But, the boat may have been trimmed badly as in down by the bows. That
would make it more likely that the stern would slew around in quartering
seas as the bows dug in. But, form factor of these modern hulls with
minimal buoyancy in the bows (even without a shot or two of chain stored
there) and a huge beam astern make them a real handful broad reaching. The
best thing you can do to tame them is strike the mainsail completely and
run a storm jib on the forestay. But you still have to be on the ball
steering the damned things.

--
Gregory Hall



Good job, Gregory! Keep it up and you will be able to fill in for me when I
decide to go cruising again in the near future. This group needs my
brilliance and guidance. If you can provide it so much the better.

Do me a favor, though, never let the cowardly skipper of the scuttled "Red
Cloud" forget his folly. Keep after him until he publicly admits his
weakness in the face of a small ration of maritime adversity. Make the
limp-wristed, little, panty-waisted wimp realize that which made him chicken
out is nothing compared to the ocean in her full fury. We wouldn't want him
to underestimate the power of Neptune's play a second time. He can't stand
Neptune's play imagine his fright should he be treated to Neptune's wrath!
Let's hope he doesn't go off half-cocked again. Thank you.

He mentioned he was loading up his boat for a week-end cruise. Leaving from
Miami where he must have procured a replacement for his wimpishly abandoned
"Red Cloud." Let's hope he survives the Gulf Stream. Please pray for him.

Wilbur Hubbard


Capt. Neil, Wilbur Hubbard and now Gregory Hall. Will the supply of
Sock Puppets never end?



A fool who knows his foolishness is wise
at least to that extent, but a fool who
thinks himself wise is a fool indeed.