|
What do the helmsman do wrong?
|
What do the helmsman do wrong?
On Jul 3, 8:47*am, "Kapt Krunch" wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1o6...eature=related Lets start with the not so obvious Look at the helm's sun glasses. They should be a yellow-amber color to increase contrast. The dark lense he has simply darkens his view and deminshes contrast. Along with his very stylish clothing choices he screams, "I am more concerned with style and looking good than function. Right there I would place that guy in with all the rest of the fu fu wanna look good girly men. When my sole means of motor transportaiton was a Norton motorcycle we had a saying, "if it dont go crome it" That is what the helm has accomplised. You wanna be impotant ya gotta look impotant. 2 cant tell by the video quality but look at the dark line on the horrizon. appears to be a "squall line" or front conditions. What comes along with that condition? 3 sailing with seas on the STB quarter. 4 speed 10.8+ knots 5 at least the main was reefed 6 notice the sea conditions were not bad. infact, I would rate the Beaufort Sea State as: a rather nice day for sailing. that is, no breaking seas. 7 notice the constant helm corrections. this suggests a rather squrrley boat... given the condition. probably has a fin keel and a huge hung rudder. both designed for nimble turning :) 8 the planets aligne: an expected, larger than normal wave shows up, the boat is all ready rounding up because of all of the above (1-7), got on top of the wave and caught the wind in the main that finished the job the helm put together. The sun glasses are an accurate predictor of this event........... Bob |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
"Bob" wrote in message ... On Jul 3, 8:47 am, "Kapt Krunch" wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1o6...eature=related Lets start with the not so obvious Look at the helm's sun glasses. They should be a yellow-amber color to increase contrast. The dark lense he has simply darkens his view and deminshes contrast. Along with his very stylish clothing choices he screams, "I am more concerned with style and looking good than function. Right there I would place that guy in with all the rest of the fu fu wanna look good girly men. When my sole means of motor transportaiton was a Norton motorcycle we had a saying, "if it dont go crome it" That is what the helm has accomplised. You wanna be impotant ya gotta look impotant. 2 cant tell by the video quality but look at the dark line on the horrizon. appears to be a "squall line" or front conditions. What comes along with that condition? 3 sailing with seas on the STB quarter. 4 speed 10.8+ knots 5 at least the main was reefed 6 notice the sea conditions were not bad. infact, I would rate the Beaufort Sea State as: a rather nice day for sailing. that is, no breaking seas. 7 notice the constant helm corrections. this suggests a rather squrrley boat... given the condition. probably has a fin keel and a huge hung rudder. both designed for nimble turning :) 8 the planets aligne: an expected, larger than normal wave shows up, the boat is all ready rounding up because of all of the above (1-7), got on top of the wave and caught the wind in the main that finished the job the helm put together. The sun glasses are an accurate predictor of this event........... Bob You are a genius! |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
On Jul 3, 10:34*am, "Kapt Krunch" wrote:
Bob You are a genius! Thank you..... thank you very much. Senario No.2 The weight in the boat is all forward: chain in bow, holding tank full of ****, water tanks 1/2 full with lots of free surface etc. When on top of the wave given the weight distribution its a fast round up and beam to the sea.......... Eeeek ! Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections. somthing aint right. Bob |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
"Kapt Krunch" wrote in message ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1o6...eature=related What the helmsman did wrong is he broached. From the direction of the waves it appears he was broad reaching. Yet he never even bothered looking behind to check for rogue or misdirected waves. Instead he was posing for the camera trying to look cool. In other words imagining how great he was going to look on video and not paying attention to the real job at hand. When one particularly large wave hit him on the quarter it slewed the boat around. He should have been paying attention to the waves approaching on the quarter. All he would have to have done is steered so as to have the wave approach directly from astern. Dummy! Wilbur Hubbard |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
"Bob" wrote in message ... Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections. somthing aint right. Bob What ain't right is your absurd assumptions about the constant helm corrections. There is no modern, high performance sailboat with fin keel/spade rudder combo that doesn't need constant helm corrections when running with the seas on or abaft the quarter. It's the nature of the beast. Duh! If there is anything physically wrong with that boat it's the gear ratio of the wheel and the wheel itself. It needs to be rotated way too far to effect any sort of meaningful course change. That broach would not have happened with a tiller-steered vessel. A helmsman sitting sideways in the boat doesn't have his back to weather like that fool has and a tiller moves the rudder a significant amount instantaneously with great feedback. Now, this brings up the even greater folly of a pilot house where the helmsman is even more isolated from the elements. Get back to basics for safe and successful sailing. Haven't any of you learned anything from the unnecessary loss of the "Red Cloud?" Wilbur Hubbard |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
On Jul 3, 3:14*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Bob" wrote in message Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections. somthing aint right. Bob What ain't right is your absurd assumptions about the constant helm corrections. There is no modern, high performance sailboat with fin keel/spade rudder combo that doesn't need constant helm corrections when running with the seas on or abaft the quarter. It's the nature of the beast. Duh! Wilbur Hubbard two comments Wilbur: 1, I agree the boat type is absurd and simply not a safe designe for most people. still a helm should not have to drive a boat that much. It an indacation somthin aint ballanced right. my boat handled a bit that way too. but i had 300+ pounds of chain and a 45lb anchor in the bow....... 2., I belive the correct tem is simply "quarter". No other language is needed to give that area on a vessel meaning. but your use may be a local dialect. I other words, locate the "quarters" on a vessel. But i got your idea. those kind of boats are dangerous in an amature's hands. bob |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
"Bob" wrote in message ... On Jul 3, 3:14 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bob" wrote in message Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections. somthing aint right. Bob What ain't right is your absurd assumptions about the constant helm corrections. There is no modern, high performance sailboat with fin keel/spade rudder combo that doesn't need constant helm corrections when running with the seas on or abaft the quarter. It's the nature of the beast. Duh! Wilbur Hubbard \ two comments Wilbur: \ 1, I agree the boat type is absurd and simply not a safe designe for \ most people. still a helm should not have to drive a boat that much. \ It an indacation somthin aint ballanced right. my boat handled a bit \ that way too. but i had 300+ pounds of chain and a 45lb anchor in the \ bow....... \ \ 2., I belive the correct tem is simply "quarter". No other language is \ needed to give that area on a vessel meaning. \ but your use may be a local dialect. I other words, locate the \ "quarters" on a vessel. \ But i got your idea. those kind of boats are dangerous in an amature's \ hands. \ bob If you're suggesting I should have written "on or abaft quarter" then you need to study your nautical terminology for that is simply incorrect terminology. But, the boat may have been trimmed badly as in down by the bows. That would make it more likely that the stern would slew around in quartering seas as the bows dug in. But, form factor of these modern hulls with minimal buoyancy in the bows (even without a shot or two of chain stored there) and a huge beam astern make them a real handful broad reaching. The best thing you can do to tame them is strike the mainsail completely and run a storm jib on the forestay. But you still have to be on the ball steering the damned things. -- Gregory Hall |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
"Gregory Hall" wrote in message ... "Bob" wrote in message ... On Jul 3, 3:14 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bob" wrote in message Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections. somthing aint right. Bob What ain't right is your absurd assumptions about the constant helm corrections. There is no modern, high performance sailboat with fin keel/spade rudder combo that doesn't need constant helm corrections when running with the seas on or abaft the quarter. It's the nature of the beast. Duh! Wilbur Hubbard \ two comments Wilbur: \ 1, I agree the boat type is absurd and simply not a safe designe for \ most people. still a helm should not have to drive a boat that much. \ It an indacation somthin aint ballanced right. my boat handled a bit \ that way too. but i had 300+ pounds of chain and a 45lb anchor in the \ bow....... \ \ 2., I belive the correct tem is simply "quarter". No other language is \ needed to give that area on a vessel meaning. \ but your use may be a local dialect. I other words, locate the \ "quarters" on a vessel. \ But i got your idea. those kind of boats are dangerous in an amature's \ hands. \ bob If you're suggesting I should have written "on or abaft quarter" then you need to study your nautical terminology for that is simply incorrect terminology. But, the boat may have been trimmed badly as in down by the bows. That would make it more likely that the stern would slew around in quartering seas as the bows dug in. But, form factor of these modern hulls with minimal buoyancy in the bows (even without a shot or two of chain stored there) and a huge beam astern make them a real handful broad reaching. The best thing you can do to tame them is strike the mainsail completely and run a storm jib on the forestay. But you still have to be on the ball steering the damned things. -- Gregory Hall Good job, Gregory! Keep it up and you will be able to fill in for me when I decide to go cruising again in the near future. This group needs my brilliance and guidance. If you can provide it so much the better. Do me a favor, though, never let the cowardly skipper of the scuttled "Red Cloud" forget his folly. Keep after him until he publicly admits his weakness in the face of a small ration of maritime adversity. Make the limp-wristed, little, panty-waisted wimp realize that which made him chicken out is nothing compared to the ocean in her full fury. We wouldn't want him to underestimate the power of Neptune's play a second time. He can't stand Neptune's play imagine his fright should he be treated to Neptune's wrath! Let's hope he doesn't go off half-cocked again. Thank you. He mentioned he was loading up his boat for a week-end cruise. Leaving from Miami where he must have procured a replacement for his wimpishly abandoned "Red Cloud." Let's hope he survives the Gulf Stream. Please pray for him. Wilbur Hubbard |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:49:03 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Gregory Hall" wrote in message ... "Bob" wrote in message ... On Jul 3, 3:14 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Bob" wrote in message Either way, a dead give-a-way is the constant helm corrections. somthing aint right. Bob What ain't right is your absurd assumptions about the constant helm corrections. There is no modern, high performance sailboat with fin keel/spade rudder combo that doesn't need constant helm corrections when running with the seas on or abaft the quarter. It's the nature of the beast. Duh! Wilbur Hubbard \ two comments Wilbur: \ 1, I agree the boat type is absurd and simply not a safe designe for \ most people. still a helm should not have to drive a boat that much. \ It an indacation somthin aint ballanced right. my boat handled a bit \ that way too. but i had 300+ pounds of chain and a 45lb anchor in the \ bow....... \ \ 2., I belive the correct tem is simply "quarter". No other language is \ needed to give that area on a vessel meaning. \ but your use may be a local dialect. I other words, locate the \ "quarters" on a vessel. \ But i got your idea. those kind of boats are dangerous in an amature's \ hands. \ bob If you're suggesting I should have written "on or abaft quarter" then you need to study your nautical terminology for that is simply incorrect terminology. But, the boat may have been trimmed badly as in down by the bows. That would make it more likely that the stern would slew around in quartering seas as the bows dug in. But, form factor of these modern hulls with minimal buoyancy in the bows (even without a shot or two of chain stored there) and a huge beam astern make them a real handful broad reaching. The best thing you can do to tame them is strike the mainsail completely and run a storm jib on the forestay. But you still have to be on the ball steering the damned things. -- Gregory Hall Good job, Gregory! Keep it up and you will be able to fill in for me when I decide to go cruising again in the near future. This group needs my brilliance and guidance. If you can provide it so much the better. Do me a favor, though, never let the cowardly skipper of the scuttled "Red Cloud" forget his folly. Keep after him until he publicly admits his weakness in the face of a small ration of maritime adversity. Make the limp-wristed, little, panty-waisted wimp realize that which made him chicken out is nothing compared to the ocean in her full fury. We wouldn't want him to underestimate the power of Neptune's play a second time. He can't stand Neptune's play imagine his fright should he be treated to Neptune's wrath! Let's hope he doesn't go off half-cocked again. Thank you. He mentioned he was loading up his boat for a week-end cruise. Leaving from Miami where he must have procured a replacement for his wimpishly abandoned "Red Cloud." Let's hope he survives the Gulf Stream. Please pray for him. Wilbur Hubbard Capt. Neil, Wilbur Hubbard and now Gregory Hall. Will the supply of Sock Puppets never end? A fool who knows his foolishness is wise at least to that extent, but a fool who thinks himself wise is a fool indeed. |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
On 2008-07-03 12:47:10 -0400, "Kapt Krunch" said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1o6...eature=related Gawd! He was looking *down* at the instruments, sailing *them* not the boat! -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 04:41:48 GMT, in message
2008070800414850073-jerelull@maccom Jere Lull wrote: On 2008-07-03 12:47:10 -0400, "Kapt Krunch" said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1o6...eature=related Gawd! He was looking *down* at the instruments, sailing *them* not the boat! I like my instruments and find them useful in making the boat perform. I don't know what he was looking at, but we saw that most of the instruments were mounted forward where he could see them without losing the larger forward view. Still, he needed to be looking over his shoulder and setting the rudder before it loaded up. That late response did no good and probably ate some life out of the rudder bearings. I also wonder why the main trimmer wasn't dumping the main when rudder control was lost. Maybe s/he was the one with the camera. The amount of steering action didn't look odd to me, even for a fairly conservative boat with a keel aspect ratio of 1. It might have been easier to steer with less lift surface up high and more weight at the bottom. Other than that, it looked like a great downhill ride, although the boat looked like it should be surfing faster than 10 in those conditions. Mind you, my perspective is biased towards going fast and spinning out now and then. Ryk |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
On Jul 3, 5:49*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Gregory Hall" wrote in message "Bob" wrote in message Good job, Gregory! Keep it up and you will be able to fill in for me when I Wilbur Hubbard Dear Gregory and Willbur: there is more than one way to get a cat to give up their skin...... Please read the following: __________________________________________________ _________________ Fastnet Disaster of 1979 Interview with Bill Burrows, Chief Engineer Royal Navy Lifeboat Institution. Retrieved three disabled sailboats in a 21 hour rescue during the fatal 1979 Fastnet Storm. “… Look, you get 300 Yachats in poor weather and you’re going to have some trouble, almost certainly. But the majority of the trouble was hysteria created by the situation and by inexperienced crews. And that it was. They were blaming rudders and such, but none of those rudders would have snapped if they had put drogues out and storm jibs and run before the weather. They were under bare poles, most of them, and they were getting up on the seas. And the seas were about 45 feet. Not what we around here call big. (Bob: I love that statment!) They got up on these seas and they were running. When the boats were starting to broach, what the helmsmen were doing was hauling on the rudders to stop them from broaching. They were putting too much bloody strain on the rudders, and they had to go. Yes, I know they were racing sailors, not cruising men, but that’s no excuse. We went out that night and we passed a little old hooker sort of thing with a family of kids aboard and they were going away to Ireland with no trouble at all….” (The Yacht, April 1987) __________________________________________________ _______________________ Read an learn from the more wise. Bob |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
Hey Bob. My favorite boating quote of all time. I even have it on my web
site. Thanks for posting it. -- Roger Long |
What do the helmsman do wrong?
"Bob" wrote in message ... __________________________________________________ _________________ Fastnet Disaster of 1979 Interview with Bill Burrows, Chief Engineer Royal Navy Lifeboat Institution. Retrieved three disabled sailboats in a 21 hour rescue during the fatal 1979 Fastnet Storm. “… Look, you get 300 Yachats in poor weather and you’re going to have some trouble, almost certainly. But the majority of the trouble was hysteria created by the situation and by inexperienced crews. And that it was. They were blaming rudders and such, but none of those rudders would have snapped if they had put drogues out and storm jibs and run before the weather. They were under bare poles, most of them, and they were getting up on the seas. And the seas were about 45 feet. Not what we around here call big. (Bob: I love that statment!) They got up on these seas and they were running. When the boats were starting to broach, what the helmsmen were doing was hauling on the rudders to stop them from broaching. They were putting too much bloody strain on the rudders, and they had to go. Yes, I know they were racing sailors, not cruising men, but that’s no excuse. We went out that night and we passed a little old hooker sort of thing with a family of kids aboard and they were going away to Ireland with no trouble at all….” (The Yacht, April 1987) __________________________________________________ _______________________ Read an learn from the more wise. Bob Bob, I am not arguing with any of that but just want to make it clear that the RNLI has nothing to do with the Royal Navy. The RNLI is entirely funded by voluntary collections in pubs and fundraising functions held all over UK and by legacies from people who know what fine work they do. They get no money from the Government at all. All the crews are volunteers, selected by those with whom they will jointly risk their lives at short notice anytime. When not at sea they hold down a range of ordinary jobs ashore, not all water based.. They just have to live near enough to the quay to be afloat within minutes of being called, formerly by maroons, now usually cellphones. The only one who gets paid anything is the mechanic, who has to ensure the boat is constantly ready for service. Their primary task is to save lives but they almost never have claimed salvage even when they have saved a vessel as well as its crew, from disaster. If someone is in trouble they will go out whatever the weather and thanks to the generosity of the British public their boats are state-of- the art and lack nothing that will help them do their work. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:56 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com