On 2008-06-24 13:12:11 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

You are not "lending" when you buy (notice the word buy!) bonds or by
shares of stock. Lending is to hand over money to a client and then
expect to have it be paid back over a period of time with interest.

Bonds or CDs are simply giving money to an entity in receipt for a
*promise* from them to pay you that value plus a bit some time in the
future.

Whether you equate that giving to 'lending' or 'buying', all you have
in return is a promise. At most, it's a piece of paper with intrinsic
value of $0.000007.

The higher the risk of your not getting the full value back, the more
they promise to give you back.

TANSTAAFL!

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:48:54 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

If you owned a well-found, blue water sailboat with small four-stroke
outboard engine

That's an oxymoron. There are *no* well-found blue water sailboats
with outboard engines.

On 2008-06-24 09:17:58 -0400, Tim Shavinsky said:

Now I have a few more questions about sailboat. From what I've seen the
smallest I would go is about 27 feet, the largest about 32 feet. What
boats would you guys recommend that I look at? It would be me and my
wife aboard, we have no physical handicaps, I'm 6 ft tall. I want a
solid, reliably built boat that is simple and easy to handle.

I'd walk the docks and yards and "try on" every boat you can find.

First thing we do is climb into the permanent berth(s), particularly at
your size. I'm 5'10" and Pat is petite, but easily 70% of the small
(and medium) boats we see fail that simple test. Yes, a settee may be
comfortable and a great size, but making it up and breaking it down
gets old fast.

After that, inspect the rest of the living arrangements, the galley,
the head, stowage, cockpit. Lastly, worry about the cleanliness,
upgrades, and such. Expect the electronics to be toast, or nearly.
Performance, handling, configuration and that sort of thing might
separate two otherwise-equal boats, but are of little consequence
long-term. My one exception to that is draft if you're intending to
cruise skinny water like the Chesapeake or Bahamas.

Learn a bit about surveying in general and find out what to look for,
what to avoid, what "good bones" are. Pascoe's
http://yachtsurvey.com/ is a good start.

When we were looking, anything below 33' was heavily discounted because
few wanted the multitude that existed. In this market, you might get
some deals in larger boats, but I suspect 35' will be the break-point.
Quality "unknown" boats are surprisingly cheap, but you gotta do your
homework on the net.

Now might be a good time to look at the charter fleets. The charter
companies get boats that are simple for the charterers and cost the
companies less to maintain, and I suspect some fleets are hurting.

Also what is the downside to living on a mooring other than the
obvious? Where are the best places to do this in the US?

A mooring is only slightly more secure than anchoring out, with a lot
of very close neighbors in a harbor that can be busy. Rock and roll!

We used to moor the boat for our mostly weekending lifestyle, but now
spend the bucks for a slip because of the many conveniences it gives,
though we hardly ever stay at the dock overnight. Wouldn't moor as a
live-aboard.

From what I've heard, and from our preferences, we'd rank best cruising
grounds in the US roughly: Chesapeake, Long Island Sound, Maine, North
Carolina Inner Banks.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-06-24 12:56:04 -0400, "Roger Long" said:

If you are downgrading from the trawler you describe, you can probably
buy a higher quality and more expensive boat but money in the bank is
freedom.

Yup! A small boat and a bag of cash will beat one tied to the bank every time.

I like the E32's characteristics so much that there are few 32 - 34
foot boats I would trade her for just to get higher quality and better
reputation.

Similar for us, except that exactly one 34' boat that we've boarded had
improved livability, but it's quality sucked. Other than that, the
boats that were a significant upgrade were at least 37', and
significant money.

We have preferred to accumulate the cash instead of being tied to the bankers.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-06-24 15:48:14 -0400, "Roger Long" said:

"Vic Smith" wrote

Still finding them butts, eh?

No, they must have vacuumed pretty well

It's the almost total lack of any true 90 degree angles in the
otherwise nicely fitted cabin joinerwork and stuff like that.

Oh gawd, there ain't more than a dozen 90-degree angles on Xan. Should
have seen me measure and remeasure both sides of the bulkheads I was
replacing. I couldn't believe the hull could flare that much in 3/4".

I believe most of the non-90 is because they needed to have the flair
to get the molded parts out of the molds. I don't believe any of the
vertical panels other than the main bulkhead are actually square to the
sole, though the difference is subtle.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-06-24 17:25:07 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

A man does not *convince* the wife. A man instructs his wife.

Wilbur, will you get it in your head that some don't WANT to single-hand?

And getting rid of a wife and/or maintaining her separately will
DEFINITELY destroy his finances.

Other than that, a good post with mostly good, solid points.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:52:15 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Pretty good troll over all Wilbur/Neal/Doug/Tim but you blew it when
you took your own hook line and sinker.

Try harder Wilbur, this one was patheticly transparent

It doesn't seem to matter as long as he has plenty of people (of his
own invention) to talk to.

Pathetic.

Do you think the OP was Neal? If so, he finally snookered me.

--
Roger Long

On Jun 25, 9:46*am, "Roger Long" wrote:
Do you think the OP was Neal? *If so, he finally snookered me.

--
Roger Long

No doubt. It is one of his classics to justify his meager existance on
a small little boat welded to a chain attached to an old chevy engine
block.

The guy makes Sybil look perfectly normal.

Fred

wrote in message
...
On Jun 25, 9:46 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
Do you think the OP was Neal? If so, he finally snookered me.

--
Roger Long

+No doubt. It is one of his classics to justify his meager existance on
+a small little boat welded to a chain attached to an old chevy engine
+block.
+
+The guy makes Sybil look perfectly normal.
+
+Fred


FYI, Neal is no longer on his boat. Sad, but true. At least then, he had a
some claim as a "liveaboard."

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com